Pilz classical label

[sfbugala]

I found a superb selection of Bach discs on the mega cheapo label, Pilz featuring Chrstiane Jaccottet on harpsichord. I remember seeing these at Best Buy many years back for a buck a disc...or less! So far, I have Books I and II of the WTC, Goldberg Variations, and Inventions, Sinfonias, and Preludes. These could go toe-to-toe with anything put out by the "real" labels, like DG. I know Pilz has come out with plenty of garbage, but has anyone else found some fine things from this label or another one similar to it?

I look forward to your responses.

Sincerely,
Steven

[Chalkperson]

I thought Pilz was a kind of Beer, but, never seen any cd's on their label....

[sfbugala]

lol

[Lance]

Hi Steven ... indeed, I know the PILZ label very well. Most of the discs I have on this label feature the wonderful pianist Dubravka Tomsic. These embrace recordings of music by Scarlatti, Bach, Beethoven, and Chopin. Another outstanding recording features pianist Leonard Hokanson in Mozart's K271 and K453 piano concertos with Camerata Labacensis with Kurt Redel conducting. There are some very good things on this inexpensive label.

[CharmNewton]

There are lovely discs of the Haydn Op. 64 quartets played by the Gaspar da Salo Quartet, played with warm tone and impeccable style.

John

[Gary]

They issued some interesting ballet CDs by the Bolshoi Theatre Orchestra. I ordered their complete Giselle from Berkshire Record Outlet in 2001. The performance itself is quite good. However, my copy of the Act II disc has the music from Act I on it.

In the early '90s I picked up their double CD set of Telemann's Dinner Music. Also included on that set are Hummel's trumpet concerto and the lesser-known trumpet concerto by Franz Xaver Richter. The performances are fairly good, but the trumpeter isn't first-rate.

[pizza]

I found a superb Bruckner Symphony 8 with Herbert Kegel conducting the Leipzig RSO; also a CD with an interesting compilation of works that include Bach Overture D-Dur, BWV 1069; Messian Oiseaux exotiques; Ives Scherzo - Over the Pavements; and Saint Saens Les carnaval des Animaux played by the Chamber Music Ensemble of the Leipziger Gewandhaus conducted by Max Pommer. Not a bad haul for a couple of bucks!

[Holden Fourth]

Hi Steven ... indeed, I know the PILZ label very well. Most of the discs I have on this label feature the wonderful pianist Dubravka Tomsic. These embrace recordings of music by Scarlatti, Bach, Beethoven, and Chopin. Another outstanding recording features pianist Leonard Hokanson in Mozart's K271 and K453 piano concertos with Camerata Labacensis with Kurt Redel conducting. There are some very good things on this inexpensive label.

Yes, indeed. Her recording of the LvB 8th, 14th and 21st piano sonatas are superb, especially the Waldstein. The technique and musicality of Op 53 is just jaw dropping. The excitement and sense of forward momentum she creates in the first movement has hardly been bettered. This rates in my top 3 Waldstein recordings and is probably #1. I got the CD with these three sonatas for $2.00!

[Jack Kelso]

I thought Pilz was a kind of Beer, but, never seen any cd's on their label....

Ha-haaa! Good one. "Pilz" means mushroom in German, but the type of beer is "Pils" (after the Czech city).

Jack

[Ralph]

Pilz discs were available at Tower in New York. I haven't seen that label in a long time. I thought they had gone out of business. I definitely agree about Tomsic - I heard her perform here and she truly is remarkable.

[dirkronk]

Another enthusiastic endorsement for Tomsic (and thanks to Holden for being first to make me listen to her).

Angela Giulini occupies some of the same rPilz eleases of Beethoven sonatas as Tomsic--pretty good but not at Tomsic's level IMO.

And I have a couple of the Jaccottet discs, which I also enjoy.

But that's about it for Pilz CDs in my collection. I peruse used CD places locally (used book stores and the like) and always see plenty of Pilz orchestral, chamber and organ CDs, but none that have tempted me--even at a buck each. Maybe other posters on this thread will change that.


