"Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

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Rach3
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"Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

Post by Rach3 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:13 am

Building a Library – Nicholas Kenyon on Beethoven’s Piano Concerto No.5 in E flat major, Op.73 ‘Emperor’

Recommended Recording:

Hannes Minnaar (piano)

Netherlands Symphonic Orchestra
Jan Willem de Vriend (conductor)
Channel CC72672
https://challengerecords.nativedsd.com/ ... certos-4-5

Other Recommended Recordings:

Classic

Claudio Arrau (piano)
Philharmonia Orchestra
Alceo Galliera (conductor)
EMI CDZ 7 67384

Later generation

Krystian Zimmerman
Wiener Philharmoniker
Leonard Bernstein
DG 435 470-2

Several other new recordings of Liszt, Mahler # 2,Bartok quartets,Tchaikovsky "Queen of Spades " , others, as well.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0002h72

maestrob
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Re: "Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

Post by maestrob » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:42 am

I have both the Arrau and the Zimmerman, and agree both are good. There also exists a 1945 STEREO recording with Gieseking/Rother recorded in Berlin. It's the only complete work the Nazis happened to record in stereo on magnetic tape before the regime fell, with limited fidelity, but the sound is quite advanced for its day and is distortion free. In the quieter moments of the first movement, you can hear Russian artillery firing in the distance!

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John F
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Re: "Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

Post by John F » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:16 pm

Recommended Recording:

Hannes Minnaar (piano)
Netherlands Symphonic Orchestra
Jan Willem de Vriend (conductor)
Channel CC72672
Unbelievable. And Nicholas Kenyon is someone to be taken very seriously - ordinarily.
John Francis

Rach3
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Re: "Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

Post by Rach3 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:15 pm

Here is another “Emperor” I’ve long admired , poor YT sound, but worth hearing, posted by Mark Ainley, who provides these YT notes :

“The famed Australian-born teacher, author, and pianist Ernest Hutcheson in a rare previously-unpublished concert recording of Beethoven's Emperor Concerto with the Chautauqua Symphony Orchestra conducted by Albert Stoessel - the likely date of the performance is July 24, 1938. Hutcheson wrote two important books, "The Literature of the Piano" and "The Elements of Piano Technique". He had studied under Carl Reinecke (who studied with Mendelssohn, Schumann and Liszt), Bernhard Stavenhagen (a pupil of Liszt) and Bruno Zwintscher (who studied under Moscheles, among others). He would become Dean and then President of the Juilliard School, and taught eminent pianists that included Bruce Hungerford and Abram Chasins. It is thanks to Hutcheson's support that Gershwin was able to have the seclusion he required at Chautauqua Institution in order to meet the deadline to finish his Piano Concerto in F. This unique broadcast recording - the only one I've come across of Hutcheson's playing (other than piano rolls) - features astounding pianism: a gorgeous polished sonority, marvellous variety of articulation, wonderfully shaped phrasing, attentive timing, and a whole host of other qualities that point to exceptional musicianship and mastery of the finest levels of technique.”


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3m-iNqVuNk

John F
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Re: "Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

Post by John F » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:04 pm

This is a big performance. It's also a bit old-fashioned, with some rolled chords that wouldn't pass today, but I don't mind. I have his book on the piano repertoire but never thought of him as a solo pianist himself, which he certainly was. Glad you found this and provided the link.
John Francis

Rach3
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Re: "Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

Post by Rach3 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:25 pm

John F wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:04 pm
This is a big performance. It's also a bit old-fashioned, with some rolled chords that wouldn't pass today, but I don't mind. I have his book on the piano repertoire but never thought of him as a solo pianist himself, which he certainly was. Glad you found this and provided the link.
Glad you enjoyed. So many today are non-descript. Hutcheson’s is great.

barney
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Re: "Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

Post by barney » Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:47 pm

My collection contains more than 50 accounts of the Emperor, though I am sure that pales into insignificance compared with Lance. So it's almost impossible to single out favourites. Nevertheless, I am going to nominate Wilhelm Kempff, Edwin Fischer, Alfred Brendel, Emil Gilels and Clifford Curzon.

