Reputations Risen From Oblivion

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dulcinea
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Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by dulcinea » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:35 pm

Back in my youth, from 1954 to the beginning of the 1970s, Bruckner and Mahler were hardly known at all in Puerto Rico; today they are as famous there as in the rest of the world.
I regularly surf YOUTUBE and MUSIC CHOICE in search of the ,,new'' Bruckner and Mahler, and so far I have discovered such people as Lilburn, Melartin and Raff. Which people have you discovered that you would recommend to me, please?
Let every thing that has breath praise the Lord! Alleluya!

jbuck919
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by jbuck919 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:49 pm

dulcinea wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:35 pm
Lilburn, Melartin and Raff.
You mean this is not a law firm? To paraphrase Donald Francis Tovey, who himself reviewed many justly forgotten composers, we have an unusually large number of masterpieces (he called them perfect compositions) in the standard repertory. I suggest that you devote yourself to them, my dear exact contemporary, rather than pursue this endless quest for more.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

jserraglio
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by jserraglio » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:51 pm

Hans Rott

John F
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by John F » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:14 pm

I'll recommend to you a Swedish composer named Franz Berwald, an older contemporary of Mendelssohn and Berlioz. He's not in oblivion now but he was during his lifetime and long after. When I was in college two of his symphonies came out on records for the first time and I was astonished at their originality. One of them, indeed, is given the name Symphonie Singulière. Here it is, in the very same recording that opened my ears more than 50 years ago.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_0o6uMXjgQ

The scherzo, which comes in the middle of the slow movement, reminds me a bit of the Queen Mab scherzo in Berlioz's Romeo et Juliette symphony. That was first performed just six years before Berwald composed his symphony. In case you don't know it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiAn8MFIAkY
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Lance
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by Lance » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:21 pm

Listen to some of the works of Waldemar Bargiel [1828-1897], half brother of Clara Wieck Schumann. Even Robert thought he had potential. Some good stuff out there.

Alexander Alabiev [Alabieff, Ayabyev] [1787-1851]. A fine Russian composer remembered for songs {The Nightingale}, but who wrote some extraordinary chamber works. He also had a very colorful life!

Charles Valentin Alkan [1813-1888], an extraordinary pianist and composer who wrote some of the most difficult piano music from the Romantic era. Try to hear performances by Raymond Lewenthal, Ronald Smith, Jack Gibbons, Mark-Andre Hamelin, Steven Osborne, John Ogdon among many fine pianists who have recorded Alkan's music.

Then there's Hans Huber [1852-1921], a Swiss composer/pianist whose work has only began to emerge in the last 20 years. Piano concertos, symphonies, symphonic tone poems, songs, choral pieces. Highly original music.

Actually, I could go on and on. This is one of the most wonderful things about recordings: we can discover so much that otherwise may end up in oblivion.
Lance G. Hill
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When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

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Belle
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by Belle » Fri Oct 06, 2017 10:36 pm

Alkan is still under-rated. I presented a lecture about him 2 years ago and this virtuosic piece was included: and Vincenzo Maltempo is a fabulous pianist!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX-FhZJcviA

parsifal
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by parsifal » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:29 am

I´ll thank John Francis for taking up the cudgels for my countryman´s music. The four symphonies of Berwald were written the same decade as the four of Robert Schumann, in the 1840s. Both sets are good but very different as John points out. I don´t understand why the symphonies of Berwald are not more common in the concert programs. For the one who´s interested I can tell that there are two excellent moderns sets recorded: One by Neeme Järvi (DGG) and one by Sixten Ehrling (BIS) Please listen to them and be surprised why they are not performed more frequently.
Kjell Nilsson.

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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by jserraglio » Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:05 am

Uuno Klami

dulcinea
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by dulcinea » Sat Oct 07, 2017 6:30 am

jserraglio wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:51 pm
Hans Rott
And I thought Juan Crisostomo Arriaga had a tragic life! How could Brahms have behaved like such a VERBRECHER=BULLY???
Let every thing that has breath praise the Lord! Alleluya!

jserraglio
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by jserraglio » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:49 am

Maybe Brahms believed in a musical canon with himself as one of the canonized.

maestrob
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by maestrob » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:21 pm

Casella :!:

Belle
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by Belle » Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:37 pm

jserraglio wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:49 am
Maybe Brahms believed in a musical canon with himself as one of the canonized.
He's a musical "saint" to me; that's for sure!!!

