Search found 270 matches

by Sator
Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:28 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: I Love Siegfried !
Replies: 76
Views: 15038

Re: I Love Siegfried !

I never said that Karajan's approach was a chamber music approach. I actually said that this seemed a rather extreme characterisation that was presumably intended to stress the fact that Karajan's approach was primarily an Absolute Music and symphonic approach - a view close to the sort of thing fou...
by Sator
Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:59 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: I Love Siegfried !
Replies: 76
Views: 15038

Re: I Love Siegfried !

Karajan's Ring evolved. If you listen to his 1950s Bayreuth performances, they are pretty mainstream in style and not kammermusikalisch in the least bit. However, Janowitz herself characterised Karajan's approach to the studio recording of the Ring as kammermusikalisch - and she really was there! Co...
by Sator
Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:22 pm
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: I Love Siegfried !
Replies: 76
Views: 15038

Re: I Love Siegfried !

I found the following very interesting review of some live Karajan performances, and even here his orchestral approach is described as kammermusikalisch even with Hotter, Nilsson and Windgassen: http://members.chello.at/hedda.hoyer/Saisons/1960-61/60-09/September-60.htm DER SEPTEMBER 1960 5. Jahrgan...
by Sator
Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:00 pm
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: I Love Siegfried !
Replies: 76
Views: 15038

Re: I Love Siegfried !

Since Karajan isn't available, I'll take it up with you. Exactly when and where did he say this? In Richard Osborne's "Conversations with Karajan" he specifically contradicts it: "When we did the 'Ring' people said it was 'chamber music,' but I would deny that. It was the full Wagner orchestra, wit...
by Sator
Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:49 pm
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: I Love Siegfried !
Replies: 76
Views: 15038

Re: I Love Siegfried !

Changing the subject. Toscanini never conducted the Ring cycle anywhere, nor any of the Ring operas at Bayreuth. It's his "Parsifal" that held the Bayreuth slow-poke record until James Levine outdid it. Besides "Parsifal," Toscanini also conducted "Tannhäuser" and "Tristan und Isolde" at Bayreuth. ...
by Sator
Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:45 pm
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: I Love Siegfried !
Replies: 76
Views: 15038

Re: I Love Siegfried !

<One of the Ring cycles I generally like the most is the one from Böhm, which is known for its very fast tempi. > I have often said that too. You beat me to the minor edit on that one. Again, I didn't want to come across a nutty Böhm evangelist either. That said, recently I heard a radio interview ...
by Sator
Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:02 pm
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: I Love Siegfried !
Replies: 76
Views: 15038

Re: I Love Siegfried !

for my own tastes - the best Wagner conductors were non-Teutoic, by and large - they don't take it so seriously, and do not play it so ponderously and presumptuously...Toscanini, Solti, Reiner were great Wagner conductors, who unerringly sensed and brought out the drama of the music and the story.....
by Sator
Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:49 pm
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: I Love Siegfried !
Replies: 76
Views: 15038

Re: I Love Siegfried !

Karajan's "Chamber Music" Ring Cycle I did hear Karajan conduct in the opera house, and can testify that he did not reduce his singers to subservience to the orchestra. Karajan himself referred to his Ring cycle as a chamber music Ring . That choice of words is not mine, it is Karajan's ( if you're...
by Sator
Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:02 pm
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: I Love Siegfried !
Replies: 76
Views: 15038

Re: I Love Siegfried !

and to regard Solti as some sort of untried "podium lightweight" is totally ludicrous..... At the time Culshaw hired Solti for the Ring, he was a relative unknown outsider choice, without any Bayreuth crudentials. Culshaw made Solti. The strange thing is that when it comes to discussions of Parsifa...
by Sator
Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:43 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: I Love Siegfried !
Replies: 76
Views: 15038

Re: I Love Siegfried !

I can already see that after that critique of the Culshaw-Solti Siegfried - and implicitly their entire Ring cycle - you will want to know who gets it right. You will want to know who realises the terror of that high chromatic violin passage and who patiently, without any rushing, builds up to the p...
by Sator
Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:15 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: I Love Siegfried !
Replies: 76
Views: 15038

Re: I Love Siegfried !

