Best ever Chopin Barcarolle?

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hangos
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Best ever Chopin Barcarolle?

Post by hangos » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:05 pm

All my fellow Chopin aficionados might want to click on this link ;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swO3uLpM-9o


Ignore the artwork, this is not from her recent DG radio broadcasts release, but from the actual 1965 competition which of course she won.
Apparently Vlado Perlemuter, a judge at the 1965 Warsaw Chopin Competition, said that as soon as he heard that opening chord he knew Argerich would win the competition.
Are there any CMG pianists out there who would agree with Vlado on that or who might care to explain what he meant - what exactly is so special about her rendition of that opening chord? (I like it too, but can't explain why it hits me, as I don't play!)
Martin

josé echenique
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Re: Best ever Chopin Barcarolle?

Post by josé echenique » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:25 pm

Very hard to say, not because Argerich is not exquisite, but because there´s also Lipatti, Cortot, Rubinstein, Zimerman and some others who in their own way, are incomparable.

karlhenning
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Re: Best ever Chopin Barcarolle?

Post by karlhenning » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:33 pm

Right. I think there's hardly any instance of a single performance "owning" a piece. Music is bigger than that.

Cheers,
~Karl
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hangos
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Re: Best ever Chopin Barcarolle?

Post by hangos » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:37 pm

karlhenning wrote:Right. I think there's hardly any instance of a single performance "owning" a piece. Music is bigger than that.

Cheers,
~Karl
I agree, Karl - I was merely securing attention for my thread by the usual blockbuster method! :oops:
Would you agree that it is a pretty exquisite performance, though?
Martin

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Re: Best ever Chopin Barcarolle?

Post by karlhenning » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:40 pm

hangos wrote:I agree, Karl - I was merely securing attention for my thread by the usual blockbuster method! :oops:
Ah! the Barcarolle-a-Go-Go! : )

Cheers,
~Karl
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hangos
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Re: Best ever Chopin Barcarolle?

Post by hangos » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:44 pm

karlhenning wrote:
hangos wrote:I agree, Karl - I was merely securing attention for my thread by the usual blockbuster method! :oops:
Ah! the Barcarolle-a-Go-Go! : )

Cheers,
~Karl
You caught me on the hop there, Karl - but seriously, I would value your opinion of Argerich's performance (which is not the barnstorming approach some might expect from her)
Martin

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Re: Best ever Chopin Barcarolle?

Post by Cyril Ignatius » Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:29 pm

If we can go so far as to suggest anyone is the supreme Chopinis, I had presumed that Ivan Moravec is.
Cyril Ignatius

hangos
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Re: Best ever Chopin Barcarolle?

Post by hangos » Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:39 pm

Cyril Ignatius wrote:If we can go so far as to suggest anyone is the supreme Chopinis, I had presumed that Ivan Moravec is.
I rate his Chopin very highly too ....... what's your verdict on this Barcarolle from 1965 performed by Argerich?
Please click on the link at the top of this thread - I value your opinion!
Martin

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Re: Best ever Chopin Barcarolle?

Post by Cyril Ignatius » Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:11 pm

Argerich checks in about a minute faster on this than the Ivan Moravec version I consulted. She certainly does an excellent job. I can't fault it in any way.
Cyril Ignatius

John F
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Re: Best ever Chopin Barcarolle?

Post by John F » Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:12 pm

Dinu Lipatti.



I like the Argerich 1965 performance better than much of her more recent Chopin - in fact, I like it a lot, period - but the character of the piece, in effect a gondoliers' song, suggests a steadier pulse than hers, without the rubato (to me anyway).

As for the first chord, I've no idea what Perlemuter can have been talking about. Could he have misremembered what piece he responded to in that way?
John Francis

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Re: Best ever Chopin Barcarolle?

Post by karlhenning » Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:28 pm

hangos wrote:You caught me on the hop there, Karl - but seriously, I would value your opinion of Argerich's performance (which is not the barnstorming approach some might expect from her)
Martin
It's very nice, Martin; quite muscular, ma non troppo. I also just listened to Andrei Nikolsky, just for a quick comparison; his is more fluid. I shouldn't call one manner any better than the other.

Cheers,
~Karl
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Re: Best ever Chopin Barcarolle?

Post by Lance » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:09 am

The Barcarolle is a gorgeous piece of music, as is Chopin's other rarity, the Bolero. I did some checking and seem to have around 100 Barcarolles performed by just about every major pianist of the past and many from current days. It is impossible to select just one (or even two) as being among the "best ever." However, that said, I am drawn to Dinu Lipatti's performance and those by Artur Rubinstein, Alfred Cortot, Jorge Bolet, Argerich (1965), de Larrocha, Moiseiwitsch, Moravec, Abbey Simon, and several others. They each have something very distinctive to say. That's the beauty of having so many interpreters of one fine piece.
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Re: Best ever Chopin Barcarolle?

Post by Chalkperson » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:30 am

There is no doubt in my mind...Ivan Moravec...
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val
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Re: Best ever Chopin Barcarolle?

Post by val » Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:16 am

The interpretation of Alfred Cortot is not far from the ideal. The ideal according to the perspective I have of this work.

maestrob
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Re: Best ever Chopin Barcarolle?

