Russian conductor Rozhdestvensky dead at 87

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Russian conductor Rozhdestvensky dead at 87

Post by jserraglio » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:15 am

Last edited by jserraglio on Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestevsky dies at 88

Post by diegobueno » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:33 am

I grew up listening to his recordings of Prokofiev, which were just then being released on the Melodiya/Angel label. The very first recording I heard had the Prokofiev 1st Violin Concerto and on the other side of it was this really blistering performance of Hindemith's Kammermusik no. 4 with Igor Oistrakh.



If you don't have time for the whole thing, at least go to the last 2 minutes and feel your jaw drop.

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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestevsky dies at 88

Post by maestrob » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:21 am

Very sad. Rozhdestvensky, like other Russian conductors of his era (Svetlanov, Mravinsky) made music under the most difficult of circumstances, yet they triumphed. As a teenager, I knew Svetlanov for his electrifying Shostakovich, and Rozhdestvensky for his Prokofiev symphonies (released here on Angel/Melodiya LPs as Mark says), as well as by the Musical Heritage Society, later on CDs. Late in life he put together a successful compilation of Shostakovich's Symphonies, coupled with rare works for orchestra. Hopefully Melodiya will reissue this set on its own, instead of relying on Sony/RCA for distribution.

I had a Korean singer in my competition who appeared at the Bolshoi in Rimsky-Korsakov's Le coq d'or under his baton. She said they all hated him for his sense of musical discipline, but the production was a rousing success. Unfortunately, even Rozhdestvensky could not save the Bolshoi from itself, and he resigned in frustration soon after. This was in the late 1990's, IIRC.

A master then. Sad to know he's gone.

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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestevsky dies at 88

Post by Lance » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:59 am

Sad, indeed. Thankfully, he has left a huge legacy of recordings on myriad labels. I was just looking to see what I had on CDs and it is staggering what he has recorded and with whom, among some of the most celebrated artists. His wife is the pianist Viktoria Postnikova (b. 1944), with whom he has also recorded, including all three Tchaikovsky piano concertos (Decca), and with his wife in two-piano or four-hand piano compositions. Other collaborations include Gidon Kremer, David Oistrakh, Rostropovich, Perlman, Daniil Shafran, Leonid Kogan, Vasso Devetzi, Byron Janis, Igor Zhukov, Natalia Gutman, Victor Merzhanov, Schnittke, Yuri Bashmet, Sviatoslav Richter, Lazar Berman ... incredible list, not to mention countless orchestra and ensembles.
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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestevsky dies at 88

Post by John F » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:37 pm

Rozhdestvensky could be a very funny guy. I remember seeing a clip on TV during Rostropovich's return to the USSR, when he and GR got together for a conversation. Rozhdestvensky scolded Rostropovich for still playing such an old instrument - he should at least give it a coat of paint. (It was a Strad, of course.) Rostropovich picked up on this immediately and said maybe it would look better painted green.
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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestevsky dies at 88

Post by RebLem » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:42 pm

I remember attending a memorable Chicago Symphony concert where Rozhdestvensky did an all-Prokofiev concert--Chout & Alexander Nevsky with, of course, the magnificent CSO Chorus. One thing unusual about him--he conducted without a podium because he didn't want to be standing over the other musicians. Some orchestra members complained that they couldn't see his hand motions with him so far down, so risers were built for them.

Let me also suggest a recording that too few have given much attention. Among my 20 recordings of Stravinsky's Le Sacre du Printemps is one by Rozhdestensky. Its on a 2 CD Nimbus set with Petrouchka (1911), The Firebird Suite (1910), and the Symphony in 3 Movements, all with the London Symphony. Its not my favorite version, but I would say its the most underrated and the least known of my really good versions. I highly recommend it.
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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestevsky dies at 88

Post by Heck148 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:26 pm

Very sad - he was one of the best of the present day...had an outstanding career....

