Rachmaninoff third Piano Concerto

[Steinway]

Of all my many cds of this work. I always returned to the Martha Argerich 1982 on Philips as the definitive interpretation.

Today I revisited the Van Cliburn live performance with Kondrashin from 1958 and it's now tied for number one on my list. Absolutely superb and it reminds me of how sad it is that such a wonderful talent chose to have such a short career.

Anyone top these two?

[Guitarist]

I have a live recording by Gyorgy Sokolov that might! It's electrifying, and unlike Argerich, he plays the heavier cadenza, which I prefer.

[Chalkperson]

Santiago Rodriguez and the Lake Forest Symphony conducted by Paul McCrea is a really great and powerful reading, I love Cliburn a lot and Argerich not quite as much, but this guy's good too...

[andrevazpereira]

I recently eared two great performances. One was Gutierres and the other on e was the portuguese pianist Artur Pizarro (Leeds competition winner). Both should be listen more often...

Greetings from Portugal

[mnmleung]

Andrei Gavrilov's early Melodiya recording was a favourite for a long time. He also played the heavier cadenza. Unfortunately I no longer have the LP. I bought one second hand but its speed was off.

Lazar Berman with Abbado was great, but I only borrowed the CD. I had tickets to hear him play it in London, but he was replaced by Howard Shelley.

Emil Gilels is also a favourite.

I just received a box of 5 CDs of Sokolov and I really enjoy him. I think I saw him on youtube playing the Rakhmaninov 3rd.

[Steinway]

I have Pizzaro and he is a first rate artist. Also, love Guitierrez and don't have his Rach 3. Where is he hiding? Haven't seen his name for a long while in these parts. Have you heard his Brahms 2nd CD with Previn? A great recording.

[ch1525]

Santiago Rodriguez and the Lake Forest Symphony conducted by Paul McCrea is a really great and powerful reading.

I love this recording!!! I heard it live on the radio one time and it is what first really turned me onto this piece. I immediately sought out to purchase this recording. Actually, it's probably one of the first classical recordings I bought!

Also, love Guitierrez and don't have his Rach 3. Where is he hiding? Haven't seen his name for a long while in these parts. Have you heard his Brahms 2nd CD with Previn? A great recording.

Guitierrez is quite awesome. I have that recording along with the Brahms' PC #1. I actually heard him play it live with the Louisiana Phil Orch a few years ago.

[Lance]

How about the one with DAVID HELFGOTT with M. Horvat conducting the orchestra? [RCA 40378].

All kidding aside, one that has impressed me from its initial release is with Lazar Berman and Claudio Abbado conducting the London Symphony Orchestra [Sony Classical 37809]. Berman was absolutely in top form here. If you don't know this recording (and I'm not sure it's even in print any longer - maybe arkivmusic though], you owe it to yourself to give it a hearing.

We have one CMG member who allegedly has every (or almost every) recording ever made of this work. He's made it his goal to get every one.

I was also very much enamoured with the first recording ever made with Vladimir Horowitz for HMV/EMI, Albert Coates conducting (from the days of 78s). There's just so many wonderful performances of the Rach 3 that it would be hard to choose just one or two.

Of all my many cds of this work. I always returned to the Martha Argerich 1982 on Philips as the definitive interpretation.

Today I revisited the Van Cliburn live performance with Kondrashin from 1958 and it's now tied for number one on my list. Absolutely superb and it reminds me of how sad it is that such a wonderful talent chose to have such a short career.

Anyone top these two?

[Kevin R]

Berman/Abbado is my favorite. Also excellent, IMHO:

Janis/Munch

Wild/Horenstein

Gilels/Cluytens

Horowitz/Reiner

Malcuzynski/Kletzki

[Jppiano]

Hey, Lance

Who is the person on CMG who has tried to acquire every recording of Rach 3? There is a fellow in Kansas named Scott Colebank who, as far as I know, DOES have every recording ever made.

Oh, my top 5:

Horowitz/Coates (Electrifying without too many later Horowitz weirdnesses)

Cliburn/Kondrashin (Apollonian, beautiful and powerful - maybe Cliburn's best recording ever)

Berman/Abbado (granitic and a great cadenza)

Wld/Horenstein (VERY fast and exciting!)

