classical songs.

eoinme · Post by **eoinme** » Mon May 14, 2007 1:16 am

Hi, I'm a new member and I joined primarily to learn something about classical vocal music, particularly songs. I live in Kiev Ukraine and have no problem buying the works of the big names, and listening to them in the concert halls. It is virtually impossible, however, to buy vocal works and I really don't know where to start on the internet as I know little of this area. So I'm looking for advice on what to look for and where to get it. I'm interested in choral, opera, arias etc. but more than these songs by good composers, sung by good singers, male or female.

Look forward to your replies.
Thanks
Eoin Meagher

Brendan · Post by **Brendan** » Mon May 14, 2007 1:26 am

The collection of Schubert lieder with Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau and Gerald Moore is essential, IMHO. But the question is vast! Do you prefer early music, Baroque, Classical . . .?

TheFlayinDutchmn · Post by **TheFlayinDutchmn** » Mon May 14, 2007 1:44 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-oeGW4VNQ0

haha, wonder how Schubert would have reacted to that one. Have a look around on YouTube, you might be surprised what you can find and explore there, uncultured though it might be.. and welcome to the forum, what's your language?

Cheers,
nick

jbuck919 · Post by **jbuck919** » Mon May 14, 2007 5:02 am

eoinme wrote:Hi, I'm a new member and I joined primarily to learn something about classical vocal music, particularly songs. I live in Kiev Ukraine and have no problem buying the works of the big names, and listening to them in the concert halls. It is virtually impossible, however, to buy vocal works and I really don't know where to start on the internet as I know little of this area. So I'm looking for advice on what to look for and where to get it. I'm interested in choral, opera, arias etc. but more than these songs by good composers, sung by good singers, male or female.

Look forward to your replies.
Thanks
Eoin Meagher

Heartiest welcome to the site. Brendan was correct in that you have asked a very big question and to help you we need clarification. For instance, if you are sophisticated enough to be on the Internet posting in fluent English from the Ukraine, then you obviously must already know about online sources for CDs such as, to pick one out of the hat, Amazon.com. Perhaps if you simply stated one or two pieces that have interested you we could take it from there.

John F · Post by **John F** » Mon May 14, 2007 7:40 am

Just to help in finding the kind of songs you may be looking for:

The leading Russian composers of "art songs," often called "romances," include Glinka, Musorgsky, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff, and Shostakovich, and there are also songs by Dargomijsky, Borodin, Rubinstein, Rimsky-Korsakov...

Lieder (German for "songs") are the core international repertory for art songs. The leading song composers include Schubert, Schumann, Brahms, Wolf, Mahler, and Strauss, and many other famous composers wrote a number of Lieder: Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Mendelssohn, Liszt, Wagner, Schoenberg, Berg, Webern...

The French art song literature (called "mélodies"; "chansons" are popular and folk songs) is very large. The leading composers include Duparc, Fauré, Debussy, Ravel, and Poulenc, while other famous composers of mélodies include Chopin, Berlioz, Chausson, Gounod, Saint-Saëns...

And then there are the Americans, the British, the Italians, the Spaniards, the Finns...

And this is just for starters. It's hard to find a nation that doesn't have a literature of art songs, or a composer who never wrote at least some songs.

johnshade · Post by **johnshade** » Mon May 14, 2007 9:44 am

~
You will not find more beautiful music than the "Four Last Songs" (German: Vier letzte Lieder) by the German composer, Richard Strauss. His other songs (lieder) are also wonderful, especially Opus 10 and Opus 27. His songs are primarily for soprano; some accompanied by orchestra, others by piano.
JS

Chalkperson · Post by **Chalkperson** » Mon May 14, 2007 9:47 am

Hey There eonime...Welcome,

John F and others have answered pretty thoroughly, there are also songs by Syzmanowski, there is a four CD set on Channel Classics, he is Polish and he is a 20th Century Composer...but for starters and also because Slava passed away just two weeks ago I would start with a 4cd set on EMI by Galina Vishnevskaya of Russian Songs and Arias, also another question, are you interested in the Male Voice or Female Voice or both...

johnshade · Post by **johnshade** » Mon May 14, 2007 9:54 am

johnshade wrote:~
You will not find more beautiful music than the "Four Last Songs" (German: Vier letzte Lieder) by the German composer, Richard Strauss. His other songs (lieder) are also wonderful, especially Opus 10 and Opus 27. His songs are primarily for soprano; some accompanied by orchestra, others by piano.
JS

Beim Schlafengehen (one of the Four Last Songs)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJqwuFOU-Wk

