[COMM] (Classical music CD catalog software): Magnificat

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Magnificat
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Post by Magnificat » Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:48 pm

Robert,
I have read with more attention your previous post and probably we must clarify some other concepts.

It's absolutely not mandatory to download the setup file every time.
Normally, it's sufficient to save the file anywhere, by choosing Save from the dialog box, and then run the setup from there.
But I realize you haven't ideas about files and folders managements in your operating system, and perhaps the shortest way is to adopt your method anyway.

Put the focus on the following concept. When you comes to this point:
I get a dialog box that says “Completing the Magnificat Setup Wizard.” It has two checked boxes which one has an option to uncheck—View Eula.rtf, which I uncheck, as I already have a copy from previous runs, and “Launch Magnificat” which I keep checked. Then I hit Finish at the bottom.
...you must uncheck the "Launch Magnificat" option.

At this point you must find the way of putting the two license files in its folder. Read my previous post carefully, but note: I cannot teach the fundamentals. You must aid yourself.

I hope that you can resolve the problem soon.

Regards

RebLem
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Post by RebLem » Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:39 pm

Magnificat wrote:
'support@colectorslab.com' on 6/7/2007 2:36 PM
Perhaps you have eaten one “L”....... :roll:
:D :evil: :P AHA!!!!!!
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Post by slofstra » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:06 am

ch1525 wrote:Well, yes, but I got a really good deal on it!!!

Anyway, I'd like to hear more thoughts on this software from Slofstra and FlayinDutchman since we all discussed cataloging at such length recently.

Do you think this program is a step in the right direction? I really like how it has brought somewhat of a collaborative effort into play. Of course, there is still plenty of room for improvement.
The program looks promising from what I've read on the web. Reliability of operation is one thing that cannot be evaluated at the outset. It'll be interesting to see how 'reblem' gets on with it. I don't know if I would switch to 'magnificat' because I'm so deeply embedded into my own program. My main concern would be that I would lose the paper reporting system I've put a lot of work into (If the file system was open and offered ODBC I could try to preserve my MS Access reports).

The appealing aspects involve the ability to download complete repertoire for given composers. My concern there is that I employ a rigorous naming convention scheme - I wouldn't want to import something that didn't fit.

But these are personal caveats unique to my personal situation. Certainly for someone that has NO cataloguing program the considerations are quite different. The fact that the program has a strong importing and exporting feature provides strong downside protection. If you end up not liking the program or find something better later, you can always export out your cataloguing work and import into some other program. Actually, this is an essential feature - in all likelihood the data that is so time consuming to assemble and key in will outlive the program and you need a method of preserving your catalogue beyond the life of the program.

The one feature that would convince me to switch would be the use of a common naming convention for composition names. If the program came bundled with Jerzy Chwialkowski's catalogue, for example, (at extra price of course), or if CMG developed a collaborational catalogue of some kind - that would be a major selling point for me.

And the other thing - as mentioned I would need to be able to preserve my existing reports. The program mentions the ability to publish one's catalog on the web - if I could see such a catalogue - this might be another positive determinant in the purchase decision.

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Post by ch1525 » Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:12 am

Did you get it up and running yet, Robert?

How many thousands of CDs have you inputted so far?!? :D

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Post by RebLem » Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:33 am

ch1525 wrote:Did you get it up and running yet, Robert?

How many thousands of CDs have you inputted so far?!? :D
Actually, as my last post indicated, I have had problems incorporating the licenses into the program, so it is just sitting around only partially downloaded. I am thinking of calling the Geek Squad. Mr. Canfora (see his reply) won't help because he says my problem is one of basic lack of knowledge of how computers work and how to operate Windows XP, and he's probably right. But I described the problem in great detail, and Mr. Canfora's response is in this thread. That's where it stands at the moment.
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Post by Magnificat » Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:40 am

Actually, as my last post indicated, I have had problems incorporating the licenses into the program, so it is just sitting around only partially downloaded. I am thinking of calling the Geek Squad. Mr. Canfora (see his reply) won't help because he says my problem is one of basic lack of knowledge of how computers work and how to operate Windows XP, and he's probably right. But I described the problem in great detail, and Mr. Canfora's response is in this thread. That's where it stands at the moment.
Mr. Robert,

I refuse to believe you're still unable to copy two files into a folder.....

