The Classical Music Guide Forums

Mahler

The SA was marginalized because of a power struggle, but it was not disbanded. True, the SS members came from the elite class, but to say didn't have a criminal character is disingenous. Both the SA and the SS were connected with Kristallnacht violence in 1938. I agree that "disbanded" was too extr...

Mahler

Perhaps a good deal of the criminal element enrolled in the nazi party and became it's standard bearers. Perhaps, but no. In spite of how it is presented in today's media, the NSDAP was a party like many others. Over the years of their rule, joining them became a necessity for those who were going ...

Mahler

Obviously - and this is confirmed by other authors - no thanks to any compassion of the Romanian government. Antonescu merely used "his" Jews as a way to befriend the allied forces, once it became obvious that Germany was losing the war: Further cruelties towards Jews would only have bound Romania t...

Mahler

[Romania] also refused to cooperate with the Nazis where its Jews were concerned. Let me answer this by quoting German historian Dieter Pohl . Loosely translated, Pohl has this to say about Romania: Second only to the German government, the Romanian government is most responsible for extensive mass...

Mahler

The Nazis, on the other hand, killed children on an industrial scale. They even had a word for it--Kinderaktion--and sometimes rounded up only children, with the purpose of immediately killing them. What is your source on this? You make it sound like they sorted out children out of viciousness, whi...

Mahler

The collaborators were not the key to the NAZI looting. Perhaps you can see the new documentary, "The Rape of Europa," which shows with great clarity that looting art from both Jews and the museums of occupied countries was a central part of the NAZI ideology. We are talking about different things ...

Mahler

The looting was carried out as a central part of NAZI policy and many involved were non-German collaborators . ... which means they were even less connected with Germany's National Socialist Party, whose members and followers were by definition the only ones who deserved the "Nazi" label. Way to su...

Mahler

On a side note: I am as always amused by the term "the Nazis". I cannot believe this has survived as a synonym for German people of those days (even historians use it!). Why don't we speak of American people as "Doms" and "Reps", depending on which party has the upper hand in the United States? It w...

Mahler

The Bruckner Seventh is a good choice, but the general consensus is that his Fourth is the most easily assessible. Speaking of entire symphonies, it may actually be the Fourth. Still, I consider the first two movements of the Seventh the best recommendation for a Brahms fan who is looking to expand...

Mahler

I prefer something with some power to it, not something that will put me to sleep, something strong and aggressive. I recommend Felix Mendelssohn Bartholdy's First Piano Concerto . There is a lot of fire to it, and the whole piece only takes about 20 minutes, which should serve as a good introducti...

Mahler

Most of my friends listen to modern rock, classic rock, progressive rock, I dont even know what most of those things I just listed are. However, once you get someone to sit down and listen to classical music for 45 minutes to an hour, they are usually captivated. I am glad you have had some success...

Mahler

I certainly hope you did not do that on my account Not as such. Of course, our conversation rekindled my interest in Schubert, but in the end it was my own decision. It is not that I regret it either; Schubert's symphonies are really well-composed and well-structured, and when listening to them chr...

Mahler

I have just spent the last hour listening to Schubert 's first two symphonies, and now I am truly exhausted. Though it was a total of eight movements, I felt as if I were fighting through one endless scherzo. I probably should not have played the Second Symphony right after the First, but in the end...

Mahler

I think it might be a mood thing. Brahms was not a composer of merry tunes, and I suspect that he himself was not completely happy with that - his envy of some of the light works written by Johann Strauß is well-documented. Brahms' music often seems sad, dramatic, ponderous and depressive, and I per...

Mahler

anyway we are going round in circles, we have differing opinions, let's leave it at that... This has never been a question. I respected your opinion from the beginning; I am merely interested in the underlying reasons, considering Brahms' enormous polularity. I guess you are just not a Brahms' pers...

Mahler

I meant that he was following a course that already pre-existed, I much prefer Schubert and I think by saying 'nothing new' I guess I am reacting to all the people who skip Schubert and jump to Brahms Seems like this is about Schubert rather than Brahms then, is it not? Though Brahms is hardly the ...

Mahler

Rest assured that our opinions can co-exist peacefully. I just want to make sure that in your language, "nothing new" is not equivalent to "nothing interesting". I wonder what Brahms is to you, then: an extension of Schumann, Schubert or even of Beethoven himself?