Vasary/Ahronovich (Beautiful playing; a very underrated pianist)


Joe P.

[karlhenning]

Hey, Lance

Who is the person on CMG who has tried to acquire every recording of Rach 3?

Chap named Kwoon.

Cheers,
~Karl

[maestrob]

Of all my many cds of this work. I always returned to the Martha Argerich 1982 on Philips as the definitive interpretation.

Today I revisited the Van Cliburn live performance with Kondrashin from 1958 and it's now tied for number one on my list. Absolutely superb and it reminds me of how sad it is that such a wonderful talent chose to have such a short career.

Anyone top these two?

Nah, nobody tops those two, but some other equally good choices have been mentioned here.

I'm also fond of Howard Shelley, who plays the full concerto & the full cadenza w/no cuts.

Gutierrez is also another favorite of mine in Prokofiev concerti w/Jarvi: http://www.amazon.com/Prokofiev-The-Fiv ... 048&sr=1-2

[karlhenning]

I'm also fond of Howard Shelley, who plays the full concerto & the full cadenza w/no cuts.

Hear, hear!

Of course, there is an ossia for one of the cadenze . . . so everyone does need at least two recordings ; )

Cheers,
~Karl

[Auntie Lynn]

Alors, mes amis - I am a doer, not a dreamer. My Kalmus edition of Rocky III has 78 pages. Ergo, if you learn one page a day, you can learn it in under three months with about two weeks left over to generate the linear interpretation/concept - and for clean-up...go for it!

[THEHORN]

I recently borrowed the Telarc recording of the concerto with the much-maligned Lang Lang and Yuri Temirkanov and the St Petersburg Philharmomnic, live from Albert hall in London from my library, and despite all the critical sniping at Lang Lang, enjoyed it very much. Let's not write him off prematurely.
Also the correct name is Grigory Sokolov, not Gyorgy, which is a Hungarian and not a Russian name. Sokolov is Russian.
I'm not familiar with his playing, but I've heard a lot of good things about him.

[Cyril Ignatius]

Finding the definitive performance of Rachmaninoff's 3rd Piano Concerto is a huge undertaking, and most of us peasants can afford to own only a tiny percentage of the available recordings of any concerto. So we try to study the matter some, and then make one or two or a few good choices.

Here are a few:

- Volodos with Berlin
- Yefem Bronfman - with the New Philharmonie(??)
- Horowitz
- Watts

[maestrob]

Finding the definitive performance of Rachmaninoff's 3rd Piano Concerto is a huge undertaking, and most of us peasants can afford to own only a tiny percentage of the available recordings of any concerto. So we try to study the matter some, and then make one or two or a few good choices.

Here are a few:

- Volodos with Berlin
- Yefem Bronfman - with the New Philharmonie(??)
- Horowitz
- Watts

I have that Volodos/Levine/Berlin, and it is very fine indeed!

[Chalkperson]

I recently borrowed the Telarc recording of the concerto with the much-maligned Lang Lang and Yuri Temirkanov and the St Petersburg Philharmomnic, live from Albert hall in London from my library, and despite all the critical sniping at Lang Lang, enjoyed it very much. Let's not write him off prematurely.
Also the correct name is Grigory Sokolov, not Gyorgy, which is a Hungarian and not a Russian name. Sokolov is Russian.
I'm not familiar with his playing, but I've heard a lot of good things about him.

I think that most criticism of Lang Lang is based on the way he performs the music, not the way he plays it, I do not have his Rach 3 but his Beethoven and Chopin Concerto discs are very good, it's the showman aspect of him I could live without...