Dirk

[sfbugala]

I'll keep an eye open for any Tomsic recordings, for sure, as well as the others mentioned. What's funny is a used cd place acquired some, and even at "bargain" prices, $4, they're more than when they came out new! But I'll just use trade to get any I find. Hopefully, they have some of the listed.

If I recall, some of Jaccottet's same recordings were also on the Point label. I wouldn't be shocked if some day, Brilliant Classics got them all and put them in a cheap box.

[stenka razin]

Pilz CDs were marketed in the cheapest packaging, worst art work with horrible notes, but, as stated it is the music that counts and some of their artists are supurb. For example, Tomsic and Jaccottet.

[Lance]

If you're a fan of Christiane Jaccottet, you will probably want to have her complete violin sonatas by Bach with ARTHUR GRUMIAUX, once available on Philips [454.011]. I have been trying to secure complete birth-death dates for Jaccottet, currently showing as being born on February 13, 1937 and passing sometime in January 1999. (The birth date has somewhere shown as 1911, but I cannot verify that.)

Another enthusiastic endorsement for Tomsic (and thanks to Holden for being first to make me listen to her).

Angela Giulini occupies some of the same rPilz eleases of Beethoven sonatas as Tomsic--pretty good but not at Tomsic's level IMO.

And I have a couple of the Jaccottet discs, which I also enjoy.

But that's about it for Pilz CDs in my collection. I peruse used CD places locally (used book stores and the like) and always see plenty of Pilz orchestral, chamber and organ CDs, but none that have tempted me--even at a buck each. Maybe other posters on this thread will change that.


Dirk

[dirkronk]

If you're a fan of Christiane Jaccottet, you will probably want to have her complete violin sonatas by Bach with ARTHUR GRUMIAUX, once available on Philips [454.011].

Thanks, Lance. I actually have that set (which also features Philippe Mermoud) already, since anything with Grumiaux noted on the cover gets attention from me.


Dirk

[dirkronk]

I'll keep an eye open for any Tomsic recordings, for sure, as well as the others mentioned. What's funny is a used cd place acquired some, and even at "bargain" prices, $4, they're more than when they came out new!

Yeah. I mentioned "a buck each" because I have found them as cheap as that--and at places with good turnover, still do. However, there are some clueless pricing folks at various CD sales venues (most know nothing about classical anyway, at least down here in south Texas) who tend to mark these grey ghosts at $3.99, $5.99...I've even seen $7.99...at least until they sit gathering dust for several months. Then the markdowns start.

Cheers. And good hunting,

Dirk

[Modernistfan]

WARNING!!

Although there have been no questions about the provenance of the Pilz discs that list Christiane Jaccottet and Dubravka Tomsic as the performers, there is abundant documentation that many, perhaps most, of the recordings on that label are either misattributed or attributed to pseudonymous soloists, orchestras, and conductors. For example, many of the recordings on that label, although listed "DDD," were actually recorded in the 1960's or 1970's for Austrian Radio under Milan Horvat or other conductors. Those recordings had previously turned up on cheapo LP's on a variety of labels. A number of fictitious orchestras are named on these recordings, including the Süddeutsche Philharmonie, the Camerata Romana, and the Philharmonia Slavonica. Moreover, there are real artists, such as the conductors Hanspeter Gmür and Anton Nanut, who actually exist but never made the recordings attributed to them. (Gmür later made some recordings for Naxos of J.C. Bach and Dittersdorf, and is approximately 74; he is Swiss and has been conducting since the age of 19.) Additionally, the London Festival Orchestra, named on some of these recordings, apparently does not exist. It is NOT the London Festival Orchestra conducted by Ross Pople that shows up on a number of Hyperion, Arte Nova, ASV, and some other legitimate labels.

Caveat emptor disci compacti!!

[GK]

In the mid 1990's Best Buy sold Pilz 2CD packs for $1.49 and single CDs for 99 cents. At the same time Best Buy's arch rival Circuit City was selling many of the same performances for $1.99 per CD on such labels as Point Classics and Classical Gallery, and Sam Goody was selling the same material for $3.99 a disc on the Excelsior label.

After I bought quite a few of these discs, I learned about the false labeling described above. As for Anton Nanut, a pretty good conductor, his name may have been used on recordings not made by him, but his main problem was his recordings being attributed to other conductors real and fictional.

