There's a huge hole in my collection and need your advice

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Donaldopato
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There's a huge hole in my collection and need your advice

Post by Donaldopato » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:09 pm

I will remove myself from the ranks of the CMG if requested. I can't believe I am so lame and thus so ashamed. :oops:

Now that I have beat myself sufficiently... I realized I do not have a copy of the Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique in my collection. I thought I did.... but it is no where to be found and I have my collection well arranged.

So how do I rectify this omission? Munch? Bernstein? Davis? all three?? Others??

I thought I had the Munch but obviously not.

Please let me stay.... :wink:
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein

Barry
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Post by Barry » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:18 pm

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Nothing wrong with going with what you already thought you had :wink: . The Munch '54 is deservedly a classic.
But these two by Bernstein and Monteux (the latter from 1950 in mono) are also great:

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Post by Werner » Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:09 pm

I'm inclined to agree on the Monteux, Barry - in fact, I'd tend to take any musical recommendations of yours seriously.

But I remember Monteux conducting it with the New York Philharmonic back in the Carnegie Hall days. By that time, he was in his upper Eighties, and he led a performance as vital and passionate as a young man's.

Rudolf Serkin had played the Emperor in the first half, and he was sitting in a box for the Berlioz, taking it all in. A great evening.
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Donaldopato
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Post by Donaldopato » Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:23 pm

thanks! One of the more serious reasons I had for posting this was to see if, over time, the Munch had some serious competition. I must check the Monteux as I am generally fond of his performances.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein

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Re: There's a huge hole in my collection and need your advic

Post by Corlyss_D » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:03 pm

Donaldopato wrote:I realized I do not have a copy of the Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique in my collection.

I thought I had the Munch but obviously not.

Please let me stay.... :wink:
:lol: Groveling not required, Donald. I second Barry's suggestion of Munch. If you could get the 10-cd collection of Munch's Berlioz, that would put you right with everyone here. :wink: It's available at a very good price used on Amazon.

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If you can't, at least get the Columbia Masterworks gatefold of Steber doing Berlioz' Nuits d'Ete, along with Munch's recording of the Symphony. It's one of my favorite pieces and I own quite a few recordings of it, but none better than the luminous Steber.
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Barry
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Post by Barry » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:04 pm

Donaldopato wrote:thanks! One of the more serious reasons I had for posting this was to see if, over time, the Munch had some serious competition. I must check the Monteux as I am generally fond of his performances.
There are two Monteux Fantastiques on that Preiser label I believe. The print is small in that photo, but it's the one with the Schumann 4th symphony as the filler.
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea; but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." - Abraham Lincoln

"Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed." - Winston Churchill

"Before I refuse to take your questions, I have an opening statement." - Ronald Reagan

http://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pbp0hur ... re=related

sfbugala
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Post by sfbugala » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:10 pm

I don't mind the Symphonie Fantastique. But I sometimes agree with my friend's unorthodox view: only the last two movements of that work "count." There are some really drab performances that make that work drag. And if a plodding conductor is at the helm during that third movement, look out!

I like Bernstein's Columbia accounts, and Davis' RCOA. But there's a boatload of good ones.

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Post by Chalkperson » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:18 pm

I think we all agree on Munch, but I also enjoy Gergiev's and Colin Davis's 1974 account with the RCO...
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Re: There's a huge hole in my collection and need your advic

Post by CharmNewton » Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:27 am

Donaldopato wrote:I will remove myself from the ranks of the CMG if requested. I can't believe I am so lame and thus so ashamed. :oops:

Now that I have beat myself sufficiently... I realized I do not have a copy of the Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique in my collection. I thought I did.... but it is no where to be found and I have my collection well arranged.

So how do I rectify this omission? Munch? Bernstein? Davis? all three?? Others??

I thought I had the Munch but obviously not.

Please let me stay.... :wink:
I believe the first CD issue of the 1954 Munch recording was as a filler for his recording of the Requiem (the 1962 recording was issued on a Victrola CD). The print is tiny and easy to miss, so you might check to see if you have that Requiem.

John

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Post by Wallingford » Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:34 am

Lemme cast a vote here for PARAY.....fastest one on record! (Actually, not accurate: de Froment & Ozawa 1 are even faster--but we're way further down the quality spectrum here!)