[Lance]

Chalkie makes a good point. I have never delved into the world of video or DVD performances, but, of course, have some, namely Rubinstein and David Oistrakh, Horowitz among others. I have been much more selective with videos and DVD acquisitions. I could be axed for saying this, but music is meant for listening, not necessarily watching. Opera is meant for both, listening and watching. Yes, it's grand to do both even in live concert performances, but, as we all know, some performing artists have characteristics that are very distracting and hard to view while concentrating on the music. Facial expressions, body movements can remove some of the joy of listening to music. I STILL believe, however, that nothing replaces the LIVE PERFORMANCE. Thankfully, we have so many live recordings that retain the electricity of the original performance without necessarily watching the performer(s). Many times at live performances, I simply close my eyes and wrap myself in the music. I will admit one advantage to viewing concerts/recitals, and that is watching how an artist works, to study a technique, or what-have-you. Pros and cons. For me, it is the listening that counts.

I recently borrowed the Telarc recording of the concerto with the much-maligned Lang Lang and Yuri Temirkanov and the St Petersburg Philharmomnic, live from Albert hall in London from my library, and despite all the critical sniping at Lang Lang, enjoyed it very much. Let's not write him off prematurely.
Also the correct name is Grigory Sokolov, not Gyorgy, which is a Hungarian and not a Russian name. Sokolov is Russian.
I'm not familiar with his playing, but I've heard a lot of good things about him.

I think that most criticism of Lang Lang is based on the way he performs the music, not the way he plays it, I do not have his Rach 3 but his Beethoven and Chopin Concerto discs are very good, it's the showman aspect of him I could live without...

[Lance]

Ming, can you give more information on the five-CD boxed set of SOKOLOV you mention, its contents, label and number?

Andrei Gavrilov's early Melodiya recording was a favourite for a long time. He also played the heavier cadenza. Unfortunately I no longer have the LP. I bought one second hand but its speed was off.

Lazar Berman with Abbado was great, but I only borrowed the CD. I had tickets to hear him play it in London, but he was replaced by Howard Shelley.

Emil Gilels is also a favourite.

I just received a box of 5 CDs of Sokolov and I really enjoy him. I think I saw him on youtube playing the Rakhmaninov 3rd.

[Chalkperson]

Ming, can you give more information on the five-CD boxed set of SOKOLOV you mention, its contents, label and number? [

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/alb ... _id=108525

Sokolov plays these highly concentrated pieces with poetry and tremendous atmosphere. Should anyone want evidence of a true genius at work then this set provides it.
One American critic recently described Sokolov’s playing as, “a kind of pianism, musicianship and artistry one thought had vanished forever”.

The Naïve label have compiled an impressive five disc collection of solo piano works performed by the maverick Russian pianist Grigory Sokolov. I note that the recordings have been previously released by Naïve on their Opus 111 label. I was a very late convert to the genius of Sokolov, coming across an unofficial recording of a simply awe-inspiring interpretation of the Rachmaninov Piano Concerto No.3 in D minor with the Stockholm Radio Symphony Orchestra under the Finnish conductor Tuomas Ollila. My information is that Sokolov’s performance was recorded at a BBC Proms Concert in 1995 but I am unsure if that is accurate. There are some sound problems which may provide the reason for its unavailability in the catalogues.

Grigory Lipmanovich Sokolov was born in St. Petersburg, Russia in 1950. At seven, he was admitted to the St. Petersburg Music Academy in Leah Zelikhman’s class. Sokolov graduated from the Leningrad Conservatory giving his first public recital at the age of 12. It is now over forty years since the 16-year-old Grigory Sokolov was awarded the Gold Medal at the world famous Third Tchaikovsky Piano Competition, in Moscow, in 1966; an award granted unanimously by a jury presided over by the eminent pianist Emil Gilels. Since 1975 Sokolov has been teaching at the Conservatory and is Professor at the Special Piano-playing Department.

It was not at all surprising that Sokolov became one of Russia’s best-kept musical secrets of the 1960s and 1970s during the constraints of the Soviet political system. Only since the political thaw in the 1980s, following the demise of the Soviet regime, has Sokolov been allowed to perform outside his home country.

He has gained an almost mythical status amongst music-lovers and pianophiles throughout the world and is now considered by many to be the world’s greatest living pianist. Sokolov is said to know more about a Steinway than many piano technicians, and before he sits down to play an unfamiliar piano, he first examines its inner mechanics, taking it to pieces. He is used to studying for many hours every day, and even on the day of a concert, practises on stage for hours, “getting to know” the piano. That he prefers his CDs to be recorded live is not surprising, since he likes to capture the sacred moments of a real, live concert and avoid the sterile atmosphere of a studio.