A Critique of the Culshaw-Solti Ring This thread began with the usual unbridled praise of the Culshaw-Solti Ring cycle. My poor view of this recording is probably well known by now. Inspired by this thread, I have taken to listening to it again for the first time in many years. I must say, there ar...
by Sator
Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:55 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: I Love Siegfried !
Replies: 76
Views: 15038

Re: I Love Siegfried !

The problem about Siegfried is that it is a little too accessible. The forging of the great sword, Notung, the confrontation with the dragon, Fafner, leading to his awakening of Brünnhilde - it all seems so action packed that it is easy to neglect the darker, more philosophical side of the Ring, whi...
by Sator
Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:09 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: I Love Siegfried !
Replies: 76
Views: 15038

Re: I Love Siegfried !

Some thoughts on Freud and Wagner ***Siegfried confronts Wotan. Freudian metaphors stand out. Wotan's spear is bigger than Siegfried's sword, but sharp youthful fearlessness trumps age, wisdom, treaties and rank. No wonder that Siegfried has a small but intense following. With its extended pacing, ...
by Sator
Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:27 pm
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: I Love Siegfried !
Replies: 76
Views: 15038

Re: I Love Siegfried !

I've been following this thread since it first went up. I had been going through a Ring phase of late - for the first time in many years actually. In a former internet virtual life, I used to write long essays on music, including Wagner. I used to post a lot and developed something of following amon...
by Sator
Fri Dec 09, 2011 3:30 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: From Australia Another Top 100 List To Ponder............
Replies: 45
Views: 7795

Re: From Australia Another Top 100 List To Ponder...........

^ What are you saying Chalkie? So if you had everyone across American voting for their favourite 20th century composition, are you suggesting that the list would be full to the brim with works by Anton Webern, Elliott Carter and Milton Babbitt? :)
by Sator
Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:19 pm
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: From Australia Another Top 100 List To Ponder............
Replies: 45
Views: 7795

Re: From Australia Another Top 100 List To Ponder...........

Actually, Bartók did make the list. The Concerto for Orchestra is at Nr 42. The Music for Strings, Percussion & Celeste made it to Nr 102, just behind the Berg Violin Concerto at 101. BTW, since this list is the intellectual property of ABC Radio, we should have a link to the original source: http:/...
by Sator
Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:07 pm
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: From Australia Another Top 100 List To Ponder............
Replies: 45
Views: 7795

Re: From Australia Another Top 100 List To Ponder...........

^ This is the 20th century top 100. Neither Verdi nor Wagner's works were written in the 20th century. Very few of Dvořák's works are 20th century works eg Rusalka, Armida. Borodin died in 1887. For the record, I didn't vote. Forgot to get my say in on time. I am always torn between voting for my ge...
by Sator
Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:48 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: From Australia Another Top 100 List To Ponder............
Replies: 45
Views: 7795

Re: From Australia Another Top 100 List To Ponder...........

The Ravel quartet is a surpise for me - probably thought they were voting for Bolero? There are a coupling of surprisingly good things in there. I do suspect it is the work of a bunch of students studying string instruments doing some block voting - getting their friends and family who have never h...
by Sator
Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:36 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: From Australia Another Top 100 List To Ponder............
Replies: 45
Views: 7795

Re: From Australia Another Top 100 List To Ponder...........

I cringed my way through the whole list. I followed it on ABC radio and was hoping for better. When the Elgar came through at Nr 1 I lost all faith. Australia really does suffer from a petty colonialist mentality. I imagine the people who voted for that one want God Save the Queen reinstated as the ...
by Sator
Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:34 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Franz Liszt in National Socialist Propaganda Film
Replies: 8
Views: 2369

Re: Franz Liszt in National Socialist Propaganda Film

These sorts of emotive political associations with the music were deliberately manufactured by the Imperial ("Reichs") Propaganda Ministry. People should really be more outraged that the Nazi propaganda machine remains so powerful that it continues to successfully tinker with their minds and emotion...
by Sator
Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:56 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Franz Liszt in National Socialist Propaganda Film
Replies: 8
Views: 2369

