A Military March-- Classical Music?

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lennygoran
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A Military March-- Classical Music?

Post by lennygoran » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:16 pm

Someone in the CS forum wanted to know what this was-eventually he seemed to id it himself but wrote this:

"OK, I found out: Farewell of Slavianka. A version by the US Coast Guard Band can be heard here:
https://archive.org/details/FarewellOfSlavianka
The composer is V. Agakpin. This military march is said to have been very popular between WW1 and WW2.
I don't know how appropriate it was to put a military march under Classical/Opera. "

So what do you think-especially John B! Regards, Len :lol:

John F
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Re: A Military March-- Classical Music?

Post by John F » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:00 am

My goodness, how did he discover that? Amazing. Military marches are intrinsically neither classical nor popular music, they are sui generis, though of course a march may become popular ("The Stars and Stripes Forever") and classical composers from Mozart to Wagner and beyond have composed marches for marching, and of course an opera can contain any kind of music - there's a short military march in "Fidelio." Not worth fretting about.
John Francis

david johnson
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Re: A Military March-- Classical Music?

Post by david johnson » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:09 am

Farewell is well known. It's one of my favorites :) Here are two grand performances. I appear to have a crush on the Norwegian picc player in the close where they start singing. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_396VHg6t4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x87nSL58crc

lennygoran
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Re: A Military March-- Classical Music?

Post by lennygoran » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:09 am

david johnson wrote:Farewell is well known. It's one of my favorites :) Here are two grand performances. I appear to have a crush on the Norwegian picc player in the close where they start singing. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_396VHg6t4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x87nSL58crc
David thanks for the links! Regards, Len

Heck148
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Re: A Military March-- Classical Music?

Post by Heck148 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:49 am

John F wrote:...classical composers from Mozart to Wagner and beyond have composed marches for marching, and of course an opera can contain any kind of music - there's a short military march in "Fidelio." Not worth fretting about.
Beethoven wrote some splendid military marches :)

jbuck919
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Re: A Military March-- Classical Music?

Post by jbuck919 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:56 am

Largo al factotum . :) Many pieces in duple time can be transformed into marches. There is a reason that Corlyss gave me my title. I am not about to contradict any previous poster on this thread, am indeed grateful for their insight, but I must add that there is such a thing as a generic military march thanks to one John Philip Sousa, whose major marches are generally superior to those written by European composers (Schubert, the elder Strauss) specifically for that purpose. In plain English, the military march as we know it is pretty much an American invention of which we can still be proud. Based on Sousa's model, many very fine marches have been written by composers who are otherwise unknown. Here is one I grew up with.


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Heck148
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Re: A Military March-- Classical Music?

Post by Heck148 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:10 pm

jbuck919 wrote: In plain English, the military march as we know it is pretty much an American invention of which we can still be proud.
We've had this rap before - the Czechs, Germans French, British all have strong traditions of military marches - before, and contemporary of Sousa.

jbuck919
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Re: A Military March-- Classical Music?

Post by jbuck919 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:39 pm

Heck148 wrote:
jbuck919 wrote: In plain English, the military march as we know it is pretty much an American invention of which we can still be proud.
We've had this rap before - the Czechs, Germans French, British all have strong traditions of military marches - before, and contemporary of Sousa.

Most European marches are utilitarian and inconsequential. That includes, I am sorry to say, Schubert's Marche Militaire which is still in common use, the trio section of thr march from Aida, and, even the eventually transmogrified use of the march by Beethoven. Those marches that have substance in their own right owe as much to Sousa, himself the son of immigrants, as most American marches do. As you know, the genre is actually owing to the Turks, of all people, hence alla Turca. Prior to the Ottoman Janissaries, all armies dating back to ancient times marched to boring drumbeats, possibly broken by the occasional blast from what then passed for a trumpet. Along those lines, Sousa himself had a sense of humor about marches.


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Heck148
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Re: A Military March-- Classical Music?