[sfbugala]

WARNING!!

Although there have been no questions about the provenance of the Pilz discs that list Christiane Jaccottet and Dubravka Tomsic as the performers, there is abundant documentation that many, perhaps most, of the recordings on that label are either misattributed or attributed to pseudonymous soloists, orchestras, and conductors. For example, many of the recordings on that label, although listed "DDD," were actually recorded in the 1960's or 1970's for Austrian Radio under Milan Horvat or other conductors. Those recordings had previously turned up on cheapo LP's on a variety of labels. A number of fictitious orchestras are named on these recordings, including the Süddeutsche Philharmonie, the Camerata Romana, and the Philharmonia Slavonica. Moreover, there are real artists, such as the conductors Hanspeter Gmür and Anton Nanut, who actually exist but never made the recordings attributed to them. (Gmür later made some recordings for Naxos of J.C. Bach and Dittersdorf, and is approximately 74; he is Swiss and has been conducting since the age of 19.) Additionally, the London Festival Orchestra, named on some of these recordings, apparently does not exist. It is NOT the London Festival Orchestra conducted by Ross Pople that shows up on a number of Hyperion, Arte Nova, ASV, and some other legitimate labels.

Caveat emptor disci compacti!!

A good warning. I think the Jaccottet ones are legit, but I totally agree about the fictitious orchestras. It's all so weird.

Another odd label is Sony Music Special Products. I've bought some at outlet mall music stores and had mixed results. I bought a pretty kickin' Brahms 4th, Tragic Overture, Academic Festival Overture , with "Franz Abel" and "Walter Abel." Plus, a decent Sibelius 1st disc. But there are others I just don't have the time to mess with to investigate. It would be cool if there were a timing database where someone could say, "Hey, this must be Eugen Jochum's EMI Brahms 4 because the timings match." Sadly, you'd probably have to buy the disc as the timings on the package were not accurate.

[pizza]

There's nothing new about fictitious orchestras, or for that matter fictitious conductors. Copyright laws and conductors' contracts impelled some producers to indulge. In the early days of LP, the RCA Camden label offered quite a few such recordings; somewhere there's a list of the correct names of those orchestras. I suppose if one has the time and energy to track them down, the same can be done for almost any recording.

I'm still trying to discover who the real conductor(s) is/are in a great 2 CD set of Mahler Symphony 1, Shostakovich Symphony 5, Stravinsky Firebird and Debussy La Mer that was marketed by the now defunct Lys label as L'Art d' Ernest Borsamsky. The performances, allegedly by the Berlin and Leipzig RSOs and recorded between 1947 and 1949 are way too good to be by an unknown conductor and "Ernest Borsamsky" isn't listed in Holmes or in any other reference book.

[stenka razin]

There's nothing new about fictitious orchestras, or for that matter fictitious conductors. Copyright laws and conductors' contracts impelled some producers to indulge. In the early days of LP, the RCA Camden label offered quite a few such recordings; somewhere there's a list of the correct names of those orchestras. I suppose if one has the time and energy to track them down, the same can be done for almost any recording.

I'm still trying to discover who the real conductor(s) is/are in a great 2 CD set of Mahler Symphony 1, Shostakovich Symphony 5, Stravinsky Firebird and Debussy La Mer that was marketed by the now defunct Lys label as L'Art d' Ernest Borsamsky. The performances, allegedly by the Berlin and Leipzig RSOs and recorded between 1947 and 1949 are way too good to be by an unknown conductor and "Ernest Borsamsky" isn't listed in Holmes or in any other reference book.

pizza, here is an article from 'Classical Notes', that might interest you..

A Michigan reader John Coughlin directed my attention to a letter that appeared in the Spring 2001 Classical Record Collector, whose publisher kindly made it available. An Austrian researcher had written that Borsamsky indeed existed – he was concertmaster of an orchestra in the Balkans and was invited to Leipzig by Abendroth, who had met him while on tour. Borsamsky conducted throughout Germany, including Berlin, Cologne and Frankfurt, and for a time was based in Brussels. He specialized in French and Russian repertoire as well as modern Belgian and Polish music and garnered glowing reviews for "his sense of color, attention to detail and vital, energetic direction." However, even in this account some mystery remains – the researcher reported that he could find no further evidence of Borsamsky's existence after the early 1950s.