Re: Franz Liszt in National Socialist Propaganda Film

As far as I can make out, Liszt intended this part of the tone poem to represent battle, but of course it's no more about the Wehrmacht than about cowboys and indians or Ming the Merciless. :) All true, but admittedly it might be hard for someone suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder to und...
by Sator
Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:16 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: ++Rachmaninoff's Moments musicaux w/Zilberstein
Replies: 4
Views: 1625

Re: ++Rachmaninoff's Moments musicaux w/Zilberstein

When I recently recommended her recording of late Brahms pieces, my comment seem to make little impact so I thought maybe it was just me and nobody else really was as wowed by her playing as I am. But I see now that I am not alone.
by Sator
Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:25 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Franz Liszt in National Socialist Propaganda Film
Replies: 8
Views: 2369

Franz Liszt in National Socialist Propaganda Film

I was tempted to say something more provocative. However, I think it suffices to say that this is a reminder that Liszt was not the only composer whose music was misused by Nazi propagandists: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnMsF-dzgAY Nor should one judge Liszt adversely for it, since he was long d...
by Sator
Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:29 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: What do you think of Mahler's transcriptions?
Replies: 7
Views: 1599

Re: What do you think of Mahler's transcriptions?

Mahler isn't the only conductor or composer to retouch, arrange, or even rewrite existing music. It was common in the 18th and 19th century. In modern times, even Toscanini, the conductor who is most associated with playing music as written, retouched Beethoven's and other composers' orchestration ...
by Sator
Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:11 pm
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Help me out! Suggest pieces with fantastic orchestration
Replies: 44
Views: 6618

Re: Help me out! Suggest pieces with fantastic orchestration

Yes, the sense of "time" in Boulez is particularly fascinating. I always find that his finest works remind me of Japanese Noh drama with its use of stick percussion and drums. Both share a Zen like sense of suspended animation. In this work, the primitively ritualised repetition of the main theme ac...
by Sator
Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:47 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Help me out! Suggest pieces with fantastic orchestration
Replies: 44
Views: 6618

Re: Help me out! Suggest pieces with fantastic orchestration

I've spent time with the Messiaen, Webern, and Schoenberg but not the Boulez. I'll give it a go! -G The Boulez Rituel in Memoriam Bruno Maderna is a bit like Bolero on shamanistic hallucinogens. It is written for eight groups of instruments spread out over a wide performance space with a very rich ...
by Sator
Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:48 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Help me out! Suggest pieces with fantastic orchestration
Replies: 44
Views: 6618

Re: Help me out! Suggest pieces with fantastic orchestration

Messiaen Turangalîla Symphony

Webern Sechs Orchesterstuecke Opus 6

Boulez Rituel: In Memoriam Bruno Maderna

Schoenberg Variations for Orchestra
by Sator
Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:09 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Your thoughts on Brahms' Op. 116 to 119
Replies: 43
Views: 10161

Re: Your thoughts on Brahms' Op. 116 to 119

I can also highly recommend this recording by Zilberstein:

http://www.amazon.com/Brahms-Paganini-V ... 654&sr=8-2
by Sator
Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:11 pm
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Gustav Mahler's Paraphrase of Thomas More
Replies: 13
Views: 10386

Re: Gustav Mahler's Paraphrase of Thomas More

Schlamperei means a lot of things. Duden says grosse Nachverlässigkeit. I sometimes just translate it as "slop" to capture the fact that it is not a formal word but more like slang. I cut and paste that translation with the term laziness and let it be, because it fitted into the rest of the phrase.
by Sator
Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:45 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Gustav Mahler's Paraphrase of Thomas More
Replies: 13
Views: 10386

Re: Gustav Mahler's Paraphrase of Thomas More

I see there is also this discussion on Wikipedia: Thomas More quote It appears that Gustav Mahler once attributed an aphorism, "tradition is the passing on of the fire, not the worship of the ashes" as based on Thomas More. Strangely, I fail to find the original quote. The attribution to More is inv...
by Sator
Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:34 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Gustav Mahler's Paraphrase of Thomas More
Replies: 13
Views: 10386

