The Theme Song of Mahler: RAMBLIN' ROSE

[dulcinea]

Why is Mahler so schwatzhaft=garrulous? Why do his symphonies ramble on and on and ON? All too often the symphonic movements of M remind me of oranges and grapefruits that have been squeezed and squeezed and SQUEEZED until there is not a drop of juice left--that is, the melodic material is so overworked and belabored with constant unnecessary repetition and overelaboration that, by the time the long overdue ending arrives, the material has simply died of exhaustion. That's why I prefer his songs, which show an admirable gift for economy and conciseness that would have greatly benefitted his symphonies.

[Wallingford]

Lord! When I saw your thread's title, I thought you must've been referring to Mahler's (or his wife's) sex life!!!

Really, though, you DO have some of my sympathy. At this stage in my life, I think I can finally tolerate a whole Mahler symphony......not much more. His Word isn't Holy Writ to me (as with others).

[Ralph]

Sorry, Dulcinea, but Mahler's symphonies don't ever sound to me as you describe them. But you might want to see the little-known movie, "Rambling Rose," with Robert Duvall and Laura Dern.

[RebLem]

Good Lord! We leave such a rushed life as it is. Must we now insist that our composers be concise and efficient? As far as I am concerned, efficiency and conciseness are for the writers of Presidential Daily Briefings and corporate CFOs, not composers, unless they're writing the theme music for a TV show.

Hey, why don't we just edit the scherzo of the Beethoven 9th down to the snippet that used to be the theme music of the Huntley-Brinkley Report? It sure would make the symphony go faster.

[pizza]

Mahler once famously said:

“A symphony must be like the world. It must contain everything.”

He followed his own advice!

[dulcinea]

Mahler is often compared to Bruckner, and I don't see why. While M often seems to be dawdling aimlessly, the symphonies of B have an energy and drive to them that gives you the clear impression that that music has a purpose and a destination, and you feel compelled to follow along till the very end.

[anasazi]

I have long felt the same, that Bruckner and Mahler did not share that much in common (except for rather long symphonies). Bruckner tried at least to conform to his own expanded sonata-allegro form, and with very many elements of baraoque organ improvisation tossed in.

I think the comparison with Mahler should be with Richard Strauss. They were friends, competitors and sometimes mutual admirers. I've read that Strauss kept the score of Mahler's #2 on his piano. Of course, both were amazing orchestrators. But don't Ein Heldenleben and the Resurrection Symphony have more in common with each other, then either of them do with anything by Bruckner?

And I think there is a part of what we think of as 'classical' classical music where conciseness and economy matter a great deal. Just as in poetry. It is not a matter of how long the work lasts, but how long it stays with you.

[pizza]

I don't find Mahler's music "aimless" or "dawdling" at all. It's obvious to me where he's heading and repeated hearings always reveal more of his musical genius. Each one of his symphonies is a masterpiece. There isn't a wasted note in any of them. Throwing Bruckner into the pot obscures the issue. They were as different in their musical thinking as night and day, but both were great composers of originality and substance. Length is irrelevant same as it is to the importance of a classic novel such as Tolstoy's 'War and Peace'. In their own ways they each require concentration and an attention span worthy of their art.

[Ralph]

I don't find Mahler's music "aimless" or "dawdling" at all. It's obvious to me where he's heading and repeated hearings always reveal more of his musical genius. Each one of his symphonies is a masterpiece. There isn't a wasted note in any of them. Throwing Bruckner into the pot obscures the issue. They were as different in their musical thinking as night and day, but both were great composers of originality and substance. Length is irrelevant same as it is to the importance of a classic novel such as Tolstoy's 'War and Peace'. In their own ways they each require concentration and an attention span worthy of their art.

*****

Well said.

[Ted]

But you might want to see the little-known movie, "Rambling Rose," with Robert Duvall and Laura Dern.

Ralph Bravo
That is a splendid secret of a movie…that scene with Dern and the young lad-- on second thought