The first and second discs of this set contain the enigmatic The Art of the Fugue which was Bach’s most grandiose fugal project and demonstrate the full extent of his technical and creative resources. Although The Art of the Fugue is commonly played on the piano, Bach gave no clue to his intended instrumentation for the incomplete score. In Sokolov’s expert hands this sequence achieves a special purity and depth of feeling that demonstrates that it is not just a theoretical treatise, not merely a tour de force but music of unaccountable power of expression.

Bach’s six movement Partita No. 2 was written especially for the harpsichord in the tradition of the then fashionable dance suite. There is a dignity and strength to Sokolov’s playing and I am unable to imagine the work being performed better. Recorded in 1982 the piano timbre sounds especially appealing in both The Art of the Fugue and the Partita No.2 in the cool, clear and well balanced acoustic of the Gramzapis Studio in St. Petersburg.

Beethoven’s C major and G major Rondo’s, Op. 51 date from 1797 and 1800 respectively and are given performances of astonishing directness by the soloist. Sokolov’s playing is full of characteristic insights and never displays any tendency to beautify the music.

From 1795 the Rondo alla ingharese quasi un capriccio is famous owing to the enigmatic inscription ‘rage over a lost penny’ placed at the head of the score. Sokolov is authoritative and expressive in this agitated music that is so rich in mockery. His playing readily evokes the image of Beethoven’s anger and then his realisation of the absurdity of loosing his temper over such a trivial matter.

The Sonata No.4 in E flat major was originally designated as a ‘Grande Sonata’ and the work is indeed on a grand scale. It is good that Sokolov has taken up this E flat major score as it is seldom played as it ends so unsensationally on a intimate tender note. Sokolov plays this affectionate warm-hearted Sonata with a true Beethovian sensibility with a natural lyricism and a sharp musical insight. Sokolov is a thoroughly sensitive Beethovenian as his playing of brooding melancholy in the slow movement so aptly demonstrates. I especially enjoyed Sokolov’s interpretation of the short third movement allegro which is like a cross between a minuet and a scherzo. His commanding playing of the menacing triplets and the mysterious eruptions in the coda is simply outstanding.

The Sonata No. 28 in A major from 1816 comes from Beethoven’s final group of five Sonatas. Beethoven indicates for the first time on a score as being intended for ‘für Hammerklavier’, thus stressing the requirement for a modern style of interpretation.

Sokolov displays real empathy with Beethoven’s spiritual concepts that are encountered in these later Sonatas and also in his last String Quartets. Sokolov’s playing of the Chameleon-like score, with its ever-changing emotions and demands, is inspirational and at times the effect is breathtaking.

All the Beethoven scores were recorded at Villa dei Cedri, Cola di Lazise, in Italy in 1991. There is a touch of shallowness to the cool recording but on the whole the sound engineers have provided a decent sound.

The 24 Préludes Op. 28 are among Chopin’s greatest achievements. They represent a roller-coaster of moods that cover a tremendous variety of feelings. For sheer emotional expression they are at the peak of all his piano works. Chopin most likely used J.S. Bach’s ‘The Well-Tempered Clavier’ as a model; a set of 24 Preludes and Fugues that he admired. Not being a contrapuntalist Chopin decided on a cycle of préludes only, each in a different major and minor key. They were written to be played as a set, for the moods are all contrasting and follow each other fluidly.

Sokolov plays these highly concentrated pieces with poetry and tremendous atmosphere. I especially enjoyed Sokolov’s playing of the vigorous second prélude with its repetitive mechanistic tempo and the exquisite fourth prélude which is sweetly and languorously performed. Sokolov communicates a persuasive state of anxiety and depression in the fitful and jerky melody of the eighth prélude and the bright and vivacious eleventh prélude is striking performed. The explosive power of the sixteenth, eighteenth, twenty-second and the twenty-fourth préludes is impressively conveyed as is the atmosphere of serenity Sokolov creates in the twenty-third and twenty-ninth préludes. A well judged sound quality is achieved by the engineers.