Re: Gustav Mahler's Paraphrase of Thomas More

I didn't realise they had a discussion board attached to that. They are saying much the same thing as we are. This one post there was illuminating, and included a good English version: Ob Sir Thomas More wirklich sagte: Tradition is not to preserve the ashes but to pass on the flame " scheint mir zw...
by Sator
Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:05 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Gustav Mahler's Paraphrase of Thomas More
Replies: 13
Views: 10386

Re: Gustav Mahler's Paraphrase of Thomas More

The first time I came across the quote, it was attributed to Mahler. I then Googled it, as I had forgotten the exact phrasing only to find different and rather confusing attributions. This sums them up: Thomas Morus (1477/78-1535): "Tradition ist nicht das Halten der Asche, sondern das Weitergeben d...
by Sator
Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:26 pm
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Gustav Mahler's Paraphrase of Thomas More
Replies: 13
Views: 10386

Gustav Mahler's Paraphrase of Thomas More

In German a popular quotation of "Thomas Morus", or Thomas More, goes something like this - in this instance, as paraphrased by Gustav Mahler to the point that it is occasionally attributed to him: "Tradition ist die Weitergabe des Feuers und nicht die Anbetung der Asche." Namely "tradition is the h...
by Sator
Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:39 pm
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Norman Lebrecht exposes Fanfare Buy A Review policy
Replies: 100
Views: 18321

Re: Norman Lebrecht exposes Fanfare Buy A Review policy

You guys forget that Fanfare is a business. The classical music business is a small one and survival is the main focus of interest here. I have no problems with them passing a recording around until they find a reviewer who feels a positive affinity for it. Virtually all of the media has such financ...
by Sator
Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:37 pm
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Haydn: Stabat Mater: Any Recommendations?
Replies: 23
Views: 4082

Re: Haydn: Stabat Mater: Any Recommendations?

The Harnoncourt Stabat Mater would probably be amongst the best recordings by this conductor I have ever heard. I remember interviews with the LSO about 15 years ago when he conducted a Beethoven cycle with them. The members said that it was nonsense that musicians hate rehearsing, because every reh...
by Sator
Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:09 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Haydn: Stabat Mater: Any Recommendations?
Replies: 23
Views: 4082

Re: Haydn: Stabat Mater: Any Recommendations?

I highly recommend the Harnoncourt version.
by Sator
Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:31 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Bach vs Beethoven
Replies: 13
Views: 2875

Re: Bach vs Beethoven

Admittedly, i have not been turned on either by Beethoven's Missa Solemnis. I am, otherwise, a most devoted Beethovenian. Rather than accuse the brain, in my case I think it has something to do with the heart, mine, not Beethoven's. I used to feel this way. Gardiner did not help me one bit. http://...
by Sator
Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:48 pm
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: The end of the CD?
Replies: 48
Views: 7201

Re: The end of the CD?

embrace the new era of digital media! Oh I do. I use iTunes a lot. For example I have the complete Haydn symphonies, Beethoven quartets etc for quick reference. I like the ability to find movements with a keyboard search. The fact is that if I then burn them into a music CD format and play them on ...
by Sator
Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:41 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: The Glaring Weak Spot of Modern Music:
Replies: 27
Views: 4600

Re: The Glaring Weak Spot of Modern Music:

I think Wolfgang Rihm's Départ is an absolutely riveting work.
by Sator
Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:48 pm
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: The end of the CD?
Replies: 48
Views: 7201

Re: The end of the CD?

