Nostalgia corner: Camden Classics.

[Mark Harwood]

Anyone remember Camden Classics LPs?
Towards the end of my school days, in the 1970s, I worked part-time in a shop. We were paid on a Friday evening & I'd go straight to the stand of Classical records, which were very cheap, 79p if memory serves. The recordings were probably old ones, & the pressings cannot have been first-class. The covers had a detail from an old painting on the front & a few helpful words on the back. I think I liked the covers as much as the music, but this label gave me a chance to hear music by Mendelssohn, Tchaikovsky, Dukas, Sibelius, Debussy (my favourite back then), Gounod, Ravel, Wagner, and so on.
Camden Classics, anyone?

[Heck148]

Anyone remember Camden Classics LPs??

Camden records featured many top orchestras performing/recording under pseudonyms -

Carlyle Symphony OrchestraCzech Philharmonic, Vaclav Talich - The main issue from this source was Dvorak's "Slavonic Dances."

Centennial Symphony Orchestra
Boston Symphony Orchestra, Serge Koussevitzky - One of the most heavily represented orchestras on Camden, and features many of the classic Koussevitzky versions going back to the 1920's.

Century Symphony Orchestra
Chicago Symphony Orchestra, with Frederick Stock, Desire Defauw, or Artur Rodzinski - Features a handful of works from the end of Stock's tenure, plus a few of the recordings made in the immediate postwar period.

Claridge Symphony Orchestra Danish Symphony Orchestra, with Fritz Busch - After World War Two, Fritz Busch made a handful of recordings in Denmark via Electrola. The only known issue so far was of the Brahms Symphony #2 in D. There is some controversy over this identification.

Cromwell Symphony Orchestra Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra, Eugene Goossens - With the exception of the Walton violin concerto with Heifetz, and the "Pines of Rome" (originally issued on 45 on WDM 1309, and then on Bluebird), Camden issued all the of Goossens' Cincinnati recordings.

Danube Symphony Orchestra
Vienna Philharmonic, Bruno Walter - Features a small number of recordings - mostly Mozart - made by Walter after he fled Nazi Germany.

Dominion Symphony Orchestra Toronto Symphony Orchestra, Sir Ernest MacMillan - Features MacMillan's recording of "the Planets".

Festival Concert Orchestra
Boston Pops, Arthur Fiedler - A large number of Fiedler recordings from the 1930's and 1940's are represented.

Globe Symphony Orchestra
National Symphony, Hans Kindler - Most of the relatively small number of Kindler recordings were re-issued.

Jewel Symphony Orchestra London Symphony Orchestra, Bruno Walter, or Eugene Goossens - Versions of Haydn and Schubert under Walter's baton were issued, as was some of Goossens' pre-WW2 work.

Marlborough Symphony Orchestra
Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra, Eugene Ormandy - As far as I have been able to determine, only two LP's of Ormandy's sizable Minneapolis legacy was issued.

Schuyler Symphony Orchestra
St Louis Symphony Orchestra, Vladimir Golschmann, or Leonard Bernstein - A relatively small number of issues, but including Bernstein conducting his own works.

Seine Symphony Orchestra
Paris Conservatoire - Small number of recordings from the late '30's, Walter again.

Star Symphony Orchestra
Hollywod Bowl Symphony Orchestra, Leopold Stokowski - Some recordings from the '40's.

Stratford Symphony Orchestra
London Philharmonic, Serge Koussevitzky, Constant Lambert, Efrem Kurtz, Eugene Goossens, or Antal Dorati - A very diverse set of recordings covering the 1930's and 1940's for this workhorse ensemble.

Sussex Symphony Orchestra
Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra, Fabian Sevitzky - Most of Sevitzky's small RCA discography was re-issued.

Sutton Symphony Orchestra New York City Symphony Orchestra, Leopold Stokowski - A handful of Stokowski releases from the 1940's.

Thames Symphony Orchestra BBC Symphony Orchestra, Bruno Walter or Adrian Boult - A variety of issues, principally from the 1930's.

