martin luther music article

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lennygoran
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martin luther music article

Post by lennygoran » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:26 pm

This article caught my eye-for me it has little meaning but others probably will understand it better-all I know is I love mendelssohn's 5th symphony. Len

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/23/arts ... ction&_r=0

John F
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Re: martin luther music article

Post by John F » Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:22 am

Garrison Keillor had much to say about Lutherans and Lutheranism in his tales from the Minnesota town of Lake Wobegone in "Prairie Home Companion."

As for the "bar form," Fritz Kothner expounds the rules in "Die Meistersinger" Act 1.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5s8SdY0u2g

Hans Sachs teaches Walther the essentials in Act 3. Accordingly, Walther's prize song is in bar form.
John Francis

Belle
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Re: martin luther music article

Post by Belle » Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:01 am

Thank you for those 2 excellent posts with the musical excerpts. I get all dewy-eyed when I see Thomaskirche, Leipzig. Agree with you about Mendelssohn's Symphony No. 5; a moving work.

I enjoyed Garrison Keillor's "Prairie Home Companion" our our ABC-FM national network some years ago.

jbuck919
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Re: martin luther music article

Post by jbuck919 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:33 am

Fine article, but IMO comparing the largely Catholic Renaissance with the largely Lutheran Baroque is comparing apples and oranges. The great Baroque composers, of which were only a couple with a number of decent secondary ones, achieved more in an overall artistic sense than the dozens of great composers of the Renaissance, but they were playing by different rules. The aesthetic frameworks of the two periods were very different.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

barney
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Re: martin luther music article

Post by barney » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:23 am

jbuck919 wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:33 am
Fine article, but IMO comparing the largely Catholic Renaissance with the largely Lutheran Baroque is comparing apples and oranges. The great Baroque composers, of which were only a couple with a number of decent secondary ones, achieved more in an overall artistic sense than the dozens of great composers of the Renaissance, but they were playing by different rules. The aesthetic frameworks of the two periods were very different.
Are you saying the Baroque period was mostly Lutheran? I can't get a Handel on that!

lennygoran
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Re: martin luther music article

Post by lennygoran » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:28 am

barney wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:23 am
Are you saying the Baroque period was mostly Lutheran? I can't get a Handel on that!
Barney you better BACH off from that statement! Regards, Len :lol:

jserraglio
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Re: martin luther music article

Post by jserraglio » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:44 am

As a Lutheran cleric, maybe Italian Baroque Vivaldi's nickname should have been il pastor rosso rather than il prete rosso.

jbuck919
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Re: martin luther music article

Post by jbuck919 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:04 pm

barney wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:23 am
jbuck919 wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:33 am
Fine article, but IMO comparing the largely Catholic Renaissance with the largely Lutheran Baroque is comparing apples and oranges. The great Baroque composers, of which were only a couple with a number of decent secondary ones, achieved more in an overall artistic sense than the dozens of great composers of the Renaissance, but they were playing by different rules. The aesthetic frameworks of the two periods were very different.
Are you saying the Baroque period was mostly Lutheran? I can't get a Handel on that!
I appreciate the pun, but aside from the fact that Handel was a devout Lutheran, I am aware that there are secondary if variably interesting Baroque composers from France and Italy who were Catholic, and that the composer I consider the third great one of the period, D. Scarlatti, was Catholic. I am of course biased by the organ repertory. Some of the French and Italian stuff is nice enough and I still play it, but the amount of more challenging repertory by the Germans is staggering. This morning I played pieces by J.G. Walther. He wrote so many chorale preludes and partitas that I could fill my entire card of preludes and postludes for the entire year just with him.

Some of this is an accident of history. Heinrich Isaac and Ludwig Senfl, the two most important Germanic Renaissance composers, were only not Lutheran because they were born too early. Also, for reasons that I cannot fathom, the Catholic Church has long made Bach an honorary Catholic. Maybe it's because he wrote the Kyrie and Gloria of the B minor Mass for the Catholic court of Dresden, possibly as an audition piece.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

barney
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Re: martin luther music article

Post by barney » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:00 pm

Fair points, John. Catholics have always been good at expropriating others' ideas, and Protestants aren't too bad either. In the hymnbook we use most often there are tunes by Mozart. As we just learnt Luther didn't say, why should the devil have all the good tunes? (I always heard that attributed to William Booth, the Salvation Army founder.)
I like the idea of Vivaldi as a devout Lutheran. A very nice line.

jbuck919
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Re: martin luther music article

Post by jbuck919 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:15 pm

barney wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:00 pm
Fair points, John. Catholics have always been good at expropriating others' ideas, and Protestants aren't too bad either. In the hymnbook we use most often there are tunes by Mozart. As we just learnt Luther didn't say, why should the devil have all the good tunes? (I always heard that attributed to William Booth, the Salvation Army founder.)
I like the idea of Vivaldi as a devout Lutheran. A very nice line.
Who said that? Is it somewhere in this thread and I missed it? Vivaldi was not just Catholic, but a priest. Protestant hymnals are very eclectic, and the best of them such as the one I use can be quite artistic, though every hymnal has its klunkers and decent hymns that never caught on. But while there is a famous tune by Haydn in almost every hymnal, I know of no tunes by Mozart in any of them.

Interesting thing about the Salvation Army. Though the poet Vachel Lindsay made fun of his denomination of upbringing and we associate them with things like Sister Sarah from Guys and Dolls, they are not a fundamentalist or proselytizing denomination. They are about on a par with the mainline United Methodists in the US. Their famous social outreach is real. (In the old days when they picked up used furniture people tended to confuse "salvation" with "salvage" when thinking about them.) They have an excellent band that once appeared at an assembly at the school where I taught.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

barney
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Re: martin luther music article

Post by barney » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:24 am

Yes, you missed it. It's four posts earlier than this one.
In Australia the Salvation Army tends to be more conservative theologically than mainstream denominations, and their social work is certainly real. I support them, and once door-knocked for them in my street. They've had negative publicity recently over historic child sexual abuse in some of their institutions.

John F
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Re: martin luther music article

Post by John F » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:31 am

Charles Ives set an abridged version of Vachel Lindsay's poem, "General William Booth Enters Into Heaven" - one of his best-known songs. I'd say it is not at all mocking, to the contrary, nor is the poem whether abridged or complete.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8jtKb2phpI

And here's the complete poem:

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetry ... nto-heaven
John Francis

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