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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestevsky dies at 88

Post by Rach3 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:05 pm

Just starting to listen now, Shostakovich 12th Symphony," The Year 1917 " , Rozhdestevsky conducting Netherlands Radio Phil. at the Concertgebouw May 11, 2002 :

https://www.nporadio4.nl/concerten/4377 ... destvensky

Also on the programme I may hear later , Charles Ives' Symphony # 1.

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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestevsky dies at 88

Post by Rach3 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:57 am

His 1988 recording of the Rachmaninoff 2nd Symphony with London Sym. Orch. on IMP/Regis/Alto :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kero1KSbrE

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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestevsky dies at 88

Post by John F » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:43 pm

Gennady Rozhdestvensky, a Leading Russian Conductor, Dies at 87
By Vivien Schweitzer
June 17, 2018

Gennady Rozhdestvensky, the Russian conductor who championed an eclectic array of music, including works by Alfred Schnittke and Sofia Gubaidulina at a time when the Soviet establishment frowned on those composers, died on Saturday. He was 87. His son, the violinist Sasha Rozhdestvensky, confirmed the death but did not say where his father died. He had struggled with heart problems, diabetes and cancer, his son said.

Mr. Rozhdestvensky, widely admired for the emotional intensity and spontaneity of his performances, recorded some 786 works, ranging from repertory staples to neglected music. He inspired many composers, including Ms. Gubaidulina, who created an orchestral work for him influenced by the “rhythm of his movements.”

In an essay in 1991, Schnittke wrote: “I once calculated that there are now some 40 compositions written for Rozhdestvensky — either derived from his ideas or else he was the first to conduct them. I could not believe it, but it really is so. I could even say that nearly all my own work as a composer depended on contact with him and on the many talks we had. It was in these talks that I conceived the idea for many of my compositions.”

At the height of the Cold War, Mr. Rozhdestvensky was one of the elite Soviet artists permitted to tour abroad. In 1962, at the Edinburgh Festival, he conducted the first performances in the West of Shostakovich’s Symphonies No. 4 and No. 12, with the composer in the audience. In 1971 he conducted the Leningrad Philharmonic Orchestra in a program of Borodin, Tchaikovsky and Prokofiev at the BBC Proms.

He was one of the most prominent conductors in Russia. As the chief conductor of the State Symphony Orchestra of the Soviet Ministry of Culture, he recorded the complete symphonies of Shostakovich, Glazunov, Prokofiev and Bruckner. He was also the principal conductor of the Moscow Radio Symphony Orchestra for more than a decade. Yet he struggled within the confines of the Soviet system, saying: “It is too difficult for me to work with such a bureaucratic machine. It interferes with my creativity and with my art.”

In 1974, Mr. Rozhdestvensky took a risk by conducting Schnittke’s vast, exuberant and polystylistic Symphony No. 1, giving the premiere in Gorky instead of Moscow to avoid provoking the authorities. He also led world premieres of music by leading composers, including Edison Denisov, Rodion Shchedrin and John Tavener, and championed the work of many others, including Prokofiev and the Georgian composer Giya Kancheli.

Mr. Rozhdestvensky led the first complete staging of Prokofiev’s opera “War and Peace” in 1959. He conducted the Russian premiere of Britten’s “A Midsummer’s Night’s Dream” in 1965 and, in 1974, the first Soviet revival of Shostakovich’s “The Nose,” which had not been performed since 1930. He also introduced Soviet audiences to the music of Hindemith, Poulenc, Ralph Vaughan Williams and Orff, among others.


Gennady Nikolayevich Anosov was born on May 4, 1931, to a musical family. His father, Nikolai Anosov, was a conductor and professor at the Moscow Conservatory; his mother, Natalya Rozhdestvenskaya, was a soprano. He used his mother’s name, in its masculine form, professionally to avoid the appearance of nepotism, according to the Bolshoi Theater website. At the Moscow Conservatory he studied piano with Lev Oborin and conducting with his father.

