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paulb

Hey mark this is Sibelius topic so can't say much on Pettersson. Stay with that 8/10 cd. Also ck out the 7/11/BIS. Petterrson speaks to me on so many levels. Maybe one day you'll also hear his voice. I think the very best sym to get into P is his 7th. I'm not sure how anyone can walk away from that ...

paulb

Good post Karl. All reasonable and understandable. We all go through life discoveriing those things that are truly for us, and missing out on other opportunities than are not in our cards. As individuals we seek what best reflects our being, and ignore what we believe not to worthy of our time. Your...

paulb

Karl you are right Pettersson is and will remain unknown for quite some time. I'd say his biggest fan base is in germany, with less in england, sweden and the US. Regardless of the situation, or your opinion of his music. All i care to know is that there lived a man named Allan pettersson who wrote ...

paulb

The untouchable superwealthy families of mexico have already worked out a system to keep their puppet government n power. The "secret" (everyone knows of them) death squads murder just enough to keep any opposition in its place. They only kill 'just enough". They kill daily. The few super wealthy ha...

paulb

well read the poem, what idea comes to mind.
Someone is feeling a bit of a fool, "late in my career" She feels laughter is the medicine, not crying.
But women always cry allitle.

paulb

http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/alittlen ... clowns.htm

Is this the song?

paulb

the point is, if the Chicago wishes to perform any Pettersson, the brass had better be on tip-top form, or just forget it. Winds too, first class players only, nothing second rate. Pettersson, the CSO probably could perform creditably while standing on their heads atop the Sears Tower. Beethoven, a...

paulb

'The Chicago, from my 1990's recordings in bartok had issues in the brass in a few places.' :lol: there is never an issue with the chicago brass. dj Ah have i said something not in line with the "legendary brass section" of the Chicago? Well i may try to find the one and 2 places, its in the CfO I ...

paulb

I have one recording of Pettersson, I believe it's the 8th and 10th symphonies, occasionally I'll listen to it. I'm still waiting for enlightenment. Paul isn't the only avid Petterssonophile I've known. I know a retired musician, an avid fan of modern music of all sorts, but especially the scandina...

paulb

Pettersson sym 14. A work that I and Chris Forbes came to Pettersson, with Comissiona. I sold the Comissiona and bought this CPO recording. This is how I number P's syms, 2-11(12 is a choral poem) 13-15(16 is a "saxophone sym"). I hear these as 13 parts to a extended symphonic cycle. Other Pettersso...

paulb

In Belahazzras Feast i have the Segerstam/Helsinki on Ondine. Its clocks at 14:22, I see the vanska clocks at over 20 minutes. Not sure about the Jarvi/Gothenberg/BIS. The Segerstam is OK, but not near as good as the old vinyl I had of Rozhdestvensky/USSR/Melodyia, which i believe was the full 20 mi...

paulb

Karl that goes without saying.
And with your last post, its time to let this topic float downward into the back pages of oblivion. I've nothing more to say on this subject.
To say anymore would be redundancy.

paulb

Maybe I've been too harsh with the use of "making a mess of things". i guess what I meant to sat was missing some of the feeling elements. Characteristics that i believe are best effected by the composer's homeland bands. Not to say we should not hear from other foreigner groups efforts. I was think...

paulb

The first and second movements (especially the second) of the Barber Violin Concerto Ravel Pavane for a Dead Princess ) I'll look up the Barber vc. Pavane as performed by ravel, if only the 1905 recording was a tad better, still a moving performance, though closely equaled by 1 or 2 other french pi...

paulb

I feel for those who have to travel for business. I do not travel by plane right now, but will in the near future. Now i really have no fear of attacking terrorists, that may possibly hijack the plane i am on and possibly fly it into any building. No I have no fear at all of this mishap. its THE DAN...

paulb

But shouldn't a world class orch accept other less known 20th century compoers? Why the stubborn conservative attitude in ignoring Pettersson and Schnittke throughout the next 2 or 3 decades? Well, why should they when you have already doomed them to failure!?!? whatever i express here is not going...

paulb

I agree with your general point, but can't stand the Solti recording of Shostakovich's 13th :oops: . Sir George Solti actually made a Shostakovich recording :shock: Hopefully when either Schnittke or Pettersson makes it to these shores, they'll receive the commitment that will make the music a true...