The fifth and final CD contains Brahms’ Four Ballades Op. 10 and the Sonata No. 3 in F minor Op. 5. Sokolov builds up the drama of the first ballade entitled ‘Edward’ with tremendous power and the second ballade, which is full of contrast and is more of melodic than rhythmic, is played with considerable variety of expression. The third ballade entitled intermezzo takes the form of a scherzo and is interpreted with fine control. Sokolov is especially effective with the mysterious colour of the central trio. The extended fourth ballade, marked andante con moto, allows the pianist to be at his most contemplative, readily carrying the slower tempo with deeply sensitive playing.

The fruits of Brahms’ relative youth the Sonata No. 3 in F minor Op. 5 is a portent of his future powers. Sokolov gives a bold and immensely powerful reading of the dynamic character of the long opening movement. The andante espressivo has a tender nocturnal and lyrical nature which in these sensitive hands easily evokes a picture of two lovers during a passionate encounter. Sokolov’s portrayal of the third movement scherzo, so vitalised by discords, is outstanding and the solemn character of dark foreboding of the intermezzo is convincingly conveyed. In the tempestuous final movement Sokolov provides a thrilling performance of Olympian quality. The Ballades from 1992 and the Sonata from 1993 were recorded live at Salle Gaveau in Paris with the benefit of an outstanding sound quality.

It is possible to detect some minor audience noise during some of these performances but there is certainly nothing to worry about. I found the sound quality across these performances to vary from the very acceptable to excellent. There is a cool and clear sound which seems to be a trademark requirement for a Sokolov recording. The concise annotation, contained in the booklets of each of the respective CD jewel cases, is interesting and informative. It is difficult to give anything other than accolades for these sterling performances. Should anyone want evidence of a true genius at work then this set provides it. An outstanding release that is highly recommended.

-- Michael Cookson, MusicWeb International

[Guitarist]

For the record, the Sokolov Rachmaninov is not contained in that set--it's a live recording from the Proms last year that some kind soul posted in another forum.

[Lance]

Thank you, Chalkie ... very well done, indeed!

Ming, can you give more information on the five-CD boxed set of SOKOLOV you mention, its contents, label and number? [

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/alb ... _id=108525

[slofstra]

Volodos is my favourite. I also like Ashkenazy/ Previn. Argerich (Chailly/ BPO) is too wild for my taste, but perhaps there are multiple performances - mine is on the Great Pianists disc.

Speaking of watching and listening, I enjoy watching Olga Kern play the Rach 3. Nancy and I enjoy watching the DVD on the Van Cliburn Competition the year she won; we've seen it 3 or 4 times now. The complete performance of her Rach 3 is on the flip side. It's not in the same league as Volodos or Argerich, but she is a very charismatic and lovely performer. So watching can make a difference, Lance ... sometimes.
I've wondered if the other Van Cliburn Competition DVDs are as good as this one - anyone know?

[karlhenning]

At some length, I fear.

Cheers,
~Karl

[Febnyc]

Based upon comments on this thread, and my adoration of Volodos' transcriptions disc, yesterday I bought the Volodos Rach 3 concerto and today listened.

Volodos/Levine/BPO - and a label on the CD which screams, "one of the most extraordinary performances ever recorded!" Well, great anticipation as I removed the shrink wrap. And then...

I thought it fell short of the high bar. I am not sure why, exactly - but it didn't knock me out of my seat as I expected it to. This could be my favorite piano concerto and I revel it its power and lyricism. Oh, Volodos delivered both, but it's not my desert-island Rach 3. So far, I haven't found the ne plus ultra. The Argerich is manic and she exhibits super-human pianism, but - as Cole Porter wrote - it's too darn hot. Overly fast and the melodies get scrambled together somehow. A few others - Bolet, Janis, et al - simply left me wanting something more.

Maybe I need to get the Cliburn - I have his Rach 2 and love it.

[Werner]

Not a bad idea, Frank - I still have the original LP - remember it as on a par with anything I've heard.

[Febnyc]

Thanks, Werner - it will be ordered forthwith.