Argenta is a "slowie".....but the man was a mesmerizer. (Same goes for Klemperer.)
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Never mattered we were always ok
Getting ready for Christmas day
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CharmNewton
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Post by CharmNewton » Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:39 am

I'm not sure anyone has done a better job of conjuring up wicked spirits and rattling bones in the Finale than Weingartner in his 1925 recording.

John

val
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Post by val » Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:28 am

My choice goes to the elegance and sense of detail of Beecham with RTF National Orchestra, one of the Fantastiques with more fantasy.

Paray, fast, with a great tension and use of contrasts, and Argenta, more lyrical are also remarkable.

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Re: There's a huge hole in my collection and need your advic

Post by karlhenning » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:37 am

Corlyss_D wrote:If you could get the 10-cd collection of Munch's Berlioz, that would put you right with everyone here. :wink: It's available at a very good price used on Amazon.

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Re: There's a huge hole in my collection and need your advic

Post by jbuck919 » Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:12 am

Donaldopato wrote:I will remove myself from the ranks of the CMG if requested. I can't believe I am so lame and thus so ashamed. :oops:

Now that I have beat myself sufficiently... I realized I do not have a copy of the Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique in my collection. I thought I did.... but it is no where to be found and I have my collection well arranged.

So how do I rectify this omission? Munch? Bernstein? Davis? all three?? Others??

I thought I had the Munch but obviously not.

Please let me stay.... :wink:
Queue up "March to the Gallows," please.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

DavidRoss
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Post by DavidRoss » Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:47 am

Michael Tilson Thomas and the San Francisco Symphony Orchestra--and don't look back!
"Most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." ~Leo Tolstoy

"It is the highest form of self-respect to admit our errors and mistakes and make amends for them. To make a mistake is only an error in judgment, but to adhere to it when it is discovered shows infirmity of character." ~Dale Turner

"Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either." ~Albert Einstein
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Re: There's a huge hole in my collection and need your advic

Post by karlhenning » Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:15 am

jbuck919 wrote:Queue up "March to the Gallows," please.
Separately . . . I have a new score I've been meaning to send you, John.

Cheers,
~Karl
Karl Henning, PhD
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GK
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Post by GK » Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:15 am

My favorite is Markevich & the Lamoureux Orch.

Heck148
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Post by Heck148 » Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:33 am

Either Solti/CSO is terrific....5/72 or 6/92 live from Salzburg.
also - Mitropoulos/NYPO from '56 is wonderful also.

I don't recommend Munch...he goes too fast, it's too sloppy...every version I've heard - c 4 or 5.

Heck148
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Post by Heck148 » Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:36 am

Barry wrote: There are two Monteux Fantastiques on that Preiser label I believe.
I've always enjoyed the Monteux/VPO on RCA/Victrola - tho Monteux himself didn't care for it too much, he thought the orchestra didn't understand the style...he liked his ACGO one better.

piston
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Post by piston » Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:47 am

Here, Boulez is too dry, Karajan too emphatic, Ozawa inexpressive. Beecham (mono recording is a bit of a problem for this work), as well as Munch (a bit fast), Solti and Colin Davis (both with the LSO and Concertgebouw) are all worthwhile recordings.

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Post by moldyoldie » Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:40 pm

Outside of the popular March to the Scaffold and Witches Sabbath episodes, Symphonie fantastique in toto did absolutely nothing for me -- Davis, Paray, Dutoit, Boulez, even Norrington -- nothing, nada, zip. Then I heard Bernstein! :shock: Wow, what an epiphany! :lol:

I've yet to hear either of Munch's.
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Seán
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Post by Seán » Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:10 pm

I have Davis with the LSO and I really like it, I must get a copy of the Munch recording too.
Seán

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Modernistfan
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Post by Modernistfan » Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:55 pm

Whatever you do, do not get the Norrington. It takes some sort of perverse talent to make the last two movements sound boring, but Norrington manages it. Also, on no authority whatsoever, he cuts the orchestra down to something like 60 players in the Virgin recording, and they do not have the power required where it is needed. (Berlioz is on record stating that he really wanted 200(!!) players, and it is my understanding that he somehow managed to get 130 for the premiere.)

