Why hasn't Reiner's non-CSO recordings been reissued?

Your 'hot spot' for all classical music subjects. Non-classical music subjects are to be posted in the Corner Pub.

Moderators: Lance, Corlyss_D

Post Reply
Lance
Site Administrator
Posts: 17735
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:27 am
Location: Binghamton, New York
Contact:

Why hasn't Reiner's non-CSO recordings been reissued?

Post by Lance » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:52 pm

Fritz Reiner, the conductor who raised the Chicago Symphony Orchestra to perhaps its greatest heights making it one of the world's finest orchestras during his lifetime. Prior to taking over the CSO, he conducted the Pittsburgh from 1938 to 1948 before leaving to go the Metropolitan Opera in NYC. However, he also made recordings with the Pittsburgh, and other orchestras besides the Chicago. Given the fame of what this conductor could do with an orchestra, it is surprising that these early recordings have not come out in a box set of their own. There were actually quite a few recordings made with the Pittsburgh SO that came out on the French LYS label. Biddulph issued some material with Pittsburgh. Reiner also conducted the New York Philharmonic, and Royal Philharmonic, the NBC SO. There was much more to Reiner than the Chicago. Am I missing something somwhere ... has something been issued that bypassed me?
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

Image

parsifal
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:29 am

Re: Why hasn't Reiner's non-CSO recordings been reissued?

Post by parsifal » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:59 am

Thank you Lance for bringing this up. I have some Pittsburg recordings and they are good. I think one reason for not publishing them is that they say that much of it Reiner rerecorded with CSO and that those recordings are better. Personally I can´t get enough of Reiner, so please give it to us!
Kjell Nilsson

david johnson
Posts: 1459
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:04 am
Location: ark/mo

Re: Why hasn't Reiner's non-CSO recordings been reissued?

Post by david johnson » Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:23 am

I have a couple of those Pittsburgh recordings somewhere around my house. I think I'll re-listen to them. I've heard his Verdi Requiem with the VPO was very god.

Heck148
Posts: 3515
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 11:53 pm
Location: New England

Re: Why hasn't Reiner's non-CSO recordings been reissued?

Post by Heck148 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:07 am

Lance wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:52 pm
Fritz Reiner, the conductor who raised the Chicago Symphony Orchestra to perhaps its greatest heights making it one of the world's finest orchestras during his lifetime. Prior to taking over the CSO, he conducted the Pittsburgh from 1938 to 1948 before leaving to go the Metropolitan Opera in NYC.
Most all of these recordings have been issued, tho not by any one label - the PittsSO recordings were done by Columbia, and at one time were released on CBS Masterworks Heritage series, some on Arlecchino, and more recently, a splendid 3 or 4 disc set on Pristine, done by Marc Obert-Thorn...Testament and Guild also released Reiner discs which have some fine examples of his work.
The Pristine set is esp good - an outstanding feature is the Ravel "La Valse" with PittsSO from 4/47....in excellent sound, this is my favorite "La Valse" - the clarity, color, and powerful sweep are amazing....
Not be be missed are his recordings from '56 with ViennaPO - Strauss - Till Eulenspiegel and Death & Transfiguration, Verdi Requiem, Brahms Dvorak Dances...recorded by Decca, these were originally released on RCA. Should still be available on London...also - his 1950 version of the Till/ D&T with RCASO are must-haves for any Reiner fan...RCA[D&T], EMI [Till Great Conductors of Century]...there are even some recordings if Reiner conducting Robin Hood Dell Orch [PhilaOrch - summer Festival]
Good luck, happy hunting!!

John F
Posts: 19966
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:41 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Why hasn't Reiner's non-CSO recordings been reissued?

Post by John F » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:33 am

Until he settled in with the Chicago Symphony, Reiner was pretty much a baton for hire, recording all kinds of repertoire for various labels and with various orchestras, some of them unnamed. It shouldn't be surprising, then, that all this stuff hasn't been gathered into a box. Who would publish it?

For example, Reiner recorded some Debussy and Wagner in 1938 for the World's Greatest Music label. The orchestra may have been the New York Philharmonic. These were apparently his first commercial recordings. They appeared on the World's Greatest Music label, which did not give the names of the performers. The publisher was named as Music Appreciation Products, whoever they are. Who now owns the rights?

Michael Gray hunted down the relevant information and published it in the ARSC Journal for July 1975. The recordings were made by RCA Victor for the Publishers Service Company, "an arm of the New York Post," "using musicians from orchestras then under Victor contracts." They were advertised in newspapers nationwide and within two years a million discs had been sold at deeply cut prices.

