Haydn: Stabat Mater: Any Recommendations?

[Jared]

Recently, I purchased and enjoyed the Trevor Pinnock version of this piece, but would like to hear another version of this music.



There doesn't appear to be a plethora of choices out there, has by and large been avoided by the big names and there doesn't appear to be an easy, stand out choice on offer. The Third Ear Guide describes the Laszlo Heltay version on Decca London with Auger & Rolfe Johnson as being 'the safest recommendation'. hmmm... is this your view, or would you suggest an alternative?

Thanks in advance, CMGers...

[stenka razin]

Pinnock is wonderful and highly recommended in Haydn's beautiful work.

But, if you want an alternative, the well sung Heltay from 1980 is excellent on Eloquence (Decca), my friend.





Regards,
Mel

[Jared]

^^ thank you Mel, it was the version I was tending towards already, and is residing in my Amazon basket.... how would you say, does it differ from Pinnock's? Larger forces, more traditional interpretation?

[stenka razin]

^^ thank you Mel, it was the version I was tending towards already, and is residing in my Amazon basket.... how would you say, does it differ from Pinnock's? Larger forces, more traditional interpretation?

Jared, your welcome, m8. Laszlo Heltay uses an edition based on the Esterhazy parts though this is not claimed in Robbins Landon sleeve-note. The conductor deserves all praise for approaching the Stabat Mater with such sympathy and understanding. Please enjoy, my friend.


Regards,
Mel

[Jared]

^^ thanks Mel, it will be purchased in my next batch...

[Sator]

I highly recommend the Harnoncourt version.

[Jared]

I highly recommend the Harnoncourt version.

hmmm... I'll be honest, I'm not a big fan of Harnoncourt's, although I'll bear it in mind for the future.. thanks, anyway...

[bombasticDarren]

I highly recommend the Harnoncourt version.

hmmm... I'll be honest, I'm not a big fan of Harnoncourt's, although I'll bear it in mind for the future.. thanks, anyway...

I'm tempted to try Harnoncourt in Haydn's choral works. Can you put your finger on your distaste for Harnoncourt Jared?

I am trying to think of a conductor who I am sceptical of myself....maybe Sinopoli, Mazel or Marriner?

[Jared]

I'm tempted to try Harnoncourt in Haydn's choral works. Can you put your finger on your distaste for Harnoncourt Jared?

hmmm... the word distaste would be too strong Darren... there are excellent conductors who, in all the work of theirs you have heard, never quite do it for you on an emotional level. I won't go through pros and cons of all recordings, but in varying degrees, I have failed to be entirely satisfied by his Schumann Symphs, Schubert Symphs (they were the poorest), Haydn London Symphs, Schubert Masses and the Beethoven PCs with Aimard (although the soloist was fine). There is just something about his conducting which I find a little too calculating, streamlined and a little lacking in spontenaeity and emotion... I realise this is a personal thing, and most on this site enjoy him, so I don't want to be too overtly critical.

When it comes to the Stabat Mater, I already have the Pinnock verson, which has its own sense of austere HIP about it, although I do enjoy Pinnock as a general rule. I guess I wanted something a little different by way of contrast, and don't feel that Harnoncourt would give that to me...

incidentally, I really like the Sinopoli I've heard, and am presently listening to Marriner.. although I agree I do tend to find Maazel, like Masur, rather unexceptional

[bombasticDarren]

I'm tempted to try Harnoncourt in Haydn's choral works. Can you put your finger on your distaste for Harnoncourt Jared?

hmmm... the word distaste would be too strong Darren...

incidentally, I really like the Sinopoli I've heard, and am presently listening to Marriner.. although I agree I do tend to find Maazel, like Masur, rather unexceptional

'Distaste' didn't sit right with me as I typed it, but my mental thesaurus isn't functioning perfectly tonight

I think I may have been too harsh on Sinopoli and Marriner - I do enjoy many of their performances, even if they are rather 'safe'. And Masur? I forgot about him. He is difficult to love, although I do enjoy his Brahms Requiem. Maazel I prefer in his earlier recordings.