Mahler

I just find his music to be average considering his timescale, sure the concertos are great, but nothing new To say that Brahms did not do anything new is a judgement I cannot agree with. I am by no means an expert, but to me, Brahms' music possesses a combination of conciseness and expression I ha...

Mahler

can't get over the feeling that he is seriously overrated, especially in his Chamber Music output... I sometimes hear this as a general assessment (present company excluded): "I don't like Brahms' style; that's why he's overrated". Of course, Brahms had his own style; I doubt anybody else could hav...

Mahler

Same here. I single out one particular movement and repeatedly listen to the various interpretations thereof (although some versions are hard to compare due to the huge difference in sound quality that comes with the years). Unfortunately, my record collection is not yet big enough to do a lot of co...

Mahler

To make this a Brahms posts sandwich: Brahms' Second Symphony

- Pierre Monteux, San Francisco Symphony Orchestra, 1945
- Wilhelm Furtwängler, Wiener Philharmoniker, 1945
- Günter Wand, NDR-Sinfonieorchester, 1983
- Wolfgang Sawallisch, London Philharmonic Orchestra, 1990

Mahler

I am once again exploring several recordings of Brahms' First Symphony : - Philadelphia Orchestra, Leopold Stokowski, 1936 - NBC Symphony Orchestra, Arturo Toscanini, 1941 - Wiener Philharmoniker, Karl Böhm, 1944 - NDR-Sinfonieorchester, Günter Wand, 1982 - London Philharmonic Orchestra, Wolfgang Sa...

Mahler

Most classical music in movies and TV is not presented as classical music. It's presented as background music. Unless something takes off [...] people are going to think it's just part of the wall paper - they would never have occasion to find out how it was different from the rest of the score. I ...

Mahler

I don't know where you live, but I'll bet there's little else but rock and talk on the radio stations where you live. You might be right but I would not know; I do not usually listen to the radio. Still, I have a deep and lasting interest in classical music. How come? It is because I caught it some...

Mahler

2) Lack of exposure I do not think so. Classical music is not hard to find for those who seek it. Most people know about it; they just are not interested. It all comes down to an inner urge only classical music can satisfy, but this urge is no longer common; it has been replaced by a lust for distr...

Mahler

Any thoughts on why this is? I blame it on our society which considers banality a virtue and preaches simplicity above everything else. Things have to be fast, easy, shallow and short-lived in order to attract the masses who consume and dump new developments as quickly as they came. The desire to l...

Mahler

Bruckner Symphony No. 7 (Rattle, Birmingham Symphony Orchestra).

There is not another piece of music I find as absorbing as the first two movements of Bruckner's 7th.

Mahler

Let us consider the viewpoint of one person, though I have not had the privilege of sounding his thoughts out directly. What would Beethoven have thought? I think all of us should pay attention to the opinion of the great ones, as long as we do not try to base a ranking on them. So many an artist i...

Mahler

And yet, there really are instances where it is a matter of quality, don't you think? [...] would it really be just a matter of "personal likes or dislikes" to consider Beethoven's First Symphony inferior to his (say) Fifth ? It depends on the criteria that need to be met, and they vary from person...

Mahler

Pollini and Brendel are very different. Brendel is more studied; Pollini more rhythmic. Pollini's Waldstein was long my favourite of all Beethoven sonata recordings though that may change as I have so much more to listen to. This conversation is much to our previous point. If you play the Brendel 4...

Mahler

although I like Brahms's symphonies [...] they are clearly inferior to many of Mozart, Beethoven, Sibelius, Prokofiev, and even some of a few other composers. :wink: Please note that the following is no reproach towards you: There is an opinion I hear from time to time, claiming that Brahms' sympho...

Mahler

Goodness gracious. My apologies, Mahler. I read your handle and saw "Ninth" and "Abbado, Wiener Philharmoniker" and immediately thought Abbado's first Mahler's Ninth recording on DG with the Vienna Philharmonic -- DUH! :roll: No problem at all. Reading your original reply a second time, I guess I s...

Mahler

Jack Kelso wrote:Brahms 4 symphonic masterpieces are in no way inferior to any symphony that came before them.