Anyway, let's try another way.

1. Right click on the zipped file (who is also called *folder* by Xp) we mailed you, that contains the two license files, and select *Extract all*. A wizard window will appear. Click [Next]

2. Now click [Browse], and follow the directory tree:
My computer -> Local disk(c:\) -> Program files -> Magnificat.

3. Select the folder called *License* and click [OK]. Files will be extracted there.

4. Run the program.

If success, this is only your first step.
I strongly suggest you learn as soon as possible how to copy files and folders from a location to another. This is a fundamental *to do* in order to preserve your job when your hard disk will crash.
Note that I said "when" (see the Murphy's law). Do not risk!

Best regards,
Giuseppe Canfora
www.collectorslab.com

Magnificat
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Post by Magnificat » Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:52 am

slofstra,

First of all, thanks for the intervention.
I really understand your troubles about your recorded data.
Undoubtedly it's always better to do something with own hands (provided you are able or you have time to spend). Nothing is more satisfactory. I started my program in such way.
You've also already outlined that caveats are unique to your personal situation.
Nevertheless, there is some points I'd like to clarify.
I haven't reinvented the wheel.
As programmer, you might easily "open" the database and find out the data.
But, if so, you should also understand that the problem is not only if you're able or not to access the data: this doesn't solve any problem.
A first problem is the database structure, as I mentioned above.
For example, you might have two MS Access database with the same data but totally incompatible each other.
In fact there are thousand of ways in order to build a database structure.
For this reason, a tool that could study for you the way to automatically merge both data cannot exist.
Only the programmer can study the problem and (perhaps) can solve it by writing appropriate routines for the single case.
For the same reason, the absence of some mysterious "ODBC" ;) should not be considered a missed feature.
Another problem is the relationship between the data, usually represented by numeric indexes.
These indexes are created by the software itself, and it's pretty impossible to do the same job manually.
Moreover, if you don't know how the code work, modified data might cause inconveniences while the program tries to read and show the data.


This don't mean that the program is bullet-proof armed. The opposite is true. For example, take a look at the file import utility. If you're able to export your data into formatted text files, you're also able to import the same data into Magnificat. And the program provide many ways in order to manipulate the data in keeping with your standards. Before and after the import. You can also make same changes on the imported catalogues.

A final question. You said:

"The program looks promising from what I've read on the web. Reliability of operation is one thing that cannot be evaluated at the outset. It'll be interesting to see how 'reblem' gets on with it"

Seems that you haven't yet installed the program...

Cordially,
Giuseppe Canfora
www.collectorslab.com

ch1525
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Post by ch1525 » Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:17 am

Magnificat wrote:Seems that you haven't yet installed the program...
HAHA, I was wondering about that, too. If I had a competing product you'd better believe I'd be installing the competition's software to see what the deal is!!!


Poor Robert!!! I wish I could transfer some of my computer savvy to him (I have plenty to spare!).

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Post by slofstra » Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:51 pm

As a software developer I'm perfectly aware of all those considerations. All the same, if I had ODBC I could preserve my MS Access paper reporting system that I'm so fond of. (I still will post screenshots at some point). Without an open file system I can't do the kind of tinkering I know I'm probably gonna want to do.

Did I say that I had downloaded the program? I generally evaluate software without doing that. If I do download a program and try it, I'm already 99% sure that I'll buy it. First, time is money. Second, I hate installing and uninstalling stuff and gunking up my computer (not referring to magnificat specifically).

As far as evaluating the program on a competitive basis, I could care less. I give my program away free. :!: I don't really care if anyone uses it or not. There are lots of good cataloguing programs around - I've never looked at one. And I've lost interest in programs like RLDB. I AM interested in building a collaborative, web based platform for classical music recordings, but not with the intention of replacing programs like 'magnificat'. Rather I hope programs like magnificat would build an interface to it.

