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paulb

Jack Kelso wrote:
Hey, Paul---I enjoyed reading your agreement with John.

You two seem to think alike in many ways....

Jack

Hey Jack, thats a pretty good shot...the ol "2 birds/one stone' deal.
But I guess you might like to express it as '2 dumbasses with one shot"

paulb

Jack Kelso wrote:
Hey, Paul---I enjoyed reading your agreement with John.

You two seem to think alike in many ways....

Jack

Jack I'll have to admit, pretty good shot, got both John and me at one throw, "2 birds with one stone" or would I guess you're thinking "2 dumbasses with one bullet".

paulb

but would anyone agree that Klemperer, Walter, Furtwängler et al "deceived" their own minds by pretending that Bruckner was a great composer if he were not---and to perform him with such Jack Jack i happen to catch the tape interview of Bruno Walter shortly before he passed. When the interview came...

paulb

jbuck919 Bruckner equal to Brahms as a symphonist? Brahms, who appreciated Wagner ("Do you think I am such a clod as not to realize that Meistersinger is a mastepiece?") though Bruckner lauguable. To me, they are not equal. Bruckner is very superior. I invite you to listen the 8th Symphony. If you ...

paulb

Bruckner equal to Brahms as a symphonist? Brahms, who appreciated Wagner ("Do you think I am such a clod as not to realize that Meistersinger is a mastepiece?") though Bruckner lauguable. The ability to get from the beginning to the end in great forms does not equate to genius. Brahms' scathing art...

paulb

In terms of form, Bruckner pretty much the wrote the same symphony over and over with different content. I can understand why somebody like Brahms didn't like them very much. Also, Bruckner was a bit of a goof ball and people were naturally inclined to be circumspect around him. BTW, it must be sai...

paulb

György Ligeti (1923–2006). Darn! I knew I'd forgotton someone important. Should I delete one of the names no one's voted for and replace them with Gyorgy? btw I didn't include guys like Schnittke . Ligeti's name would fit in quite nicely with this grouping of names. As I know well , more than I wan...

paulb

Not one of them!!! Ralph believe it or not, for once your position and mine align up perfectly. You say it so ...succintly. I go on and on, and look stupid. ***** We make a good team. :) WHAT? A couple of DONKEYS on CMG? It just couldn't be possible ... just couldn't be - and I can't believe it, at...

paulb

Not one of them!!! Ralph believe it or not, for once your position and mine align up perfectly. You say it so ...succintly. I go on and on, and look stupid. ***** We make a good team. :) I know that much of the 20th century music in my collection clashes with the composers you've come to love. I ca...

paulb

Ralph wrote:Not one of them!!!

Ralph believe it or not, for once your position and mine align up perfectly.
You say it so ...succintly.
I go on and on, and look stupid. Or an ass, as i've been told today.

paulb

I personally love Alfred Schnittke, but out of the people on the list it is vary hard to say, ? I'm with you and Joe, if Schnittke and Carter were on the list, it'd make it quite simple. ...well I'm glad i deleted some comments about the list...as it may have given this board even more reason to vo...

paulb

I may not be a senior poster, but I saw no problem with your post Brahms :wink: with Wagner, I find certain moments of his music to be of great beauty and emotional power, but in the longer structure of his operatic movements I find something lacking and his use of his leitmotifs boring and uninspi...

paulb

Nav welcome, post freely Lance I knew we had hundreds of lurkers, as ususally at any given time there are 2-5 on line members and 5-20 "guests". I do not think we have any "cliques' here. Which can be a putoff for any new potential members willingness to jump in. For those who think they may not hav...

paulb

But to answer your question of who was the finest, most intergrative bridge of the 2 eras, the answer is very easy. Schonberg. His sq's and Guerreleider along with Choral, and many other fine, stunning, unreal chamber works, is the biggest, longest most perfect bridge uniting the shores of the Land ...

paulb

For me personally, it would be my oft mentioned favs, Debussy, Ravel, Schonberg, Vaughan Williams. Debussy for his opera Pelleas, sq, piano, some orchestra, and other chamber Ravel sq, trio, orchestra, piano, pc. and other chamber. Schonberg piano sonata, chamber, orchestra, Gurrelieder, vocal, chor...

paulb

Where others have been dumbfounded as to why i can't seem to enjoy Beethoven What a crock. The reason you don't seem to enjoy Beethoven is the same reason why Robert Newman should not be taken seriously. You are both asses... :lol: If by my confession that i lack all and any desire or wish to hear ...