[Holden Fourth]

Hey, Lance

Who is the person on CMG who has tried to acquire every recording of Rach 3? There is a fellow in Kansas named Scott Colebank who, as far as I know, DOES have every recording ever made


Joe P.

Here is Kwoon's website

http://www.geocities.com/vienna/strasse/8618/

it's very interesting reading.

[ch1525]

Hey, Lance

Who is the person on CMG who has tried to acquire every recording of Rach 3? There is a fellow in Kansas named Scott Colebank who, as far as I know, DOES have every recording ever made

Joe P.

Here is Kwoon's website

http://www.geocities.com/vienna/strasse/8618/

it's very interesting reading.

I've seen his site before. I'm sooooo jealous of his collection. I wish I could hear all of those recordings!

[lmpower]

We saw a performance of "Rocky III" by Stephen Prutsman with the Redlands Symphony last night. This was a case of local boy returns home, as Prutman graduated from a high school a few miles from the concert hall. He brought it off with considerable panache and showmanship and put some feeling into the more soulful passages. The entire audience spontaneously jumped to their feet cheering at the final note. The conductor said that Prutsman is a poet. I don't believe he has recorded this concerto though. Do you have any thoughts about him?

[ch1525]

We saw a performance of "Rocky III" by Stephen Prutsman with the Redlands Symphony last night. This was a case of local boy returns home, as Prutman graduated from a high school a few miles from the concert hall. He brought it off with considerable panache and showmanship and put some feeling into the more soulful passages. The entire audience spontaneously jumped to their feet cheering at the final note. The conductor said that Prutsman is a poet. I don't believe he has recorded this concerto though. Do you have any thoughts about him?

What?! No bootleg recording to share with us?!? You're lucky. I've still yet to hear this concerto performed live.

[Madame]

How about the one with DAVID HELFGOTT with M. Horvat conducting the orchestra? [RCA 40378].

Careful, Lance -- someone may be looking down on you and hear you say that

[John F]

I haven't read every word of every post, but nobody appears to have mentioned this recording:

Rachmaninoff/Ormandy, Philadelphia Orchestra (1939-40)

The recording, audio only of course, can be heard on YouTube:



1. Allegro ma non troppo, parts 1 and 2


2. Intermezzo: Adagio; 3. Finale: Alla breve, part 1


3. Finale: Alla breve, part 2

The urgent tempos in the outer movements, the absence of sentimentality though certainly not of passion, poetry, and nobility, some balances between piano and orchestra, and brief cuts in all 3 movements plus a regrettably longer one in the finale, may seem surprising. And RCA Victor's recording, especially in the rather muddy-sounding 1939 sides (the 1940 sides are better), is kinder to the glamourous Philly sound than to Rachmaninoff's piano. But this is a really gripping performance. I'd think anyone who cares about this music should have it along with whatever modern version they prefer.

[slofstra]

Based upon comments on this thread, and my adoration of Volodos' transcriptions disc, yesterday I bought the Volodos Rach 3 concerto and today listened.

Volodos/Levine/BPO - and a label on the CD which screams, "one of the most extraordinary performances ever recorded!" Well, great anticipation as I removed the shrink wrap. And then...

I thought it fell short of the high bar. I am not sure why, exactly - but it didn't knock me out of my seat as I expected it to. This could be my favorite piano concerto and I revel it its power and lyricism. Oh, Volodos delivered both, but it's not my desert-island Rach 3. So far, I haven't found the ne plus ultra. The Argerich is manic and she exhibits super-human pianism, but - as Cole Porter wrote - it's too darn hot. Overly fast and the melodies get scrambled together somehow. A few others - Bolet, Janis, et al - simply left me wanting something more.

Maybe I need to get the Cliburn - I have his Rach 2 and love it.

Give the Volodos another chance, Frank. I think it is understated, but when you're in a totally serene absorbing state, his performance seems to bring out every note of the score. The ideal listening situation for me is my library, totally darkened, even dimming the faceplates of the stereo equipment.

[karlhenning]

The urgent tempos in the outer movements, the absence of sentimentality though certainly not of passion, poetry, and nobility . . . may seem surprising.

