BEST BRUCKNER 9?

[hangos]

Which recording of Bruckner's 9th would you recommend as the best?
Barenboim?Karajan?Wand?Giulini?Walter?who else?............
I look forward to your ideas!
Martin

[stenka razin]

Hangos, either of Karajan's performances would be preferable. Karajan makes you 'feel' this music most memorably.

[Heck148]

Which recording of Bruckner's 9th would you recommend as the best?

tough competition is this work -

Walter/CSO definitely in the running, same with
Solti/CSO

I also like Giulini.

vonMatacic and Mravinsky are good too, same with Barenboim/CSO

[Chalkperson]

Wand BPO
Harnoncourt
Mravinsky
Walter

[pizza]

Furtwangler's 1944 BPO performance on Music & Arts.

[Ralph]

Wand, again, for me.

[sfbugala]

There's a lot of great ones. I like the Wand one from Japan: http://classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=4195

[Corlyss_D]

I can't even begin to imagine such a thing as the best Bruckner! I can say that because Barry is out of town and not likely to see it.

[CharmNewton]

Walter/Columbia Symphony
Giulini/Chicago Symphony (EMI)
Dohnanyi/Cleveland Orchestra

Walter is an ideal balance of warmth, lyricism and fire. His Scherzo is demonic and the orchestra is flying with him.

Giulini's recording from 1976 captures him at his peak and the recording captures the power and impact of the CSO, which was awesome to hear in the hall. His second recording is slower and the Vienna brass sound coarse in double and triple forte passages.

I bought the Dohnanyi on the same day I bought the Giulini/VPO recording. It's about 11 minutes faster than the latter and isn't cut or rushed. It just blazes and I've never heard the clarity of the orchestration better realized than here. A thrilling performance.

John

[anasazi]

#1 is Walter and the Columbia Symphony
#2 is Haitink and the Concertgebow Orchestra

[val]

Giulini with the Vienna Philharmonic is my choice. Slow, with an almost supernatural beauty, but also very human. The third movement is terrible and depressive, but unforgetable.

Furtwängler (1944, BPO) gave here is best recording of Bruckner. The last movement, in special the coda, has a tenderness not very usual with this conductor. The Scherzo is the best I ever heard, with an extreme violence.

Eduard van Beinum was an extraordinary interpreter of Bruckner. More dramatic and contrasted than other conductors he avoids the changes of tempo, usual in Furtwängler, Jochum or Mravinsky. However, I think that the last movement has not the same spirituality of Giulini or Furtwängler.

[Sator]

I agree that the Furtwängler 1944 Berliner recording is also top of my list. I also have a wonderful live recording by Karajan and the Vienna Phil. from about 1975.

The Giulini is also excellent. I love Walter, usually, but here he is not my top choice.

[gfweis]

I now usually prefer what has been called the more "subjective" approach to this symphony, perhaps initiated by Furtwangler, as opposed to the more "objective" approach of Schuricht, Horenstein, and van Beinum, to name three especially excellent examples of the latter. (Horenstein's BBCNSO live 1970 recording is better than his earlier one with the VSO). So I favor:

1. Jochum/BPO (superior to his later one with the SKD on EMI)

Furtwangler is always required hearing in Bruckner, and although it may be a slight heresy to say so, I think his first movement is a bit too self-consciously pushed and pulled. It might have been very effective heard live, however. Jochum follows the style of the 1944 Furtwangler, but I believe Jochum is more effective at maintaining tension throughout. He has a great grip on his virtuoso orchestra, and an overall conception of the work that never flags for one moment.

2. Haitink/RCO (1982), whom most would typically put in the "objective" category for his Bruckner, has here a No. 9 that unfolds so naturally and beautifully, and is so gloriously played by the Concergebouw, that I just love it (I have it on lp).

3. Kubelik/BRSO (live) (Orfeo). A performance much like Jochum's. Then again, he was conducting Jochum's old orchestra, and they had this symphony in their bones. Tight and propulsive, but highly---and effectively---inflected.

4. Tintner/SNO. Big, but not over-played---a nice trick here. Brucknerian simplicity and directness in spades, and the orchestra in great form. (They play like they think they're the Chicago symphony circa 1970). There's always some Schubert in Tintner's Bruckner, and it works.
I prefer the Tintner to the highly-touted Wand (Lubeck Cathedral) and to the more willful Eichorn.

