A famous hymn

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jbuck919
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A famous hymn

Post by jbuck919 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 1:41 am

Yes, I put this on the right board and you'll see why.

Tomorrow is the Feast of All Saints, which is associated with a great and famous hymn, "For All the Saints." Early in the 20th century there was a contest to replace the insipid tune in the old English Hymnal with a better one. Two of the entrants were CHH Parry and Ralph Vaughan Williams. The latter won with his immortal tune Sine Nomine (which means without a title, since the man hated naming his tunes). Nevertheless, Parry's tune Engelberg lives on to different words.



Last edited by jbuck919 on Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Belle
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Re: A famous hymn

Post by Belle » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:24 am

This reminds me of All Saints' Day in Vienna when we lived there in 2011. It was a public holiday and we just happened to be catching the No. 6 tram from Margareten to Zentralfriedhof for the last time (unaware of the special nature of the holy day) because we were due back in Australia about 6 weeks later. Well, there were hundreds of Viennese at the cemetery, with flowers and lit candles. They always do this on this holy day and we were amazed by the ritual. Even flowers on Beethoven's grave!! It was quite moving. And then, just as we were walking out, a large A380 flew over towards Flughafen Wien - a symbol of what was to come for us. We wouldn't have missed All Saints' Day in Vienna for anything.

jbuck919
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Re: A famous hymn

Post by jbuck919 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:51 am

Belle wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:24 am
This reminds me of All Saints' Day in Vienna when we lived there in 2011. It was a public holiday and we just happened to be catching the No. 6 tram from Margareten to Zentralfriedhof for the last time (unaware of the special nature of the holy day) because we were due back in Australia about 6 weeks later. Well, there were hundreds of Viennese at the cemetery, with flowers and lit candles. They always do this on this holy day and we were amazed by the ritual. Even flowers on Beethoven's grave!! It was quite moving. And then, just as we were walking out, a large A380 flew over towards Flughafen Wien - a symbol of what was to come for us. We wouldn't have missed All Saints' Day in Vienna for anything.
It might have been All Saints, but more likely it was All Souls, which occurs the next day (November 2).

Incidentally, For All the Saints is an exceptionally difficult hymn to set because its meter is irregular. To accompany it properly one has to have every verse memorized, as I have had for many years. Another hymn like that is Holy Holy Holy to the tune Nicaea.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

barney
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Re: A famous hymn

Post by barney » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:51 am

It's not quite clear to me which is Parry and which Elgar. I presume the second is the Elgar, the For All the Saints. I used to sing this at school assembly, when I wasn't skulking behind the bike sheds having a furtive fag (cigarette).

Belle
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Re: A famous hymn

Post by Belle » Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:56 am

jbuck919 wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:51 am
Belle wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:24 am
This reminds me of All Saints' Day in Vienna when we lived there in 2011. It was a public holiday and we just happened to be catching the No. 6 tram from Margareten to Zentralfriedhof for the last time (unaware of the special nature of the holy day) because we were due back in Australia about 6 weeks later. Well, there were hundreds of Viennese at the cemetery, with flowers and lit candles. They always do this on this holy day and we were amazed by the ritual. Even flowers on Beethoven's grave!! It was quite moving. And then, just as we were walking out, a large A380 flew over towards Flughafen Wien - a symbol of what was to come for us. We wouldn't have missed All Saints' Day in Vienna for anything.
It might have been All Saints, but more likely it was All Souls, which occurs the next day (November 2).

Incidentally, For All the Saints is an exceptionally difficult hymn to set because its meter is irregular. To accompany it properly one has to have every verse memorized, as I have had for many years. Another hymn like that is Holy Holy Holy to the tune Nicaea.
I thought it must have been All Souls but it definitely was a public holiday and that's always All Saints!! Perhaps they were getting the job done a day earlier.

jbuck919
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Re: A famous hymn

Post by jbuck919 » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:16 am

barney wrote:
Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:51 am
It's not quite clear to me which is Parry and which Elgar. I presume the second is the Elgar, the For All the Saints. I used to sing this at school assembly, when I wasn't skulking behind the bike sheds having a furtive fag (cigarette).
The second is Vaughan Williams. To my knowledge, and I've been at this for a long time, Elgar did not write any hymn tunes in current use. Vaughan Williams wrote several, including my favorite, setting "Come down, o love divine." As I said, he didn't like naming his tunes, so he called this one Down Ampney, the name of the town where he was born. It is an unusual case of all four parts being interesting. Note that the King's College Choir does not eschew singing the word divine as dee-vine, something trained American choristers are taught to avoid.


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

diegobueno
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Re: A famous hymn

Post by diegobueno » Tue Oct 31, 2017 12:24 pm

Seeing as he was Catholic, I can understand Elgar's reluctance to contribute to the English Hymnal.

barney
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Re: A famous hymn

Post by barney » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:45 am

I too am not aware of any hymns in current use with music written by Elgar. I have a vague feeling that someone adapted Nimrod for use, but that is not the same thing. Elgar's vision for religious music was on a grander scale.

jbuck919
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Re: A famous hymn

Post by jbuck919 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:46 am

barney wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:45 am
I too am not aware of any hymns in current use with music written by Elgar. I have a vague feeling that someone adapted Nimrod for use, but that is not the same thing. Elgar's vision for religious music was on a grander scale.
I suppose you're thinking of Gerontius.

What has happened to Nimrod is that it has become a common organ transcription. I mean, how would you sing something like that? Vaughan Williams wrote several well-known hymn tunes, but one of them was not intended as a hymn. Ït is "Come my way, my truth, my life" from the Five Mystical Songs to texts by George Herbert. I play it all the time. (St. Bartholemew's is one of the great churches of New York City. My college organ teacher was music director there for a number of years.)


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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