Beethoven Symphonies - Cluytens

[Prometheus]

I saw quite a few reviews for this set a bit ago on the listening thread. Now that some time has passed do the members of cmg who have purchased it still enjoy it? Does it rank highly among available Beethoven cycles? I am considering obtaining it.

Thanks for your help!

[val]

A good box, with three great moments: the 2nd Symphony, one of the best after Monteux, the 6th and above all a very remarkable 8th, with a perfect balance and dynamic (to me, only Karajan in his version with the same BPO in 1962 did better).

[Seán]

Fergus recommended the Cluytens to me so I got a copy of the set and it is very good, it's well worth getting.

[Holden Fourth]

This was my seminal LvB cycle and it was on LP. When the CD era started I looked for this set and it took a while to appear. While I was waiting I was introduced to cycles and individual performances by other conductors yet I still bought the Cluytens when it came out.

To me the strength of this set is its consistency and Cluyten's strong vision of how Beethoven should be conducted. The fact that it's the BPO itself tends to back this up. They were obviously happy to have him as the maestro for these performances, amazing considering that Furtwangler, Fricsay, Karajan had also worked with them on the same programme at a similar time.

To me the best symphony on this set is the Pastoral. Only Bruno Walter with the Columbia SO matches it. There are also sterling performances of the 2nd, 4th and the 8th (as mentioned above).

The 5th is the weakest of the set, it doesn't have the required drive. The 3rd is well played but there are a number of better versions out there and I'd say the same for the 1st.

The 9th may appear somewhat middle of the road in its approach but I was enthralled by it nonetheless. Gre Brouwenstijn and Nicolai Gedda are formidable soloists and the BPO chorus performs well.

If I was going to recommend a complete set of the symphonies to a beginner this would probably be it. Walter would be my second choice but his 9th just doesn't cut the mustard. Monteux is also a top recommendation - once again, the 9th excepted.

So go for it. The set is very cheap and it's also very good Beethoven from a master conductor.

[stenka razin]

Cluytens Beethoven cycle is a very good one and at the low asking price it is a steal. You will be able to include this inexpensive set along side the top choices you may already have without stretching your budget. Recommended.

[gfweis]

Just to second some remarks already made, especially by val and Holden Fourth, I think the set is absolutely worth getting. The orchestra plays superbly (it was very much still the orchestra Furtwangler built, as these were recorded not long after he died), and the conducting has good drive and pace. I go back and forth over whether the Cluytens or the Szell or the Kletzki is the best 2nd I've heard). Surely Cluytens has one of the best 4ths. His 6th is up there with Bohm's (Cluytens has the best storm ever---it's thrilling!).

[Jack Kelso]

Just to second some remarks already made, especially by val and Holden Fourth, I think the set is absolutely worth getting. The orchestra plays superbly (it was very much still the orchestra Furtwangler built, as these were recorded not long after he died), and the conducting has good drive and pace. I go back and forth over whether the Cluytens or the Szell or the Kletzki is the best 2nd I've heard). Surely Cluytens has one of the best 4ths. His 6th is up there with Bohm's (Cluytens has the best storm ever---it's thrilling!).

Gee---and I thought Reiner/Chicago had the best storm. Well, that alone might be a reason for me to get this set, since I've never heard it (only heard OF it...).

Tschüß,
Jack

[ContrapunctusIX]

Another strong recommendation from me. One of the most consistent sets 1 - 9, and the pre-Karajan BPO is in excellent form. Certainly worth listening to.

[Lance]

I've got to say these symphonies conducted by Cluytens were an early staple item for me and still are. I immediately acquired the EMI/Seraphim 5-CD issues [69718 thru 69722 inclusive] when they came out. [The new 5-CD set may have been completely remastered again.] As someone suggested, this was Furtwängler's orchestra before Cluytens, and, in his own right, Cluytens has proven to be no slouch of a conductor. I have my favourites among the symphonies, generally the even-numbered ones with especial praise for No. 6, and also the Ninth with Browenstijn, Gedda and company. The BPO was in top shape at this time. You have this and the DGG 1963 Karajan version and you probably would be very happy with just these two sets in your collection. I believe there will be a revival for Cluytens, much as there was for Carl Schuricht, who is making a huge splash these days among collectors. See my recent addition on Cluytens' Beethoven 9 on EMI (price going off the wall!)