Leitner/SW German Radio-Stuttgart (live, 1983,Hanssler) has a great Bruckner 9th. He's one of the most under-appreciated conductors, and, like Tintner, seems to have the Bruckner idiom down pat. Another one very much worth hearing (that one might not expect) is the Mravinsky/Leningrad (live, 1982) (Icone). A very exciting Bruckner 9th in the faster, more "objective" tradition was recorded live in 1944 by Oswald Kabasta/Munich Phil. (Dante Lys).

[gfweis]

Pardon my senior moment. The Wand Bruckner Sym. No. 9 I had was with the BPO. His Lubeck Cathedral performance was of course of the Sym. No. 8, with the NDRSO.

[pizza]

Pardon my senior moment. The Wand Bruckner Sym. No. 9 I had was with the BPO. His Lubeck Cathedral performance was of course of the Sym. No. 8, with the NDRSO.

Wand also recorded the 9th with the NDRSO in Lubeck Cathedral.

[gfweis]

pizza...I didn't know that! I'd like to hear that one. Thanks.

[pizza]

pizza...I didn't know that! I'd like to hear that one. Thanks.

This link may be of interest:

http://www.abruckner.com/recordings/notes.htm?id=4394

[TopoGigio]

I had an LP with a big egyptian hyerogliph at the cover for the 9#...somebody remember
it

[Barry]

I can't even begin to imagine such a thing as the best Bruckner! I can say that because Barry is out of town and not likely to see it.

He's back in town now.

Giulini/VPO is my top pick. It's slow, but the VPO sounds like my prototype of what a Bruckner orchestra should sound like in this recording.

Other very good ones are Jochum/BPO on DG, Walter/Columbia Symphony and Furtwangler/BPO. I'm not normally a huge fan of Furtwangler's Bruckner, but this 9th is fantastic, if not in very good sound.

[jserraglio]

Eduard van Beinum is near the top for me too. also Walter NYPSO (live 1953).

http://www.abruckner.com once posted a fascinating "composite finale" to the Ninth by a Mr. John Proffitt . . . .

"What I have attempted to do is produce through digital editing a composite of the 1992 Samale-Mazucca-Philips-Cohrs performing edition of the Finale, up to the coda, with the freely-composed coda of Peter Jan Marthe's Finale to the Bruckner Ninth.

Specifically, measures 1-578 (Letter "W") of SMPC 1992, as recorded by the Linz Bruckner Orchestra, Kurt Eichhorn conducting. Then, measures 579-end, Bruckner 9 Finale Coda by Peter Jan Marthe, as recorded by the European Philharmonic Orchestra, Marthe conducting.

Why did I do this? Curiosity. Marthe's very Bruckner-focused imagination seemed to me misplaced in rewriting the main torso of the Finale, where Bruckner's intent is for the most part clear. On the other hand, the coda is the most conjectural portion of the movement, so Marthe's flight-of-fancy is to me more acceptable. And he is an excellent Brucknerian composer, so "his" coda really pulls out all of the stops to cap off Bruckner's last thoughts with a really, really grand hymn of praise. Your mileage may vary...

[CharmNewton]

Eduard van Beinum is near the top for me too. also Walter NYPSO (live 1953).

http://www.abruckner.com once posted a fascinating "composite finale" to the Ninth by a Mr. John Proffitt . . . .

I inadvertently omitted this performance from my short list.

Thanks for the link to the Bruckner discography. The timings of the various recordings are quite interesting, although I'm not sure they are always on the mark (it's quite common to see variations in timings between LPs and CDs of the same recording on commercial pressings and some of the entries here look a little too identical).

I was particularly interested in the 1941 recording of the Bruckner 8th attributed to Bruno Walter. I bought this LP when it was first issued and after listening had strong doubts as to its being a Walter performance. Granted it is from 1941 and the Walter from this period sounds different from the Walter of 10-20 years later, but the phrasing in the strings just does not sound like Walter as heard on commercial recordings of the same period. The CD of this performance (from the same source as the LPs) shows a total timing 3 minutes longer than the LPs. I never sought out the CD, but now will do so.

John

[johnQpublic]

I grew up on Walter and have always found it satisfying. The scherzo is a very "angry", "fist-shaking" account. Love it!!