Warwick Symphony Orchestra
Philadelphia Orchestra, Leopold Stokowski or Eugene Ormandy - Probably the largest set of re-issues, the Philadelphia Orchestra in its prime.

World Wide Symphony Orchestra
San Francisco Symphony Orchestra , Pierre Monteux - A good representation of the San Francisco Symphony, which was generally well covered either by Camden, LM, or WDB during this time.
more @
http://www.vinylogy.com/camden.htm

[Mark Harwood]

Nice one, Heck 148.
I didn't realise the recordings were quite so old. I saw some half-forgotten ones there, although the Debussy may have been on another label. My Google search didn't turn up the site that you cite, so thanks for that too.
First time I ever felt nostalgic for vinyl.

[CharmNewton]

In the U.S., Camden was one of the early (1950s) budget lines that issued earlier recordings that had been available on 78 RPM discs with pseudonymous orchestras.

In the U.K. RCA issued a Camden Classics series similar to the American Victrola line with early stereo recordings including those of Reiner, Munch and others. I have a couple of these and the pressings weren't so hot--the Reiner issue of Rossini Overtures I had to return a couple of times. They had glossy black covers with classic art works. I imagine some of these are sought after today.

John

[Lance]

Ah, RCA CAMDEN! I remember them well and have many of these LPs, mostly on USA pressings, and quite a few in the British line-up. Indeed, many are highly collectible even today. American Columbia's answer to the RCA Camdens were the budget-priced Entré label and the Harmony label. When I began collecting around 1959, many of these could be found at used record shops and Salvation Army outlets for as little as 25¢. Unless they came from private collections, surfaces often left something to be desired and surfaces on these budget recordings were not all that great to start with. I think Camdens sold new for $1.98; Entré was a dollor or two more while Harmony also sold for $1.98 (retail prices). I recall a wonderful conversation with Howard H. Scott of Columbia Records who told me how they made the 78-rpm transfers to LP on those early issues. Even for them, it was not an easy task. Side-joins, pitch changes and surface noise from 78s posed even technical problems back then. Today of course, in the digital era, many of these old recordings can be brought back to incredible musical beauty. Still, handling and playing LPs still offers enormous joy for collectors.

[CharmNewton]

Ah, RCA CAMDEN! I remember them well and have many of these LPs, mostly on USA pressings, and quite a few in the British line-up. Indeed, many are highly collectible even today. American Columbia's answer to the RCA Camdens were the budget-priced Entré label and the Harmony label. When I began collecting around 1959, many of these could be found at used record shops and Salvation Army outlets for as little as 25¢. Unless they came from private collections, surfaces often left something to be desired and surfaces on these budget recordings were not all that great to start with. I think Camdens sold new for $1.98; Entré was a dollor or two more while Harmony also sold for $1.98 (retail prices). I recall a wonderful conversation with Howard H. Scott of Columbia Records who told me how they made the 78-rpm transfers to LP on those early issues. Even for them, it was not an easy task. Side-joins, pitch changes and surface noise from 78s posed even technical problems back then. Today of course, in the digital era, many of these old recordings can be brought back to incredible musical beauty. Still, handling and playing LPs still offers enormous joy for collectors.

The American RCA Camden label remained until the end of the LP era, although it featured primarily popular music after the introduction of the Victrola line for classical material in 1963.

The early transfers of 78 RPM discs were made from vinyl pressings whenever possible. The labels still had 78 RPM pressing equipment (78s were still issued as popular music singles into the late 1950s). But many stampers were destroyed to recover their intrinsic value as scrap metal for the war effort in WWII. American Columbia began using long-playing discs during recording sessions in 1938 or so. This practice was introduced after the label was purchased by CBS who had long used long-playing to record radio transcriptions (one of the reasons American Columbia 78s from the 1940s sound so awful, and didn't get picked up by overseas affiliates was due to their being dubbings from the long-playing masters). The long-playing masters, while longer than 78 RPM discs still had to be painstakingly joined for the first LPs, at least until the widespread adoption of tape.