... or after. I second that: Brahms' symphonies are second to none. "Different" does not equal "worse".

Mahler

I forgot to mention that I now own this , the interesting part being that it is once again Abbado who conducts, which allows for comparisons with my Pollini recording. While I consider the Brendel version to be very good, it does not feature the same qualities of the Pollini, which I suspect to be m...

Mahler

I presently have the 4th in my amazon shopping cart and am looking forward to getting it. Brilliant choice, as far as I am concerned. I do not think you will regret it. There is nothing I can equate it to (which does not necessarily make it the best version; it is just special). As for your questio...

Mahler

That must be the recording to which I had my Mahler Ninth epiphany awhile back. Not that it means anything, but I could never imagine jogging to it! :) It is quite simple, actually. I know that composition inside out, so I do not struggle any longer while listening to it. I think I studied the firs...

Mahler

While jogging, I listened to Bruckner's Ninth (Abbado, Wiener Philharmoniker). Later today I relaxed to a Debussy collection I hardly remember buying: Nocturnes , Prélude à l'aprés-midi d'un faune , Printemps and La Mer , played to my satisfaction by an orchestra (l'Orchestre du Capitole de Toulouse...

Mahler

It can take some work to unseat the reference point, and it may also require a radically different approach to make one listen. I guess it depends on what the reference point is. For example, I first heard Brahms' violin concerto with Anne-Sophie Mutter, Kurt Masur and the New York Philharmonic Orc...

Mahler

Basically, it's a personal journey - it's good to hear from anyone that likes the music - especially, when we don't bump into classical music buffs on every street corner. I wasn't trying to deprecate anyone's choices, rather I was trying to elevate the importance of the opinion that is off the str...

Mahler

Ludwig van Beethoven
piano concerti No. 2 & 5
Alfred Brendel, piano
Wiener Philharmoniker
Sir Simon Rattle

Mahler

A more tenable explanation would be that the Pollini is very, very good but has been overlooked. Two significant components of these 'favourites' selections are a) received wisdom, and b) personal taste. To a point, the actual quality of the playing is often a lesser factor. You are probably right,...

Mahler

I find it quite interesting to be the only one to have even mentioned Maurizio Pollini up to this point. Not that there is something necessarily wrong with that; I just assumed a renowned virtuoso (renowned for his Brahms interpretations, at that) would be more appreciated, especially in combination...

Mahler

slofstra wrote:Can anyone recommend a source for a score?

This might be what you are looking for.

Mahler

Thanks for all your contributions and suggestions. I have already checked out samples of some of them, and the differences to the Pollini recording I own are amazing. The Richter recording sounds so much more laboured, almost stakkato in comparison to the version I am used to (which, by the way, mig...

Mahler

I was wondering if anyone could recommend another interpretation of Brahms' 2nd piano concerto. I have a Pollini recording in my possession (Abbado, Wiener Philharmoniker from 1977) which is impressive, but I would like to be able to compare it to a different version. Any ideas?

Mahler

I still haven't heard some of the big ones like Schumann, Haydn, Mahler , Shostakovich, Dittersdorf :D, and others - too many to name here. If I may give another recommendation: Do not be too hasty with Mahler. As with Bruckner, Mahler's music is said to be among the most difficult and most complex...

Mahler

Unlike pop music, which tires out after 10 or so listenings, classical music offers that kind of depth. I agree. Personally, I find this most gratifying: being able to experience something endlessly. As you said, pop music does not offer that, nor does it offer dozens of interpretations from differ...

Mahler

I get my biggest kick when something that was new 'becomes' familiar. There's a moment of penetration or comprehension of a work that is not found on first listening, but is found somewhere along the way in repeated listening. A wonderful description of a moment I experienced most strikingly with B...

Mahler

You leave me puzzled. I was merely giving chronological examples for piano (Bach, Chopin) and symphonies (Haydn, Bruckner). Plus, I did not even address the complex nature of classical music. Please do not to interprete my words beyond what I actually wrote.

Mahler

Might be a good way for me to knock out Beethoven's material in one purcahse Probably, but I hope you do not plan to stop at on purchase. As much as I like and respect Pollini, I strongly recommend the five piano concerti with Brendel, Rattle and the Wiener Philharmoniker. This is not a question of...

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Brahms' piano concerto recommendations