Chalkperson · Post by **Chalkperson** » Mon May 14, 2007 11:28 am

johnshade wrote:~
You will not find more beautiful music than the "Four Last Songs" (German: Vier letzte Lieder) by the German composer, Richard Strauss. His other songs (lieder) are also wonderful, especially Opus 10 and Opus 27. His songs are primarily for soprano; some accompanied by orchestra, others by piano.
JS

John's absolutely right about the Strauss songs, try the Elisabeth Schwartzkopf/George Szell cd...also the Anne Sophie Von Otter Schubert recital disc from 1997 is a great starting point, as for a male voice you can buy virtually any disc by Ian Bostridge, they are all really good, also he has Shubert Leider discs that are interspersed with Piano Sonatas played by Leif Ove Andsnes...
You could also try the Schuber Song Cycles with Peter Schrier and Andras Schiff...a couple other Male voices you should like would be Thomas Quasthoff and Mathias Goerne

lmpower · Post by **lmpower** » Mon May 14, 2007 12:36 pm

Elizabeth Schwarzkopf was one of the best singers. You might want to try her album "Songs you Love." It gives a good sample of several of the best songwriters.

Post by **Corlyss_D** » Mon May 14, 2007 1:27 pm

eoinme wrote:Hi, I'm a new member and I joined primarily to learn something about classical vocal music, particularly songs. I live in Kiev Ukraine and have no problem buying the works of the big names, and listening to them in the concert halls. It is virtually impossible, however, to buy vocal works and I really don't know where to start on the internet as I know little of this area. So I'm looking for advice on what to look for and where to get it. I'm interested in choral, opera, arias etc. but more than these songs by good composers, sung by good singers, male or female.

Look forward to your replies.
Thanks
Eoin Meagher

Welcome, Eoin. Okay. I gotta ask. How did someone with such an Irish sounding name land up in Ukraine? I'm sure Lance will want to talk with you - his relatives came from Ukraine.

Anyway, since most are lobbying for the German repertoire, I have to speak up for the French. Get anything you can by Susan Graham, esp. her albums of Hahn. Anything in Graham Johnson's cycles - Schubert, Faure, Saint-Saens, Hahn, Schumann, Chausson, English songs, etc. And anything accompanied by Gerald Moore, which includes the premier voices of his day. I realize this is a left-handed way of going about it, but it is more efficient from my stand point.

johnshade · Post by **johnshade** » Mon May 14, 2007 1:35 pm

My favorite soprano in lieder is the late, great Lucia Popp,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhdN1x4k ... ed&search=

johnshade · Post by **johnshade** » Mon May 14, 2007 1:58 pm

Corlyss_D wrote:I have to speak up for the French.

The great soprano, Janet Baker (British) sings Berlioz (French):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3IqNUoMtPM

TheFlayinDutchmn · Post by **TheFlayinDutchmn** » Mon May 14, 2007 2:27 pm

johnshade wrote:My favorite soprano in lieder is the late, great Lucia Popp,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhdN1x4k ... ed&search=

I strongly second that, and third it, and fourth it, and fi…

Cheers,
nick

Post by **Corlyss_D** » Mon May 14, 2007 3:28 pm

johnshade wrote:
Corlyss_D wrote:I have to speak up for the French.
The great soprano, Janet Baker (British) sings Berlioz (French):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3IqNUoMtPM

That reminds me. If you can still get it, pick up the Steber Columbia Masterworks of Berlioz's Nuits d'Ete. THE best interpretation in a very uncrowded field.

John Shade wrote:My favorite soprano in lieder is the late, great Lucia Popp,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhdN1x4k ... ed&search=

I wouldn't quibble with the sentiment, but I'd amend it slightly to say that she was one of the top 4 or 5 Mozart and Strauss interpreters of her generation. She's not that well known for her Lieder singing in general. Your clip is painfully beautiful - elegiac Strauss by a soprano whose died aguishingly young. Any idea when this was made?

I have posted these before but I think it's appropriate to do so in response to Eoin's question:

IMO the most beautiful music ever composed for two voices:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd5nFd3u ... ed&search=

Equally beautiful music for solo voice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3NItbi7PDY

RebLem · Post by **RebLem** » Mon May 14, 2007 3:57 pm

Of course, the greatest single composer for the human voice in all history, both as to quality and quantity, was J.S. Bach. A number of complete sets of the cantatas are out there. I have the Rilling hanssler set. The complete works run to 182 CDs, of which the sacred contatas comprise 60 CDs, and the secular cantatas another 8. Then, of course, there are the great vocal works--the Christmas Oratorio, the B Minor Mass, the St. Matthew Passion, the St. John Passion. Be forewarned, though, that the Rilling set is a pretty old fashioned set and is not done by an original instruments group, and sometimes even departs from the HIP aesthetic. Some other sets are more scrupulous in these matters, in varying degrees. Most use women for the high parts, a few, like Harnoncourt, do not. A fair number of sets observe most of the OIP strictures except the prohibition on women.

