Besides Wagner, Other Artists With Unpleasant Personalities

[dulcinea]

Among painters, Picasso was quite promiscuous, and his relations with women were often stormy. And, speaking of promiscuity, the list of artists who died of venereal disease is scarily long.

[piston]

See book review CMGF section on godchild of Sibelius. Composers abandoned their own flesh and blood or, in the case of Villa-Lobos, the mate that supported them through all the hard years. But, like today, what is the virtue of persisting in a relationship that cannot be salvaged, even with kids? Life can bring our most unpleasant sides even in the best of us.

[SONNET CLV]

Isn't there a fellow named Gesualdo who sports a rather intriguing biography?

[John F]

For me, a topic of no interest at all.

[dulcinea]

For me, a topic of no interest at all.

Wagner gets so much grief for his prickly personality that 'tis only fair to recall that he is not the only great artist thus afflicted. Titian, for ex., had a reputation for being the Scrooge McDuck of the Late Renaissance.

[piston]

So, Woody Allen apparently said this about Wagner:

“I just can't listen to any more Wagner, you know...I'm starting to get the urge to conquer Poland.”

The theme of conquest is rather interesting and applies to all who have acquired great influence, including Allen....

How would I deal with immense influence and popularity? How would you? You are the center of the world you live in, a semi-god for whom modesty has become impossible to express, to believe in.

Woody Allen, himself, was in that spot, not too long ago....

Unpleasant personalities naturally arise from rightfully acquired self-centeredness. My problem is with generation X individuals who haven't acquired anything, done nothing whatsoever to be remembered for, and behave like fully-entitled semi-gods.

[John F]

For me, a topic of no interest at all.

Wagner gets so much grief for his prickly personality that 'tis only fair to recall that he is not the only great artist thus afflicted. Titian, for ex., had a reputation for being the Scrooge McDuck of the Late Renaissance.

So what? Does that information explain anything in his paintings? If not, why should anybody care? Titian has been dead for nearly 450 years.

[lennygoran]

The theme of conquest is rather interesting and applies to all who have acquired great influence, including Allen....How would I deal with immense influence and popularity? How would you?

I'm a fan of Allen but he sure screwed up the ending of Gianni Schicchi!

"But the only real miscue comes with Mr. Allen’s altered ending. After bamboozling the family of Donati, Puccini’s Schicchi points to the happy Lauretta and Rinuccio, who now have the money to marry, and asks the audience’s indulgence, since his scam has fostered young love. But Mr. Allen has the indomitable Zita (Jill Grove), Donati’s avenging cousin, burst in and stab Schicchi, who poses his question to the audience and then drops dead.

You can understand why Mr. Allen could not resist giving an Italian vendetta twist to Puccini’s happy ending. But isn’t it more comically, cynically, triumphantly right for Schicchi to get away with everything? "

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/08/arts/ ... wanted=all

And speaking of that production came upon this!

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/ar ... story.html

"In his most recent movies, Woody Allen has worked with actors including Emma Stone, Colin Firth and Cate Blanchett. This year, the filmmaker will team up with a different kind of star when he directs tenor Placido Domingo in a return engagement of Puccini's "Gianni Schicchi" that will kick off Los Angeles Opera's 30th anniversary season.

Allen created the production for L.A. Opera in 2008 and will direct Domingo in it in Madrid this summer before the opera returns in September to the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion, where it will be presented on a double bill with a revival of Franco Zeffirelli's staging of "Pagliacci," which Domingo will conduct."

Regards, Len

[dulcinea]

For me, a topic of no interest at all.

Wagner gets so much grief for his prickly personality that 'tis only fair to recall that he is not the only great artist thus afflicted. Titian, for ex., had a reputation for being the Scrooge McDuck of the Late Renaissance.

So what? Does that information explain anything in his paintings? If not, why should anybody care? Titian has been dead for nearly 450 years.

It is inherently interesting to know the personality of artists because often times they have reputations that are undeserved. Boucher and Fragonard were thought to be promiscuous because of the erotica they painted, when in fact they were good family men who were totally loyal to their wives.