paulb

Ahh Gurn, its now that I realize Beethoven is my friend afterall. I wish I could like his music. Frank Zappa quote " Most people wouldn't know good music if it came up and bit them in the ass" Paul. At least it's a start. You are getting there! Have you tried Beethoven's Cello & Piano Sonata No. 3,...

paulb

I have the individual CDs, not the set. And never noticed a problem. Is this only with the set? I'll have to check the Thomson CD of #4 tomorrow. Please do. Though several other amazon reviewers said they had no glitches on their sets, It could have been a 'bad batch" at some point during the produ...

paulb

Well I really don't mind if anyone cares to share his thoughts on the subject of RVW syms. Open topic. In syms 4 Mitropoulos/New York/1956 has explosive energy and overall quite good. One of my favs from RVW. The 6th with Stokowski/New York/1949 is also high energy and well played. These seem to be ...

paulb

Paul, does CMG have a Pettersson thread? If not, you should start one. 8) . . . . but perhaps someday . . . . . . . A topic on Pettersson may not be a 'big hit" topic around these parts so i felt best just to plug his name and music whenever an opportunity arises. Same for Schnittke. A great thread...

paulb

have you heard anything by the german(russian :?: lets assume he was german ) composer called Alfred Schnittke? Paul, I discovered Schnittke about a year ago, and, along with Ligeti and Pettersson, Schnittke ranks among my favorite modern-era composers. I enjoy his cello and violin concerti, his sy...

paulb

Ahh Gurn, its now that I realize Beethoven is my friend afterall. I wish I could like his music. I think Beethoven wrote that poem as a invatation for all men to unite in brotherly love. Can't argue with that. Can I take his poem without the music? Gurn , as you can see I'm that same old %%#**&!!! I...

paulb

2. The opening post eliminates Bach, Beethoven, and Mozart; after Bach and Beethoven, Brahms IS the greatest German composer. Hi Brahms, glad to have you on board. I guess you're happy I took bach and Beethoven off the playing field, as surely Brahms has the next greater output right there on the s...

paulb

Just to let everyone know that there is a comment from a amazon reviewer that stated his Thomson set has glitches, sharp snaps. I originally made a comment it might be possible on my set as well. Today I finally got around listening to cd3, and at the end of sym 4, there are a few moments of sharp s...

paulb

Everyone has their favs in recordings, here's mine Late pc's/Uchida on her 2 double set 1+19-23 and 16+24-27/Philips Syms/Bohm/Berlin/DG Requiem/Bohm/Vienna/DG(avoid the Orfeo release of Bohm/from 1950, its a dud) I understand you do not like choral, but in the future keep in a mind a hidden gem, Ph...

paulb

One go at a two-minute sound clip of one movement hardly qualifies for a merit badge. I like you very much, Paul. I wish you could see how pronouncements like the above destroy your credibility as a guide to good music. I have repeatable said here, that I do not set my self up a THE Censor Of the M...

paulb

I , along with one other, voted for Wagner. just to hear Gustav Neidlinger sing the role of Alberich in the 52 and 53 Ring's is enough to get my vote. Yes, but you have ever played the weathervane to the latest 60-second sound-clip, Paul :-) Cheers, ~Karl No, but i did manage this morning to make i...

paulb

I , along with one other, voted for Wagner. just to hear Gustav Neidlinger sing the role of Alberich in the 52 and 53 Ring's is enough to get my vote. And we're not talking the beautiful parts in Parsifal and Tristan, with Modl. Clearly some moving music for voice and orchestra. I happen to think Br...

paulb

you'll use everything Shakespeare wrote and twist it to mean whatever you wish.

You just stick to your Tchaikovsky and I to Schnittke. We both go our merry ways and live happily ever after

paulb

paulb Something neither Schnittke, Prok, Shosty, nor Pettersson had the benifits of. They were subjected to extreme mental anguish that drove their immune system into hell. Stress kills , if you were not aware. I don't want to repeat myself, but Paulb: how greater stress than Byrd composing his thr...

paulb

Karl though I did recant on the charge of murder, I still hold these mother countries up to some degree of guilt. You're Romanticizing , Paul. Or, go ahead, prove me wrong: (1) How do you define and quantify the nature of the guilt? (2) And why is the US not just as guilty, or yet guiltier? Now, I'...

paulb

Although I have no idea what Debussy's own self-pserceived influcnces may have been, I can't myself state that I hear Wagner, Schumann or Chopin in his music nearly as much as I do that of Dukas, Saint-Saens and Franck. Possibly Wagner, and that mostly in Pelleas. Lizst however seems to have some p...

paulb

Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Schnittke. Not to mention thousands of other artists. Had Russia not been the way it was, those composers would not have turned out they way they are recognized in history. Hence the irony of it all. Good point. Which is why i brought in that eternal myth of the hero. All h...