Post by Heck148 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:48 pm

jbuck919 wrote: Most European marches are utilitarian and inconsequential.
negative - the Czechs have some wonderful marches - Fucik, Kmoch, Komzak, Labsky, Nedbal to name a few. In other nations - Ganne, Coates, Alford wrote fine marches, so did Prokofieff
That includes, I am sorry to say, Schubert's Marche Militaire which is still in common use,
agreed, not one of the greats...
Beethoven's Military Marches are delicious, indeed, very fine wind band pieces.
Those marches that have substance in their own right owe as much to Sousa,
Beethoven was not greatly influenced by Sousa :lol: :lol:

jbuck919
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Re: A Military March-- Classical Music?

Post by jbuck919 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 1:46 am

Heck148 wrote:
jbuck919 wrote: Most European marches are utilitarian and inconsequential.
negative - the Czechs have some wonderful marches - Fucik, Kmoch, Komzak, Labsky, Nedbal to name a few. In other nations - Ganne, Coates, Alford wrote fine marches, so did Prokofieff
I think we have to define our terms here. The march from the Love of Three Oranges does not count as a military march, any more than most Chopin waltzes or the numbers from a Bach suite are meant to be danced to. You will forgive me for not checking every unheard-of name you listed, but I did manage Fucik, whose YouTube selection is serviceable as a military march but greatly inferior. (If it soothes the pain somewhat, I once owned a Nonesuch recording of a Czech band doing an excellent job with marches--by Sousa.)

Beethoven did not write a great march. What he wrote was doggerel transformed into genius. I assume he knew that himself, since he did the same thing with the Diabelli variations.

In the following, it was apparently the intention of the composer that the trio be sung to a syllable by the band the first time around. All bandspersons can sing to one degree or another. Also, the second round of the trio was intended to be whistled, including possibly by the audience. This is the way it was performed at West Point. And in case Heck or Modernistfan are on my case, I am not such a dolt as not to know that it is an open issue whether Goldman actually composed the marches attributed to him.


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Heck148
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Re: A Military March-- Classical Music?

Post by Heck148 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:45 am

jbuck919 wrote: I think we have to define our terms here. The march from the Love of Three Oranges does not count as a military march
Not referring to Love/3 Oranges...try Bb, Op 99...he wrote a number of others as well.
You will forgive me for not checking every unheard-of name you listed, but I did manage Fucik, whose YouTube selection is serviceable as a military march but greatly inferior.
they are unheard of to you, because you are not well-informed. Fucik wrote splendid marches, many, many of them, not just "Entry/Gladiators"...again, you obviously do not know the repertoire...
Beethoven did not write a great march.
again,you are wrong - He wrote splendid Military Marches WoO 18-20

Get with it - Sousa is not the only composer to ever compose a great march...
then there is the entire genre of great circus marches - Karl King, Henry Fillmore, Getty Huffine, etc...

jbuck919
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Re: A Military March-- Classical Music?

Post by jbuck919 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 8:54 am

Heck148 wrote:
jbuck919 wrote: I think we have to define our terms here. The march from the Love of Three Oranges does not count as a military march
Not referring to Love/3 Oranges...try Bb, Op 99...he wrote a number of others as well.
You will forgive me for not checking every unheard-of name you listed, but I did manage Fucik, whose YouTube selection is serviceable as a military march but greatly inferior.
they are unheard of to you, because you are not well-informed. Fucik wrote splendid marches, many, many of them, not just "Entry/Gladiators"...again, you obviously do not know the repertoire...
Beethoven did not write a great march.
again,you are wrong - He wrote splendid Military Marches WoO 18-20


Get with it - Sousa is not the only composer to ever compose a great march...
then there is the entire genre of great circus marches - Karl King, Henry Fillmore, Getty Huffine, etc...
I was not referring to the Entry of the Gladiators, and you cannot possibly mean that a toy march like WoO 18 is a "splendid march." With that I will let this drop, for I have no ambition for a contest in the matter. Have your own way and your own taste.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Heck148
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Re: A Military March-- Classical Music?

Post by Heck148 » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:13 am

jbuck919 wrote: I was not referring to the Entry of the Gladiators,
neither was I.
and you cannot possibly mean that a toy march like WoO 18 is a "splendid march."
I love the LvB military marches...rousing, fun to play, to hear...it does what a march should do...

Sousa was a great march composer, no doubt, but no - SASF is not my favorite, nor is it, IMO, the best.

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