Sir Thomas Allen Stirs Some Feathers.................

Your 'hot spot' for all classical music subjects. Non-classical music subjects are to be posted in the Corner Pub.

Moderators: Lance, Corlyss_D

Post Reply
stenka razin
CMG's Chief Decorator
Posts: 4005
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:59 am
Location: In The Steppes Of Central Asia

Sir Thomas Allen Stirs Some Feathers.................

Post by stenka razin » Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:47 pm

The great British baritone is right on target...........Do you agree, my fellow CMGers? 8)

Regards,
Mel 8)


'These people have never sung an opera in their lives'


by Sarah Morrison


The Independent, February 1st, 2012


Opera, often thought of as the "highbrow" music of the cultured few, has never been immune to the populist touch. From Welsh warbler Charlotte Church to Simon Cowell's Il Divo and Popstar to Operastar favourite Joe McElderry, it is now firmly in the mainstream.

While the likes of Katherine Jenkins and Russell Watson might have brought opera to the homes of millions, one of Britain's leading opera singers says the dumbing down of the classical genre is one of the music industry's cruellest tricks.

Sir Thomas Allen, an acclaimed 67-year-old baritone celebrating four decades of singing at the Royal Opera House in London, said popular classical musicians who "have never sung in an opera" are reflective of a "lowbrow" music industry in decline. He added he could never endorse the "fake popularisation" of the genre he has worked in for so long.

"I refuse to give in to this fake popularisation and lowbrow quality, and people claiming to be opera singers when they've never sung in an opera – it's a deceit. Those singers could never do the real thing, here in the Royal Opera, where the non-bastardised version takes place," he said in a recent interview.

His remarks come a decade after he told the Royal Philharmonic Society that attractive young musicians posing in wet T-shirts for "mass appeal" were emblematic of a "civilisation in rapid decline". In his 2002 speech to musicians and recording industry executives, he called the "sugar-coated programming of the recording of choice bits of easy listening" a "plague" and compared promoters of such acts to "well-organised hijackers with no musical sensibilities or taste".

Durham-born Sir Thomas, who has been cited by the playwright Lee Hall as the inspiration for Billy Elliot, was asked if things had changed since he made his now infamous speech. He responded: "No. It all stands." He once said: "The idea of a wet T-shirted quartet where once was Amadeus has me reaching for the sea-sick pills, or just retching."

Last year saw the first tabloid opera in Britain: Anna Nicole at the Royal Opera House told of the life and death of the Playboy model. Before that, Jerry Springer: The Opera featured Jesus, Mary and God as guests on the American TV presenter's show. The opera included up to 300 swear words.
Image

John F
Posts: 21076
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:41 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Sir Thomas Allen Stirs Some Feathers.................

Post by John F » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:23 pm

That's easy for him to say, but I don't agree. What's the difference between actual and "fake" popularization? I'd never heard of Katherine Jenkins before, let alone heard her, but looking for an opera aria by her on YouTube (and finding only two), I came across this:



What's wrong with this? And here's Russell Watson in the aria that Pavarotti brought out of the opera house to the hit parade:



I don't hear any "dumbing down" here. They've even provided the chorus that Puccini wrote into the score, but most aria recitals by established opera singers omit. And Jenkins sings and the orchestra plays Bizet's aria as he wrote it, apart from a brief flourish at the end.

Neither of them, nor the others named in the article (though not by Thomas Allen), are going to sing complete operas in the theatre or on records. They're no threat to the careers and reputations of Angela Gheorghiu and Rolando Villazon, or to the ears of opera-goers. What they have done is bring well-trained voices that are capable of singing opera and classical music into the realm of popular entertainment, and brought along some classical opera selections with them. If Sir Thomas feels threatened by this, after his long and distinguished career, I have to wonder at his insecurity. Seems to me that he's just grousing about a few singers whose popularity, and not incidentally whose looks, go way beyond what all but a very few real opera singers have to offer. What's the problem?
John Francis

Istvan
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:48 am
Location: France

Re: Sir Thomas Allen Stirs Some Feathers.................