paulb

Perhaps he was referring to the fact that the Nazis weren't too keen on Jewish composers, and Schoenberg had to leave Germany to survive. If he'd stayed long enough to be sent to a camp, then THAT would have been murder. Exactly. Schnonberg somehow escaped the turmoil just in time before the negati...

paulb

Karl though I did recant on the charge of murder, I still hold these mother countries up to some degree of guilt. Though the hero myth is exemplified in these composers lives, a journey which death and great suffering is an inherent intregral part, still I feel the respective countries must bear som...

paulb

Debussy once noted that he could never comprehend how a master of Schumann's greatness "allowed himself" to be influenced by that (mere clerk) Mendelssohn. Obviously, even Debussy had a "blind-spot" here and there. Jack When I hear Mendelssohn, I feel I'm under the cloud of Beethoven. This may have...

paulb

paulb Do you think that William Byrd had more freedom of creation in the middle of the persecutions against catholics? Do you think that JS Bach in Leipzig had more freedom of creation? Or Beethoven under Metternich regime? Or Rimsky-Korsakov under the Czar? Or Dallapiccola under the fascism? Or We...

paulb

All right last night I gave more proper thought to what i will admit was a bit rash accusation. Let me rephrase what i feel may have some truth to it, something more believable. Lets just say their mother country did nothing to secure the well being of its greatest citizens. As you know I believe in...

paulb

I used to be completely bored by Berlioz. Now I have over 100 Berlioz CDs and have attended quite a few concerts featuring his music over the last few years. I used to feel the same way about Schumann--his orchestral and chamber music seemed gray and drab to me. Now I have grown to appreciate his s...

paulb

Interesting points. Of course Wagner had influences from Beethoven, its clearly there in his "more bombastic' operas, those i really don't like. Wagner's best creativity issues from his studies of Mozart opera and most importantly his land's folklore. Interesting you mention Lizst as importance in ...

paulb

All three composers died of natural causes at a fairly advanced age. Murder is a heinous crime and the charge should not be thoughtessly levied as above. You being in the law practice, What part you don't understand of , Murder. First degree? Not quite. An accomplice, 2nd degree? Yes. Sweden finish...

paulb

I don't knoow about any blind spots of John's - but just to show how we're all different, my reaction to Strtauss is quite hte opposite of Gerymouse's.I keep being happily embraced by his tonal poetry. But my dark (blind) spots do include some names sacred to others - Debussy and Ravel, for instanc...

paulb

Yep, we all have 'em. Also, composers Sibelius, Ravel and Skriabin. Perhaps I just need more exposure to them.....?! After all, we should never allow ourselves to stagnate, should we? Good listening!!! :? Jack Well first off there is a Dictionary of Composers, lists every composer that ever scored....

paulb

Carter, Schnittke, Pettersson, these are the closers of a long wonderful tradition , starting with Vivaldi and Bach. The end of the classical era. What comes after this is anyones guess. And frankly I could care less, as I won't be around to hear it anyway. I'll be gone. It is obvious that Wagner w...

paulb

If these 4 composers were not murdered, then neither was Socrates nor Jesus Christ. Paul , I am guessing that you really imagine that this supports your point. But as most sensible people read, your curtain line only underscores the banana oil content. Cheers, ~Karl Ah you know how "ir" rational I ...

paulb

The brutality that Pettersson's father commited against the youth, Sweden finsihed him off. Sweden killed Pettersson.
Russia killed Prokofiev, Shostakovich and Schnittke.

If these 4 composers were not murdered, then neither was Socrates nor Jesus Christ.

paulb

It has occurred to me that the one consistent quality that seems to prevail on this thread is that of inconsistency of choice. And we are all doing it. There are so many eras, nationalities, genres and directions of musical composition that our own likes, prejudices and dislikes are driven into a c...

paulb

[quote="j If (say) Elliott Carter at age 98 composed the Mendelssohn Octet , we wouldn't think it a masterpiece, would we? Musical greatness, too, has context. Cheers, ~Karl That whole family, Beethoven/Schubert/Schnumann/Brahms/Mendelssohn/Dvorak, heck I'd even place Chopin as a very close cousin,...

paulb

Do you know, specifically, who killed them? What about Mravinsky, Sveshnikov, Golovanov ... Kastalsky, Chesnakov, and some of the others? Hi Lance, I'll only respond to your post, as the others , yet once again, have no desire to understand what I'm saying. Lance I could bring out these l3 lives in...

paulb

Shostakovich, Prokofiev, Schnittke.
Not to mention thousands of other artists.

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Russia murdered its 3 greatest composers