Lately, the Brilliant label has specialized in doing complete this and that, including the complete a capella choral works of Brahms (8 CDs), the complete a capella choral works of Mendelssohn (10 CDs) and the complete secular choral works of Schumann (4 CDs).

I certainly second Corlyss's recommendations that you explore sets of the complete songs of Gabriel Faure and Reynaldo Hahn. They are gorgeous music.

Then, of course, you have the Haydn Masses (a complete set is available on Decca in excellent recordings), the Mozart Masses and other choral works, the Beethoven choral works, esp the Missa Solemnis, the Mendelssohn oratorios Paulus and Elijah, and many others.

Chalkperson · Post by **Chalkperson** » Mon May 14, 2007 4:39 pm

RebLem wrote:I certainly second Corlyss's recommendations that you explore sets of the complete songs of Gabriel Faure and Reynaldo Hahn. They are gorgeous music.

I think Reynaldo Hahn is very underrated, his salon music is also very fine...

Post by **Corlyss_D** » Mon May 14, 2007 5:18 pm

Chalkperson wrote:
RebLem wrote:I certainly second Corlyss's recommendations that you explore sets of the complete songs of Gabriel Faure and Reynaldo Hahn. They are gorgeous music.
I think Reynaldo Hahn is very underrated

When I first heard the Martyn Hill/Graham Johnson recording, it took my breath away. I spent most of the summer of 1984 listening to it paired with Linda Ronstadt's What's New?. As fine and dreamy an indulgence as I can think of. 20 years later, a friend tried to persuade me to listen to the Susan Graham recording. I was skeptical, thinking a woman could never sing those songs the way they should be sung. My friend took me for a long drive and that was the only disc she had to play (clever that, no?) When I heard Susan Graham, I was completely blown away. Now hers is the only version I listen to, although I still love the Hill/Graham recording because it was the first one I ever heard. A Chloris, with it's paraphrase of Bach; Tyndaris; Dans la nuit; Fumee; Phyllis; Je me souviens; and the incredibly beautiful L'Heure exquise all unique and unsurpassed in wistfulness and understated yearning.

pizza · Post by **pizza** » Tue May 15, 2007 2:42 am

Two superb recordings of American art songs and a must have for anyone who enjoys the genre:

"Love's Secret and Other Songs by American Composers"
The American composers series -- Vox Box, CDX 5129 (1996)
Program notes by Jack Beeson.
Artists: Eleanor Steber, soprano, Mildred Miller, mezzo-soprano, Donald Gramm, bass-baritone, and John McCollum, tenor

Includes songs by David Diamond, Vincent Persichetti, Irving Fine, William Flanagan, Ned Rorem, Charles Ives, Douglas Moore, Jack Beeson, Paul Bowles, John Edmunds, John Alden Carpenter, Ernst Bacon, Samuel Barber, William Bergsma, Charles T. Griffes, John La Montaine, Virgil Thomson, Edward A. MacDowell, Theodore Chanler, Aaron Copland, Robert Ward, John Gruen, Daniel Pinkham, Ben Weber, Henry Cowell.

"Songs of America"; Jan DeGaetani, mezzo-soprano & Gilbert Kalish, piano, Nonesuch ZK 79178 (1992)

28 songs by American composers covering a wide spectrum of American song writing, and including works by Stephen Foster, Ruth Crawford, Elliott Carter, Charles Cadman, Milton Babbitt, Warren Benson, George Crumb, Irving Fine, Carrie Jacobs Bond, Sergius Kagen, Mario Davidovsky, Wm. Schuman, Charles Ives, Rebecca Clarke, Ned Rorem, Samuel Adler, Stanley Walden, Aaron Jay Kernis, William Bolcom, Aaron Copland and John Cage.