Post by maestrob » Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:59 am

Argerich is indeed a superb Chopin performer, as she is in all else. Moravec is extremely nuanced and sensitive, and Lipati holds a special place in my heart, yet the peak performance for me in Murray Perahia, who captures the rolling chords with matchless perfection and warmth of nuance.

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Re: Best ever Chopin Barcarolle?

Post by karlhenning » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:05 pm

Lance wrote:The Barcarolle is a gorgeous piece of music, as is Chopin's other rarity, the Bolero.
As I read that, though, Lance, you seem to say that the Barcarolle is a rarity?

How do we reconcile that with:

Lance wrote:I did some checking and seem to have around 100 Barcarolles performed by just about every major pianist of the past and many from current days.
100 instances seems inordinate for a rarity . . . .

Cheers,
~Karl
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Lance
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Re: Best ever Chopin Barcarolle?

Post by Lance » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:21 pm

Well, a rarity in the sense that we don't hear the Barcarolle nor the Bolero nearly as frequently as the Nocturnes, Ballades, or Scherzi. As many piano recitals as I have attended—literally hundreds—over the years, I think I can count on one hand the number of live performances I've heard of, especially, the Barcarolle. As to how to reconcile, well, I guess you either believe it or not! :) See more below in red.
karlhenning wrote:
Lance wrote:The Barcarolle is a gorgeous piece of music, as is Chopin's other rarity, the Bolero.
As I read that, though, Lance, you seem to say that the Barcarolle is a rarity?

How do we reconcile that with:


Lance responds:

As for a rarity and having 100 pianists play it on records, I guess you would have to be crazy about music (like me) to go after all these versions, some of which are planned and others that just happen to be there. This is not mere "collecting," per se, but actually being interested in myriad performances by mostly celebrated (and some uncelebrated) pianists.
Lance wrote:I did some checking and seem to have around 100 Barcarolles performed by just about every major pianist of the past and many from current days.
100 instances seems inordinate for a rarity . . . .

Cheers,
~Karl
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Cyril Ignatius
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Re: Best ever Chopin Barcarolle?

Post by Cyril Ignatius » Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:12 pm

Chopin's Barcerolle is a rarity in that it represents a level of greatness that few musical pieces can claim.
Cyril Ignatius

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Re: Best ever Chopin Barcarolle?

Post by fmnewyork » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:53 am

The 1939 Moiseiwitsch recording that is included in the Marston Century of Romantic Chopin box is one of the rare times where I feel "best ever" status does apply. Like Lance, I've heard hundreds of Barcarolle performances, but when I heard this one I finally felt for the first time that I had found it - the ideal Barcarolle recording. The Marston box set is not the first release of this Barcarolle recording. It was first issued on an APR CD called "Piano e Forte", but that CD is no longer available. This performance was not issued during Moiseiwitsch's lifetime. It comes from a test pressing that was in the possession of the family.
Farhan

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Re: Best ever Chopin Barcarolle?

Post by Ricordanza » Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:31 am

Lance wrote:Well, a rarity in the sense that we don't hear the Barcarolle nor the Bolero nearly as frequently as the Nocturnes, Ballades, or Scherzi. As many piano recitals as I have attended—literally hundreds—over the years, I think I can count on one hand the number of live performances I've heard of, especially, the Barcarolle.
Pierre-Laurent Aimard is playing the Barcarolle tonight in his Philadelphia piano recital. I hope to have a favorable report.

hangos
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Re: Best ever Chopin Barcarolle?

Post by hangos » Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:23 pm

Ricordanza wrote:
Lance wrote:Well, a rarity in the sense that we don't hear the Barcarolle nor the Bolero nearly as frequently as the Nocturnes, Ballades, or Scherzi. As many piano recitals as I have attended—literally hundreds—over the years, I think I can count on one hand the number of live performances I've heard of, especially, the Barcarolle.
Pierre-Laurent Aimard is playing the Barcarolle tonight in his Philadelphia piano recital. I hope to have a favorable report.
I wish you luck, my friend ....... I hope he is more sympathetic to Chopin than he was to Ravel in his recording of Gaspard de la nuit! (he's great with Ligeti, though!) :wink:
Enjoy the recital!
Martin

Ricordanza
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Re: Best ever Chopin Barcarolle?

Post by Ricordanza » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:27 am

hangos wrote:
Ricordanza wrote:
Lance wrote:Well, a rarity in the sense that we don't hear the Barcarolle nor the Bolero nearly as frequently as the Nocturnes, Ballades, or Scherzi. As many piano recitals as I have attended—literally hundreds—over the years, I think I can count on one hand the number of live performances I've heard of, especially, the Barcarolle.
Pierre-Laurent Aimard is playing the Barcarolle tonight in his Philadelphia piano recital. I hope to have a favorable report.
I wish you luck, my friend ....... I hope he is more sympathetic to Chopin than he was to Ravel in his recording of Gaspard de la nuit! (he's great with Ligeti, though!) :wink:
Enjoy the recital!
Martin
I liked his performance of the Barcarolle and liked even more his performance of Ravel's Miroirs. See my review for more details.

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