Rach3
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Re: "Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

Post by Rach3 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:40 am

Pierre-Laurent Aimard live “Emperor” with RCO under Francois-Xavier Roth in Amsterdam Jan. 31, 2019:

https://www.nporadio4.nl/concerten/8575 ... bouworkest

maestrob
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Re: "Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

Post by maestrob » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:06 am

barney wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:47 pm
My collection contains more than 50 accounts of the Emperor, though I am sure that pales into insignificance compared with Lance. So it's almost impossible to single out favourites. Nevertheless, I am going to nominate Wilhelm Kempff, Edwin Fischer, Alfred Brendel, Emil Gilels and Clifford Curzon.
50 versions! Barney, you outrank me by several miles! :) That said, I wonder which of the Kempff Emperors you prefer: there are 3, all of them now available in the set pictured below:

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barney
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Re: "Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

Post by barney » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:06 am

Yes, I have that set, Brian. It is really fine.
One of the first versions I really loved was the Leitner/Kempff, and later I got to love the Van Kempen, which might be more poetic, but less "authoritative". I'm sorry to say, I don't really know the Peter Raabe. I didn't play it when I got the set because I was put off by the 1941 date of the recording. Have you listened?

barney
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Re: "Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

Post by barney » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:07 am

PS, I've just finished cataloguing the 142-CD Rubinstein set, which has several more Emperors. Next I will listen to his account with Toscanini. Promising?

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Re: "Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

Post by John F » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:32 am

barney wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:07 am
PS, I've just finished cataloguing the 142-CD Rubinstein set, which has several more Emperors. Next I will listen to his account with Toscanini. Promising?
Not just promising, extraordinary, because Rubinstein and Toscanini never performed that concerto together. Their one collaboration was in the concerto no. 3 in C minor, published by RCA Victor. Though Toscanini conducted the Emperor Concerto once, with Horowitz and the New York Philharmonic in 1933, no broadcast recording exists. I wish it did!
John Francis

maestrob
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Re: "Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

Post by maestrob » Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:42 am

barney wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:06 am
Yes, I have that set, Brian. It is really fine.
One of the first versions I really loved was the Leitner/Kempff, and later I got to love the Van Kempen, which might be more poetic, but less "authoritative". I'm sorry to say, I don't really know the Peter Raabe. I didn't play it when I got the set because I was put off by the 1941 date of the recording. Have you listened?
By 1941, Germans had been using magnetic tape to record their radio programs as well as music for nearly a decade, IIRC. Yes, I would recommend that you listen to Kempff's 1941 restored Emperor, as the sound is quite superior for its time. I also recommend the 1945 stereo Gieseking mentioned above.

barney
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Re: "Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

Post by barney » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:48 pm

John F wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:32 am
barney wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:07 am
PS, I've just finished cataloguing the 142-CD Rubinstein set, which has several more Emperors. Next I will listen to his account with Toscanini. Promising?
Not just promising, extraordinary, because Rubinstein and Toscanini never performed that concerto together. Their one collaboration was in the concerto no. 3 in C minor, published by RCA Victor. Though Toscanini conducted the Emperor Concerto once, with Horowitz and the New York Philharmonic in 1933, no broadcast recording exists. I wish it did!
You are quite right, John. I just checked, and it is indeed the third concerto. My apologies. How about I listen to that instead.

John F
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Re: "Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

Post by John F » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:52 pm

maestrob wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:42 am
barney wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:06 am
Yes, I have that set, Brian. It is really fine.
One of the first versions I really loved was the Leitner/Kempff, and later I got to love the Van Kempen, which might be more poetic, but less "authoritative". I'm sorry to say, I don't really know the Peter Raabe. I didn't play it when I got the set because I was put off by the 1941 date of the recording. Have you listened?
By 1941, Germans had been using magnetic tape to record their radio programs as well as music for nearly a decade, IIRC. Yes, I would recommend that you listen to Kempff's 1941 restored Emperor, as the sound is quite superior for its time. I also recommend the 1945 stereo Gieseking mentioned above.
I may be wrong about this, but I believe the Magnetophon was used only by the German Radio, not the German record companies, which continued recording direct to disc until after the war. Can't find a reference to settle this one way or the other.