He made his debut as a conductor leading the Bolshoi Theater Orchestra in Tchaikovsky’s “Sleeping Beauty” while still a student, inaugurating a long association with the Bolshoi, where he was principal conductor from 1964 to 1970. Mr. Rozhdestvensky was appointed the ballet and opera company’s artistic director in 2000. But known to be prickly, he resigned the next year after conducting the original version of Prokofiev’s opera “The Gambler”; among other issues, he complained of being treated unfairly by Moscow journalists.


In 2014 Mr. Rozhdestvensky conducted the Bolshoi Opera and Ballet in a two-week residency at the Lincoln Center Festival that included three full ballet productions (“Swan Lake,” “Don Quixote” and “Spartacus”) and concert performances of Rimsky-Korsakov’s “The Tsar’s Bride.” In a review for Musical America, the critic Sedgwick Clark noted a few messy passages but added that he “couldn’t have cared less in light of the abundant warmth and beauty achieved.”

Mr. Rozhdestvensky met Shostakovich while a student and went on to promote his music vigorously. “It would be difficult,” he once said, “to overestimate the significance of my relations with Dmitri Shostakovich and Alfred Schnittke, in that these two titans opened before me a musical universe, like a gigantic magnifying glass reflecting our fragile world.”

The critic John von Rhein praised the “vibrancy, commitment and burning eloquence” of Mr. Rozhdestvensky’s interpretations of Shostakovich in 2016 with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, saying that he “is an unconventional conductor but anything but an eccentric musician.” “He doesn’t use a podium,” Mr. von Rheim added, “and he wields his rapier-like baton less to beat time than to fire cues in every direction. But his musical intentions are always clear.”

Mr. Rozhdestvensky, who liked to keep rehearsals short, once said, “I conduct,” adding: “And if it works, all the better. I’m not one for self-analysis.” But he certainly knew what he wanted. In an interview in 1987, Mr. Rozhdestvensky described his experience leading an ensemble in Europe: “I pleaded with them during rehearsal to play more quietly, but it made no difference.” He said: “The concertmaster told me, ‘But the score says mezzo-forte, not piano.’ I said, ‘If you are driving and see a red light and also a policeman waving you on, do you stop or go? Well, I’m a policeman and the music is a red light.’ ”

He made his debut at the Royal Opera, Covent Garden, in 1970 with Mussorgsky’s “Boris Godunov.” He also conducted at La Scala and the Paris Opera. He had stints as chief conductor at the Vienna Symphony, the Stockholm Philharmonic and the BBC Symphony, and was a guest conductor at important orchestras, including the Berlin Philharmonic, the Cleveland Orchestra, the London Symphony and the Royal Concertgebouw.

In 2008, Mr. Rozhdestvensky was scheduled to conduct with the Boston Symphony Orchestra but withdrew because, he said, he was offended by its marketing. His name had not been included on a list of “Distinguished Conductors” and “Artists who inspire” in the orchestra’s brochure, and he was upset that promotional materials featured a prominent photo of the cellist Lynn Harrell but none of him. “I feel not only slighted, but I suffered what is called in Russian a moral insult,” he said at the time. He also canceled concerts with the Amsterdam Sinfonietta in 2006 and in 2016 at the Philharmonie in Paris after similar incidents. He attracted both support and derision for his decisions to walk out.

Besides his son, survivors include his wife, the pianist Viktoria Postnikova, and three grandchildren.

In a film by Bruno Monsaingeon, Mr. Rozhdestvensky discusses the mysterious art of conducting. “There are no secret formulas,” he says. “It largely depends on intuition. Or perhaps the weather. If one could explain conducting, there wouldn’t be 1,000 conductors, but 10,000. We’d put them in a class and tell them how to spin their arms. Fortunately, some things cannot be explained.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/17/obit ... york-times
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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestevsky dies at 88

Post by THEHORN » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:03 pm

Sad news . He was certainly one of the foremost conductors of our time . His repertoire was huge, by no means limited to Russian music . Among other things he recorded the complete symphony of Bruckner in Moscow , including the various different extent revisions .
He conducted English music , and even the music of Charles Ives, and performed the colossal 4th symphony a number of times . He was one of the few Russian conductors to champion the music of Carl Nielsen, and recorded the symphonies and other works for Chandos . His set of the Sibelius symphonies is also much admired .

