Munch and Brahms - Opinions sought

[arthound]

In general I love Munch's work with the BSO and this new 'Living Stereo' [re]release has caught my attention. I don't have any of Munch's studio Brahms recordings and am interested to hear the opinions of those who do.

Cheers,
Justin

[John F]

I heard the 4th in concert at about the time this recording was made, and my 19-year-old ears found the playing disappointingly mediocre and the interpretation nothing special. At the time I was under the spell of Klemperer and the Philharmonia, which may explain something, and no doubt RCA Victor spliced out the clams and generally tidied things up - as the orchestra itself may have done when playing for the microphones and the rest of the world. So I'll leave it there.

[val]

I only heard the 4th and I am not very enthusiasmed. I think other conductors did much better, from Furtwängler (BPO) and Bruno Walter (Columbia) to Karajan (BPO, 1978) and Carlos Kleiber (VPO).

I was never a big fan of Munch, even in French Music, and always preferred, among the French conductors of his time, Monteux, Paray, Cluytens or Martinon.

[THEHORN]

I have his recording of the Brahms 1st with the Orchestre De Paris,which is one of his last recordings,when that orchestra was newly formed. It's part of a 3 CD EMI set of the Munch recordings with the Orch.de Paris,and includes Munch's last recording of the Symphonie Fantastique,several Ravel recordings and the Honegger 2nd symphony.
The Brahms performance is not bad,but the markedly French sound of the woodwind and brass sound rather odd in Brahms,including the characteristic Gallic horn sound,which has been compared to "a cross between a nanny goat and a saxophone".

[Heck148]

I've never thoiught too much of Munch's efforts in the Austro-German orchestral repertoire.

he often seems to be just rushing thru it, like it's a duty of the music director to address this literature, but it wasn't really in his heart...

there are many, many better options for Brahms 2 and 4 esp.

[maestrob]

there are many, many better options for Brahms 2 and 4 esp.

Agreed.....

If you don't have them, go for Solti/Chicago or Bernstein/NY, just for examples.

[Wallingford]

GO FOR IT!!

Munch's Brahms performances have a lucid, easy-to-follow quality that could definitely teach the Germanic types a thing or two.

Both the Second and Fourth performances are excellent ones.

[Heck148]

there are many, many better options for Brahms 2 and 4 esp.

Agreed.....

If you don't have them, go for Solti/Chicago or Bernstein/NY, just for examples.

for #4 Solti is good - but Toscanin/NBC and Reiner /RoyPO take the prize - really awesome performances.

#2 has lots of good choices - Monteux/LSO, Reiner/NYPO, Bernstein/NYPO, Toscanini/NBC to name a few outstanding ones.

[CharmNewton]

I listened to the 4th on an RCA Silver Seal issue (coupled with Munch's exciting recording of Dvorak's 8th) and find this a very good performance as a whole. The first two movements are unrushed and lyric. Munch and the orchestra are more intense in the last two movements with crisp tympani. Unfortunately, the sound coarsens a little in those last two movements. The brass sound is different from other great American orchestras.

Others have mentioned recordings they prefer to this one, and if I had to pick only one it would be Giulini's with the Chicago Symphony, a very intense performance. It is a miracle we have it at all. Sessions to record Stravinsky and Berlioz went so well that they had enough time left over to squeeze in the Brahms.

I saw that Munch's Beethoven 9th is being re-issued in the U.K. That is a thrilling performance. BMG in Japan has re-issued this performance on a Blu-Spec CD as well.

John

[Lance]

Justin, I haven't seen this listed as a new release yet. I have the original LP recordings of Nos. 2 and 4. I was really youngish when I acquired those, but I guess I was in love with the BSO's sound and have always been an admirer of Charles Munch while he was in Boston. While Munch may not have brought the same kind of musicality and exuberance that Monteux brought to Boston—nor that of Koussevitzky—the BSO itself seemed to be in superb condition and sound recordings at that time, particularly "Living Stereo" were impressive. Can you send me the CD release number or put me on to a site that has it at the moment? I checked around a few places and nobody's showing it yet.

In general I love Munch's work with the BSO and this new 'Living Stereo' [re]release has caught my attention. I don't have any of Munch's studio Brahms recordings and am interested to hear the opinions of those who do.

Cheers,
Justin

[arthound]

It looks like it is being released next month Lance. The cheapest price I can find is on Amazon UK - 7.99 pounds including tax.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brahms-Symphoni ... 307&sr=8-1

I have quite a number of the recordings by other conductors listed above - but I do like the way Munch get things done. This isn't to say that I think his recordings are 'the best' - but rather that they have a special quality that appeals to me.

[arthound]

there are many, many better options for Brahms 2 and 4 esp.

Agreed.....

If you don't have them, go for Solti/Chicago or Bernstein/NY, just for examples.

for #4 Solti is good - but Toscanin/NBC and Reiner /RoyPO take the prize - really awesome performances.

#2 has lots of good choices - Monteux/LSO, Reiner/NYPO, Bernstein/NYPO, Toscanini/NBC to name a few outstanding ones.

I wanted to ask you Heck what you think of Toscanini's set on Testament:

[Heck148]

I wanted to ask you Heck what you think of Toscanini's set on Testament:

good performances. I do prefer his NBC versions tho - NBC got that special at the edge energy and excitement with AT...also with NBC you can always hear the wonderful inner lines, counter melodies that are so crucial to great Brahms performances...
so often, all we hear is the high range/treble voices, and the bass - the middle lines are mushy, or are simply lost.

