Bryden Thomson´s RVW cycle on Chandos

[Trilisser]

What´s the general consensus (if there is one) on the above cycle on Vaughan Williams´s symphonies? I have only the 6th and I do like it a lot.

[Lance]

What´s the general consensus (if there is one) on the above cycle on Vaughan Williams´s symphonies? I have only the 6th and I do like it a lot.

First of all, WELCOME TO THE BOARD, J.J.! We're delighted you are here and hope you will be a regular participant!

While I am not a total Vaughan Williams fan, I do enjoy some of his work. Insofar as his symphonies are concerned, I felt I have never gone wrong with one of the great conductors who has championed ALL his symphonies, Sir Adrian Boult. A boxed set is available of all these symphonies on EMI [73924, 8 CDs], which includes other orchestral works and his Concerto for Two Pianos (with Vronsky & Babin, pianists).

Beyond that, I have enjoyed recordings of the Fourth by Dimitri Mitropoulos, Leonard Bernstein, Barbirolli, and Stokowski (in various symphonies they have recorded). But a complete edition by someone like Boult gives you the "big picture" of all his symphonies by someone who performed them a great deal, and recorded them as well.

[pizza]

I have Bryden Thomson's LSO/Chandos performance of the 7th, Sinfonia Antartica which also has Toward the Unknown Region, A Song for Chorus and Orchestra, and both are very well played and recorded.

[slofstra]

I'm quite a RVW fan, and have the Vernon Handley cycle. I have a number of individual symphonies, but none with Thomson. I do have his Dona Nobis Pacem which is my second favourite after Best.

So I guess I'm being no help at all on your specific question. Since it does look as if you are looking for a complete cycle of RVW symphonies, be aware of the new 30 CD RVW set on EMI including the complete Handley cycle at a bargain price.Search for "Collector's Edition Vaughan Williams" at any of the online web stores.

[Corlyss_D]

What´s the general consensus (if there is one) on the above cycle on Vaughan Williams´s symphonies? I have only the 6th and I do like it a lot.

Welcome to the boards, Tril. Kick your shoes off and set a spell.

Get the EMI reasonably priced Boult set. They are classics. There are no finer interpretations, period.

[slofstra]

What´s the general consensus (if there is one) on the above cycle on Vaughan Williams´s symphonies? I have only the 6th and I do like it a lot.

Welcome to the boards, Tril. Kick your shoes off and set a spell.

Get the EMI reasonably priced Boult set. They are classics. There are no finer interpretations, period.

I have Boult's sym 4 and 6; personally I prefer Handley's version and they are also in much better sound. For $40 you can get the Boult - RVW cycle. For $57 you can have the Handley cycle PLUS 23 more CDs of everything under the sun including a significant amount of Boult.
Or buy both, two complete symphony cycles plus everything else, for only a little more than the Thomson set. And did I mention the steak knives?

[Corlyss_D]

And did I mention the steak knives?

Post of the Day Award to ya, Henry.

[stenka razin]

What´s the general consensus (if there is one) on the above cycle on Vaughan Williams´s symphonies? I have only the 6th and I do like it a lot.

Welcome to the boards, Tril. Kick your shoes off and set a spell.

Get the EMI reasonably priced Boult set. They are classics. There are no finer interpretations, period.

Corylss, thumbs Up! You got that right, my friend......... ****+

[anasazi]

I will go on record as claiming the Thomson set (I have them as individual entries) as the best RVW on recordings I've yet heard - so far. But I haven't heard them all. Of those I am comparing against, Boult is just a little stodgy for me, either set actually. I like the Previn set better, but RCA really messed-up the CDs re-issue, otherwise I might like that set even a bit better (for musical reasons). I don't have all the Handley symphonies, but I do intend to try and give them a listen.

So I can say at least, I've been listening to RVW for a number of years, he is probably what I might call a favorite composer. I really can't even name all of the other versions, not always complete that I have heard, from Barbirolli recordings to a few live performances. Bottom line is if you can stomach the somewhat standard sound of Chandos digital, the Thomson recordings are worth a listen. I would begin with the 5th, I think it the best of the group.