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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestevsky dies at 88

Post by jserraglio » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:02 am

He also championed lesser known contemporary Russian composers like Edison Denisov and Alexander Lokshin.

Edison Denisov
“The Sun of the Incas“ 18:31
for soprano and ensemble
Text by Gabriela Mistral

Lidiya Davidova soprano
Soloists of the Leningrad Philharmonic Orchestra
World Premiere Recording, November 30, 1964, Leningrad
_________________________________________________

1979, London

Alexander Lokshin
Symphony No. 3 for Baritone, Male Choir and Orchestra
Verses by R. Kipling (1966) First performance
Symphony No. 3 31:26

Stephen Roberts baritone
Male voices of the BBC Singers
BBC Symphony Orchestra

1980, Moscow
Melodiya LP C 10 1509059-60
---------------------------------------------
Alexander Lokshin
Symphony No. 11 for Soprano and Chamber Orchestra
Verses by Louís de Camõens (1976) First performance
3. Symphony No. 11 20:44

Ludmila Sokolenko Sopran
Soloists’ Ensemble of the State Symphony Orchestra
Gennadi Rozhdestvensky

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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestvensky dies at 88

Post by jserraglio » Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:50 pm

Also little-known Romanian composers such as Tiberiu Olah.

Tiberiu Olah (1928-2002)
Symphony no. 3 (1989) "Metamorfoze pe Sonata Lunii" (after LvB's Moonlight Sonata)

Gennady Rozhdestvensky
George Enescu Philharmonic Orchestra


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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestvensky dies at 88

Post by Belle » Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:51 am

I must say I'm impressed by your knowledge of these lesser-known composers. Haven't heard of any of them myself!

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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestvensky dies at 88

Post by jserraglio » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:24 am

Belle wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:51 am
Haven't heard of any of them myself!
Edison Denisov (1929-1996), Symphony No. 1
USSR Ministry of Culture Orchestra
Gennadi Rozhdestvensky
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiH4u8B_glg

________________________________________________

Edison Denisov, The Sun of Incas
after Gabriela Mistral op.20,
for soprano, flute, oboe, horn, trumpet, two pianos, percussion, violin and cello (1964)
Nelly Lee, soprano
Bolshoi Theatre Soloists Ensemble
Alexander Lazarev, conductor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjO4B73xZTw


________________________________________________

Aleksandr Lokshin (1920-87), Symphony #3
Verses by R. Kipling (1966) First performance
Stephen Roberts baritone
Male voices of the BBC Singers

BBC Symphony Orchestra
Gennadi Rozhdestvensky
1980, Moscow
Melodiya LP C 10 1509059-60
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw-jYRWXdRE

________________________________________________

Aleksandr Lokshin, Symphony #11
for Soprano and Chamber Orchestra
Verses by Louís de Camõens (1976) First performance
Ludmila Sokolenko Sopran
Soloists’ Ensemble of the State Symphony Orchestra

Gennadi Rozhdestvensky
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5gviZHJXVw
Last edited by jserraglio on Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestvensky dies at 88

Post by John F » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:15 am

The name of Edison Denisov is reasonably well known to those who follow post-Shostakovich Soviet music, but his music has been little performed in the U.S. even by visiting Russian musicians and I don't believe I've heard any of it.
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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestvensky dies at 88

Post by jserraglio » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:23 am

John F wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:15 am
The name of Edison Denisov is reasonably well known to those who follow post-Shostakovich Soviet music, but his music has been little performed in the U.S. even by visiting Russian musicians and I don't believe I've heard any of it.
I first ran into Denisov's music and that of other Soviet composers unknown to me when I bought a slew of records on the Russian Disc CD label. They were so cheap at Berkshire Record Outlet I bought them all blind.