paulb

I'll think of Schnittke and Petterson later. Peter Yes well i don't wish to place these 2 above the ordinary. But as we know life seems to cherish the greats. Movie stars, sports players , dancers, etc. we love only the best. Don't feel left out by your unfamiliarity with P and S. You are part of t...

paulb

Peter i would agree with you if I only accepted your premise that all composers are equal, or "they are all the same". We could all have a list of 20th century composers we wish to see more attention given. My list is only 2, yours is like 6+++. One good composer is equal to many lessers. EDIT: that...

paulb

Some here are entirely missing the point of this topic. Its highly unlikely Sibelius will find much, if any, representation within french orchestras programs in the next 2 decades. (all for good reason). Its also highly unlikely Debussy or Ravel will get much attention on russian soil. The germans, ...

paulb

Q.E.D. I recommend that we simply ignore paulb. Evidently he decides in advance what to believe and sticks to it, even when the facts are otherwise. If he continues to believe that no American orchestra can possibly perform Pettersson, despite documented evidence that Pettersson himself heard a rad...

paulb

Let's see: How about the old Bernstein recording (about 1962) of the Shostakovich Fifth Symphony on Columbia with the New York Philharmonic? How about the tremendous recordings by Slatkin on RCA of the Shostakovich Fourth and Eighth Symphonies with the St. Louis Symphony? How about Solti with Chica...

paulb

In my experience of american recordings, many are quite good, others fair, others lousey. The point I am trying to get across is that I consider Pettersson and Schnittke to be 2 'rather" important mid/late 20th century composers. And that eventually, say in the next 20-30 yrs, I would think it may b...

paulb

Name me one great recording by an american orch in any Shostakovich sym? If they can't get Shosty right, how do you expect they'll get Pettersson right? Like I say it s not within the scope of an american orchestras talents to record with success Petterrson or Schnittke. But that should not prevent ...

paulb

Dave I'm already ignored around here. I've heard Comissiona's 2 recordings with other orchs in Pettersson. Good, but I prefer the CPO and BIS. Facts are there will never be an american orch taking on Pettersson's syms, concert or studio,, and most likely (definetly) will never attempt Schnittke eith...

paulb

David I agree for the most part. I'll take a fine recording no matter which orch is playing. But you must admit in general a russian orch does not do the best with Debussy maybe also Ravel. But in general i prefer the french orchestras in these 2 french compoers. I'm not sure why I prefer Prokofiev ...

paulb

Just waiting on Karl, I'm sure he'll really have a mouthful to say. Karl just stay with the subject in question, please refrain from any innuendos io order to dodge the question at hand.
if you try to bang your text book on my head one more time, as you swing around I'm going to.......

paulb

Lance take note of Donald's post. His thoughts may be more reasonable, as he's not in any doubt that an american orchestra, or other major world orch could properly perform Pettersson. He's not saying most likely the music would come off very well, neither is he saying it would be a flop 'a mess'. d...

paulb

"why do you think...or excuse me, intuit..that this would be the case? "..."a mess of things"?? The reason , or at least part, has just occured to me. Over the yrs I've noticed on my fav recordings of some difficult works, these are the ones that do not go into the studio with a few days or just 1 d...

paulb

There was a time when it was almost universally accepted that only 3-4 orchestras in the world could adequately tackle Mahler. That, of course, has been proven short sighted. It would be interesting to hear what some of the best could do with the deeply moving, fascinating music of Pettersson. Very...

paulb

Here in the 4th game, 1st inning, Reyes makes a fantastic throw to get Pujols out and 1st baseman Delgado drops the ball. Lady Luck has abandoned the Mets. The Cardinals will take the win. Welp Mets won. Hot batting, or did the Cardinals bullpen crumble? Alittle of both. Now if the Mets go all the w...

paulb

Even if the New Yourk Phil, Cleveland, Boston, Chicago, Detroit, Minnesota recorded some of Pettersson's syms, I'd imagine the end result may not be all that great. I'm convinced only a german or swedish orch has the capacity to pull off the challenges of Pettersson. The 2 best attempts would come f...

paulb

David thats a pretty good , fair and accurate assessment of Sibelius. Surely can't argue with this estimation of the master, and i know much greater could be said. I wsih i had the abilities you finely displayed with this characterization of Sibelius. I might then try to express thoughts and feeling...

paulb

js i've been told this before from many others. Seems they argue by my promoting and expressing such deep feelings about these 2 masters, it may be counter productive. I say if the music is for them, they'll discover it. Likewise if not for them, they'll never find it. We engage ourselves with thing...