Yes, the composer himself sets a notable example of (to borrow Stravinsky's phrase) not sugaring the sugar.

Cheers,
~Karl

[karlhenning]

Give the Volodos another chance, Frank. I think it is understated, but when you're in a totally serene absorbing state, his performance seems to bring out every note of the score. The ideal listening situation for me is my library, totally darkened, even dimming the faceplates of the stereo equipment.

I'll need to give that one a go, Henry; all its elements pique my curiosity.

Cheers,
~Karl

[Febnyc]

Give the Volodos another chance, Frank. I think it is understated, but when you're in a totally serene absorbing state, his performance seems to bring out every note of the score. The ideal listening situation for me is my library, totally darkened, even dimming the faceplates of the stereo equipment.

Thanks, Henry - I have listened three times now. I agree that it is understated - and perhaps that's my problem with Volodos' performance. I don't want Rachmaninoff to be understated; on the contrary, I want his music played with schmaltz and I want the lushness and Russian-ness overdone. I feel the same way about the symphonies and even the chamber works. The Cello Sonata has to be reaching the heights of lyricism when that slow theme emerges (interestingly, Volodos plays a transcription of this on the Concerto CD - and I think it is too gentle, too careful).

I'll keep searching...

[karlhenning]

I don't want Rachmaninoff to be understated; on the contrary, I want his music played with schmaltz and I want the lushness and Russian-ness overdone.

Again:

The urgent tempos in the outer movements, the absence of sentimentality though certainly not of passion, poetry, and nobility . . . may seem surprising.

Cheers,
~Karl

[John F]

Listening to Rachmaninoff's recording with the score, I'm struck by how often he goes beyond what he had written down 30 years earlier, resulting in greater expressivity and sometimes terrific excitement.

The full score can be downloaded for free at this site:

http://imslp.org/index.php?title=Piano_ ... f,_Sergei)

For example the march-like passage toward the end of the finale, when the orchestra diminishes from ff to p with the drumbeat figure and the piano takes it up for a very long crescendo back to ff. There's an accelerando marked in the score, "poco a poco," and Horowitz in his extaordinary recording with Fritz Reiner plays it as marked. (Horowitz is said to have been Rachmaninoff's preferred interpreter of the concerto.) Rachmaninoff, however, starts the passage rather slower, begins the accelerando much earlier than marked, and winds up at a hair-raising pace. Wow!

If anyone but the composer had done this, I'm sure people would be tut-tutting about self-indulgent liberties with the written music. But this departure from the text has the composer's own sanction, obviously. I'd be curious to know whether any other players do likewise or whether, as in the Prokofiev case I described in another thread, they reject the composer's recorded performance in favor of the printed text.

For those who want to make the comparison themselves, here's Horowitz/Reiner on YouTube:



Besides Rachmaninoff's own, this is the recording I play most often. Unbelievable stuff. And for those who'd like to see Horowitz doing it, here's a video clip from his New York Philharmonic performance of 1978. At the end of this passage he shakes his left fist in the air to celebrate bringing it off. Not bad for a 75-year-old!

[lmpower]

I am surprised at how fast Rachmaninoff's tempo is in the opening passage. He really does give it a sense of urgency, but is it as poignant, brooding and haunting as a slower tempo?

[John F]

Different tempos have different effects, and Rachmaninoff's isn't the only way his music can be played. That said, it may be that stressing a "poignant, brooding and haunting" quality plays down aspects of the music that are less obvious but possibly at least as important.

In the BBC's marvelous series "Discovering Music," which offers commentary with musical examples on many major classical pieces, program on Rach 3 points out that the opening theme of the concerto, on which not just the first movement but much else in the piece is based, very much resembles Russian orthodox chant. Rachmaninoff's next composition after the concerto was the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, and the commentator shows "many interesting connections" between the two works when heard side by side - for example the section of the Liturgy beginning "Come, let us worship Christ." It's not that the concerto is supposed to have a religious subtext, but that chant was an important part of his musical language. And interestingly, the musical examples from the concerto are played in tempos just as urgent as in Rachmaninoff's recording. To me these tempos suggest that he may have felt, and meant, his music in a somewhat different way than other pianists do who necessarily come to it from the outside.