[gfweis]

Lance raises an interesting question: does the 2006 EMI Classics box "Les 9 Symphonies" (I think is the latest iteration of these recordings) consist of re-mastered cds relative to the circa 1997 Seraphim cds (which are the ones I, like Lance, have). Anyone know?

[ContrapunctusIX]

Lance raises an interesting question: does the 2006 EMI Classics box "Les 9 Symphonies" (I think is the latest iteration of these recordings) consist of re-mastered cds relative to the circa 1997 Seraphim cds (which are the ones I, like Lance, have). Anyone know?

I have the newer set you mentioned, and there is no indication anywhere in the liner notes about it being remastered. It certainly does not sound as if it has been remastered.

[Chalkperson]

Lance raises an interesting question: does the 2006 EMI Classics box "Les 9 Symphonies" (I think is the latest iteration of these recordings) consist of re-mastered cds relative to the circa 1997 Seraphim cds (which are the ones I, like Lance, have). Anyone know?

I have the newer set you mentioned, and there is no indication anywhere in the liner notes about it being remastered. It certainly does not sound as if it has been remastered.

Given EMI's track record for deceptive practices regarding "new" re-mastering, I would suggest that it's the 1996 re-mastering you are listening to...1996 was a big year for that over at EMI...

[gfweis]

Lance raises an interesting question: does the 2006 EMI Classics box "Les 9 Symphonies" (I think is the latest iteration of these recordings) consist of re-mastered cds relative to the circa 1997 Seraphim cds (which are the ones I, like Lance, have). Anyone know?

I have the newer set you mentioned, and there is no indication anywhere in the liner notes about it being remastered. It certainly does not sound as if it has been remastered.

One would think that if these were re-mastered recordings the EMI box would say so. Very useful information...thanks.

[Donaldopato]

I can add nothing more but to say I got the set based on the discussion here and have enjoyed it immensely. Cluytens' 6th is magnificent and all are consistently excellent.

Worth acquiring for sure.

[Fergus]

These are big band performances and Cluytens brings great power, drive and energy to the works. They are consistent, bright and generally cheerful performances which I would easily recommend; for me nos. 2, 6 and 7 really stand out in a high quality cycle although I agree with the general trust on the 9th. Buy with confidence

[CharmNewton]

I have this cycle in the French EMI 50 CD Beethoven collection. There is no indication in the booklet or on the discs as to the date of the digital mastering, but the disc is inscribed with a URL of www.mediamotion.com next to it's matrix number. They are probably responsible for the mastering.

Another number on the inner portion 020105, could be a date of the mastering.

John

[Prometheus]

Thank you all for your helpful replies! This does indeed sound like an excellent set and I plan to order it soon!

[CharmNewton]

...I believe there will be a revival for Cluytens, much as there was for Carl Schuricht, who is making a huge splash these days among collectors.

If I recall correctly, Toshiba issued 40 LPs (in two boxes) devoted to Cluytens c. 1979 or so, so there is a lot of material. I'd like to see an EMI collection similar to those honoring Cziffra, Ciccolini, Meyer and Nat.

John

[Lance]

The problem with the Japanese issues is just keeping up with them and knowing where to look. Regardless of the label, the Japenese do incredibly wonderful remastering and packaging, but the recordings are unusually short-lived in the catalogue. I would have loved to have had the entire Edwin Fischer Edition and the Gioconda de Vito Edition as issued by EMI-Toshiba. [I have the de Vito on EMI-Toshiba LPs, which pressings are extraordinary.] I haven't even seen either of these editions on the used market. It is almost as though EMI-Toshiba are catering strictly to the Japanese market, which I understand, is huge in itself. Oddly, I never even knew about the 40 Japanese LP issues of Cluytens.

...I believe there will be a revival for Cluytens, much as there was for Carl Schuricht, who is making a huge splash these days among collectors.

If I recall correctly, Toshiba issued 40 LPs (in two boxes) devoted to Cluytens c. 1979 or so, so there is a lot of material. I'd like to see an EMI collection similar to those honoring Cziffra, Ciccolini, Meyer and Nat.

John

[Chalkperson]

The problem with the Japanese issues is just keeping up with them and knowing where to look. Regardless of the label, the Japenese do incredibly wonderful remastering and packaging, but the recordings are unusually short-lived in the catalogue. I would have loved to have had the entire Edwin Fischer Edition and the Gioconda de Vito Edition as issued by EMI-Toshiba.

I have the Gioconda de Vito Box, and, both Adolf Busch Boxes...wanna trade...