Chalkperson · Post by **Chalkperson** » Tue May 15, 2007 11:47 am

pizza wrote:Two superb recordings of American art songs and a must have for anyone who enjoys the genre:

"Love's Secret and Other Songs by American Composers"
The American composers series -- Vox Box, CDX 5129 (1996)
Program notes by Jack Beeson.
Artists: Eleanor Steber, soprano, Mildred Miller, mezzo-soprano, Donald Gramm, bass-baritone, and John McCollum, tenor

Includes songs by David Diamond, Vincent Persichetti, Irving Fine, William Flanagan, Ned Rorem, Charles Ives, Douglas Moore, Jack Beeson, Paul Bowles, John Edmunds, John Alden Carpenter, Ernst Bacon, Samuel Barber, William Bergsma, Charles T. Griffes, John La Montaine, Virgil Thomson, Edward A. MacDowell, Theodore Chanler, Aaron Copland, Robert Ward, John Gruen, Daniel Pinkham, Ben Weber, Henry Cowell.

"Songs of America"; Jan DeGaetani, mezzo-soprano & Gilbert Kalish, piano, Nonesuch ZK 79178 (1992)

28 songs by American composers covering a wide spectrum of American song writing, and including works by Stephen Foster, Ruth Crawford, Elliott Carter, Charles Cadman, Milton Babbitt, Warren Benson, George Crumb, Irving Fine, Carrie Jacobs Bond, Sergius Kagen, Mario Davidovsky, Wm. Schuman, Charles Ives, Rebecca Clarke, Ned Rorem, Samuel Adler, Stanley Walden, Aaron Jay Kernis, William Bolcom, Aaron Copland and John Cage.

Wow, I certainly did not realise just how many American Composers there are, I had only heard of about half of these...

pizza · Post by **pizza** » Tue May 15, 2007 2:51 pm

Chalkperson wrote:
pizza wrote:Two superb recordings of American art songs and a must have for anyone who enjoys the genre:

"Love's Secret and Other Songs by American Composers"
The American composers series -- Vox Box, CDX 5129 (1996)
Program notes by Jack Beeson.
Artists: Eleanor Steber, soprano, Mildred Miller, mezzo-soprano, Donald Gramm, bass-baritone, and John McCollum, tenor

Includes songs by David Diamond, Vincent Persichetti, Irving Fine, William Flanagan, Ned Rorem, Charles Ives, Douglas Moore, Jack Beeson, Paul Bowles, John Edmunds, John Alden Carpenter, Ernst Bacon, Samuel Barber, William Bergsma, Charles T. Griffes, John La Montaine, Virgil Thomson, Edward A. MacDowell, Theodore Chanler, Aaron Copland, Robert Ward, John Gruen, Daniel Pinkham, Ben Weber, Henry Cowell.

"Songs of America"; Jan DeGaetani, mezzo-soprano & Gilbert Kalish, piano, Nonesuch ZK 79178 (1992)

28 songs by American composers covering a wide spectrum of American song writing, and including works by Stephen Foster, Ruth Crawford, Elliott Carter, Charles Cadman, Milton Babbitt, Warren Benson, George Crumb, Irving Fine, Carrie Jacobs Bond, Sergius Kagen, Mario Davidovsky, Wm. Schuman, Charles Ives, Rebecca Clarke, Ned Rorem, Samuel Adler, Stanley Walden, Aaron Jay Kernis, William Bolcom, Aaron Copland and John Cage.
Wow, I certainly did not realise just how many American Composers there are, I had only heard of about half of these...

I'm sure you know there are many more than that, including some who are quite well-known and whose works are in the standard repertoire. Just off the top of my head, there's Leonard Bernstein, Walter Piston, Randall Thompson, Deems Taylor, Paul Creston, Gian Carlo Menotti, Elie Siegmeister, Morton Gould, Don Gillis, Carl Ruggles, Leroy Robertson, Edward MacDowell, Louis Moreau Gottschalk, John Adams, Philip Glass, Steve Reich, Morton Feldman, Harold Shapero, Bernard Herrmann; the list is endless!

Post by **Corlyss_D** » Wed May 16, 2007 2:01 am

Chalkperson wrote:Wow, I certainly did not realise just how many American Composers there are, I had only heard of about half of these...

Chalkie, step into the Pub and take a look at the American Songbook thread.

pizza · Post by **pizza** » Wed May 16, 2007 4:41 am

How could I have forgotten Roy Harris, the guy who really put American symphonic music on the map with his 3rd Symphony!

Chalkperson · Post by **Chalkperson** » Wed May 16, 2007 8:43 am

pizza wrote:How could I have forgotten Roy Harris, the guy who really put American symphonic music on the map with his 3rd Symphony!