And I may never do it. Currently it's just in the thinking stage. We've built some sophisticated WEB 2.0 technology for applications such as shipping, and I've thought of using it for this purpose.

I'd like nothing better than to find something better than RLDB. My program is pretty good if you know MS Access or are prepared to learn it. But if you don't know MS Access, you've got a bit of a learning curve ahead. And, MS Access forms, are, well, somewhat cumbersome. A rewrite in C# or JAVA would be nice, but prohibitively expensive. The market for a cataloguing program is small and developers are not charging nearly enough for their product. A cataloguing program is strictly a labour of love and not really a very promising business proposition, in my opinion.

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Post by Chalkperson » Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:18 pm

slofstra wrote:A cataloguing program is strictly a labour of love and not really a very promising business proposition, in my opinion.
I did post here just now, but I will move it to another thread...
Last edited by Chalkperson on Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by slofstra » Thu Jun 14, 2007 2:49 pm

I took a few minutes to look at 'reblem's problems and rue the day we went away from the command line. Back in the old days, before Windows, it was only necessary to tell our users: Type 'xcopy folder1 folder2 /d/s' and even though it didn't make a lot of sense to them, at least the instruction was unambiguous.

The steps involved here are not actually all that trivial. (It would also be easier if Windows Explorer returned to a left and right pane). I sense so much pain that I can't resist an attempt to help:

1) Open Windows Explorer (by right-clicking on 'My Computer' and selecting Explore). (Even as I write this I realize that the knowledge pre-requisites for performing this instruction are fairly high).

2) Now open a second Windows Explorer window (the same way as in step 1).

3) Position and enlarge these two windows so you can see both without overlapping them.

4) Find the licence ZIP file Canfora sent you in the left side Explorer window. UNZIP the file or make sure you can see the two files inside the ZIP folder. (Tip to Canfora - don't send ZIP files - especially, never send a ZIP file to a top executive, it is death).

5) Find the Program Files\magnificat\licence folder in the right side Explorer window.

6) Now using the mouse 'drag and drop' each of the two licence files from the ZIP folder in the left window to the Program Files\magnificat\licence folder in the right window. (If unsure of how to 'drag and drop' tell us).

Finally, reblem, I would really recommend taking one of those inexpensive or free computer courses for over 55s. It'll be of ongoing benefit as you begin to use the magnificat program and better than making Geeks on Wheels rich. And, it's imperative that you learn how to backup your work.

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Post by Magnificat » Thu Jun 14, 2007 3:40 pm

slofstra,
thanks to your intervention. I hope this would help Robert.
Tip to Canfora - don't send ZIP files
Unfortunately, zipped files are the only files worldwide accepted by the mail servers. I can't risk.
especially, never send a ZIP file to a top executive, it is death
:)

For the rest, I realize I don't know all your previous discussions.
Perhaps, we are talking about two different approaches...

Cordially,
Giuseppe Canfora
www.collectorslab.com

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Post by slofstra » Fri Jun 15, 2007 8:48 am

Yes, ZIP files are fairly 'inert' so mail servers don't strip them. But not everyone has WINZIP either. You could also make the user key in the licence key like many programs do. Let's hope Robert is willing to try one more time. I still have one more trick up my sleeve if this doesn't work.

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Post by slofstra » Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:08 am

Chalkperson wrote:
slofstra wrote:A cataloguing program is strictly a labour of love and not really a very promising business proposition, in my opinion.
I did post here just now, but I will move it to another thread...
Hey, Chalkie, where did you go? I was going to reply to this one.