Who knows?

[pizza]

stenka razin, thanks. I'm familiar with Peter Gutmann's Classical Notes update and the original article. I thought I'd post them both just in case anyone has any further ideas:

"Speaking of discoveries, here's another that's also an intriguing mystery. Dante has released a two-CD set of "L'Art d'Ernest Borsamsky" (Lys 429-430) containing 1947-1949 broadcasts with the Berlin and Leipzig radio orchestras of the Mahler Symphony # 1, the Shostakovich Symphony # 5, Stravinsky's Firebird Suite and Debussy's La Mer.L'Art de Ernest Borsamsky - or whom? Although the Shostakovich has careless playing and overloaded sound, all four readings are beautifully conceived, full-blooded and soulful, spontaneously flowing between subtle mysticism and surging power. The Mahler is especially magnificent and ranks among its very finest recordings.

But who was this guy? There's no listing for "Borsamsky" at all in any of the standard references, not even in the 1954 edition of the definitive Grove's Dictionary of Music and Musicians nor the equally massive and comprehensive 1952 German compendium, Die Musik in Geschichte und Gegenwart. Internet searches turn up empty as well. Surely no amateur would have gotten to conduct these prestigious orchestras, nor could have produced such impressive results. Was "Borsamsky" a pseudonym for a famous artist, perhaps evading a contract dispute or, given the time and place, hiding from wartime notoriety? The geographic and stylistic clues (especially the bold, jagged tempo changes) suggest Abendroth, but he performed openly throughout this period. Presumably, orchestral archives or some retired musician of the time could elucidate, but the CD liner notes willingly consign the matter to lasting mystery.

So who was Ernest Borsamsky? Any ideas?

2004 Update: Michigan reader John Coughlin directed my attention to a letter that appeared in the Spring 2001 Classical Record Collector, whose publisher kindly made it available. An Austrian researcher had written that Borsamsky indeed existed – he was concertmaster of an orchestra in the Balkans and was invited to Leipzig by Abendroth, who had met him while on tour. Borsamsky conducted throughout Germany, including Berlin, Cologne and Frankfurt, and for a time was based in Brussels. He specialized in French and Russian repertoire as well as modern Belgian and Polish music and garnered glowing reviews for "his sense of color, attention to detail and vital, energetic direction." However, even in this account some mystery remains – the researcher reported that he could find no further evidence of Borsamsky's existence after the early 1950s."

There have been other attempts to solve the mystery but it remains a mystery. No one yet has been able to find the "glowing reviews" he supposedly received.

[sfbugala]

There's nothing new about fictitious orchestras, or for that matter fictitious conductors. Copyright laws and conductors' contracts impelled some producers to indulge. In the early days of LP, the RCA Camden label offered quite a few such recordings; somewhere there's a list of the correct names of those orchestras. I suppose if one has the time and energy to track them down, the same can be done for almost any recording.

I'm still trying to discover who the real conductor(s) is/are in a great 2 CD set of Mahler Symphony 1, Shostakovich Symphony 5, Stravinsky Firebird and Debussy La Mer that was marketed by the now defunct Lys label as L'Art d' Ernest Borsamsky. The performances, allegedly by the Berlin and Leipzig RSOs and recorded between 1947 and 1949 are way too good to be by an unknown conductor and "Ernest Borsamsky" isn't listed in Holmes or in any other reference book.

Oh yeah, Camden had some weird ones. I think my favorite was the Cromwell SO for the Cincinnatti Symphony.

But the Borsamsky reference brings us to a weirder, frustrating, but ultimately fascinating realm: the world of unknowns. It's conceivable that some conductors could assemble a great recording or two...or even more. We just can't find them. Or they're right under our noses.

I remember a Fanfare review (probably from 1989-91 or so) where a reviewer made a passing remark about his favorite recording of Mozart's Clarinet Concerto. I think he said it was on the Allegretto label or maybe it was Turnabout. It was a very provincial orchestra, but all forces involved nailed it. I'd love to find out which one it was. But I totally think that's possible. Today, it seems especially possible because of what we hear on labels like Naxos. They make some superb stuff.