[Jared]

^^ I know this thought will chime a chord with you, Darren...

really, this thread is about a CM learner like you or me, coming across a piece of music which might not traditionally have been in the front line of repertoire and therefore not often recorded (look up the number of 'Creations' to the number of 'Stabat Maters' on Amazon!) and being sufficently intrigued by it, to seek out other versions and different interpretations in order to get to know it better... what a really exciting journey we are on!

[bombasticDarren]

^^too true Jared. Long may it continue

[StephenSutton]

Classic version from 1978, by Les Solistes de Paris conducted by H C Fantapie. Not big names I know and not the way the piece would necessarily be sung today; it was an extreme rarity at the time; notes by Robbins Landon who worked with the conductor in preparing the edition; in fact this was made from reconstructed manuscripts in his possession so from that point of view authentic to the hilt. Also includes the much rarer Libera Me. I mention it as it's one of ours and no-one else has. divine art dda21209. James North in Fanfare praised it very highly ( and no we didn t advertise...!) calling the Libera Me 'exquisite'.

Cheers to all.

[Sator]

The Harnoncourt Stabat Mater would probably be amongst the best recordings by this conductor I have ever heard.

I remember interviews with the LSO about 15 years ago when he conducted a Beethoven cycle with them. The members said that it was nonsense that musicians hate rehearsing, because every rehearsal was a thrill with Harnoncourt. Passages they had played a gazillion times over with other conductors suddenly came alive and they saw them in a totally different light. They said that they had played under anyone who was anyone, but that it was rare and exhilarating to feel enthusiastic about playing old repertoire like this with such renewed excitement. Musicians who work with Harnoncourt often say things like this about him. I think he is very much a musician's musician.

[Jared]

^^ thanks for your considerations guys...

Sator, I certainly didn't mean to critisize Harnoncourt's work out of hand.... I just find some of his interpretations hard to love... it's an entirely personal thing and bears no reflection whatsoever on what the rest of the CM loving world think of him..

[Chalkperson]

ator, I certainly didn't mean to critisize Harnoncourt's work out of hand.... I just find some of his interpretations hard to love...

Allow me to put it more bluntly...he makes me want to throw things (like rotten eggs) at the Stereo...

[Jared]

ator, I certainly didn't mean to critisize Harnoncourt's work out of hand.... I just find some of his interpretations hard to love...

Allow me to put it more bluntly...he makes me want to throw things (like rotten eggs) at the Stereo...

wouldn't he need to get to the back of a fairly sizeable queue?

[Chalkperson]

ator, I certainly didn't mean to critisize Harnoncourt's work out of hand.... I just find some of his interpretations hard to love...

Allow me to put it more bluntly...he makes me want to throw things (like rotten eggs) at the Stereo...

wouldn't he need to get to the back of a fairly sizeable queue?

Oh no, he's actually ahead of Toscanini and Furtwangler...

[Jared]

^^ but behind Rattle, no doubt...

[Chalkperson]

^^ but behind Rattle, no doubt...

Everyone is behind LeRat...

[Seán]

ator, I certainly didn't mean to critisize Harnoncourt's work out of hand.... I just find some of his interpretations hard to love...

Allow me to put it more bluntly...he makes me want to throw things (like rotten eggs) at the Stereo...

Ah c'mon now, he's not all bad, Harnoncourt's Beethoven cycle and his Haydn recordings with the Concentus musicus Wien are really very fine performances, his Schubert cycle and Haydn London symphonies leave alot to be desired, I'll admit.

[Seán]

^^ but behind Rattle, no doubt...

Everyone is behind LeRat...

I'm not!

[Chalkperson]

ator, I certainly didn't mean to critisize Harnoncourt's work out of hand.... I just find some of his interpretations hard to love...

Allow me to put it more bluntly...he makes me want to throw things (like rotten eggs) at the Stereo...

Ah c'mon now, he's not all bad, Harnoncourt's Beethoven cycle and his Haydn recordings with the Concentus musicus Wien are really very fine performances, his Schubert cycle and Haydn London symphonies leave alot to be desired, I'll admit.

Ever tried his early recordings? Thought not...

[Chalkperson]

^^ but behind Rattle, no doubt...

Everyone is behind LeRat...

I'm not!

Personally speaking, I would love to be behind LeRat, especially on a Cliff...