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Post by Magnificat » Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:49 am

But not everyone has WINZIP either
XP can handle zipped files independently . External programs aren't needed. But represents zipped files as folders. Robert uses XP, and this explains my last post.
You could also make the user key in the licence key like many programs do
...facilitating the cracker's life? :)
Let's hope Robert is willing to try one more time. I still have one more trick up my sleeve if this doesn't work.
To the end he will take a course for free....:)

Giuseppe Canfora
www.collectorslab.com

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Post by Chalkperson » Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:53 am

slofstra wrote:A cataloguing program is strictly a labour of love and not really a very promising business proposition, in my opinion.
That's the way I feel about all you guys who are Cataloging WITHOUT having a digital music database, I know i'm always promising to re-explain i-Tunes, i'm crazy busy at work, but, to go for a moment to slofstra's post about 'O mio babbino carro' I actually don't think much of that aria, but, it took only 20 seconds for me to look up how many versions I had, it was less than I thought, only six and they included the obvious quintet of Callas, Tebaldi, Price ,Te Kanawa and Streich...less than 20 seconds after that I was listening to those versions back to back, and whereas I thought I would prefer Callas, it was the Streich version I preferred...I know you guys have all spent years making cards, lists, databases etc but having the music available digitally is so much better...yes, I agree some compromise is needed in i-tunes, the people at Slim Devices suggest instead of Artist being, for example, Leonard Bernstein and the Composer being Shostakovich, they have the artist this way...plus there is a separate composer field as well...

SHOSTAKOVICH - Leonard Bernstein

all these words are then immediately made into keywords so if we looked first for Bernstein and got say 60 entries, either we click on the recording we want from the list or type in Shostakovich it would then refine the search and list only Bernstein's Shostakovich recordings..the original search would also show any Bernstein on compilations etc...am I making sense here?

one last thing...digital archives allow you to make up playlists, as many as you want, analog databases do not...more from me on the subject of i-tunes soon...

ps of course if it's digital you don't have to put away dozens of cd's after a serious listening session either...

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Post by Chalkperson » Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:59 am

slofstra wrote:[Hey, Chalkie, where did you go? I was going to reply to this one.
I did not want to get in RebLems way, as you were helping him and i did not want to confuse things, I just re-posted it...

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Post by RebLem » Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:43 pm

I haven't been paying attention to this thread since my last post in it; I have been paying more attention to other parts of my life. I have found a local website, for example, called Duke City Fix, which has lots of forums on local politics, food and restaurants, housing, etc., helping newcomers, or people elsewhere thinking of moving here get acclimated, and I've just been having a ball going through it reading and posting. So not all these other aspects of my life are big problems. A fair amount of it has been just fun. But, I haven't even tried to apply any of the advice given on page 3 yet, but will try to get around to it this weekend and get it done by Monday (June 17).

Slofstra, I think it is a good idea to go to CNM (Central New Mexico College, our local, recently renamed, community college) and enroll in one of those courses for the fall. Yes, I do know how to drag and drop, I can tell you that. And actually, your Windows Explorer directions look to be fairly simple. I do have a Windows Explorer icon on my desktop, and know how to access it. The problem I do have with a lot of these things is that sometimes my version of Windows XP, which comes from Compaq, calls some programs and procedures different things than they are commonly called. It had a trial, abbreviated version of what I now know as Excel, for example, that I lost in a computer crash about 18 months ago, and have never been able to restore probably because I don't even remember what Compaq called the program. And so, my version may call some of the procedures you mention something else. I know this is the cause of at least some of my various confusions. But, I will try and get it done this weekend, starting with your instructions, slofstra. TYVM.

Oh, yes, and one more thing. My computer does have Command Prompt as an alternative method of getting things done. Part of the Accessories grouping.
Last edited by RebLem on Fri Jun 15, 2007 6:19 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Post by slofstra » Fri Jun 15, 2007 1:46 pm

I don't think that the advantages of using Itunes and a computer based repository of music versus a specialized cataloguing program are really competing or different goals.
It's been said that better is the enemy of best. That is, we reject an alternative that is clearly better than what we have in favour of some ideal notion that never arrives. The use of itunes is a case in point. But I think one could use itunes while still trying to come up with a better mousetrap for cataloguing.

Incidentally, in your example, chalkperson, you did gloss over the hours spent ripping CDs onto your disk drive.