John

[IN278S]

Records from the UK Camden Classics series would sometimes be imported into the USA, when those titles went unreissued here. One example in my own collection is Munch/BSO doing the Brandenburgs, which I don't think was available here once the original LP set was deleted. (There's a Japanese CD, so maybe Arkiv has picked this one up as well.)

Now as for the USA Camden classical issues, which ones were not reissues? I have two LPs of Lorin Hollander (a teenager in those days) and there are a few by the Oslo Philharmonic. These are from the early stereo era, when RCA must have felt the need for some newly-recorded items in the budget line. Were there any other such classical artists? Among the mono recordings, too, were some first releases, such as the Moriz Rosenthal records for which RCA got his widow's approval.

[Adair]

I recall a great Camden lp with early Bernstein compositions on it.

[John F]

The Victor Talking Machine Company, acquired by RCA in 1929, had its headquarters and main recording studios in Camden, New Jersey - hence "Camden" as one of its brand names. American Camden was a budget label, as has been said, reissuing 78 rpm recordings under pseudonyms. RCA Victor had another budget label for classical releases, Bluebird, mostly HMV recordings on their budget "plum" label ("plum" was the main color).

Heck148's list of the Camden pseudonyms covers the ground, I believe. Many of the pseudonyms had some relevance to the true names. The Danube Symphony, Seine Symphony, Thames Symphony, and Star Symphony allusions are obvious. "Dominion" refers to the dominion of Canada; "Warwick," to a famous hotel in Philadelphia; "Marlborough," to a Minneapolis hotel. Philadelphia also has a Carlyle Hotel, and while this has nothing to do with Prague, Philly is just across the river from Camden. Schuyler County in Missouri is nowhere near St. Louis, but there's a Schuyler Street in Philadelphia... Obviously I'm just guessing now, but why not?

[stenka razin]

Heck, what a splendid job of sorting out those strange orchestra names and giving us their true identities. A Camden title was my first LP purchase back in the 1950's.

Anyone remember one of their main budget LP rivals, RCA Bluebird?

[John F]

Anyone remember one of their main budget LP rivals, RCA Bluebird?

RCA Victor had another budget label for classical releases, Bluebird, mostly HMV recordings issued on their budget "plum" label ("plum" was the main color).

[Lance]

Sure do remember the Bluebirds. I have a nice array of those, too. Some of them were very hard to find. Among my favs was Beethoven's Third Piano Concerto w/Moiseiwitsch at the piano. It has since been made available on CD, at least on two occasions.

Heck, what a splendid job of sorting out those strange orchestra names and giving us their true identities. A Camden title was my first LP purchase back in the 1950's.

Anyone remember one of their main budget LP rivals, RCA Bluebird?

[dirkronk]

As an adjunct to Heck's very fine list, I offer this archived list that I've referred to over the years. It includes a couple of pseudonyms not on Heck's lineup, but without the helpful specifics and commentary relating to repertoire.

ORCHESTRA PSEUDONYMS
USED ON CAMDEN RECORDINGS

Carlyle : Czech Philharmonic

Marlborough: Minneapolis SO

Centennial: Boston SO

Harln Ramsey Orch: Henri Rene's Orch.

Century: Chicago SO

Regent: Victor SO, which was mainly the Philadelphia Orch.

Claridge:Danish State Radio Orch

Schuyler: St. Louis SO

Harold Coates Orch: Al Goodman's Orch.

Seine: Paris Conservatory Orch

Cromwell: Cincinnati SO

Star: Hollywood Bowl SO / Los Angeles Phil.

Danube: Vienna Philharmonic

Stratford: London Philharmonic

Dominion: Toronto SO

Sussex: Indianapolis SO, Fabian Sevitsky conducting.

Festival Concert Orch.: Boston Pops. Fiedler conducting.

Sutton New York City SO: Stokowski conducting.