[slofstra]

What about the Haitink cycle? I have only the 8th and 9th, but has anyone given the complete cycle a listen. I generally like what Haitink does with just about everything - I have some Bruckner, and the Shostakovich and Beethoven cycles. He's very strong on structure - although Vaughan Williams is not a highly structured composer, so that may not matter.
Any thoughts?

[slofstra]

And did I mention the steak knives?

Post of the Day Award to ya, Henry.

Wow, nice shiny trophy. I will try to not get any fingerprints on it while it's in my possession.

[Corlyss_D]

And did I mention the steak knives?

Post of the Day Award to ya, Henry.

Wow, nice shiny trophy. I will try to not get any fingerprints on it while it's in my possession.

Oh, it's yours to keep. Ralph uses them as door stops. I think John left his in Bamberg because they exceeded the air line weight limit.

[absinthe]

Oh, it's yours to keep. Ralph uses them as door stops. I think John left his in Bamberg because they exceeded the air line weight limit.

But ok, trying to keep to the topic, if I were to undergo penance for all the wrong notes I've played throughout my life and had to choose one set, I'd go for the Boult. He knew Vaughan Williams well and no doubt listened to what the composer thought.

However, it's worth mentioning Barbirolli's recordings of the 7th and 8th and Previn's of the 6th. Though I also like Boult's 6th for the British Council, an aged recording but so what? His anyone played the Epilogue with such bleakness?

[DavidRoss]

I will go on record as claiming the Thomson set (I have them as individual entries) as the best RVW on recordings I've yet heard - so far. But I haven't heard them all. Of those I am comparing against, Boult is just a little stodgy for me, either set actually. I like the Previn set better, but RCA really messed-up the CDs re-issue, otherwise I might like that set even a bit better (for musical reasons). I don't have all the Handley symphonies, but I do intend to try and give them a listen.

So I can say at least, I've been listening to RVW for a number of years, he is probably what I might call a favorite composer. I really can't even name all of the other versions, not always complete that I have heard, from Barbirolli recordings to a few live performances. Bottom line is if you can stomach the somewhat standard sound of Chandos digital, the Thomson recordings are worth a listen. I would begin with the 5th, I think it the best of the group.

So far, you seem to be the only one who has even heard the full Thomson cycle, so thanks for your comments. I have only the Handley set, but among the separate issues I own Thomson's 5th is a favorite, largely for its clarity of texture and orchestral detail. I also like Previn's somewhat more rousing 5th and his London Symphony is another favorite, so much so that I've contemplated purchasing the cycle. How did RCA "mess-up" the re-issue?

[Chalkperson]

But ok, trying to keep to the topic, if I were to undergo penance for all the wrong notes I've played throughout my life....

Edwin Fischer use to check into a Hotel and warn the Porter that his suitcase was very heavy, But why Maestro?...Because it contains all my wrong notes, came the reply...

[Tore]

What´s the general consensus (if there is one) on the above cycle on Vaughan Williams´s symphonies? I have only the 6th and I do like it a lot.

One of my absolute favourite recordings is the A Sea Symphony by Bryden Thomson. It really blows me away. It is THE desert island disc for me, and it was responsible for opening up my eyes to Vaughan Williams' music.

Tore
www.steenslid.com

[slofstra]

What´s the general consensus (if there is one) on the above cycle on Vaughan Williams´s symphonies? I have only the 6th and I do like it a lot.

One of my absolute favourite recordings is the A Sea Symphony by Bryden Thomson. It really blows me away. It is THE desert island disc for me, and it was responsible for opening up my eyes to Vaughan Williams' music.

Tore
http://www.steenslid.com

Have you heard VW's Dona Nobis Pacem, the Thomson rendition? Featuring Brian Rayner Cook and Canadian soprano Edith Wiens. She's fabulous on this recording.

[Tore]

What´s the general consensus (if there is one) on the above cycle on Vaughan Williams´s symphonies? I have only the 6th and I do like it a lot.

One of my absolute favourite recordings is the A Sea Symphony by Bryden Thomson. It really blows me away. It is THE desert island disc for me, and it was responsible for opening up my eyes to Vaughan Williams' music.

Tore
http://www.steenslid.com

Have you heard VW's Dona Nobis Pacem, the Thomson rendition? Featuring Brian Rayner Cook and Canadian soprano Edith Wiens. She's fabulous on this recording.