The goal in a web-based catalogue, one in which itunes does not succeed, is to come up with a unique denotation or token that identifies each composition, performer, recording and composer. Then information that is identified with the specific identifying token can be grouped, linked, collated, sorted, printed, bought, sold, shipped - because disparate records existing in different databases and for different uses can now be linked unambiguously. The 'token' (sometimes termed as 'key' or 'item id') is something that no human ever needs to see, but under the hood, purchasing, cataloguing, encyclopedic systems constantly translate human readable information into unique unambiguous tokens. Such a token might identify a particular recording, for example. Once we establish that Karajan conducting Beethoven's 9th in 1974 is recording # 2701832567, we (this is a big we that I am thinking of) can do amazing things with it.
And no, CDDB does not do this. CDDB identifies a recording publication not a recording.

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Post by Chalkperson » Fri Jun 15, 2007 2:40 pm

slofstra wrote:Incidentally, in your example, chalkperson, you did gloss over the hours spent ripping CDs onto your disk drive.
True, and also maybe not everyone can hear their music whilst ripping which I can, and also I do understand and respect your other points, I guess I would re-phrase my pionts as being that anyone starting a NEW database for personal use would be better of ripping their music at the same time...
And no, CDDB does not do this. CDDB identifies a recording publication not a recording.
I use CDDB as a guide for the cataloguing process, I usually leave the individual tracks/movements as they are but customise all the other information into my own catagories etc

Plus I think I was right to remove my post, I was making a generalized point and did not think it fit in this thread, now I understand you may be 'selling' from this database my points are of no relevance...

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Post by RebLem » Fri Jun 15, 2007 11:57 pm

OK, here's the deal, as somebody who knew something about computers once said.

I went to Windows Explorer. The files aren't there. Problem, I think, is that they went into temporary files and have been dumped. All is not lost, however. I still have the original email from Magnificat with the zip file link and the download link.

Magnificat wrote something, just as an aside, though he gave no details and didn't develop it, about how I should have clicked on SAVE rather than RUN at some point or other. But then, he went on to claim I could still salvage the situation using RUN, and concentrated on that. So, I have to start over, but I'm not quite sure what to do. Where do I use SAVE, at the first opportunity? do I choose it every time I am asked whether I want to SAVE or RUN? As a consequence of this, will I be given other different choices later in the program, and what do I do about them? Oh, and please remember, I DO have Command Prompt as an alternative.

And how do I copy the program without copying the data? I went out and got a box of SONY CD-RWs to do this on, but I have no real idea how to get her done.

I know, this is beginning to sound like that move title, THE NEVERENDING STORY, but I did go to CNM today and got a list of programs for the summer session, some of which I can still register for, which I intend to do.
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Post by Magnificat » Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:22 am

Reblem,
maybe, a more conceptual approach is needed. First you must understand WHAT to do, then HOW do it.
The program is ALREADY installed. In fact, you are able to run it.
For this reason, forget SAVE and RUN. You don't need to click the link for several times.
When you run the program, he ask you for the missed license file.
Put your focus only on this point. The only thing to do is to put the license files into the License folder.
Where they are the files? Into the zipped file who is attached to the mail.
Well, open the mail and right-click the zipped file. Can you see an option that says *Extract to*?
Let's stop here, for the present.

Giuseppe Canfora
www.collectorslab.com

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Post by slofstra » Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:44 am

At the risk of perhaps further confusing you, since listening to two people giving advice can be akin to standing in crossfire, I'll wade in anyway:

You're doing a good job of communicating the difficulties you're having so I have no doubt you'll be successful.
Your analysis is that you don't have the licence files in a folder, but they still exist in the original email. So you need to get those licence files from the email and save them in a folder on your hard drive. In Microsoft Outlook that is done by right-clicking the attachment and choosing 'Save as ...'. But every email program has some way to do this.

Before you do this - however - why not create a new empty folder (using Explorer is a good way to do this) where you will save the Zipped licence files? Then when you examine this folder later you know it'll contain the ZIP licence files and only the ZIP files.

