Best "First" symphonies

[Heck148]

This topic has been visited before, IIRC - tho quite some time ago...

there are so many great symphonic composers -

whose "First" symphony is best?? this of course could mean - the greatest, or it could mean - your favorite

for me:

Sibelius
Shostakovich
Walton

[gfweis]

Those three--Sibelius, Shostakovich, Walton---are surely good ones. I think I would say: Brahms, Mahler, Prokofiev. But your three would not be far behind (and the Sibelius would challenge the Prokofiev).

[Allen]

Bizet

[Heck148]

Bizet

that's not technically a "first" symphony, is it??

it's symphony in C. did he write any more??

[Allen]

It seems that he did.

http://imslp.org/wiki/Sortable_list_of_ ... rges_Bizet


WD 33
WD 34
WD 37

on the webpage above.

[Heck148]

It seems that he did.

I regard his Sym iC rather like Franck's d minor - rather "one of a kind"...
but whatever -

[jbuck919]

It seems that he did.

http://imslp.org/wiki/Sortable_list_of_ ... rges_Bizet


WD 33
WD 34
WD 37

on the webpage above.

All right then--Berlioz or Franck (a theme emerges).

[Barry]

Brahms
Mahler
Sibelius

In that order (unless the Symphonie Fantastique is considered to be a first symphony, in which case I'd put that behind the Mahler and bump Sibelius down).

[Heck148]

suggestion - Let's do numbered symphonies -

or in cases like Stravinsky and Hindemith - the works aren't numbered, but they each wrote several symphonies which may be logged chronologically.

[CharmNewton]

Mahler
Tchaikovsky
Brahms

The Mahler is a bold and confident work for a composer in his mid 20s. I find the Tchaikovsky very beautiful. He was probably a 20 something too.

I still remember hearing the opening of the Brahms for the first time over the radio (Walter/N.Y. Phil). Riveting.

John

[springrite]

Mahler
Brahms
Brian

[Lance]

To select just one, I would have to say:

PROKOFIEV: Symphony #1 in D Major, Op. 25 (“Classical”)

[Chalkperson]

Mahler, nobody else even comes close...IMHO of course...although some of our other Celtic Members may agree with me...

[Jack Kelso]

Amazing---this thread is just BEGGING for it. So here it is:

Schumann's First, a truly original and highly expressive first. Also, those single ones of Bizet, Franck, Dukas, etc. DO qualify for "firsts", since that's what they really are....regardless of the fact that they stand alone in their composers' outputs.

For me, (in no particular order) my favorites are those of Beethoven, Schumann, Brahms and Mahler, as these reach the heights of intensity, inspiration and craftsmanship.

Others I love are by Bruckner, Tschaikowsky, Prokofiev, Hindemith and Schostakowitsch.

Tschüß,
Jack

[absinthe]

Walton's.

[Jack Kelso]

Walton's.

Thank you----you just reminded me that I forgot ELGAR'S FIRST. It's one of the major late-Romantic masterpieces.

Tschüß,
Jack

[Heck148]

Tchaikovsky

Yes, that's a wonderful one, also, very near top of my list.
perfect for today - "Winter Dreams" - we just got about 12" of snow!! wet, heavy stuff that is clinging to every tree, branch, wire post, etc...

[THEHORN]

Nielsen's 1st is a very fine work,and possibly the first to end in a different key from its beginning. Though technically in G minor(the first movement),the finale ends in C major. The first movement also begins with a C major chord,unusual in works in G minor.
This is the first example of Nielsen's so-called "progressive tonality".
Though Mahler used it in his 4th, 5th,7th and 9th symphonies, Nielsen's use of progressive tonality is even bolder and is a feature in virtually all his major works.
Mahler's Resurrection symphony begins in C minor and ends in E flat major, the relative major or C minor.

[Seán]

To select just one, I would have to say:

PROKOFIEV: Symphony #1 in D Major, Op. 25 (“Classical”)

Gosh, Haydn revisited.

[Seán]

Mahler (one might almost say, "of course")
Berlioz then
Beethoven

[Seán]

Mahler, nobody else even comes close...IMHO of course...although some of our other Celtic Members may agree with me...

This is where I dispense with any notion of my being humble and scream from the rooftops, "RIGHT ON CHALKIE"

[karlhenning]

Rued Langgaard’s first is a blast, possibly outdoes RVW’s A Sea Symphony.

Shostakovich and Nielsen still remain my own favorites, probably.

My vote for Best First Symphony Which Was Not a First Symphony goes easily to the Prokofiev Second. I agree with Lance that the ‘Classical’ is a fine accomplishment, and full worthy its place in the repertory . . . but if we disallow it as an ‘exercise’ in What Would Haydn Do?, and consider the first symphony in Prokofiev’s own full voice . . . the Second is an absolute stunner.

Cheers,
~Karl

[Seán]

Rued Langgaard’s first is a blast, possibly outdoes RVW’s A Sea Symphony.

Shostakovich and Nielsen still remain my own favorites, probably.