paulb

Yes, the "inner voice" being touted here is starting to sound more like the outbursts of the "inner child." In all the great myths from indians of the new world to the egyptians to the early greeks, there has never been a more important mythologem as the birth of the divine child. This world wide t...

paulb

An "inner voice" not informed by the considered opinions of its predecessors and peers is not enlightened but narcissistic and infantile. You would certainly have a case if the concern was something I created. Obviously we are talking about Pettersson and Schnittke. Look no amount of time trying to...

paulb

. I think Mozart was the most genius of all the composers.! No man nor angel has revealed this to you, but God Himself has. I also love the Requiem ,and can listen to it all day, and am AS astonished on the last listen as from the 1st of the day. I have at least 6 recordings, most of which i feel a...

paulb

And you're going to tell me that you've at least listened to some Beethoven . Well, again, Paul, the fact that (say) The Whining Harp has "listened" to some Elliott Carter somehow does not remedy his ignorance of Carter . Reflect on this, Paul; reflect well. Karl Pink harp is a special case. As we ...

paulb

IOW thank god there is music after Tachaikovsky and Sibelius. But just stay with what you know. The group loves to shut up the individual. Socrates and the Christ were 2 such individual voices surpressed by the group. . Carl Jung still has no voice in the psychotherapy field. Most likely never will....

paulb

Oh I see you'll now concede to to respect the individual's voice. But in someway my opinion is "ignorance and ill-informed" Got it. Should I bow as you pass? Hopefully as in our differences in musical taste , our paths may keep separate. I realize now that the past must remain as sacred and never un...

paulb

Hey Karl its quite a world we live in don't you think. Ideologies abound of the strangest kinds and the most vile sort flying its colors everywhere you look. Even the holy Amish community is not the most peaceful place in america, with its recent tragedy. I'd say the christians may have something tr...

paulb

Oh don't worry Karl, I will do exactly as you suggest. Amazon could offer me a open credit card to all the romatic/Beethoven/Sibelius sym cds I wanted. Wouldn't take the offer, not one cd. Free cds!, no thanks. I'm no materialist. If Elliot Cater's music sold for $100/cd, I'd most gladly pay it. wha...

paulb

welp i just listened to Belshazzar's Feast yesterday, after yrs of not hearing it, I need to scratch that offa s a fav frpm sibelius.
i 'm sure i still like Pelleas et Milisande. I'm sure of it.

paulb

the mets great Billy wagner just gave up 3 runs in the top 9th to St Louis. Goes to show you that the old windup let it fly at 100 MPH doesn't always win games. Every pitcher needs a few tricks, curves, sliders, changeups. Moto had Spezio 0-2 and gave him a center plate pitch which scored 2 runs. Wi...

paulb

We're all individuals, Dave! 8) Karl I'm glad you are accepting the individual point of view. Heck if the composers of the 20th century didn't become individuals they'd all be doing what Brahms and gang did, compose on beethoven's model. can you imagine a world with only music on a theme of Beethov...

paulb

Karl I wouldn't mind attendinga few concerts, provided the performances are up to whats on my cds.

paulb

Karl i haven't been to a concert in yrs. last time was in New Orleans, program was the Mozart 40th (# ?) and Beethoven's 9th. I can clearly understand why mahler made an attempt to make something of the 9th. Goodness! John, top Sibelius list, Kullervo, Lemminkaien Suite. Pelleas and Milesande and th...

paulb

And of course the violin concerto has its moments. Yes, Heifetz thought so, Kremer thinks so. But you know better, eh, Paul ? 8) In his day Heifetz recorded the best Sibeliusvc. Kremer's is not a fvaorite of mine. The one that really does it for me is the Oistrakh/Rozhdestvensky. btw Kremer is quit...

paulb

Beethoven's music is not misunderstood, it is badly performed :-) Paul , have you heard any of the Beethoven piano sonatas, or string quartets? Karl at one time I had the old vinyl copy of Wilhelm Backhaus playing 4 of Beethoven's late sonatas. Thats a pretty good performance by most critics. He ce...

paulb

We're all individuals, Dave! 8) Yes dave feels the Kullervo is an immature work from Sibelius. I hear it as one of his masterpieces. Its a deeply moving work and one of my favorite from Sibelius, next to his Lemmenakinen Suite. just to make clear here's a list of my favorites from Sibelius, all dee...

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American orchestras would make a mess of Pettersson

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