Anne Sophie van Otter

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lennygoran
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Anne Sophie van Otter

Post by lennygoran » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:43 am

I wasn't aware of this situation which someone told me about-I saw her at some Met operas and seem to recall a pelleas she was in where she was thrown around the stage like a rag doll by jose van dam but that wasn't the real world-just an opera production. Len

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mor ... c82b758873

jbuck919
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Re: Anne Sophie van Otter

Post by jbuck919 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:12 am

None of this rings remotely true, and I am shocked that the Washington Post published it. In addition, and perhaps irrelevantly, if she was planning a Lieder recital that included clichés like Erlkönig and Die Forelle, when Schubert wrote more than 600 songs, most of them masterpieces, it is hard from simply a musical point of view to have much sympathy. Men do not take their own lives because of anything related to Me Too. It simply doesn't happen, and I speak that as someone whose mother's first husband did commit suicide after being a tank soldier in WW II and returning with what would now be called PTSD.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

John F
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Re: Anne Sophie van Otter

Post by John F » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:36 am

jbuck919 wrote:if she was planning a Lieder recital that included clichés like Erlkönig and Die Forelle, when Schubert wrote more than 600 songs, most of them masterpieces, it is hard from simply a musical point of view to have much sympathy.
How's that again? Her choice of repertoire for an orchestral concert in Australia shouldn't affect our sympathy for her feelings on losing her husband by suicide. And if she says it was because of the accusations of misconduct, nobody knows better than her. Whether or not the accusations were true, perhaps she doesn't know, and we certainly don't - none of us had heard of Benny Fredriksson before reading this story.

I make no excuses for the kind of conduct that has been alleged against so many men in recent years. At the same time, I worry that some of the accusations may be untrue, revenge against an authority figure for other reasons - perhaps merely hurt feelings. I think the Met took the proper course with James Levine, having an independent in-depth investigation before taking action against him. If the Concertgebouw Orchestra fired Daniele Gatti the instant allegations against him appeared in the newspapers, with no investigation, as it appears, that bothers me a lot.

("Erlkönig" and "Die Forelle" may be standard Lieder repertoire but that's for good reason: they're masterpieces. And they aren't heard often in orchestral concerts, "Erlkönig" in Berlioz's orchestration and "Die Forelle" in Britten's.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc4ERZysvEg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbN-2lTYlbY)
John Francis

jbuck919
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Re: Anne Sophie van Otter

Post by jbuck919 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:11 am

They shouldn't be orchestrated at all, Berlioz, Liszt, or no. If this is really Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau as the site claims, he is unrecognizable physically.


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

maestrob
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Re: Anne Sophie van Otter

Post by maestrob » Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:00 pm

Van Otter is only doing what women and children of abusers have done since time began, defending her husband's reputation in public. Of course there should be an investigation by independent authorities. A terribly sad situation.

As for orchestrating Schubert's songs, I have no objection, just as I have no objection to Ravel's orchestration of Mussorgsky's "Pictures."

I am a firm believer in "Believe the Women." I am also a believer in investigations by third parties. It takes great bravery for someone to step forward and announce to the world that he/she has been abused when a career is at stake.

John F
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Re: Anne Sophie van Otter

Post by John F » Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:07 pm

jbuck919 wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:11 am
They shouldn't be orchestrated at all, Berlioz, Liszt, or no.
Why not? The originals with piano remain available to all who want them. Later composers orchestrated their songs originally published with piano accompaniment, Wolf and Mahler for example, after orchestral concerts had become more numerous and central to musical life than in Schubert's time. And while there's nothing special in Berlioz's "Erlkonig," Britten's "Die Forelle" is quite lovely.
John Francis

jbuck919
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Re: Anne Sophie van Otter

Post by jbuck919 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:20 pm

John F wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:07 pm
jbuck919 wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:11 am
They shouldn't be orchestrated at all, Berlioz, Liszt, or no.
Why not? The originals with piano remain available to all who want them. Later composers orchestrated their songs originally published with piano accompaniment, Wolf and Mahler for example, after orchestral concerts had become more numerous and central to musical life than in Schubert's time. And while there's nothing special in Berlioz's "Erlkonig," Britten's "Die Forelle" is quite lovely.
Respectfully to you and maestrob, Wolf and Mahler were not Schubert. (Many people do not realize that the majority of the output of Richard Strauss was also songs with piano accompaniment, though they are scarcely heard anymore). As a matter of fact, the first performance I heard of Gretchen am Spinnrade was an orchestration, and I already in high school recognized it as meretricious. Everything depends on the piano accompaniment imitating the spinning wheel.


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Belle
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Re: Anne Sophie van Otter

Post by Belle » Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:57 pm

John F wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:36 am
jbuck919 wrote:if she was planning a Lieder recital that included clichés like Erlkönig and Die Forelle, when Schubert wrote more than 600 songs, most of them masterpieces, it is hard from simply a musical point of view to have much sympathy.
How's that again? Her choice of repertoire for an orchestral concert in Australia shouldn't affect our sympathy for her feelings on losing her husband by suicide. And if she says it was because of the accusations of misconduct, nobody knows better than her. Whether or not the accusations were true, perhaps she doesn't know, and we certainly don't - none of us had heard of Benny Fredriksson before reading this story.

I make no excuses for the kind of conduct that has been alleged against so many men in recent years. At the same time, I worry that some of the accusations may be untrue, revenge against an authority figure for other reasons - perhaps merely hurt feelings. I think the Met took the proper course with James Levine, having an independent in-depth investigation before taking action against him. If the Concertgebouw Orchestra fired Daniele Gatti the instant allegations against him appeared in the newspapers, with no investigation, as it appears, that bothers me a lot.

("Erlkönig" and "Die Forelle" may be standard Lieder repertoire but that's for good reason: they're masterpieces. And they aren't heard often in orchestral concerts, "Erlkönig" in Berlioz's orchestration and "Die Forelle" in Britten's.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc4ERZysvEg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbN-2lTYlbY)
Bravo.

We currently have Geoffrey Rush here before the courts defending his reputation; a claim against him by one woman (and he's well over 60). I remember reading about Franco Zeffirelli and his behaviour - surely one of the very worst from whom even Kleiber had to defend himself by taking a woman (as a human shield) with him when visiting his Italian home!!

One has to be careful in such cases as those of Rush, who has taken out a defamation suit. Remember Oscar Wilde and his suit against the Marquis of Queensbury? The former ended up in Reading Prison!!

barney
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Re: Anne Sophie van Otter

Post by barney » Tue Aug 07, 2018 5:30 pm

Sue, I am not sure at whom your "bravo" was directed, but I would be interested. My own feeling, which I offer as having no importance whatsoever, is that the #metoo movement has achieved an important breakthrough, but at the cost of innocent casualties. Von Otter's husband may be one; in any event, I respect her for defending him with dignity and without vindictiveness.
I certainly disagree with JohnB about the repertoire. Her recital would have included more than two songs, and I for one would have been delighted to be in the audience to hear the two masterpieces cited. Others of Schubert's 600 songs might have been on the program too.

Belle
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Re: Anne Sophie van Otter

Post by Belle » Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:35 pm

This is the comment I was alluding to, from JohnF:

I make no excuses for the kind of conduct that has been alleged against so many men in recent years. At the same time, I worry that some of the accusations may be untrue, revenge against an authority figure for other reasons - perhaps merely hurt feelings. I think the Met took the proper course with James Levine, having an independent in-depth investigation before taking action against him. If the Concertgebouw Orchestra fired Daniele Gatti the instant allegations against him appeared in the newspapers, with no investigation, as it appears, that bothers me a lot.

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