Post by Istvan » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:04 am

Easy on the eye and a nice voice. Is she singing in Welsh?
Cheers

Istvan

Image

lennygoran
Posts: 19364
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:28 pm
Location: new york city

Re: Sir Thomas Allen Stirs Some Feathers.................

Post by lennygoran » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:26 am

John F wrote: What's the problem?
No problem for me--2 great arias from 2 great operas very nicely sung! Regards, Len

diegobueno
Winds Specialist
Posts: 3204
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:26 pm
Contact:

Re: Sir Thomas Allen Stirs Some Feathers.................

Post by diegobueno » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:30 am

stenka razin wrote: Last year saw the first tabloid opera in Britain: Anna Nicole at the Royal Opera House told of the life and death of the Playboy model.
With music by Marc-Anthony Turnage, a legitimate, and well respected contemporary composer. What's the problem with that?
Black lives matter.

Burbage
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:38 am

Re: Sir Thomas Allen Stirs Some Feathers.................

Post by Burbage » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:29 pm

diegobueno wrote:With music by Marc-Anthony Turnage, a legitimate, and well respected contemporary composer. What's the problem with that?
Nothing. In fact, that last sentence has very little to do with the rest of the article, but that's not unusual for the Independent, which appears to be run by three journalists and an intern chiefly to annoy the former neighbours of the russian oligarch who owns it.

I think Sir Thomas does make a good point. At first, I thought he was having a pop at English National Opera (a somewhat lower-rent house a few blocks away that sings everything in English. It's perfectly good, but offers mostly home-grown talent, the fashionable stars of the operatic firmament being either too expensive or reluctant to learn the translations).

But he's not. What he's complaining about is people calling themselves opera singers just because they've got shiny teeth and can belt out five minutes of amplified Puccini in a studio. For a knight of the realm, who's spent decades having to sing unaided for hours at a stretch under a half-ton of greasepaint and drapery, dance to the tunes of self-obsessed directors and convince a thousand folk a night that he's ten years younger and five stone lighter, it must seem a touch presumptuous, if not fraudulent. It's like calling yourself an athlete because you once had to run for a bus.

His point about 'easy listening' is less clear. That's a matter of taste, and there's never been a lot of that about. Repurposing chunks of proper works for entertaining the masses, or using sexual allure as a marketing tool, has been going on for longer than Sir Thomas has been alive. Unfortunately, however tawdry the likes of Liszt and Liberace might seem to those of us plagued with discernment, there's little we can do about it save block our ears and weep.

stenka razin
CMG's Chief Decorator
Posts: 4005
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:59 am
Location: In The Steppes Of Central Asia

Re: Sir Thomas Allen Stirs Some Feathers.................

Post by stenka razin » Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:31 pm

I only posted what Sir Thomas Allen wrote. But, as far as I am concerned, there is a very definite dumbing down of classical music going on now and it not a very encouraging sign...... :(

P.S. You all made good points and made me rethink what I posted, but I still think the future looks rather grim for those of us who really, really love classical music..... :(


Regards,
Mel :(
Image

John F
Posts: 21076
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:41 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Sir Thomas Allen Stirs Some Feathers.................

Post by John F » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:26 am

The challenge to classical music isn't the occasional effort to popularize this or that work or tune - which incidentally has been going on for generations, nothing new about it. Mozart exploited the popularity of his hit tune from "Le Nozze di Figaro," "Non piu andrai," in one of his dances for Vienna's carnival balls. The problem is the reduction of the art's status and respect in a dumbed-down culture and society.