What about the symphonies of Carl Nielson? These seem to have returned to oblivion.

jserraglio
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by jserraglio » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:11 pm

a la Nielsen . . .

Robert Simpson

John F
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by John F » Sat Oct 07, 2017 1:55 pm

Belle wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 12:37 pm
What about the symphonies of Carl Nielson? These seem to have returned to oblivion.
Not at all. During the last few seasons, the New York Philharmonic under Alan Gilbert has performed and recorded them all, plus the concertos and some shorter works. The 4th and 5th symphonies turn up now and then on the programs of major orchestras, not only when Scandinavian conductors are in charge.
Last edited by John F on Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
John Francis

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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by Belle » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:54 pm

Well, I'm glad to hear it and I stand corrected (slap!).

jserraglio
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by jserraglio » Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:30 am


jbuck919
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by jbuck919 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:17 pm

jserraglio wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:30 am
Tommie Haglund: brand new on BIS

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... LA0C9KurNQ

Image

Image
These are too recent to be considered "risen from oblivion." Neglected in their own time is another matter. (I happen to like these pieces, and thank you.)

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

jserraglio
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by jserraglio » Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:50 pm

Thanks for glossing that obscure word for me. One should not be oblivious to oblivion, a fate I anticipate eagerly for myself, not for others. But I am being impertinent, so I should instead point to a matter of greater pertinence. We were asked
Which people have you discovered that you would recommend to me, please?
Who is new that might remind one of Mahler or Bruckner? she asked. I thought Dulcinea asked a damn good question. A lot of folks here actually tried to answer it, and from them I picked up several composers to check out I had never heard of before, viz. Alabiev, Bargiel and Huber. So whom might you recommend?
Last edited by jserraglio on Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dulcinea
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by dulcinea » Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:55 pm

May fair Cecilia bless that almost peerless benefactor of humanity, Thomas Alva Edison, without whom a lot of valuable music would remain unplayed, forgotten, or--God forbid--maybe even lost!
Let every thing that has breath praise the Lord! Alleluya!

jbuck919
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by jbuck919 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:42 pm

jserraglio wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:50 pm
Alabiev, Bargiel and Huber.

Aha! Another law firm. :) It is everything I can do to keep up with 20th century organ composers, many of whom are eschewed now even by concert organists in favor of transcriptions.


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

jserraglio
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by jserraglio » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:12 pm

jserraglio wrote: Alabiev, Bargiel and Huber
jbuck919 wrote:Aha! Another law firm
First there was not enough oblivion. Now too much oblivion. Bottom line: new names were asked for, new names were provided.

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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by Lance » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:37 am

John, just curious: did you ever acquire the 10 CD set of Mercury's complete recordings of organist Marcel DuPre? Mercury 478.8838, produced by Philips with the Mercury logo still being used?
jbuck919 wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:42 pm
jserraglio wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:50 pm
Alabiev, Bargiel and Huber.

Aha! Another law firm. :) It is everything I can do to keep up with 20th century organ composers, many of whom are eschewed now even by concert organists in favor of transcriptions.

Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

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jbuck919
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by jbuck919 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:42 am

Lance wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:37 am
John, just curious: did you ever acquire the 10 CD set of Mercury's complete recordings of organist Marcel DuPre? Mercury 478.8838, produced by Philips with the Mercury logo still being used?
.