Roy Harris's Third I do have on CD and I had heard of most of those on your second list, 13 out of 19 but I for sure will go to have a quiet drink today...

eoinme · Post by **eoinme** » Thu May 17, 2007 5:32 am

Thanks everybody for your replies and advice. I guess part of the problem is that I don't really know what I'm looking for. Your suggestions and especially the links have given me somewhere to start and get some samples so I can try to rectify this.

As some of you have asked I'll tell you a little about myself. I'm Irish but I live and work in Kiev as a literature teacher in an International School. I've been here for 7 years now and I'm married to a Ukrainian. I'd like to say my first language is Irish but that would be a lie. It is of course English.

Thanks again.

Eoin Meagher

slofstra · Post by **slofstra** » Thu May 17, 2007 8:28 am

As you' re Irish, are you familiar with the wonderful "Irish" tenor, John McDermott? He's actually Canadian and was born in Scotland, but it's close enough if you're Dutch. Anyway, he's not considered classical but very popular here in Ontario. Sings in the tradition of John McCormack, but he's also uncovered decent recent material.

You might also appreciate the wonderful, clear pearly voice of Emma Kirkby, very much tapped into the British tradition.

A nice starter selection on this double CD, including: Bach, Monteverdi, Purcell and Handel.

Post by **Lance** » Fri May 18, 2007 11:22 am

Dear Eoin:

First of all, welcome to Classical Music Guide! I've waited a bit to respond to your question, and you've already had considerable good advice from people here. Yours is a complex question. I have long been interested in German lieder and art songs of all nations. Having collected recordings since 1959, I have spent considerable time in assembling a huge range of lieder/art-song recordings from the most historical great singers on up through the present time. I've been trying to figure how to respond to this question, i.e., where to start for a new collector. I can advise immediately that singers such as Elisabeth Schumann, Gerard Husch, Heinrich Schlusnus, Anton Dermota, Alexander Kipnis, Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, Hans Hotter, Gerard Souzay, Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, and Elly Ameling are good places to start as these were among the most noted of singers of this literature. The variety of material is enormous, especially those recordings made during the LP era that have been transferred now to CD. That, alone, will lead you into finding songs and cycles by Mozart, Schubert, Schumann, Wolf, Strauss and the many other composers who were so noted for their song literature who lived during the period of great German lieder writing. Franz Liszt also wrote some outstanding songs, as did Franz Abt, Beethoven, von Weber, and especially Carl Loewe, the latter of whose songs has been (and continues to be) issued by CPO in Germany. And don't forget the lieder of Gustav Mahler, including the two song cycles, Kindertotenlieder and Songs of a Wayfarer, the latter usually performed with orchestra.

I might add that ANY recordings you seek with pianist Gerald Moore as the collaborating pianist is top of the line. The piano accompaniments are as important as the vocal lines.

Membran has issued a 66-CD set of historical lieder recordings with the exceptional pianist, Michael Raucheisen, that is available for very low prices (like $2 a disc/USD or less) if you do some careful shopping. That would give you a representative and fairly complete knowledge of lieder singing when it was at its peak. Just a suggestion.

Post by **Corlyss_D** » Fri May 18, 2007 1:51 pm

eoinme wrote:As some of you have asked I'll tell you a little about myself. I'm Irish but I live and work in Kiev as a literature teacher in an International School. I've been here for 7 years now and I'm married to a Ukrainian. I'd like to say my first language is Irish but that would be a lie. It is of course English.

Thanks again.

Eoin Meagher

I assume your first name is pronounced like the English Ian. How do you pronounce your last name? We had a very famous Meagher here who lead the Irish Brigade in the Civil War. I know it's not pronounced like my first guess, MEE-Gur. So how do you say it? MAY-er?

eoinme · Post by **eoinme** » Mon May 21, 2007 1:47 am

Thanks Lance, and everyone else. I'll go looking for that membran collection you mentioned. I've listened to some of the samples given through the links and could only wonder why I haven't made the effort to do this sooner; wonderful, so much more intimate than the grand orchestral pieces.

Corlyss, I pronounce my name 'O-when Mar' though technically speaking the surname should be pronounced in Irish as 'Mach-air'. Thomas Francis Meagher, the Irish Brigadier you mentioned, is a distant relative.

Eoin

Post by **Corlyss_D** » Mon May 21, 2007 2:52 am

eoinme wrote:wonderful, so much more intimate than the grand orchestral pieces.

I can't wait for you to become interested in chamber music . . . .

Corlyss, I pronounce my name 'O-when Mar' though technically speaking the surname should be pronounced in Irish as 'Mach-air'.

Thanks. So unnerving when the sensible consonants decide they don't want to be pronounced like they look.

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