Denisov's serialism was non grata in the USSR at the time. Rozhdestvensky defied the authorities and performed his music in Russia even though it was forbidden to play Soviet-styled entartete musik.

Today you can find a reasonable amount of Denisov on YouTube. I posted some that Rozhdestvensky was associated with above.

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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestvensky dies at 88

Post by jserraglio » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:55 am

More info on Rozhdestvensky's championing of Denisov's "Sun of the Incas," courtesy of a music lover from Germany who provided both the info and a broadcast recording of Rozhdestvensky's performance on another forum.
madamasu wrote:Edison Denisov
“The Sun of the Incas“
for soprano and ensemble
Text by Gabriela Mistral
Lidiya Davidova soprano
Soloists of the Leningrad Philharmonic Orchestra

Gennadi Rozhdestvensky

This piece wouldn't have been performed, had not Rozhdestvensky and the orchestra stubbornly insisted. The performance was a great success for Denisov and his staunch supporters. A year later Maderna conducted it in Darmstadt. He recognized it as the first serial composition from the Sovier Union.

Rozhdestvensky was 33, when he conducted it. After Maderna conducted the work in Darmstadt, Boulez programmed it for a “Domaine musicale" concert, also to be conducted by Maderna, and Boulez wrote Denisov that he will pass on the errors Denisov noted in the Darmstadt performance, so Maderna can work on it. Rozhdestvensky was a staunch supporter of Denisov and programmed him even in the Soviet Union, although Denisov's “degenerate" music was not supposed to be performed there.

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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestvensky dies at 88

Post by jserraglio » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:42 am

Pas de Quatre is a four movement compendium of anti-Soviet satire. The composers are Rozhdestvensky, Denisov, Part & Schnittke. I snipped this out of a BBC Radio Classics CD where it served as a filler for the world-premiere performance and recording of Schnittke's Second Symphony and uploaded it to my unlisted (i.e., only those with the link have access to it) YouTube account.

Rozhdestvensky, Denisov, Part & Schnittke - Pas de Quatre (1979)
Gramophone wrote:a characteristically Russian collective effort dating from 1979. Rozhdestvensky’s own contribution applies the story-line of a Krilov fable to Russia’s ‘Second Avant-garde’ in opposition to the authorities. Denisov plays a kind of intellectual mirror-game – his response to an orchestra’s response to a painter’s response to an orchestra. Part’s “The Silencer” takes the form of a Bach organ prelude eventually obliterated by a B minor chord, and leaves us to draw the moral. Schnittke’s own “Polyphonic Tango” targets four apparatchik musicians and artists. As so often with such lampoons the music itself is dire – Schnittke’s is the nearest to a listenable experience. But the sociological interest is obvious.
https://youtu.be/Vm_Kqqh20RM



Imagenotes Pas de quatre by jserraglio, on Flickr

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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestvensky dies at 88

Post by Belle » Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:11 am

Thanks for these links/recommendations; I'll explore them this weekend through by Bluetooth device.

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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestvensky dies at 88

Post by jserraglio » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:53 am

Belle wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:11 am
Thanks for these links/recommendations; I'll explore them this weekend through by Bluetooth device.
Anatol Vieru - Symphony n°6 “Exodus“ op. 112 (1989)
Dedicated to Gennadi Rozhdestvensky

15th Bukarest Enescu-Festival 2001
September 13, 2001, Bukarest
Symphony Orchestra of All-Union Radio and Television
Gennadi Rozhdestvensky

00:05 Tangociaccona
09:30 Exodus
24:37 San Antonio de la Florida
34:30 Pale Sun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kG1hyo8sRg


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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestvensky dies at 88