I would go for any of the Colin Davis recordings, the Martinon (if you can find it; it may be cheaper in Europe notwithstanding the exchange rate), or the Levine (reissued recently on ArkivCD). Boulez (who considers Berlioz the start of the entire avant-garde movement in French music, not without reason) might be another choice. But avoid either of the Norrington recordings on penalty of terminal boredom.

lismahago
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Post by lismahago » Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:22 pm

Mark Minkowski and Les Musiciens du Louvre get my vote. Also very entertaining are Beecham and l'Orchestre National de la Radiodiffusion Française.
Ciaran

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Re: There's a huge hole in my collection and need your advic

Post by stenka razin » Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:53 pm

Donaldopato wrote:I will remove myself from the ranks of the CMG if requested. I can't believe I am so lame and thus so ashamed. :oops:

Now that I have beat myself sufficiently... I realized I do not have a copy of the Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique in my collection. I thought I did.... but it is no where to be found and I have my collection well arranged.

So how do I rectify this omission? Munch? Bernstein? Davis? all three?? Others??

I thought I had the Munch but obviously not.

Please let me stay.... :wink:

You picked Munch and you should stay with it. It was great in the 1950's and sounds just as magnificent today. Buy it again, please. :D

jbuck919
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Post by jbuck919 » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:02 pm

Having made my facetious comment, perhaps I can offer Donald some consolation when I state that I have never owned a recording of S.F., nor do I desire one. When I was in high school, my father had to take a music appreciation course (which should have been way beyond him at that point but was not because of his own specialized interests) where identification was part of the final exam. He took this in order to complete his B.A. from Potsdam. So I spent hours with him queuing up random passages from the S.F., the New World Symphony, and the Moldau (those are the ones I remember--actually it was a neat father-son thing to do). Then, while still in high school, I attended both a rehearsal and a performance of the not-bad-at-all Hudson Valley Philharmonic that featured the work. So my idee of this work was fixe at an early age, and while there are other gaps in Berlioz that I really ought to fill (Harold in Italy, for instance), I just don't think about the S.F. one way or another let alone to be discriminating about various performances.

Just an anecdote from me. Please don't treat it as more than that.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Post by Corlyss_D » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:12 pm

Modernistfan wrote:Whatever you do, do not get the Norrington. It takes some sort of perverse talent to make the last two movements sound boring, but Norrington manages it.
You know, whenever an EM conductor gets the urge to do the conventional repertoire, they should go into therapy instead. I wouldn't think of touching about half a dozen EM conductors, Norrington included, in the 19th century catalog.
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Post by Modernistfan » Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:00 pm

Agreed (with the possible exceptions of Gardiner and Minkowski, both of whom also have decent track records with non-HIP orchestras.) What galls me about Norrington is how willing he is to disregard the composer's own documented ideas about performance of his own works.

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Post by CharmNewton » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:09 pm

Corlyss_D wrote:
Modernistfan wrote:Whatever you do, do not get the Norrington. It takes some sort of perverse talent to make the last two movements sound boring, but Norrington manages it.
You know, whenever an EM conductor gets the urge to do the conventional repertoire, they should go into therapy instead. I wouldn't think of touching about half a dozen EM conductors, Norrington included, in the 19th century catalog.
While I Like Norrington's Bruckner 3rd, and he also made a nice Wagner disc with Jane Eaglen, I find his Symphonie Fantastique pretty boring. His radically literal take on the work just doesn't work for me. I don't find Norington as an inexpressive as he sounds here.

John

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Post by Chalkperson » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:58 pm

I have to say that I very proud to have very, very few of Maestro Norrington's Recordings in my colection, but Minkowski I love, and Gardiner, everybody else loves... :wink:
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TopoGigio

Re: There's a huge hole in my collection and need your advice

Post by TopoGigio » Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:11 am

And dont forget the Piano Transcription of Liszt,,,by Idil Biret on Naxos
8550725 !!! Image

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Re: There's a huge hole in my collection and need your advice

Post by Chalkperson » Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:35 am

Topo, that's my Flag!!! the Welsh one...now you made me homesick...Diolch un Fawr... :wink:

Try Saying this...

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoc...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llanfairpw ... iogogogoch
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TopoGigio

Re: There's a huge hole in my collection and need your advice

Post by TopoGigio » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:56 pm

Image
Gut-But-In-Morocco-We-Have-All-Better !

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