[piston]

Do you know which composer this is?
-mentally unstable when young, mentally ill, if not mad, as an adult;
- predatory around little girls, with contemporary references to raping a number of them;
- serial womanizer, also involved in crude homosexual acts;
- involved in dangerous cults, he thought of himself as being Christ; his incomplete music project, with some 70 sketches, was intended to serve to nothing less than to bring the end of the world as humans knew it, after that work was performed in the Himalayas.
- without the generous support of Koussevitzky and his wealthy wife, he'd probably have never composed the orchestral work he is best known for.
- and ... he died one hundred years and one day ago....

[lennygoran]

A wild google stab-Scriabin or poet Rupert Brooke? Regards, Len

[piston]

"Rape," is perhaps too strong a word; they then referred to his relationship with underage girls as "indiscretion" and "scandal."

[lennygoran]

Now I found more material:

"Aleksandr new marriage did not meant he kept himself away from other girls and love affairs. He was still involved with other women and underage girls, and was alleged to have raped many too. For instance, when he taught at the conservatory in 1903, he was charged of having sex with an underage girl.

Scriabin was a serious womanizer and was a predator around young girls.

Death
Scriabin fell ill in London. He had a pimple on his upper lip under his moustache. For obvious reasons the doctors overlooked it, but after the pimple returned, Aleksandra’s temperature soared and several incisions were made on his face. He was infected with streptococcus staphylococcus, which was blood poisoning and then on 27 April 1915, Scriabin died of septicemia."

Regards, Len

http://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles ... in-327.php

[piston]

Not just at the Moscow conservatory but also, right behind the apartment building where he had just moved with Vera and the children, at the St. Catherine's Institute for Young Ladies, where he briefly taught ....

[dulcinea]

It is indeed a sad but unavoidable fact that creators of exalted beauty are creatures of base clay and dust, just like you and me.

[stenka razin]

Do you know which composer this is?
-mentally unstable when young, mentally ill, if not mad, as an adult;
- predatory around little girls, with contemporary references to raping a number of them;
- serial womanizer, also involved in crude homosexual acts;
- involved in dangerous cults, he thought of himself as being Christ; his incomplete music project, with some 70 sketches, was intended to serve to nothing less than to bring the end of the world as humans knew it, after that work was performed in the Himalayas.
- without the generous support of Koussevitzky and his wealthy wife, he'd probably have never composed the orchestral work he is best known for.
- and ... he died one hundred years and one day ago....

After a lifetime of enjoying Scriabin's magnificent music, I must say that your revelations about his personal life disturbed me. I did not know any of this. How could this genius have produced so many beautiful masterworks and at the same time be so mentally unstable and a horrible human being? So sad, so sad......

[piston]

Well, that's the point John F. has made on several occasions: let's not deny artistic achievements on the basis of unfavorable biographical information. And I agree with that opinion. Scriabin had a lot to say at the piano and there's inherent artistic merit to several of these piano compositions. So, focus on the music, not on the life-world of the composer.

If S. Richter, that incredible pianist, could do just that, so should we!

[John F]

The relationship between someone's personality and his/her music is a deep and dark mystery, not just to psychiatrists but to the composer too. I'm inclined to believe that usually there is no such connection. An exception would be vocal music; a composer may choose the subject of an opera or the poems for songs for extramusical reasons that we can understand reasonably well. No doubt Wagner's love life was a powerful influence in his choice of the Tristan story - it even inspired some of the actual music - as was his reading of Schopenhauer in how he shaped the drama and libretto. But composers who were literally insane have composed eminently sane music, Robert Schumann and Hugo Wolf among them, while some of the craziest music I know, depicting the character of Wozzeck, was by the eminently sane Alban Berg.

If we happen to know something of an artist's biography, it may be hard to shut that out of our reception of his/her artistic work. But we should, if we care about the work. An artist's scandalous behavior may have an appeal of its own, that's why yellow journalism sells more newspapers than serious reporting. But such gossip can at best distract from his/her artistic achievement, and at worst actually demean it. That's the last thing we should permit themselves if we really care about art. And if we don't really care about art, why are we here?

[dulcinea]

The relationship between someone's personality and his/her music is a deep and dark mystery, not just to psychiatrists but to the composer too. I'm inclined to believe that usually there is no such connection. An exception would be vocal music; a composer may choose the subject of an opera or the poems for songs for extramusical reasons that we can understand reasonably well. No doubt Wagner's love life was a powerful influence in his choice of the Tristan story - it even inspired some of the actual music - as was his reading of Schopenhauer in how he shaped the drama and libretto. But composers who were literally insane have composed eminently sane music, Robert Schumann and Hugo Wolf among them, while some of the craziest music I know, depicting the character of Wozzeck, was by the eminently sane Alban Berg.