My vote for Best First Symphony Which Was Not a First Symphony goes easily to the Prokofiev Second. I agree with Lance that the ‘Classical’ is a fine accomplishment, and full worthy its place in the repertory . . . but if we disallow it as an ‘exercise’ in What Would Haydn Do?, and consider the first symphony in Prokofiev’s own full voice . . . the Second is an absolute stunner.

Cheers,
~Karl

I have no Langgard recordings, I will have to rectify that in 2011. Nielsen eh? Prokofiev's Second though, I've always found it "difficult", it requires more effort than most, I must revisit it too. His First is lovely but the best?

[karlhenning]

I have no Langgard recordings, I will have to rectify that in 2011.

The supremely obligatory Rued Langgaard score, Seán, is unquestionably Sfærernes Musik (The Music of the Spheres).

But I'm an unrepentant Langgaard enthusiast, and I enjoy each of the 17 symphonies in the Da Capo box; they cover quite a range of tone and style, so only one aspect of them is, they don't ever make themselves tiresome ; )

Cheers,
~Karl

[Lance]

Others have mentioned it, but I also believe Beethoven's First Symphony was a major step forward and created a new pathway to creating symphonic writing. Tchaikovsky, too. In many ways, I prefer his 1st, 2nd, and 3rd symphonies more than the last three.

[RebLem]

Brahms, Prokofiev, Mahler, Shostakovich, Sibelius, Brian, Schumann, Schubert, Weill, and, of course, Franck and Chausson.

[Tore]

This topic has been visited before, IIRC - tho quite some time ago...

there are so many great symphonic composers -

whose "First" symphony is best?? this of course could mean - the greatest, or it could mean - your favorite

for me:

Sibelius
Shostakovich
Walton

I am very fond of Ralph Vaughan William's first symphony "A sea symphony". My favourite RVW symphony. This symphony would be great to have on blu-ray.

Tore F Steenslid
www.steenslid.com
Sotra, Norway

[Fergus]

Mahler
Shostakovich
Sibelius

But if Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastic was allowed then that would go to no. 2.

[johnQpublic]

Brahms
Barber
Kalinnikov

[THEHORN]

I've always loved Bruckner's 1st,even if it isn't techincally his first considering the so-called symphony no 0 and the early "study" symphony.
I've never been able to understand its neglect. It's by far the shortest of the 9 numbered Bruckner symphonies,about the same length as the 1st of Brahms,and contains all the seeds of the mature composer.
I prefer the original Linz version to the much later Vienna version, but the latter is certainly interestingly different.
I would recommend the Linz version of the 1st to those who think they don't like Bruckner. Chances are they've never heard it.
There have been notable recordings by such eminent Brucknerians as Jochum, Solti,Karajan,Abbado,Chailly,Haitink, Inbal,Skrowaczewski, Barenboim,
Masur, Wand etc, but you almost never hear it live.Too bad.

[Chalkperson]

Walton's.

Thank you----you just reminded me that I forgot ELGAR'S FIRST. It's one of the major late-Romantic masterpieces.

Tschüß,
Jack

I was actually glad to see you had forgotten Elgar's Monolithic and Laboriously (Monotonous) Epic...

[Prometheus]

Mahler, Berlioz, Bruckner, Beethoven, Brahms, Kalinnikov.

[Chalkperson]

I have no Langgard recordings, I will have to rectify that in 2011.

The supremely obligatory Rued Langgaard score, Seán, is unquestionably Sfærernes Musik (The Music of the Spheres).

But I'm an unrepentant Langgaard enthusiast, and I enjoy each of the 17 symphonies in the Da Capo box; they cover quite a range of tone and style, so only one aspect of them is, they don't ever make themselves tiresome ; )

Cheers,
~Karl

That's a pretty good place to start, then pretty any of the DeCapo Symphony discs, the thing is, you'll end up wishing you had bought the Box Set...trust me...

[Chalkperson]

Mahler, Berlioz, Bruckner, Beethoven, Brahms, Kalinnikov.

Kalinnikov's 1st is excellent, but, it's his only really good work, the Suites are OK, but only just...

[Prometheus]

Mahler, Berlioz, Bruckner, Beethoven, Brahms, Kalinnikov.

Kalinnikov's 1st is excellent, but, it's his only really good work, the Suites are OK, but only just...

The only other work of his I have is the 2nd symphony. It is good, but not like the 1st.

[Lance]

I'm pleased to see someone mentioned Vasily Kalinnikov's Symphony No. 1 in G Minor. I consider this a masterpiece and far prefer it to his Symphony No. 2 in A Major. Oddly, neither of these symphonies have been oft-recorded, but a couple that do exist—especially of No. 1—are splendid, such as the ones conducted by Kondrashin, Golovanov, and Toscanini. Kalinnikov's life was fairly tragic; he died too young from tuberculosis.

[stenka razin]

Walton's.

Thank you----you just reminded me that I forgot ELGAR'S FIRST. It's one of the major late-Romantic masterpieces.

Tschüß,
Jack

I was actually glad to see you had forgotten Elgar's Monolithic and Laboriously (Monotonous) Epic...

Chalkie, try to hear Sir John Barbirolli lovingly conduct Elgar's great 1st Symphony, my friend. I think you might feel differently about this colossal masterpiece after hearing his heart felt performance. +

[Seán]

I have no Langgard recordings, I will have to rectify that in 2011.