As to whether the likes of Katherine Jenkins have the right to call themselves "opera singers," there are no definitive standards of what makes an opera singer except the ability and the will to sing operatic music. I would love to hear (and see!) Jenkins sing operatic roles at Covent Garden or the Met, and I've no doubt she could; she had a solid training at the Royal Academy of Music, graduating with honors. But as far as I know she hasn't tried, and that's not the career she has chosen for herself. For that matter, does she actually call herself an opera singer? I don't believe so, not that it really matters.

As far as I can tell, Thomas Allen would limit the field to those who, he feels, have "paid their dues," and I've no problem with that - as a statement of his personal opinion. Each of us is entitled to our own opinion, and mine is that anyone, professional or amateur, who sings operatic music more often than an occasional venture with "Nessun dorma" (cf. Sarah Brightman) can call herself that if she wants to.
John Francis

maestrob
Posts: 18943
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:30 am

Re: Sir Thomas Allen Stirs Some Feathers.................

Post by maestrob » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:00 pm

Well.....

In my vocal competition, I had lots of "one aria wonders" audition to sing in Carnegie Hall: they would show up (many times with their own customized accompanist), sing their aria, and I would say "Thank-you," and that would be the end of things. Sometimes, if they could handle a second piece, I would request it (if we had time), and they would go on to make an appearance in the semi-finals, inviting all their friends and family (which added to my audience revenue).

If this type of singer were asked to learn a role, or even appear in a scene, it would create an embarrassing situation for both me and the singer involved, so I rarely (if ever) asked. Judging by the way they filled out their audition questionnaire and resume, many of these wannabees were simply not aware of their own limitations, btw., so I had to be gentle with my comments.

"Pop" opera singers are, by definition, members of the wannabee class. Some of them do become famous, but through one limitation or another, are unable to pursue a career in serious opera. Sir Thomas is, therefore, right to point out that there is a difference, and a major one.

OTOH, I am always grateful that these famous wannabees popularize opera in today's market: even if I don't care to listen, I'm happy to get the exposure for my favorite art form, even from non-opera singers. Nothing wrong with that, and it opens doors.

John F
Posts: 21076
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:41 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Sir Thomas Allen Stirs Some Feathers.................

Post by John F » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:31 pm

maestrob wrote:Sir Thomas is, therefore, right to point out that there is a difference, and a major one.
Do you think he's right to associate this with what he calls the dumbing down of opera? Your closing comment suggests that you might disagree.
John Francis

gfweis
Posts: 392
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:02 pm
Location: Aiken, SC

Re: Sir Thomas Allen Stirs Some Feathers.................

Post by gfweis » Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:04 am

I don't know enough to have an opinion on the subject of this thread, but I have enjoyed reading it. One question: it appears to me that Ms. Jenkins is lip-synching in the youtube video. If she is, is that in any way relevant to the discussion?
Greg Weis

maestrob
Posts: 18943
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:30 am

Re: Sir Thomas Allen Stirs Some Feathers.................

Post by maestrob » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:06 am

John F wrote:
maestrob wrote:Sir Thomas is, therefore, right to point out that there is a difference, and a major one.
Do you think he's right to associate this with what he calls the dumbing down of opera? Your closing comment suggests that you might disagree.
Opera at it's peak (Verdi and Puccini) was quite the popular art form in its day, so I have no problem with singers who can perform one or two arias well enough to get on TV. I disagree with Sir Thomas that this phenomenon hurts opera as an art form: frankly, I think it draws people in, the way Peter and the Wolf and Nutcracker drew me to classical music as a child.

What I object to is anyone who thinks that wannabee singers are equivalent to singers who can handle roles in a major house. There's just no comparison. Wannabees don't "dumb down" opera, they simply spread the word to a wider audience, which is a good thing.

John F
Posts: 21076
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:41 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Sir Thomas Allen Stirs Some Feathers.................

Post by John F » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:15 pm

I think most people who know much about opera can tell the difference easily enough. As for the know-nothings, I don't mind if they believe that people like them, only prettier, :) can do opera too.
John Francis

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 12 guests