Globe: National SO of Washington, DC

Thames: B.B.C. SO

Golden: RCA Victor SO, Bernstein conducting. Probably a put-together orchestra.

Warwick: Philadelphia Orch. Stokowski or Ormandy conducting.

Jewel: London SO

World Wide SO: San Francisco SO. Monteux conducting


I hope this is an accurate listing. It was given to me by a fellow vinyl junkie many years ago.

Cheers,

Dirk

[Wallingford]

After a certain point RCA dropped the pseudonyms & began identifying the ensembles by their true identities (also, they began using a superior grade of vinyl--the eariliest ones had a pimply surface with much hissiness).

MacMillan & the Toronto Symphony had their Tchaikovsky Fifth reissued under their real names.

[Lance]

The grand age of LPS! There's still quite a few of us around who appreciate these great treasures.

[Wallingford]

The duo-piano team of Luboschutz & Nemenoff had their RCA 78s reissued on Camden using their real names.

[John F]

Regent: Victor SO, which was mainly the Philadelphia Orch.

Are you sure? The Philadelphians were certainly convenient for recording sessions in Camden, but Victor also had a very busy New York recording studio and some of the RCA Victor SO recordings were made there, reportedly using musicians from the Metropolitan Opera Orchestra, the NBC Symphony, the New York Philharmonic, or ad hoc combinations of them, plus freelancers. Just as later with the Columbia Symphony Orchestra, some were made in New York, some by the anonymized Cleveland Orchestra (Mozart concertos with Serkin and Szell), some in Los Angeles. You need inside information such as the recording venue even to begin to sort this out.

[dirkronk]

Regent: Victor SO, which was mainly the Philadelphia Orch.

Are you sure?

Nope. As I mentioned, the list was given to me years back by an online friend, and I assume it was his commentary that was attached. I'd trust your own knowledge over what may be an offhand comment by a less-informed vinyl fan. Me, I always figured the "Victor SO" could be its own catch-all monicker for whatever group they were able to cobble together for a given project...a sort of pseudonym (created for their full priced records) then preempted by the Camden (budget record) pseudonym! But I could be wrong, too.


Dirk

[John F]

I've heard enough specifics to believe that the RCA Victor Symphony Orchestra, and the group that Stokowski conducted as "his" symphony orchestra, were not usually contracted groups of freelancers but existing orchestras. Opera recordings such as "Carmen" conducted by Reiner and "Il Trovatore" with Milanov and Bjoerling used the Met orchestra, uncredited presumably to save money, which needed little rehearsal for such standard repertory and indeed had been playing "Carmen" under Reiner at the time. Leopold Stokowski conducted the NBC Symphony fairly often when Toscanini wasn't there; RCA was of course NBC's parent organization, and used "its" orchestra for some of Stokey's recordings for them. And so on. I'd love to have a look at RCA's archives for this and other reasons, especially since Chasins's bio of Stokowski is scanty with info about his recordings, but no such luck.

[Heck148]

I've heard enough specifics to believe that the RCA Victor Symphony Orchestra, and the group that Stokowski conducted as "his" symphony orchestra, were not usually contracted groups of freelancers but existing orchestras.

Combinations of both - each conductor had his favorite musicians that he wanted called first...the various groups - RCA Victor SO, Stokowski RCA SO, "his" orchestra, Reiner's orchestra for Haydn symphonies[his last recordings], were definitely contracted freelance orchestras, even tho they contained members of major NY orchestras - NYPO, MetOpera, NBCSO.
Reiner's 1950 Recordings were done by RCAVictor Orch, which on those occasions was primarily the MetOpera Orchestra, with possibly a few additions...
someplace I've got a list of featured musicians on the various conductors recordings. I'll see if I can find it.

[AntonioA]

I have plenty of Camden lp:s, especially with Koussevitsky, Monteux, and Stokowski. Some lp:s have the real names of the performers, some have not. Great hidden treasures from the 78 rpm era.

[Wallingford]

.....but let's just watch out for those First Piano Quartet reissues.