A great conductor revisited: Alex Ross on Rattle's Mahler

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John F
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Re: A great conductor revisited: Alex Ross on Rattle's Mahler

Post by John F » Thu May 24, 2018 1:28 pm

I heard the 10th and liked it, but it wasn't for me the revelation that it apparently was for Alex Ross.
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maestrob
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Re: A great conductor revisited: Alex Ross on Rattle's Mahler

Post by maestrob » Fri May 25, 2018 10:46 am

In the recordings I've heard, Rattle has a consistent trouble with the shaping and tempo of Romantic music: I stopped listening to him in that repertoire many moons ago. Mahler X is a tough nut to crack: surprisingly, I think Ormandy got it right with his World Premiere recording for Columbia: Rattle just doesn't measure up. Bernstein recorded and performed only the first movement, unfortunately, as did Abbado. Levine's rendition of X is marred by horrendous sonics.

I haven't heard Rattle's latest attempts. If a disc of a new Mahler X comes out, I'll probably give him another chance, but I won't be comfortable doing it. For my money, Rattle's career has really been based on the Peter Principle.

RebLem
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Re: A great conductor revisited: Alex Ross on Rattle's Mahler

Post by RebLem » Fri May 25, 2018 11:27 am

My favorite Mahler 10 is the one done by Leonard Slatkin with the St Louis Symphony Orchestra. He doesn't use the Cooke version; he uses a version prepared by Remo Mazzetti, Jr.
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maestrob
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Re: A great conductor revisited: Alex Ross on Rattle's Mahler

Post by maestrob » Fri May 25, 2018 1:18 pm

RebLem wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 11:27 am
My favorite Mahler 10 is the one done by Leonard Slatkin with the St Louis Symphony Orchestra. He doesn't use the Cooke version; he uses a version prepared by Remo Mazzetti, Jr.
Yes, that's an interesting version, with all its anachronistic (to me!) bells & whistles. Slatkin is a fine conductor (he trained at Juilliard with Jean Morel, who also taught my maestro, La Selva), but he lacks the depth of understanding that I demand in this work. Still, I'm glad I have it in my library.

jserraglio
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Re: A great conductor revisited: Alex Ross on Rattle's Mahler

Post by jserraglio » Sat May 26, 2018 4:37 am

Interested listeners are in luck . . .

Maestro Rattle's Mahler 10 was broadcast on 22 April of this year. So now we can make up our own minds about it. I haven't had a chance to listen to it all yet b/c I just found this video. The LSO does seem in fine form though.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5RIpXSKwn4



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLRtuUyndR8



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfuOwU-5QpU



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFwrNIAR31s



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25kct5t0p7Y&t=8s



Last edited by jserraglio on Sat May 26, 2018 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

jserraglio
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Re: A great conductor revisited: Alex Ross on Rattle's Mahler

Post by jserraglio » Sat May 26, 2018 7:12 am

22 April 2018 Barbicon programme notes: https://lso.co.uk/images/pdf/22-04-Web-compressed.pdf

Michael Tippett's interesting final work, The Rose Lake, led off this concert.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr73E11ee3s

barney
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Re: A great conductor revisited: Alex Ross on Rattle's Mahler

Post by barney » Sun May 27, 2018 7:37 am

maestrob wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 10:46 am
In the recordings I've heard, Rattle has a consistent trouble with the shaping and tempo of Romantic music: I stopped listening to him in that repertoire many moons ago. Mahler X is a tough nut to crack: surprisingly, I think Ormandy got it right with his World Premiere recording for Columbia: Rattle just doesn't measure up. Bernstein recorded and performed only the first movement, unfortunately, as did Abbado. Levine's rendition of X is marred by horrendous sonics.

I haven't heard Rattle's latest attempts. If a disc of a new Mahler X comes out, I'll probably give him another chance, but I won't be comfortable doing it. For my money, Rattle's career has really been based on the Peter Principle.
Phew. The ghost of Chalkperson arises. I was worried there would be no one to lash Rattle since his lamented departure, but you rose to the occasion Brian. :D

maestrob
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Re: A great conductor revisited: Alex Ross on Rattle's Mahler

Post by maestrob » Sun May 27, 2018 10:43 am

barney wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 7:37 am
maestrob wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 10:46 am
In the recordings I've heard, Rattle has a consistent trouble with the shaping and tempo of Romantic music: I stopped listening to him in that repertoire many moons ago. Mahler X is a tough nut to crack: surprisingly, I think Ormandy got it right with his World Premiere recording for Columbia: Rattle just doesn't measure up. Bernstein recorded and performed only the first movement, unfortunately, as did Abbado. Levine's rendition of X is marred by horrendous sonics.