I have it, but it's been awhile since I listened to it. A good reason to dig it up again and re-listen to it though.

Tore
www.steenslid.com

[slofstra]

What´s the general consensus (if there is one) on the above cycle on Vaughan Williams´s symphonies? I have only the 6th and I do like it a lot.

One of my absolute favourite recordings is the A Sea Symphony by Bryden Thomson. It really blows me away. It is THE desert island disc for me, and it was responsible for opening up my eyes to Vaughan Williams' music.

Tore
http://www.steenslid.com

Have you heard VW's Dona Nobis Pacem, the Thomson rendition? Featuring Brian Rayner Cook and Canadian soprano Edith Wiens. She's fabulous on this recording.

I have it, but it's been awhile since I listened to it. A good reason to dig it up again and re-listen to it though.

Tore
http://www.steenslid.com

On that particular piece I prefer the lighter forces of Matthew Best and the Corydon Singers. Last night I watched the RVW documentary, 'O Thou Transcendent' which includes a number of impressive clips of a performance of 'A Sea Symphony' at the Proms. The impression I'm left with is that the larger the forces the better - for that piece.

For whatever reason, Dona Nobis Pacem is overlooked. I think it's one of his best pieces.

[karlhenning]

What about the Haitink cycle? I have only the 8th and 9th, but has anyone given the complete cycle a listen. I generally like what Haitink does with just about everything - I have some Bruckner, and the Shostakovich and Beethoven cycles. He's very strong on structure - although Vaughan Williams is not a highly structured composer, so that may not matter.
Any thoughts?

I don't think I have quite listened to Haitink's entire cycle, yet, Henry, but certainly most of it . . . and I do like all of what I've heard.

Cheers,
~Karl

[karlhenning]

For whatever reason, Dona Nobis Pacem is overlooked. I think it's one of his best pieces.

Agreed.

Cheers,
~Karl

[anasazi]

I will go on record as claiming the Thomson set (I have them as individual entries) as the best RVW on recordings I've yet heard - so far. But I haven't heard them all. Of those I am comparing against, Boult is just a little stodgy for me, either set actually. I like the Previn set better, but RCA really messed-up the CDs re-issue, otherwise I might like that set even a bit better (for musical reasons). I don't have all the Handley symphonies, but I do intend to try and give them a listen.

So I can say at least, I've been listening to RVW for a number of years, he is probably what I might call a favorite composer. I really can't even name all of the other versions, not always complete that I have heard, from Barbirolli recordings to a few live performances. Bottom line is if you can stomach the somewhat standard sound of Chandos digital, the Thomson recordings are worth a listen. I would begin with the 5th, I think it the best of the group.

So far, you seem to be the only one who has even heard the full Thomson cycle, so thanks for your comments. I have only the Handley set, but among the separate issues I own Thomson's 5th is a favorite, largely for its clarity of texture and orchestral detail. I also like Previn's somewhat more rousing 5th and his London Symphony is another favorite, so much so that I've contemplated purchasing the cycle. How did RCA "mess-up" the re-issue?

I guess I should not say they messed-up the entire set. Most of the symphonies are fine, but there is a really clumsy edit at the end of one of the movements of Symphony #4 (sorry, but I can't remember which movement right now). Also, after owning most of the original Previn/LSO version on their original LP formats, I thought the CD reissues did not sound AS GOOD as the vinyl. Maybe excepting Symphony #1. But on the plus side, this is one of the more inexpensive sets you can buy.

At sometime, I'll come into some money and invest in the Handley and the Haitink sets. But the Thomsen recordings are for the most part, satisfying enough for me, some of them just downright thrilling (#1, #5).

[slofstra]

At sometime, I'll come into some money and invest in the Handley and the Haitink sets.

The bargain 30 CD RVW set on EMI includes all the Handley symphonies. If you don't have the Handley symphonies already what are you waiting for?
There's also a lot of EMI material from the vaults that will likely never be available elsewhere. A complete Pilgrim's Progress, for example. A Boult-led Dona Nobis Pacem, and a great deal of Sir David Willcocks/Bach Choir choral material.

[slofstra]

For whatever reason, Dona Nobis Pacem is overlooked. I think it's one of his best pieces.

Agreed.

Cheers,
~Karl

Any feeling on the various cycles and how they stand up against one another, Karl?