MP3 are just the musical equivalent of a low resolution JPEG image: http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/Satorarepo/Album%202011/Johann_Sebastian_Bach_low-4.jpg http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/Satorarepo/Album%202011/Johann_Sebastian_Bach_low-1.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/...
by Sator
Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:08 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Swarowsky's Ring des Nibelungen
Replies: 11
Views: 5130

Re: Swarowsky's Ring des Nibelungen

ill-cast Ring cycle of a Kapellmeister such as Swarowsky I have heard Karl Böhm being dismissed as a Kapellmeister as well. Yet I have also heard a former principle of the LSO say that despite playing under the leader of all of the so-called "celebrity" conductors of the time including Solti, that ...
by Sator
Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:52 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Swarowsky's Ring des Nibelungen
Replies: 11
Views: 5130

Re: Swarowsky's Ring des Nibelungen

I am sure I am going to be hung drawn and quartered for saying this, but I really can't stop listening to this Ring, and everything I am hearing just wows me. Here is a biography on Hans Swarowsky with a brief review of his Ring, which so far, I completely agree with: Born in Hungary, Swarowsky stud...
by Sator
Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:19 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Swarowsky's Ring des Nibelungen
Replies: 11
Views: 5130

Re: Swarowsky's Ring des Nibelungen

Thanks for the heads up on this one. For some reason this recording was hitherto unfamiliar to me. I have been listening to excerpts on iTunes. The Amazon download is sadly unavailable outside of the US due to contractual reasons, which means that I would have to pay $68 dollars for the iTunes downl...
by Sator
Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:56 pm
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Opinions sought on Böhm's Wagner: Der Ring des Nibelungen
Replies: 39
Views: 9760

Re: Opinions sought on Böhm's Wagner: Der Ring des Nibelunge

josé echenique wrote: Böhm´s superb DG Tristan has long been a classic of the discography, surpassed only by Furtwängler in commercially produced recordings of that opera.
Umm...actually, as much as I like Furtwängler, I prefer the Böhm....right from the first introduction of the Tristan chord.
by Sator
Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:28 pm
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Opinions sought on Böhm's Wagner: Der Ring des Nibelungen
Replies: 39
Views: 9760

Re: Opinions sought on Böhm's Wagner: Der Ring des Nibelunge

I'm reading astonishingly negative things here about Solti's Wagner conducting. I can't make any sense at all of this extreme distaste. But that's how it sometimes is with taste. So be it. Really? I thought you would well read enough to have heard all of these critiques of Solti many times before. ...
by Sator
Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:43 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Opinions sought on Böhm's Wagner: Der Ring des Nibelungen
Replies: 39
Views: 9760

Re: Opinions sought on Böhm's Wagner: Der Ring des Nibelunge

I also rather like the Karajan "die Walküre", and indeed the entire Karajan Ring. Die Walküre is probably my favourite Wagner opera - the last time a Bayreuth recording with Pappano came on over the radio while I was driving, I nearly crashed the car because even before the major dramatic peaks of t...
by Sator
Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:26 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Opinions sought on Böhm's Wagner: Der Ring des Nibelungen
Replies: 39
Views: 9760

Re: Opinions sought on Böhm's Wagner: Der Ring des Nibelunge

I prefer Böhm to Furtwängler in Wagner. However, I prefer anyone - absolutely anyone :twisted: - to Solti in Wagner.
by Sator
Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:09 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Opinions sought on Böhm's Wagner: Der Ring des Nibelungen
Replies: 39
Views: 9760

Re: Opinions sought on Böhm's Wagner: Der Ring des Nibelunge

I would take the Boehm Ring over any other any day. He has a much better grasp of the work-as-a-whole. Solti's sounds like a Ring's highlight recording with emptiness in between - a version for Wagner haters who like to think of his music as being a shapeless mess. As for the real peaks, the way Boe...
by Sator
Sat Sep 17, 2011 1:56 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: My Quirky CD Collection
Replies: 8
Views: 1881

Re: My Quirky CD Collection

There are two broad collecting philosophies: you either collect works or you collect performances. In general, collecting works is probably the more mature way of doing things to avoid having a dozen copies of the same work. I still do collect performances, but the more time goes by I only do so if ...
by Sator
Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:38 am
Forum: Classical Music Chatterbox
Topic: Do you need to know the lyrics?
Replies: 13
Views: 2886

Re: Do you need to know the lyrics?

I not only prefer to have the written text or libretto but have good familiarity with the language. I can always tell if a singer has a deep understanding of the text when the language is German or English. Part of the reason I rarely listen to Italian opera is that my Italian is good enough to unde...