I haven't heard Rattle's latest attempts. If a disc of a new Mahler X comes out, I'll probably give him another chance, but I won't be comfortable doing it. For my money, Rattle's career has really been based on the Peter Principle.
Phew. The ghost of Chalkperson arises. I was worried there would be no one to lash Rattle since his lamented departure, but you rose to the occasion Brian. :D
Heh, heh! I just calls 'em as I see 'em! Am listening to the youtube clips jserraglio posted. The first movement is going well so far...I'll post my thoughts later on.

maestrob
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Re: A great conductor revisited: Alex Ross on Rattle's Mahler

Post by maestrob » Sun May 27, 2018 11:59 am

Well, the LPO played magnificently in this latest attempt by Rattle at Mahler X (posted above). Rattle has gotten a better handle on the piece than I remember from previous interpretations. In fact, my only caveat is the last tempo in Mvt. IV, which is supposed to be played at the tempo primo, but here Rattle indicates 3 beats per measure, which slows down the tempo unacceptably.

So, that little move destroys the architecture of the music, and Rattle fails again, IMHO.

There are a few details here and there that mar the performance, but they can be forgiven as it's a live outing (I'm thinking of an upward glissando in the strings that doesn't quite come off, and is extremely annoying in the final movement.).

The LSO has a fine reputation for Mahler interpretations, starting with Solti in the early 1960's. In this performance, Rattle doesn't interfere much with that and overall earns four stars from your reviewer. That said, I still won't buy the CD.

John F
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Re: A great conductor revisited: Alex Ross on Rattle's Mahler

Post by John F » Sun May 27, 2018 5:02 pm

That's the London Symphony Orchestra. They've been playing magnificently for decades now, with or without Simon Rattle, and they still do - London's most brilliant orchestra and one of the best in the world. It's great that Lincoln Center has continued its annual three-concert LSO series, and I expect we'll be hearing other music than Mahler from them and Rattle in the future.
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jserraglio
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Re: A great conductor revisited: Alex Ross on Rattle's Mahler

Post by jserraglio » Sun May 27, 2018 6:20 pm

Simon Rattle has been conducting magnificently for decades now, with or without the LSO, and he still does.

John F
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Re: A great conductor revisited: Alex Ross on Rattle's Mahler

Post by John F » Sun May 27, 2018 7:08 pm

jserraglio wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 6:20 pm
One might also say that Simon Rattle has been conducting magnificently for decades now, with or without the LSO, and he still does.
Some might, some might not, opinions differ and that's normal. But if we're discussing a particular performance, the one reviewed by Alex Ross in the piece you quoted, I was there and my opinion is first-hand, for what that may be worth. I've expressed no opinion on Rattle's work in general because I have none, but I thought well of his Bruckner and Messiaen concert with the LSO in London some years back, and his "Pelléas et Mélisande" at the Met was fine, if not the greatest I've heard (that would be Levine's). So what's the problem?
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jserraglio
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Re: A great conductor revisited: Alex Ross on Rattle's Mahler

Post by jserraglio » Mon May 28, 2018 3:53 am

John F wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 7:08 pm

Some might, some might not, opinions differ and that's normal . . . So what's the problem?
None. Mine is based on the telecast I posted in this thread, not the NYC performance you attended. Excellent performances of the Mahler and also the Tippett, which I had never heard before.

jserraglio
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Re: A great conductor revisited: Alex Ross on Rattle's Mahler

Post by jserraglio » Mon May 28, 2018 8:39 am

I'm on a Rattle tear this holiday weekend. Always liked the guy ever since he donated himself to a free concert with the Oberlin orchestra—Mahler 4—full disclosure: his kid was a student there.









libretto --> https://lso.co.uk/images/pdf/BERLIOZ_Fa ... stream.pdf

TeeJay
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Re: A great conductor revisited: Alex Ross on Rattle's Mahler

Post by TeeJay » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:19 pm

Rattle is a conductor whose work I admire but never seem to love. I definitely want to give these latest performances a chance to bowl me over.

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