Of Kempff's Beethoven concerto recordings, I like the monaural versions with van Kempen best. Kempff's playing seems to me warmer and more spontaneous than in the stereo remake. I haven't heard the earliest recordings on 78s.
John Francis

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Re: "Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

Post by Lance » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:52 am

I have so many Emperor concertos that I am ashamed to say how many. I love the work. It was the most listened recording on LP by me when I was very young. And, of course, there are many grand recordings of it. Rubinstein has recorded it commercially on three occasions, and, as great a pianist as he was, he was never given enough credit for his Beethoven. His Chopin always won out. For me, Rubinstein made one of the most convincing recordings of the Emperor with the Symphony of the Air under Krips. The other most striking and memorable performances were by Solomon (EMI), Gould/Stokowski (for something quite off the beaten path, but still has something to say), Serkin, Casadesus, Fleisher, and of course, many present-day pianists. If a recording by an artist is going to be engraved just once, then trying to locate the performance for the desert island might be an easier task than you think. Artur Schnabel, too, as well as Edwin Fischer immediately come to mind. However, the blessing we have is that we can have as many as we wish on recording (and can afford), thus experiencing a wide array of interpretations of the same piece of music.
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Re: "Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

Post by John F » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:19 am

Lance, have you listened yet to the Ernest Hutcheson performance linked by Rach3 a few days ago? I'd be interested in your opinion, and Donald Isler's since Hutcheson had a Hungerford connection. The link again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3m-iNqVuNk
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Re: "Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

Post by Lance » Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:47 pm

Hi John - and YES, I did and was impressed with Hutcheson. It was impeccable playing and truly had something to say. Do you know if this ever appeared on a CD? I have Donald Isler's/KASP DVD of Hungerford playing Beethoven's Fourth Piano Concerto and hope to spend some time with this soon. Like Australian singers, the country has also given us a number of superlative pianists.
John F wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:19 am
Lance, have you listened yet to the Ernest Hutcheson performance linked by Rach3 a few days ago? I'd be interested in your opinion, and Donald Isler's since Hutcheson had a Hungerford connection. The link again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3m-iNqVuNk
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

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John F
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Re: "Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

Post by John F » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:34 pm

I don't know whether the performance has been published in any form other than on YouTube. But my guess is that somewhere it has been - otherwise, where did the uploader find it? Maybe someone at the performing arts library can tell me on Friday, though they don't have it in the sound archive.

Speaking of the uploader, who calls him/herself The Piano Files, he's put a lot of interesting piano recordings online - see here:

https://www.youtube.com/user/markarama23/videos

Keep scrolling down the page - it's endless, and some of the most remarkable items are well down the list.
John Francis

Rach3
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Re: "Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

Post by Rach3 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:26 pm

John F wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:34 pm
Speaking of the uploader, who calls him/herself The Piano Files, he's put a lot of interesting piano recordings online - see here:
https://www.youtube.com/user/markarama23/videos
The uploader, Mark Ainley,has a website, perhaps a blog as well, is an expert on late pianist Dinu Lipatti, and I believe has contributed assistance on several historical recordings of various pianists for various labels.

http://www.markainley.com/

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Re: "Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

Post by barney » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:35 pm

So I played the Rubinstein/Toscanini Beethoven 3, and was not so impressed. I sometimes find Toscanini too driven and relentless, and I don't think he let Rubinstein breathe as he does in other performances.
Back to the Emperor. Today I will try to listen to the Krips recording Lance recommended.

Rach3
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Re: "Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

Post by Rach3 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:59 pm

barney wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:35 pm
So I played the Rubinstein/Toscanini Beethoven 3, and was not so impressed. I sometimes find Toscanini too driven and relentless, and I don't think he let Rubinstein breathe as he does in other performances.
Back to the Emperor. Today I will try to listen to the Krips recording Lance recommended.
The Rubinstein/Krips " Emperor ",ca.1956,is one of my fav recordings of the work ( along with Hutcheson's, and Serkin/Bernstein ). Rubinstein "breathes".
In fairness, # 3 is a very different work. I also have the Rubinstein/Toscanini # 3,and Rubinstein may have wanted a darker sound,less rubato.The LvB 3rd is my least fav of the LvB PC's, although still a great work.
Last edited by Rach3 on Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

John F
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Re: "Emperor" recordings compared by BBCR3

Post by John F » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:14 pm

Rach3 wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:26 pm
John F wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:34 pm
Speaking of the uploader, who calls him/herself The Piano Files, he's put a lot of interesting piano recordings online - see here:
https://www.youtube.com/user/markarama23/videos
The uploader, Mark Ainley,has a website, perhaps a blog as well, is an expert on late pianist Dinu Lipatti, and I believe has contributed assistance on several historical recordings of various pianists for various labels.

http://www.markainley.com/
Thanks for this. Among other things, Ainsley's site includes a link to a complete and exemplary discography of Edwin Fischer:

http://www.thepianofiles.com/wp-content ... ithson.pdf

Ainsley has gotten hold of many unusual and unpublished recordings and names his sources for some of them. No doubt the Beethoven concerto with Hutcheson has a similar source.
John Francis

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