Then you can continue with the procedure outlined above. When you examine the folder you created with your left Explorer window you should see another 'ZIP' folder within and that in turn will contain your licence files. If it doesn't look like that let us know.

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Post by RebLem » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:59 pm

Ok, I am to the point now where I have two windows open for My Documents. Each of them has both the empty compressed file folder and the zip folder imported (extracted? what's the right word?) from the zip link in the email. The only difference I see between the two My Documents windows is that when the taskbar (right word? I mean the one that starts over at the left near the top that says File, Edit, Views, Favorites, Tools, and Help, in order) in one is shaded, the other one is dardk and active, but all I have to do to reverse them is just left click on File in the shaded one.

Now, I don't want to screw this up. slofstra, you said to drag and drop from the left file to the right. Can you do it the other way, too? I sort of suspect that what you are really supposed to do is drag & drop from the active taskbar My Documents to the shaded one--or vice versa. What's the deal here? Am I missing a step, or more? And after I successfully get this done, how do I then integrate the zip folder into the Magnificat program, so I can finally get the damn thing to work?
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Post by ch1525 » Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:39 pm

Reb, first let me try to clarify exactly what a zip file is. It is just like a normal folder except it is compressed to make it smaller. Also, when a folder (with many files in it) is zipped, that folder becomes a single file (hence the term zip file).

This zip file contains the two files that you need to place into the "License" Folder under your Magnificat Installation directory (probably C:/Program Files/Magnficat/License).

In order to take these two files and move them, you first have to extract them from the zip file.

Find the original e-mail from Giuseppe. Save the zip file he sent you to your desktop (which of course is the screen that you see with all of your shortcut icons when you have no windows open).

Now that you have zip file saved to your desktop, you need to extract it.

Right click and extract it to the same spot (your desktop). It should have the same name but now it will be a folder and not a file.

Open up this new folder and you will see the two license files. Select both of them by highlighting them with your mouse. Now right click and select copy. The two files will be placed into your clipboard.

Now open up the aforementioned License folder.

It will be blank (or at least it should be).

Right click in the blank area and click "Paste". The two license files should now appear.

That's all you have to do. It's really quite simple. I would do it this way and not try to open multiple windows side-by-side, etc.

Start over this way, is my suggestion.

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Post by RebLem » Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:05 pm

TY, Chad, I did it your way, and now, for the first time, the program appears to be completely installed ! When I click on the Magnificat icon, I get the program, not an error message. I haven't tried to do anything there yet, but its looking good, and seems to have all my old data that was in the trial version, too.

Now, I still have these two icons on the desktop with the zip #s attached to them. Do I delete them? That won't also delete them from the license folder, will it?

Also, how do I back up my work on a CD-RW, copying only the program and not the data? And later on, how do I back up the data periodically, so if I crash, I won't have to start completely over?

ADDITION: I got some confirmation when a message popped up from my McAfee saying the program had changed since I first installed it, and do I still want to give the new program internet access? Of course, I said Grant Access.

I am reluctant to begin adding anything to the database, though, fearing that will screw up chances of backing up just the program for possible later installation, so somepne please answer the QQQs in paragraphs 21 & 3 above.

Pretty please.

Also, I would like to reiterate and amplify something I said some time ago in this thread. Giuseppe agreed it was a good idea for the future, perhaps, but I wish someone would put it on the front burner. Pick some set which presents a number of cataloguing problems--different kinds of works, multiple composers, etc, perhaps this one, for example-- http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/alb ... _id=148639 --or http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/alb ... m_id=12167 --and an opera recording, any opera recording, as that presents cataloguing problems you don't encounter with other genres, and show us everything you need to do to make sure that every item in each of those sets appears on every composer list, every works list, so you can access any available information about the record and its contents. I think this is much more valuable than simply taking a "zone defense" approach, where you look at each of the parts of the program and tell how it can show all kinds of stuff about the record. I want to know what you have to do to make sure all that stuff shows up in the database, no matter whether you access the composer list, the performer list, or whatever. There are lots of just practical data entry problems which need to be resolved before we can be sure we are on the right track. And the fewer records we have in the system when we learn, the better. It would be much more difficult if we entered stuff in a half-assed way, so that it showed up on the composers list and the performers list, but not the labels list, or whatever, and then found the deficiencies only after thousands of items had been entered and then had to go back through thousands of records to cover the gaps. I want to get it right the first time.
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Post by ch1525 » Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:10 pm

Hooray!!! I'm now quite proud of myself!