That's why book fairs can be fun. I'll take chances on certain records. If it's good, it's a pleasant surprise. If it's bad, I save it for a "party record" and count the trumpet cracks.

[sfbugala]

If you're a fan of Christiane Jaccottet, you will probably want to have her complete violin sonatas by Bach with ARTHUR GRUMIAUX, once available on Philips [454.011]. I have been trying to secure complete birth-death dates for Jaccottet, currently showing as being born on February 13, 1937 and passing sometime in January 1999. (The birth date has somewhere shown as 1911, but I cannot verify that.)

That's a great set. I no longer have it, but hopefully, I'll stumble upon another copy down the road.

[Modernistfan]

Regarding that recording of the Mozart Clarinet Concerto praised in Fanfare, I suspect that it is Jost Michaels with the Westphalian Symphony Orchestra conducted by Hubert Reichert. This was indeed on Vox Allegretto ACD 8013; it is now available on Vox's "burn-to-order" program, but is expensive ($20.00 for a CD that originally sold for something like $4.99 or even cheaper). It is now also available, a bit cheaper ($9.99), from ArkivMusic in their reissue program.

[Holden Fourth]

While we're talking about performers who had LPs released under assumed names for contractual reasons the pianist Paul Procopolis comes to mind. What I've read suggests very strongly that this is actually Sergio Fiorentino. Can anyone confirm this?

[sfbugala]

Regarding that recording of the Mozart Clarinet Concerto praised in Fanfare, I suspect that it is Jost Michaels with the Westphalian Symphony Orchestra conducted by Hubert Reichert. This was indeed on Vox Allegretto ACD 8013; it is now available on Vox's "burn-to-order" program, but is expensive ($20.00 for a CD that originally sold for something like $4.99 or even cheaper). It is now also available, a bit cheaper ($9.99), from ArkivMusic in their reissue program.

That was the one I thought of, too. Maybe I'll finally check it out.

[Gary]

Deleted

[pizza]

There's nothing new about fictitious orchestras, or for that matter fictitious conductors. Copyright laws and conductors' contracts impelled some producers to indulge. In the early days of LP, the RCA Camden label offered quite a few such recordings; somewhere there's a list of the correct names of those orchestras. I suppose if one has the time and energy to track them down, the same can be done for almost any recording.

I'm still trying to discover who the real conductor(s) is/are in a great 2 CD set of Mahler Symphony 1, Shostakovich Symphony 5, Stravinsky Firebird and Debussy La Mer that was marketed by the now defunct Lys label as L'Art d' Ernest Borsamsky. The performances, allegedly by the Berlin and Leipzig RSOs and recorded between 1947 and 1949 are way too good to be by an unknown conductor and "Ernest Borsamsky" isn't listed in Holmes or in any other reference book.

Oh yeah, Camden had some weird ones. I think my favorite was the Cromwell SO for the Cincinnatti Symphony.

But the Borsamsky reference brings us to a weirder, frustrating, but ultimately fascinating realm: the world of unknowns. It's conceivable that some conductors could assemble a great recording or two...or even more. We just can't find them.

I found this about Borsamsky just now:

2004 Update: Michigan reader John Coughlin directed my attention to a letter that appeared in the Spring 2001 Classical Record Collector, whose publisher kindly made it available. An Austrian researcher had written that Borsamsky indeed existed – he was concertmaster of an orchestra in the Balkans and was invited to Leipzig by Abendroth, who had met him while on tour. Borsamsky conducted throughout Germany, including Berlin, Cologne and Frankfurt, and for a time was based in Brussels. He specialized in French and Russian repertoire as well as modern Belgian and Polish music and garnered glowing reviews for "his sense of color, attention to detail and vital, energetic direction." However, even in this account some mystery remains – the researcher reported that he could find no further evidence of Borsamsky's existence after the early 1950s.

http://www.classicalnotes.net/columns/kabasta.html

If you look at a few previous posts, you'll see that this "update" has already been posted here twice. But thanks anyway.

[Gary]

Oops.