I'm still working on the idea, Lance. As you know, I am not the recording jock of this site. The last time we met in NYC, my friend Ted said he could bury you in vinyl, but while I know his collection, he was rather impertinent considering the depth of yours and of several other members here. Because of the degree of my friendship with him I had to restrain myself from apologizing. I may still get the DuPré, but I only order a CD these days about once every six months. What I really blame myself for is missing your Saturday night broadcast, which would all by itself fill many gaps.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

dulcinea
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by dulcinea » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:25 pm

jserraglio wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:12 pm
jserraglio wrote: Alabiev, Bargiel and Huber
jbuck919 wrote:Aha! Another law firm
First there was not enough oblivion. Now too much oblivion. Bottom line: new names were asked for, new names were provided.
And I, Dulcinea Quijano of Puerto Rico, am very grateful.
Anybody who has somethig to say, please consider this question: Burt Bacharach is not the JS Bach, the CPE Bach, or the JC Bach of our time. Does that mean that he does not deserve his reputation, and that pieces like DO YOU KNOW THE WAY TO SAN JOSE, WHAT DO YOU GET WHEN YOU FALL IN LOVE and the soundtrack of the CASINO ROYALE of 1967 do not deserve to be played?
Let every thing that has breath praise the Lord! Alleluya!

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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by John F » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:35 pm

Have you actually listened to any of the music we've been telling you about since Friday? What do you think of it?

Burt Bacharach is irrelevant to this topic and this forum. No interest at all in him or his reputation.
John Francis

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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by jserraglio » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:31 pm

John F wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:35 pm
Burt Bacharach is irrelevant to this topic and this forum.
I thought Dulcinea, whose thread this is, was indulging with Bacharach in a bit of lighthearted wordplay. Anyway, BB's Casino Royale Colgems stereo LP is much sought after by audiophiles. Wish I owned it.

Last edited by jserraglio on Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dulcinea
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by dulcinea » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:45 pm

John F wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:35 pm
Have you actually listened to any of the music we've been telling you about since Friday? What do you think of it?

Burt Bacharach is irrelevant to this topic and this forum. No interest at all in him or his reputation.
Darling, BB is very relevant as an example of someone who has earned and still retains his reputation, even though musical fashion has changed. Quite a few of the people enumerated here had the bad luck of changing musical fashion erasing their reputations--reputations that are now reviving thanks to the invention of the great Mr. Edison. :D :D :D :D :D
Let every thing that has breath praise the Lord! Alleluya!

jserraglio
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by jserraglio » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:05 am

If we had to pass a white-glove test as to topic relevance, who among us should 'scape whipping?

So, let a hundred flowers blossom, but may all lordly imprimaturs perish.

dulcinea
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by dulcinea » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:35 pm

YOUTUBE has a lot of Huber; I just finished the 3rd and 8th symphonies.
HUBER was the original form of the name of Herbert Hoover, whose ancestry was Swiss-German; do you suppose Huber was related to the 31st President?
Let every thing that has breath praise the Lord! Alleluya!

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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by jbuck919 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:02 pm

dulcinea wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:35 pm
YOUTUBE has a lot of Huber; I just finished the 3rd and 8th symphonies.
HUBER was the original form of the name of Herbert Hoover, whose ancestry was Swiss-German; do you suppose Huber was related to the 31st President?
This is getting ridiculous. You do know the true story of Harry von Zell introducing a speech by the President of the United States, in all honesty and without intent to ridicule, as Hoobert Heever. (In fact, he tried to correct himself multiple times and continued to get it wrong.)

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

dulcinea
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by dulcinea » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:25 pm

jserraglio wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:51 pm
Hans Rott
I just listened to the symphony that made Brahms see red. A very promising and surprisingly mature piece, truly worthy of Bruckner's admiration.
Let every thing that has breath praise the Lord! Alleluya!

dulcinea
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by dulcinea » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:35 am

I own the Hickox set of the symphonies of Charles Edmund Duncan-Rubbra. I feel they deserve to be much better known. :D :D :D :D :D
Let every thing that has breath praise the Lord! Alleluya!

jserraglio
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by jserraglio » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:14 am

George Lloyd and Grace Williams

dulcinea
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Re: Reputations Risen From Oblivion

Post by dulcinea » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:55 pm

jserraglio wrote:
Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:05 am
Uuno Klami
A devotee of the KALEVALA who is not an imitation of Sibelius: most remarkable!
Let every thing that has breath praise the Lord! Alleluya!

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