[Cyril Ignatius]

Wand and Abbado have great recordings of the Bruckner Ninth.

[hangos]

A big thankyou to all of you who shared your top recommendations for this wonderful symphony!
I've just taken delivery of Wand's 1998 account with the Berlin Philharmonic on RCA Red Seal, and I am totally impressed - the music just seems to flow and swell naturally, I have been missing out on Wand's recordings for all this time. As you have all made clear, however, there is room for more than one recording .......
Martin

[Heck148]

I've been giving a intense listen recently to a Bruckner 9 I've had for quite some time. I've always liked it and regarded it highly, but I'm elevating it to perhaps my favorite - it is the
Solti/CSO. on London.

Solti's Bruckner tends to be controversial, it seems listeners either love it or hate it..
I love it - I love the huge sonorities, the ripping and powerful brass work, varied articulations, the extreme dynamics [yes, he gets it very soft when needed], the driving momentum and the connection of the episodic sections......

I rank his #3,6,7,8 and 9 amongst the very greatest, the virtuoso orchestral work is a great positive throughout.

his #9 is really remarkable - perhaps most for the gaining of momentum throughout the piece - the first mvt is esp well done, with a massive sonorous climax. as always, Solti does not let Bruckner get too episodic, too choppy, with seemingly unrelated disparate sections clumped together, a constant challenge with Bruckner.

the scherzo is wonderfully demonic and vital..the soft WW [oboe and clarinet] tunes contrasting with the shattering blasts of the brass as the scherzo bounces along...

it is the finale that is perhaps the crowning achievement - here Solti really shows his talent for developing the long line, the slowly growing crescendo to mighty climax, a talent he showed early on with his Decca VPO Wagner Ring set, and which he maintained throughout his career..the great climactic horn/trumpet calls are expansive and sonorous, with huge and brilliant brass sound...
the final fortissimo [c. 21:45] is simply gut-wrenching it its yearning, desperation...incredible full-toned sostenuto from the brass, which is truly stellar throughout..
the brass sound is amazing, unmatched by any other orchestra - one hears the blazing brilliance of the trumpets, the hefty "socko"
power of the bass trombone/tuba, plus the full ringing tenor of the high trombones and horns...the soft choirs are full, smooth and legato..
this is definitely the "anti-organ" approach to Bruckner, which I greatly favor. there's no way an organ can produce the variety of sonorities achieved by the CSO's brass. this is obviously intentional on Solti's part

special mention must be made of the Wagner tubas - the playing is superb thtoughout the recording - the long ensemble phrases are beautifully blended and balanced. the lead player [Gail Wiliams??] is phenonemal - floating the sound above the ensemble with lovely unforced tone and perfect legato...these treacherous instruments are notoriusly unstable, and if one wants to look for errors in a Bruckner performance - the Wagner tuben is the obvious place to start - there is almost always a slurp or a bloop in there somewhere or an inner voice protruding out of balance...
not here, tho...the playing is delicious...
I know Solti's Bruckner is not everyone's cup of tea, but I love it, and it is very thrilling....[and it's not all just loud ]

[maestrob]

Good morning!

Hangos, either of Karajan's performances would be preferable. Karajan makes you 'feel' this music most memorably.

Agree that Karajan is the preferred conductor for this symphony. I also like the Bruno Walter/Columbia VERY much: grew up with that one.

Wand's Berlin IX lacks authority and cohesion: the orchestra is great, but I get the impression the performance was underrehearsed and it lacks that final stamp of authority. OTOH, Wand's Berlin IV is magnificent: he gets the tempo right where he wants it in each musical idea.

[david johnson]

karajan/berlin
giulini/chicago

dj

[hangos]

A massive thank you to all of you for your very interesting recommendations!
Martin

[Heck148]

giulini/chicago

yes, great recording...I also still enjoy Walter/ColSO. my first exposure to the work..

[anasazi]

giulini/chicago

yes, great recording...I also still enjoy Walter/ColSO. my first exposure to the work..

The Walter CSO is still my choice, but I haven't kept up. Is the Giulini sllllloooowww? I think I may give it a listen in any case. No doubt improved sound and all.

[Heck148]

The Walter CSO is still my choice, but I haven't kept up. Is the Giulini sllllloooowww?

no, it is pretty much mainstream...very powerfully done...

[John F]

Furtwängler/Berlin Phil.