The supremely obligatory Rued Langgaard score, Seán, is unquestionably Sfærernes Musik (The Music of the Spheres).

But I'm an unrepentant Langgaard enthusiast, and I enjoy each of the 17 symphonies in the Da Capo box; they cover quite a range of tone and style, so only one aspect of them is, they don't ever make themselves tiresome ; )

Cheers,
~Karl

That's a pretty good place to start, then pretty any of the DeCapo Symphony discs, the thing is, you'll end up wishing you had bought the Box Set...trust me...

The Dausgaard/DNSO complete set of Langgaard symphonies has been in my Amazon basket for quite some time now, I might get it early in the New Year.

[maestrob]

Mahler
Brahms
Walton
Sibelius
Vaughan-Williams
Elgar

All of these show deep originality of thought and are wonderful music.

[bombasticDarren]

Beethoven
Berlioz
Franck
Mahler
Prokofiev
Walton

These are the handful that I feel achieve 'greatness' from the first attempt

[MaestroDJS]

For some reason I've been listening to Hungarian music lately, so here are 3 candidates which date from both very early and very late in their composers' careers. They might not be the best "first" symphonies ever written, but they are very good.

Ernst von Dohnányi (1877-1960): Symphony No 1 in D Minor (1900)
I. Allegro ma non troppo (beginning)
This was Dohnányi's only symphony until 1945 when he completed his Symphony No. 2 in E Major which he revised in 1954-7. Therefore Dohnányi's pair of symphonies span 57 years.



Zoltán Kodály (1882-1967): Symphony in C Major (1960)
This is Kodály's only symphony and final orchestral work, completed when he was 78, probably the latest first symphony by any composer.

Miklós Rózsa (1907-1995): Symphony in Three Movements (1930 / 1993)
Rózsa was 23 when he composed the first version of his symphony, but conductors were reluctant to perform such a vast work by an unknown composer. By the time Rózsa became an established composer, he felt the symphony greatly in need of revision. He carried out some revisions in the 1950s, with a shorter first movement and the scherzo omitted. Then he set it aside again. Eventually in the early 1990s Koch International began an excellent series of recordings of Rózsa's concert orchestral music with James Sedares and the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra, and the then-86-year-old composer completed his final revisions. Thus 63 (count 'em - 63!) years elapsed from first note to last, and Rózsa lived to hear his Symphony performed and recorded.

[springrite]

... Rózsa lived to hear his Symphony performed and recorded.

An interesting side note, Rosza may be the only composer to hear every one of his works performed and recorded in his lifetime. How must other composers envy him in that!

PS: But unfortunately I have never heard his Symphony.

[CharmNewton]

Zoltán Kodály (1882-1967): Symphony in C Major (1960)
This is Kodály's only symphony and final orchestral work, completed when he was 78, probably the latest first symphony by any composer.

According to Wikipedia, he began it in the 1930s.

John

[springrite]

Zoltán Kodály (1882-1967): Symphony in C Major (1960)
This is Kodály's only symphony and final orchestral work, completed when he was 78, probably the latest first symphony by any composer.

According to Wikipedia, he began it in the 1930s.

John

But according to Wikileak, he started working on it 1898 when he was 16.

[karlhenning]

... Rózsa lived to hear his Symphony performed and recorded.

An interesting side note, Rosza may be the only composer to hear every one of his works performed and recorded in his lifetime. How must other composers envy him in that!

I do marvel at his good fortune! May the vice of envy be kept far from my heart : )

Cheers,
~Karl

[MaestroDJS]

... Rózsa lived to hear his Symphony performed and recorded.

An interesting side note, Rosza may be the only composer to hear every one of his works performed and recorded in his lifetime. How must other composers envy him in that!

PS: But unfortunately I have never heard his Symphony.

From the Koch International CD 3-7244-2H1:

It was a moving experience for me to hear the first sounds of my first-born, my Symphony, 60 years after the event! I now see it was a mistake to suppress it, but when one is young — and I was only 23 — one is often unreasonably vulnerable to criticism.

Now Michael Fine, James Sedares and the New Zealand Symphony have brought it to life in a first performance of exemplary fire and passion. In other words they make it sound authentically Hungarian — which was, and always has been, my intention in all my music.

— Miklós Rózsa, Hollywood, November 11, 1993

[starrynight]

I'd put Elgar first, Beethoven second.

[hollowman]

Barber (my #1 no.1, by a long shot): Zinman/Baltimore SO, 1991 Argo
Walton: Colin Davis, LSO, 2005

Ives (a "tribute" to A Dvorak so not too orig. & def, not in same "league" as Barber/Walton as well as the heavyweights you folks note above, but I really like cor anglais!):

[hollowman]

Which Beethoven 1 is best? Of the ones I've heard, Jonathan Del Mar versions by Zinman/Tonhalle seems to be v. good. ( I may in fact prefer the Del Mar/Zinmans for all LVB they've done)

[val]

Favorite: Schumann's First Symphony (Sawallisch, Staatskapelle Dresden).