Post by RebLem » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:58 am

If you look at the sixth post down in this thread, you will find a post by yours truly which was originally the first post in the thread. It also had a link to a gramophone obit @
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical- ... y-has-died
For some reason, that link has been deleted from my post. He was born 4 MAY 1931, and died 16 JUNE 1918. According to my calculations, he died at age 87. Apparently, whoever made the change decided he wanted the incorrect information that he died at 88 in the headline rather than the correct information. Most of the press did incorrectly report his death as occurring in his 88th year, but I bothered to do the math to find out which of the conflicting reports was accurate. Now I find the accurate information has been deleted in favor of the inaccurate information, and my post downgraded from first in line to sixth, with the link to the gramophone story deleted.


If this post or any part of it is also removed, I will take it as a sign that my presence on this website is no longer wanted, and I will close my account here.
Don't drink and drive. You might spill it.--J. Eugene Baker, aka my late father
"We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term."--Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S. Carolina.
"Racism is America's Original Sin."--Francis Cardinal George, former Roman Catholic Archbishop of Chicago.

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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestvensky dies at 88

Post by Lance » Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:19 pm

Hi Reb, I can't imagine how your post was changed. Only I have that ability to alter or delte posts, though, as I recall, the original poster also has some of these benefits) and I have not altered anything you have ever put on. Unless we have been hacked (and I don't believe we have been in a many moons), your posts, as you wrote them should be just as they are.
RebLem wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:58 am
If you look at the sixth post down in this thread, you will find a post by yours truly which was originally the first post in the thread. It also had a link to a gramophone obit @
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical- ... y-has-died
For some reason, that link has been deleted from my post. He was born 4 MAY 1931, and died 16 JUNE 1918. According to my calculations, he died at age 87. Apparently, whoever made the change decided he wanted the incorrect information that he died at 88 in the headline rather than the correct information. Most of the press did incorrectly report his death as occurring in his 88th year, but I bothered to do the math to find out which of the conflicting reports was accurate. Now I find the accurate information has been deleted in favor of the inaccurate information, and my post downgraded from first in line to sixth, with the link to the gramophone story deleted.


If this post or any part of it is also removed, I will take it as a sign that my presence on this website is no longer wanted, and I will close my account here.
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
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When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestvensky dies at 88

Post by jserraglio » Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:32 pm

Lance wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:19 pm
Only I have that ability to alter or delete posts, though, as I recall, the original poster also has some of these benefits)
Dear Lance,

I'm the original poster and of course I didn't alter or delete anything either, not that I could even if I wanted to, having no admin privileges that would allow me anything but read-only access to other members' posts. That is as it should be. The only control the original poster has, in addition to her own post, is over the overall title of the thread.

To demonstrate, as soon as I post this, I will change the title of the initial post in this thread. Despite that change, the headlines of all subsequent posts, including mine, will remain unaltered. The change I make will not be inherited by the rest of the thread, an instance, one might add, of how the good deeds of the father are not visited upon the children.

So, Russia, if you're listening, will you please restore all missing CMG posts for us?
Last edited by jserraglio on Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Russian conductor Rozhdestvensky dead at 87

Post by RebLem » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:18 pm

Now, the posting times listed here in this thread say I was 6th. Actually, I was the first. What evidence do I have? I posted here a minute before or a minute after I did at Good-Music-Guide, where my post is still first in the thread headlined Gennady Rozhdestvensky, R.I.P., on page two of the General Classical Music Discussion room. The date there reads ​ June 16, 2018, 04:58:56 PM I was first here, and it read exactly the same as the GMG post did, with the link to the gramophone story at the end. So, both the date and the position of my post in the thread were altered, by I know not who. I accept Lance's and jss's word that they were not the people who did it, but someone did. Maybe some mischief-maker at Google? I notice Google bots are all over this place.
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jserraglio
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Re: Russian conductor Rozhdestvensky dead at 87

Post by jserraglio » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:37 pm

I'm happy to yield to your recollection of the matter, tho mine is exactly the opposite. I recall reading your correction (so some part of yr post has definitely gone missing) after I had posted my erroneous one and making a mental note that I needed to go back and change age 88 in the title to 87. Of course, I never did so till this evening and that's on me.