[karlhenning]

Any feeling on the various cycles and how they stand up against one another, Karl?

My input must be a bit patchy here, Henry. I haven't heard the Thomson yet, but at an early point it was strongly recommended by a fellow whose musical opinion I value highly. I've got both the Handley and Haitink cycles, and enjoy them both entirely. I've got a few singletons conducted by Boult and Barbirolli, and have no complaints.

I have not revisited Previn, but (and probably no fault of his) decades ago it was Previn's recording which did not ignite me for RVW. I think it was just a time when my ears were keen for Other Things.

Cheers,
~Karl

[anasazi]

At sometime, I'll come into some money and invest in the Handley and the Haitink sets.

The bargain 30 CD RVW set on EMI includes all the Handley symphonies. If you don't have the Handley symphonies already what are you waiting for?
There's also a lot of EMI material from the vaults that will likely never be available elsewhere. A complete Pilgrim's Progress, for example. A Boult-led Dona Nobis Pacem, and a great deal of Sir David Willcocks/Bach Choir choral material.

Sorry, I was just kind of joking. I'm not broke, but another $50 for a complete set when I already have more than one?? I was thinking about that EMI set for certain, probably not for the last time either.

[slofstra]

At sometime, I'll come into some money and invest in the Handley and the Haitink sets.

The bargain 30 CD RVW set on EMI includes all the Handley symphonies. If you don't have the Handley symphonies already what are you waiting for?
There's also a lot of EMI material from the vaults that will likely never be available elsewhere. A complete Pilgrim's Progress, for example. A Boult-led Dona Nobis Pacem, and a great deal of Sir David Willcocks/Bach Choir choral material.

Sorry, I was just kind of joking. I'm not broke, but another $50 for a complete set when I already have more than one?? I was thinking about that EMI set for certain, probably not for the last time either.

Oh yeah, I see you've got Previn and Thomson and Boult too? But obviously you like RVW, so this set might be good for the 23 non-symphony CDs. I say "might be" because I haven't had a chance to listen to any of it yet.

[anasazi]

Henry, I need to look more closely at what is in the EMI set because I have a lot of RVW on vinyl already. Although I used to kind of be on automatic when it came to upgrading an old record for a CD, I have changed lately into someone who still appreciates black gold. But it is an apparently good deal and for someone with little or no RVW and who wants it all, then it is a great bargain.

I have the second Boult, but not the first.

[slofstra]

Today (or was it yesterday) I caught the last episode on RVW featured on BBC Composer of the Week. Too bad I missed the other shows in the set, but this last episode did focus on his late chorus works. The extract from Pilgrim's Progress sounded really promising. So I can hardly wait to play the Boult version of the opera on this bargain set.
Pilgrim's Progress has not found its niche yet. I suspect that it's great choral music, but may be difficult to stage, ever.

[Marc]

For whatever reason, Dona Nobis Pacem is overlooked. I think it's one of his best pieces.

Agreed.

I would like to agree also, but I can't .... because my 'knowledge' of Vaughan Williams' oeuvre is not sufficient.

What I do know, is that I like The Lark Ascending, the Fantasias on Tallis and on Greensleeves, and I've always liked the 2nd and 3rd movement of his 2nd symphony ('London').
But of all the works I've heard so far, his Dona nobis pacem is my favourite. Heard it for the first time in a concert in my college years, and immediately went to the library to hire a copy. It was the Bryden Thomson recording, brand new, with a magnificent Edith Wiens, and I still cherish it.

[slofstra]

For whatever reason, Dona Nobis Pacem is overlooked. I think it's one of his best pieces.

Agreed.

I would like to agree also, but I can't .... because my 'knowledge' of Vaughan Williams' oeuvre is not sufficient.

What I do know, is that I like The Lark Ascending, the Fantasias on Tallis and on Greensleeves, and I've always liked the 2nd and 3rd movement of his 2nd symphony ('London').
But of all the works I've heard so far, his Dona nobis pacem is my favourite. Heard it for the first time in a concert in my college years, and immediately went to the library to hire a copy. It was the Bryden Thomson recording, brand new, with a magnificent Edith Wiens, and I still cherish it.