(My parents bought the WGM discs of Bach's Brandenburg Concertos nos. 2 and 3, which according to Gray's discography were recorded by 49 members of the Philadelphia Orchestra under Eugene Ormandy, among them the famous principals William Kincaid (flute), Marcel Tabuteau (oboe), concertmaster Alexander Hilsberg, and Saul Caston (trumpet). I always liked those records. :) )

Well, you get the point, I'm sure. Just making a complete list of all of Reiner's commercial recordings is quite a challenge, let alone tracking them down and getting the rights for reissue. More doable would be a set of the Pittsburgh Symphony recordings, preferably including the unpublished material - lots of orchestral Wagner and some Bartok and Kodaly, possibly including "Miraculous Mandarin." That, of course, would be up to Sony.

You'll find Gray's discography online here:

http://www.arsc-audio.org/journals/v7/v07n1-2p33-55.pdf
John Francis

Lance
Site Administrator
Posts: 17735
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:27 am
Location: Binghamton, New York
Contact:

Re: Why hasn't Reiner's non-CSO recordings been reissued?

Post by Lance » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:59 pm

I recall those WGM LPs very well and they were among my first LPs in the earliest days. I thought some of them remarkable then. Somewhere, I must still have them around, but inasmuch as no names were included, we never really knew who was doing what. And at that time I was less interested in the performing artists than in the music. But it is, after all, the performing artist who gives us the music to our ears! We usually quietly thank the composers anyway.
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

Image

RebLem
Posts: 9093
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 1:06 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA 87112, 2 blocks west of the Breaking Bad carwash.
Contact:

Re: Why hasn't Reiner's non-CSO recordings been reissued?

Post by RebLem » Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:58 pm

I have found what seems to be an exhaustive 13 page Reiner discography @ the DISCOGS website. Here is page 1--you can navigate to the others from there.
https://www.discogs.com/artist/406283-Fritz-Reiner
Don't drink and drive. You might spill it.--J. Eugene Baker, aka my late father
"We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term."--Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S. Carolina.
"Racism is America's Original Sin."--Francis Cardinal George, former Roman Catholic Archbishop of Chicago.

John F
Posts: 19966
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:41 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Why hasn't Reiner's non-CSO recordings been reissued?

Post by John F » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:39 pm

Looks like a useful list as far as it goes, but I see it doesn't include Reiner's 1938 recordings for the World's Greatest Music label, and there may be other omissions that I don't have time to look for just now.
John Francis

RebLem
Posts: 9093
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 1:06 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA 87112, 2 blocks west of the Breaking Bad carwash.
Contact:

Re: Why hasn't Reiner's non-CSO recordings been reissued?

Post by RebLem » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:56 pm


Another source of Reiner performances of which some may not be aware is the Chicago Symphony's "From the Archives" series. Reiner performances are peppered throughout this long series, including 2 big boxes, but the CSO issued no less than three 2 disc sets devoted exclusively to Reiner performances.
 
Volume 1 of the series: 1) Berlioz: Overture to Benvenuto Cellini, Op. 23 (11'02), rec. 8 DEC 1957. 2) Vaughn Williams: Fantasia on a theme by Thomas Tallis (18'51), rec. 28 NOV 1957. 3)Schoenberg: Transfigured Night, Op. 4 (30'07), rec. 7 NOV 1957. 4) Wagner: Rienzi Over. (12'57), rec. 27 MAR 1058, and 5) Schumann: Symphony 2 in C Major, Op. 61 (39'43), rec. 31 OCT 1957.
 
Volume 2 of the series: Disc I-- 1) Auber: Overture to Masaniello (7'55), rec. 10 APR 1958. 2) Berlioz: Roimeo Alone--Festivall at the Capulets from Romeo & Juliet, Op. 17 (11'41), rec. 18 OCT 1959. 3) Mussorgsky: Prelude to Khovanschchina (5'27)--rec. 5 DEC 1957, 4) Delius: Prelude to Irmelin (5'30), rec. 10 FEB 1954, 5) Wagner: Lohengrin: Act 1 Prelude (8'32), rec. 24 MAR 1960, 6-11, Webern: Six Pieces for Orchestra, Op. 6 (11'27), rec. 7 NOV 1957, 12-15, Beethoven: Symphony 8 in F Major, Op. 93 (25'21), rec. 6 FEB 1958 |Disc II-- 1) Beethoven Leonore Over. 2, Op. 72a (14'06), rec. 24 OCT 1957. 2) Debussy: Nocturnes for Orchestra: Nuages (10'09), rec. 13 MAR 1957. 3) R Strauss: Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks, Op. 28 (15'08), rec. 31 OCT 1957. 4-6) Bartok: Violin Concerto 2 (1938) (37'27), Yehudi Menuhin, violin, rec. 24 OCT 1957.
 