[maestrob]

I wanted to ask you Heck what you think of Toscanini's set on Testament:

good performances. I do prefer his NBC versions tho - NBC got that special at the edge energy and excitement with AT...also with NBC you can always hear the wonderful inner lines, counter melodies that are so crucial to great Brahms performances...
so often, all we hear is the high range/treble voices, and the bass - the middle lines are mushy, or are simply lost.

Now, see, that's interesting, because I prefer the sound on Testament (except for the firecrackers in IV)! I find the sound warmer and less clinical than the NBC set. Yes, I know Toscanini really liked the sound of studio 8-H, so truthfully, I would get those first, especially since I grew up with I on 78's, but the Testament set is an essential companion, and both should be in your collection.

Toscanini's recordings with orchestras other than NBC show the true genius of his ear: try his 1930's discs with the BBC (including a white-hot Verdi Requiem in 1938 on Testament) and the collection of four discs on RCA with Philadelphia in the 1940's: all of which are outstanding!

[stenka razin]

This is very strange, indeed. I collected every single one of the USA RCA Living Stereo releases in the 1990's. The Munch was not part of that series of releases.
Is this the only 'new' RCA Living Stereo CD being released in Europe? Are there more 'new' ones? Please let us all know, m8.


Regards,
Mel

[CharmNewton]

This is very strange, indeed. I collected every single one of the USA RCA Living Stereo releases in the 1990's. The Munch was not part of that series of releases.
Is this the only 'new' RCA Living Stereo CD being released in Europe? Are there more 'new' ones? Please let us all know, m8.


Regards,
Mel

This issue is identical to one issued in 2006 in Japan as part of their Munch series. Those issues did not bear the Living Stereo banner. Nor did the recent Blu-Spec issue of the same coupling.

The Munch Beethoven 9th is also being re-issued. These were announced in an e-mail newsletter from MDT.

Given the recent flurry of re-issues by Sony/BMG in Europe, perhaps the Living Stereo series is being revived. Since the SACD series was done in America, that probably wouldn't be part of a revival if one is occuring.

John

[stenka razin]

This is very strange, indeed. I collected every single one of the USA RCA Living Stereo releases in the 1990's. The Munch was not part of that series of releases.
Is this the only 'new' RCA Living Stereo CD being released in Europe? Are there more 'new' ones? Please let us all know, m8.


Regards,
Mel

This issue is identical to one issued in 2006 in Japan as part of their Munch series. Those issues did not bear the Living Stereo banner. Nor did the recent Blu-Spec issue of the same coupling.

The Munch Beethoven 9th is also being re-issued. These were announced in an e-mail newsletter from MDT.

Given the recent flurry of re-issues by Sony/BMG in Europe, perhaps the Living Stereo series is being revived. Since the SACD series was done in America, that probably wouldn't be part of a revival if one is occuring.

John

John, I did not know this information. I cannot thank you enough for this encouraging news. There are so many wonderful RCA Living Stereo releases that need to see the light of day for the first time on CD and hopefully the Brahms and the Beethoven will herald a change in Sony/RCA future release plans.

Regards,
Mel

[CharmNewton]

John, I did not know this information. I cannot thank you enough for this encouraging news. There are so many wonderful RCA Living Stereo releases that need to see the light of day for the first time on CD and hopefully the Brahms and the Beethoven will herald a change in Sony/RCA future release plans.

Regards,
Mel

I think it's great that the major labels are showing pride in their great recordings. They are an important part of our cultural heritage. They represent the accomplishments of many people over the decades. And they are being offered at prices that make them affordable to anyone who has the desire to hear them.

John

[stenka razin]

John, I did not know this information. I cannot thank you enough for this encouraging news. There are so many wonderful RCA Living Stereo releases that need to see the light of day for the first time on CD and hopefully the Brahms and the Beethoven will herald a change in Sony/RCA future release plans.

Regards,
Mel

I think it's great that the major labels are showing pride in their great recordings. They are an important part of our cultural heritage. They represent the accomplishments of many people over the decades. And they are being offered at prices that make them affordable to anyone who has the desire to hear them.

John

John, you are so right. RCA Living Stereo was my gateway to great recordings way back when. I am so happy that there will be more releases in their CD reincarnation.

[bombasticDarren]

John, you are so right. RCA Living Stereo was my gateway to great recordings way back when. I am so happy that there will be more releases in their CD reincarnation.

I agree. I love the Living Stereo range and and I am pleased to see such an interesting recording reissued. I will be purchasing the Brahms/Munch disc next week when it becomes available on Amazon

[Wallingford]

He did a pretty darn good First as well.

[stenka razin]

I wanted to ask you Heck what you think of Toscanini's set on Testament:

good performances. I do prefer his NBC versions tho - NBC got that special at the edge energy and excitement with AT...also with NBC you can always hear the wonderful inner lines, counter melodies that are so crucial to great Brahms performances...
so often, all we hear is the high range/treble voices, and the bass - the middle lines are mushy, or are simply lost.

Now, see, that's interesting, because I prefer the sound on Testament (except for the firecrackers in IV)! I find the sound warmer and less clinical than the NBC set. Yes, I know Toscanini really liked the sound of studio 8-H, so truthfully, I would get those first, especially since I grew up with I on 78's, but the Testament set is an essential companion, and both should be in your collection.

Toscanini's recordings with orchestras other than NBC show the true genius of his ear: try his 1930's discs with the BBC (including a white-hot Verdi Requiem in 1938 on Testament) and the collection of four discs on RCA with Philadelphia in the 1940's: all of which are outstanding!

The Testament Toscanini/Brahms set is worth its weight in gold. It is truly a recording for the ages. Highly recommended! ++