Yes, that's a wonderful version. Edith Wiens is Canadian, incidentally. She makes that particular recording as far as I'm concerned. You might look for Matthew Best's version if you ever consider getting a second copy.
The Five Mystical Songs are also quite wonderful, aren't they?

I think the selection of the Walt Whitman text in DNP is particularly inspired, and so moving. I'm not sure why this piece is not more in the foreground. For example, it is barely mentioned in UVW's biography, and not mentioned at all in 'O Thou Transcendent', the recent DVD documentary on the life of RVW. Here is the reason I think. RVW was putting a great deal of energy into Pilgrim's Progress over many years. I wonder if DNP was a fairly quick commission that came out of music already in hand or in his head. As it stands, DNP is performed quite often, Pilgrim's Progress hardly at all.

The other Whitman text he set was 'Toward the Unknown Region', also a fine piece.

In a similar mould is Gerald Finzi's Intimations of Immortality. If you enjoy DNP I would look this one up; you will notice RVW's influence. Last time I looked berkshirerecordoutlet.com had the Matthew Best version on sale.

[anasazi]

Henry, don't forget the Walt Whitman text in 'A Sea Symphony' also. RVW really had a great fondness for Whitman didn't he? Maybe it was that Whitman's verse did not restrict him so much musically? I don't mean the meaning or essence, simply the rhythm and the accents of the words.

The Five Mystical Songs is close to my favorite RVW vocal work. (The other one is Hodie). I even have the piano vocal score to extemporize on when I'm in the mood. "Easter" and "The Call" are two of my favorite songs by RVW.

Oh, yes, I see - that is the companion piece on the Dona Nobis Pacem CD by Thomson. A very excellent album all the way around in my opinion.

[Marc]

The other Whitman text he set was 'Toward the Unknown Region', also a fine piece.

In a similar mould is Gerald Finzi's Intimations of Immortality. If you enjoy DNP I would look this one up; you will notice RVW's influence. Last time I looked berkshirerecordoutlet.com had the Matthew Best version on sale.

Slofstra, thanks for your comments and suggestions, but OMG, there is an awful lot of music I still have to listen to. Why can't we humans live on for about two centuries?
On second thought: I'm afraid that would not be sufficient, either . My problem is: I enjoy listening to music from the early Medieval up to .... now.

[slofstra]

Henry, don't forget the Walt Whitman text in 'A Sea Symphony' also. RVW really had a great fondness for Whitman didn't he? Maybe it was that Whitman's verse did not restrict him so much musically? I don't mean the meaning or essence, simply the rhythm and the accents of the words.

The Five Mystical Songs is close to my favorite RVW vocal work. (The other one is Hodie). I even have the piano vocal score to extemporize on when I'm in the mood. "Easter" and "The Call" are two of my favorite songs by RVW.

Oh, yes, I see - that is the companion piece on the Dona Nobis Pacem CD by Thomson. A very excellent album all the way around in my opinion.

Both reflect the optimism of the age - Whitman in America and VW in England. In 'O Thou Transcendent' Palmer dwells on the darker side of VW's music in order to counteract the image of a pastoral paradise with which his music is mostly associated. According to Palmer VW's music is preoccupied with death. But actually I believe it's main preoccupation is life and energy in the face of death. As with Whitman.

His use of Whitman's text also puts the lie to VW's music being strictly English. No doubt he drew on English musical themes but the reach of his music is much broader.

[slofstra]

The other Whitman text he set was 'Toward the Unknown Region', also a fine piece.

In a similar mould is Gerald Finzi's Intimations of Immortality. If you enjoy DNP I would look this one up; you will notice RVW's influence. Last time I looked berkshirerecordoutlet.com had the Matthew Best version on sale.

Slofstra, thanks for your comments and suggestions, but OMG, there is an awful lot of music I still have to listen to. Why can't we humans live on for about two centuries?
On second thought: I'm afraid that would not be sufficient, either . My problem is: I enjoy listening to music from the early Medieval up to .... now.

Of course, the alternative would be to run out. There's a constant tension between exploring and listening to new music or digging deeper in familiar territory. Too much of one or the other is not good. Lately, I've felt more like staying home and not covering so much new ground. So Martinu and Myakovsky are going to have to wait while I spend more time with the chamber music of Schubert and Mendlessohn, not to mention some new Brahms and Beethoven symphony sets.