Volume 3 of the series: No dates given, but these are all performances from the 1957-8 season. Disc I-- 1) Interview with Fritz Reiner by Stephen F Temmer, recording engineer (3'05). 2-5) Haydn: Symphony 104 in DMajor (25'10) 6-9) Beethoven: Symphony 4 in B Flat Major, Op. 60 (30'21) |Disc II-- 1) Berlioz: Roman Carnival Over, Op. 9 (9'05). 2-4) Hindemith: Cello Concerto (1940) (23'35)--Janos Starker, cello. 5) Wagner: Tristan und Isolde: Prelude & Liebestod (20'50). 6) Wagner: Parsifal: Good Friday Spell (12'06).
Don't drink and drive. You might spill it.--J. Eugene Baker, aka my late father
"We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term."--Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S. Carolina.
"Racism is America's Original Sin."--Francis Cardinal George, former Roman Catholic Archbishop of Chicago.

Heck148
Posts: 3515
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 11:53 pm
Location: New England

Re: Why hasn't Reiner's non-CSO recordings been reissued?

Post by Heck148 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:36 pm

RebLem wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:56 pm

Another source of Reiner performances of which some may not be aware is the Chicago Symphony's "From the Archives" series. Reiner performances are peppered throughout this long series, including 2 big boxes, but the CSO issued no less than three 2 disc sets devoted exclusively to Reiner performances........... 

Volume 3 of the series: No dates given, but these are all performances from the 1957-8 season. Disc I-- 1) Interview with Fritz Reiner by Stephen F Temmer, recording engineer (3'05). 2-5) Haydn: Symphony 104 in DMajor (25'10) 6-9) Beethoven: Symphony 4 in B Flat Major, Op. 60 (30'21) |Disc II-- 1) Berlioz: Roman Carnival Over, Op. 9 (9'05). 2-4) Hindemith: Cello Concerto (1940) (23'35)--Janos Starker, cello. 5) Wagner: Tristan und Isolde: Prelude & Liebestod (20'50). 6) Wagner: Parsifal: Good Friday Spell (12'06).
I have Volume I and II - both 2-cd sets directly from CSO - very excellent collections - I have much of Vol III on cd from other sources - A friend copied the entire set on metal cassette for me some years ago. I've not seen the Beethoven 4 or the Hindemith on cd from any other source....the rest have all been available from one source or another...another favorite of mine is "Peter and the Wolf" - Reiner/NBCSO/Lauritz Melchior narrator from 6/49....wonderful performance - Melchior obviously has a great jolly time of it, very rousing and colorful...was available on Guild and Myto labels.

Holden Fourth
Posts: 1421
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:47 am

Re: Why hasn't Reiner's non-CSO recordings been reissued?

Post by Holden Fourth » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:14 am

I have CDRs of parts of volumes 2&3 of the series mentioned by Reblem. it is the only way I could get a complete 'cycle' of the LvB symphonies as RCA only published 1, 3, 5, 6, 7 & 9. #2 comes from the Pittsburgh Years and was issued on CD by Columbia. 2&4 come from the CSO series mentioned above.

I also have the Brandenburgs that were mentioned. Interesting performances to say the least.

Heck148
Posts: 3515
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 11:53 pm
Location: New England

Re: Why hasn't Reiner's non-CSO recordings been reissued?

Post by Heck148 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 1:25 pm

Holden Fourth wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:14 am
I have CDRs of parts of volumes 2&3 of the series mentioned by Reblem. it is the only way I could get a complete 'cycle' of the LvB symphonies as RCA only published 1, 3, 5, 6, 7 & 9. #2 comes from the Pittsburgh Years and was issued on CD by Columbia. 2&4 come from the CSO series mentioned above.
I also have the Brandenburgs that were mentioned. Interesting performances to say the least.
Reiner/CSO did record LvB Sym #2 - it's on a DVD of 1954 TV concert - excellent performance....the #8 is included on archival set - "The Reiner Era II"

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: OffTopic and 31 guests