You can go ahead and delete all that clutter on your desktop now (the saved zip files etc). I'd keep that e-mail, though, just in case you need them again.

I wouldn't think you need to worry about copying the program as you can always just redownload it.

Backing up the data on the other hand, is something I will leave for Mr. Canfora to discuss.

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Post by RebLem » Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:15 pm

ch1525 wrote:Hooray!!! I'm now quite proud of myself!


You can go ahead and delete all that clutter on your desktop now (the saved zip files etc). I'd keep that e-mail, though, just in case you need them again.

I wouldn't think you need to worry about copying the program as you can always just redownload it.

Backing up the data on the other hand, is something I will leave for Mr. Canfora to discuss.
Thank you again for your help, Chad.

I hope the someone will answer the other QQQ's in my last post. The fact that there was no response to any of it until now led me to think maybe I farted on the way out of the room. :lol:
Don't drink and drive. You might spill it.--J. Eugene Baker, aka my late father
"We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term."--Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S. Carolina.
"Racism is America's Original Sin."--Francis Cardinal George, former Roman Catholic Archbishop of Chicago.

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Post by slofstra » Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:22 pm

Is that what that was? I though it was Berio's Raspberry Suite. Congratulations on getting it working. I think you'll need mr. magnificat to answer your remaining questions on data backup. As ch1525 indicates, you have the original email with the licence info - which is your ticket, in effect - and you can always redownload the program.

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Post by Chalkperson » Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:32 pm

slofstra wrote:Is that what that was? I though it was Berio's Raspberry Suite.
I always thought that the 'Raspberry Suite' was one of Berio's finest works, I am so glad you are enjoying his music, let me know, i'm sure I could reccomend at least six other recordings of his work that I think you will enjoy...especially the S.B.D. Concerto... :wink:

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Post by ch1525 » Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:56 pm

slofstra wrote:The goal in a web-based catalogue, one in which itunes does not succeed, is to come up with a unique denotation or token that identifies each composition, performer, recording and composer. Then information that is identified with the specific identifying token can be grouped, linked, collated, sorted, printed, bought, sold, shipped - because disparate records existing in different databases and for different uses can now be linked unambiguously. The 'token' (sometimes termed as 'key' or 'item id') is something that no human ever needs to see, but under the hood, purchasing, cataloguing, encyclopedic systems constantly translate human readable information into unique unambiguous tokens. Such a token might identify a particular recording, for example. Once we establish that Karajan conducting Beethoven's 9th in 1974 is recording # 2701832567, we (this is a big we that I am thinking of) can do amazing things with it.
And no, CDDB does not do this. CDDB identifies a recording publication not a recording.
I think this is definitely the right direction to head in. Of course it would be a lot of work at first for the developer, but it would great to have such a collaborative effort. I'd be willing to help in any way that I possibly could.

ArkivMusic's site is perhaps a good place to get some ideas from. They've obviously put a lot of thought into what the best way to find a particular recording is.

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Post by Magnificat » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:20 am

Robert,
I'm glad you solved your primary problem.
I would want also to say thanks the other friends who have helped you.
Now the program runs and it's time to learn slowly all his features.
In your case, it's not a good idea now to jump into it at the deep end.
So, you should read carefully the help and familiarize with the program by proceeding by trial and error, evaluating the results case by case.

As an example, the help it enumerates with precision files and the folders that they must be copied. This is the WHAT. The HOW can be translated as: are you able to burn discs?
If so, you are OK. If not...it's another story....

For the rest, the program give you obviously the ability to store correctly items as in your example.