If we happen to know something of an artist's biography, it may be hard to shut that out of our reception of his/her artistic work. But we should, if we care about the work. An artist's scandalous behavior may have an appeal of its own, that's why yellow journalism sells more newspapers than serious reporting. But such gossip can at best distract from his/her artistic achievement, and at worst actually demean it. That's the last thing we should permit themselves if we really care about art. And if we don't really care about art, why are we here?

The personality of some artists have a nasty way of interfering with the appreciation of their work. Diego Rivera and Siqueiros were without a doubt great painters, but they were also passionate communists with an unhealthy affection for the mass murderer of Gori. It certainly doesn't say well of Siqueiros that he tried to assassinate Trotsky on Stalin's behalf.

[John F]

The personality of some artists have a nasty way of interfering with the appreciation of their work.

Only if you know it and if you let it. If you can't prevent yourself from being prejudiced, then you have to choose between appreciating works of art properly and nosing into the private lives of the artists.

[dulcinea]

The personality of some artists have a nasty way of interfering with the appreciation of their work.

Only if you know it and if you let it. If you can't prevent yourself from being prejudiced, then you have to choose between appreciating works of art properly and nosing into the private lives of the artists.

My uncle, Michael Haydn, is too fond of the bottle. One of the brothers of my stepfather was a serious alcoholic, so I learned to let it slide.

[Lance]

Well, if we are talking of "artists" other than composers, there is ELLY NEY, the great German pianist who allegedly was a friend of Adolf Hitler, performed in front of him, and was anti-Semitic. It seems to be well known in circles though her actress daughter, Eleanore, did everything she could to allay her connections with the Nazis. I read a comment somewhere that when asked to substitute for an ailing Rudolf Serkin for a live concert, she did not want to cover for a Jew. [I believe I may have read it in Michael H. Kater's book, Twisted Muse - Musicians and Their Music in the Third Reich. The book was highly recommended to me by several people on line including our dear departed friend, Werner Isler. I must say in the same breath, Ney was a magnificent and very gifted pianist who made many wonderful recordings from the days of 78s right on through to the stereo era up to about three months before her death in 1968. One wonders how such great artistry could, on the one hand, be so splendid, and on the other, so much the other way. I visited her gravesite in Tutzing, covered with flowers and well kept. No doubt her Nazi connections, however they were, followed her to the grave.

This from Wikipedia:

Nazi Links
During the Third Reich [Ney] joined the Nazi Party in 1937, participated in "cultural education" camps, and became an honorary member of the League of German Girls. She held anti-Semite views. Ney was awarded the War Merit Cross, 2nd Class for care for troops. After the war, the city of Bonn imposed a stage ban on her. In 1952 a request for lifting the ban was rejected, stating that Ney was a "pronounced National Socialist". Nevertheless she was named Honorary Citizen of Tutzing in 1952. She continued touring until her death, increasingly concentrating on Beethoven's piano works.

Personal
Elly Ney was married twice; first, in 1911, to the Dutch conductor Willem van Hoogstraten.They had one daughter, Eleonore (1918-2007). They divorced in 1927 and she married Paul Allais, an American coal dealer from Chicago. This marriage didn't last long and later in life Ney reconciled with Van Hoogstraten.

Ney died in Tutzing [Bavaria] in 1968.

[piston]

If you wonder how/why a German pianist of Ney's reputation ended up marrying a Chicago "coal dealer," it's because Paul Florent Allais, a graduate of the Chicago Music School (where he performed at the organ and excelled in music history), probably had the financial means, as the "director of a coal mine" (as stated in German), to follow Ney everywhere when she toured in the US, i.e., seven years in a row, and do some courtship along the way.

Ney published her autobiography in 1957. May be worth reading if you can read German.

[Lance]

Hi Jacques ...

Alas, I cannot read German enough to understand it fully. It would be very nice, of course, if her autobiography was translated into English. I'd love to read what Elly Ney has to say. According to Maria Callas in the play Master Class, everybody needs a "look". Elly Ney certainly had a "look" about her.