So even if you prefer to hear the music in a different interpretation that makes a different expressive effect on you, I suggested listening to the composer's as an alternative, one that might even change how you think of the piece.

The "Discovering Music" program might do the same. If you'd like to listen to it, here's the link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/discovering ... mrach3.ram

"Discovering Music" revisited Rach 3 this week, and that program remains available through Saturday at this page:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00hgdk5

A different commentator and different performers, but the same point is made about the first movement's main theme relating to Russian orthodox chant. This time the example from chant, not taken from any other work by Rachmaninoff, has exactly the same melodic outline, if not the same rhythm, as the concerto's opening.

[smitty1931]

I am surprised that no one on this subject has mentioned the recording by Pletnev/Rostropovitch. I own 15 recordings of this masterpiece and have heard most of the others starting in 1949. The first LP I bought was the Rach 3. Personally I rank the Pletnev first, both in performance and recording. The Prokofiev 3rd is also first class. This is a CD all Rachmaninoff fans should hear. DG 289471576-2

[Chalkperson]

I am surprised that no one on this subject has mentioned the recording by Pletnev/Rostropovitch. I own 15 recordings of this masterpiece and have heard most of the others starting in 1949. The first LP I bought was the Rach 3. Personally I rank the Pletnev first, both in performance and recording. The Prokofiev 3rd is also first class. This is a CD all Rachmaninoff fans should hear. DG 289471576-2

That's right, coupled with the Prokofiev Third...I completely spaced on that recording...totally excellent...

[maestrob]

I am surprised that no one on this subject has mentioned the recording by Pletnev/Rostropovitch. I own 15 recordings of this masterpiece and have heard most of the others starting in 1949. The first LP I bought was the Rach 3. Personally I rank the Pletnev first, both in performance and recording. The Prokofiev 3rd is also first class. This is a CD all Rachmaninoff fans should hear. DG 289471576-2

It's disfigured by the "standard" cut in the last movement of the Rachmaninov, is one reason...

[Steinway]

I was fortunate to attend a concert at the Academy of Music in 1940 with Rachmaninoff and Ormandy. It was the first time I ever heard the work and was completely mesmerized by the music and the soloist.

I also was priviledged to hear Rachmaninoff in a solo recital at the Academy that year. He was quite a remarkable figure to see.

One of my greatest musical memories.

[karlhenning]

I am surprised that no one on this subject has mentioned the recording by Pletnev/Rostropovitch. I own 15 recordings of this masterpiece and have heard most of the others starting in 1949. The first LP I bought was the Rach 3. Personally I rank the Pletnev first, both in performance and recording. The Prokofiev 3rd is also first class. This is a CD all Rachmaninoff fans should hear. DG 289471576-2

It's disfigured by the "standard" cut in the last movement of the Rachmaninov, is one reason...

Bring that hammer down, maestrob! ; )

Cheers,
~Karl

[barney]

What about the recent Stephen Hough with Dallas and Litton? That's high on my list (I have 14 accounts).

[THEHORN]

Yes, Lang Lang has often been made fun of for his stage mannerisms, but his interpretations have often been faulted too.
The poet and critic Benjamin Ivry , who also covers classical music recently praised the other young Chinese pianist Yundi Li to the detriment of Lang Lang, dismissing him as an"unidiomatic" pianist. This is the height of critical arrogance and presumption. It's one thing to say that he considers so and so's performance of this or that"unidiomatic", but to dismiss some one's entire musicianship as unidiomatic is an outrage. And Lang Lang is still young and developing.
And the terms idiomatic and unidiomatic are loaded ; if you don't like the way some one interprets a work you call it unidiomatic, if you like it, it's idiomatic. But this is to imply that there are only certain ways to do a work that are correct.
For example, Karajan's performances of Italian opera weren't "idiomatic", but they were far more interesting that those of many run of the mill Italian routiniers.

[Chalkperson]

I like Yundi Li too...his Prokofiev and Liszt discs are very good, and his Chopin's not bad either...