(Incidentally, when entering Ataulfo Argenta in web search utility, your example disc is the first item in the list).

When the disc set has been imported, you need only to transform some tracks in works and associate its performers.

To do it, you must read the help carefully.


Regards,
Giuseppe Canfora
www.collectorslab.com

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Post by RebLem » Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:46 pm

Can I burn discs? Yes and no.

My computer has the capacity, but I don't know how to do it. I will have to figure that out.
Don't drink and drive. You might spill it.--J. Eugene Baker, aka my late father
"We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term."--Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S. Carolina.
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Post by slofstra » Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:31 pm

chalkie wrote:especially the S.B.D. Concerto...:?
I give - what's the SBD Concerto? Perhaps I shouldn't have maligned Berio so quickly, as I still owe him a few more listens before I give up. Will keep you posted.

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Post by Chalkperson » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:53 pm

slofstra wrote:
chalkie wrote:especially the S.B.D. Concerto...:?
I give - what's the SBD Concerto? Perhaps I shouldn't have maligned Berio so quickly, as I still owe him a few more listens before I give up. Will keep you posted.
Tis from my school days. Silent But Deadly...another flatulence joke... :wink:

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Post by Corlyss_D » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:32 pm

RebLem wrote:Can I burn discs? Yes and no.

My computer has the capacity, but I don't know how to do it. I will have to figure that out.
You need a write drive, if you don't have one (they don't come bundled with a computer normally; usually you have to go buy one), adequate storage space on your hd, blank discs, and software to rip and burn. Real audio and Windows media software do the job and are readily available, often bundled with the computer. The thing that you need to understand, which took me a while, is that the computer will store the ripped files on your hd before you burn them. It don't copy directly from a cd to a blank. It copies to your hd, then transfers them to a blank cd. Then if you don't erase them from your hd, you will have them forever. I try to remember to erase the files from my hd immediately the burned cd checks out.
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Post by slofstra » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:00 pm

Chalkperson wrote:
slofstra wrote:
chalkie wrote:especially the S.B.D. Concerto...:?
I give - what's the SBD Concerto? Perhaps I shouldn't have maligned Berio so quickly, as I still owe him a few more listens before I give up. Will keep you posted.
Tis from my school days. Silent But Deadly...another flatulence joke... :wink:
Oh, that was actually John Cage. Someone 'scheet achteraf' at a performance of 4'33" and added a whole new dimension to the performance.

I probably shouldn't go down this path, but I've heard it said that women prefer the strong, silent type while men have more bark than bite.

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Post by Chalkperson » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:21 pm

slofstra wrote:I probably shouldn't go down this path...
I agree, but now at least whenever you listen to Berio you will have a smile on your face... :wink:

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Post by ch1525 » Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:30 pm

I came across a website the other day that is kind of on the right track to what we are talking about with a collaborative online approach to cataloging.

Here is the link:

http://www.itaggit.com


Still not quite what we need as it isn't specifically geared towards Classical Music, but interesting nonetheless.


P.S. How is your Magnificat usage coming along, Robert?

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Post by ch1525 » Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:12 pm

Sorry to revive this thread, but I just came across a website that, if geared a little more towards Classical Music, would be almost perfect for the goal of building a collaborative database and collection tool.

Henry, I think this may be along the lines of what you had in mind.


http://www.discogs.com/


P.S.
RebLem, did you ever start working on your catalog yet?!

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Post by ginosec » Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:24 am

I've been using The Collectorz Music Collector for a few months. Great peice of software, they maintain their own database which is basically a bolstered version of CDDB. They also have some nifty features like outputting to HTML etc.

The only shortcoming when cataloging classical music. It's easy to catalog your CDs, vinyl etc. but there's no way of keeping track of the individual works you have.

There's an interesting recent discussion on their support forum covering this very topic, and it looks like they will have a solution in the new version coming out later this month. The solution involves having a database of "works" as well as "CDs", "vinyl" and cross referencing them. A huge undertaking of course, but a promising one.

http://www.collectorz.com/phpbb2/viewto ... sc&start=0

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