Initially, I read where Ney married a Chicago jeweler (wealthy with diamonds) ... but then, a diamond started out as a piece of coal, if memory serves!

I do have a book about Elly Ney with a foreward by her daughter, Eleanore van Hoogstraten. It is entitled: Worte des Dankes an Elly Ney (Words of Thanks to Elly Ney) and is, unfortunately in German. Can you put me on to the title of Elly Ney's autobiography?

If you wonder how/why a German pianist of Ney's reputation ended up marrying a Chicago "coal dealer," it's because Paul Florent Allais, a graduate of the Chicago Music School (where he performed at the organ and excelled in music history), probably had the financial means, as the "director of a coal mine" (as stated in German), to follow Ney everywhere when she toured in the US, i.e., seven years in a row, and do some courtship along the way.

Ney published her autobiography in 1957. May be worth reading if you can read German.

[piston]

The publication year, 1952, is earlier than I thought and it coincides with when the Ney performance ban was lifted. As I said, it's only in German and so are references to academic scholarship I can find on the internet:
http://www.amazon.de/Ein-Leben-f%C3%BCr ... B001BVBECA

In one such academic article, her enthusiastic and vocal support for the Nazis is explained on the basis of these three reasons:
a. the 1936 ban on all Jewish artists performing Beethoven eliminated all her competition, made her the unrivaled performer of Beethoven piano music for years to come;
b. Nazi state control over all artistic matters provided her with the means to achieve her greatest ambition: to bring Beethoven's music to as many people as possible;
c. her vanity was well-known and the Nazis and their supporters greatly inflated pride in herself.

[John F]

The publication year, 1952, is earlier than I thought and it coincides with when the Ney performance ban was lifted. As I said, it's only in German and so are references to academic scholarship I can find on the internet:
http://www.amazon.de/Ein-Leben-f%C3%BCr ... B001BVBECA

In one such academic article, her enthusiastic and vocal support for the Nazis is explained on the basis of these three reasons:
a. the 1936 ban on all Jewish artists performing Beethoven eliminated all her competition, made her the unrivaled performer of Beethoven piano music for years to come;
b. Nazi state control over all artistic matters provided her with the means to achieve her greatest ambition: to bring Beethoven's music to as many people as possible;
c. her vanity was well-known and the Nazis and their supporters greatly inflated pride in herself.

a. is not true. Many other non-Jewish pianists played lots of Beethoven sonatas and concertos throughout the Nazi era. Furtwängler's piano soloists with the Berlin Philharmonic in Beethoven's and others' concertos included Fischer, Kempff, Gieseking, Erdmann, even Dohnanyi, but not Elly Ney.

[karlhenning]

The personality of some artists have a nasty way of interfering with the appreciation of their work.

Only if you know it and if you let it. If you can't prevent yourself from being prejudiced, then you have to choose between appreciating works of art properly and nosing into the private lives of the artists.

Short and entirely to the point.

Cheers,
~k.

[piston]

An interesting photo:

Do you recognize Scriabin, sitting left of the adult, and Rachmaninoff, standing right of him? This adult is a wealthy and authoritarian but very famous Russian piano teacher, Nikolai Zverev, who called his male students (he only accepted male students) his "cubs." Zverev never married and he only accepted "junior" piano students if they severed all ties with their guardians, resided with him, and lived according to his rules. While they remained his students, Scriabin and Rachmaninoff paid nothing for board and clothes, and they received a steady stream of tickets for concerts, operas and plays that Zverev required them to attend. "In exchange for this the [...] boys had to obey his every command and recognize no other authority." "He was also a notorious homosexual who, society gossips said, seduced many of his pensionnaires."
https://books.google.com/books?id=4P0S9 ... ty&f=false
If any of this is true, Zverev is the person who served as Scriabin's father figure during a very critical period of the young man's life.

BBC's Donald Macleod devoted one hour of his "composer of the week" series to Scriabin. Notwithstanding its somewhat frustrating tiny excerpt approach to a composer's music, I am drawn by this format which couples biographical information with composition. France offers an even better similar format devoting five one-hour programs per week to the same composer and thus including more complete works. Here's Macleod's piece on Scriabin:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01yyt0y