Perhaps we were both posting nearly simultaneously?

Once again, I would never change another member's post. And I could not, I lack the security clearance. Only the site administrator can do that (or whatever WikiLeaks munchkins might be lurking here).
Last edited by jserraglio on Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

John F
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Re: Russian conductor Rozhdestvensky dead at 87

Post by John F » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:45 pm

Google's bots are for keeping its search results up to date. They're all over everywhere all the time. I haven't heard that Google has been changing the contents of web sites it doesn't own, and I don't believe it.

It's hard to understand who or what would gain anything by deleting a single normal and inoffensive post. jserraglio has suggested a possible solution. Another is that it could have been a glitch in the system that saves and stores CMG's contents, a very brief network or server outage or something. I've noticed recently that it sometimes has been taking CMG a long time to load. If any other CMG posts are missing from the same time as yours, that could be the reason. Maybe Lance might ask his computer guru about this.
John Francis

jserraglio
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Re: Russian conductor Rozhdestvensky dead at 87

Post by jserraglio » Sun Jul 01, 2018 5:52 pm

Right.

Now that you mention it, I do recall some of my posts getting scrambled when I edit them too fast on the fly.

No malevolence at work, just software not made to keep up with dyslexia.

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Re: Russian conductor Rozhdestvensky dead at 87

Post by RebLem » Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:04 pm

I did not mean to suggest that someone at Google was deliberately sabotaging CMG as part of his job at the direction of his supervisors. I was suggesting that some rogue miscreant there might be engaged in some unsanctioned mischief-making activity.
Don't drink and drive. You might spill it.--J. Eugene Baker, aka my late father
"We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term."--Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S. Carolina.
"Racism is America's Original Sin."--Francis Cardinal George, former Roman Catholic Archbishop of Chicago.

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Re: Russian conductor Gennady Rozhdestvensky dies at 88

Post by Lance » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:23 pm

Lance wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:19 pm
Hi Reb, I can't imagine how your post was changed. Only I have that ability to alter or delete posts, though, as I recall, the original poster also has some of these benefits) and I have not altered anything you have ever put on. Unless we have been hacked (and I don't believe we have been in a many moons), your posts, as you wrote them should be just as they are.
RebLem wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:58 am
If you look at the sixth post down in this thread, you will find a post by yours truly which was originally the first post in the thread. It also had a link to a gramophone obit @
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical- ... y-has-died
For some reason, that link has been deleted from my post. He was born 4 MAY 1931, and died 16 JUNE 1918. According to my calculations, he died at age 87. Apparently, whoever made the change decided he wanted the incorrect information that he died at 88 in the headline rather than the correct information. Most of the press did incorrectly report his death as occurring in his 88th year, but I bothered to do the math to find out which of the conflicting reports was accurate. Now I find the accurate information has been deleted in favor of the inaccurate information, and my post downgraded from first in line to sixth, with the link to the gramophone story deleted.


If this post or any part of it is also removed, I will take it as a sign that my presence on this website is no longer wanted, and I will close my account here.
Lance G. Hill
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John F
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Re: Russian conductor Rozhdestvensky dead at 87

Post by John F » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:46 pm

RebLem wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:04 pm
I did not mean to suggest that someone at Google was deliberately sabotaging CMG as part of his job at the direction of his supervisors. I was suggesting that some rogue miscreant there might be engaged in some unsanctioned mischief-making activity.
Again, there's no plausible reason why anyone at Google would interfere in any way with an inoffensive message posted on Classical Music Guide by you or anyone else, while leaving the rest of the thread intact - including your reposting of the same message. Best to write it off as some kind of software or network glitch, and keep our eyes open in case it happens again.
John Francis

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