So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Your 'hot spot' for all classical music subjects. Non-classical music subjects are to be posted in the Corner Pub.

Moderators: Lance, Corlyss_D

Post Reply
Lance
Site Administrator
Posts: 17736
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:27 am
Location: Binghamton, New York
Contact:

So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Post by Lance » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:17 pm

Think of all the mega sets that have come forth. Almost countless, and generally outstanding buys for collectors. One wonders about a Koussevitzky "edition," but probably not [I would certainly buy it!]. But who remembers him today? Appian (APR) still is doing a great service in reissuing mostly historical piano recordings. Decca-Philips-DGG/Universal and EMI/Warner have done a great job, as has Sony Classical (RCA/Columbia).
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

Image

CharmNewton
Posts: 1944
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 9:10 pm

Re: So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Post by CharmNewton » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:56 am

Two omissions that stand out to me are a complete RCA/Columbia Pablo Casals Edition and a complete RCA/Columbia Budapest Quartet Edition. Until recently, Sony hasn't shown much interest in the Budapest Quartet at all in the U.S. The not-so-complete EMI Casals Edition omitted his recordings as a conductor.

I'd be interested in a Francescatti Edition and a Casadesus Edition as well. Perhaps Universal will one day issue a Hollywood Quartet Edition.

As for what's out there, I plan to purchase the Universal box of Henryk Szeryng's recordings and the André Previn collection coming from Sony.

John

jserraglio
Posts: 4818
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 7:06 am
Location: Cleveland, Ohio

Re: So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Post by jserraglio » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:35 am

Ormandy

maestrob
Posts: 5692
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:30 am

Re: So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Post by maestrob » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:52 am

CharmNewton wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:56 am
Two omissions that stand out to me are a complete RCA/Columbia Pablo Casals Edition and a complete RCA/Columbia Budapest Quartet Edition. Until recently, Sony hasn't shown much interest in the Budapest Quartet at all in the U.S. The not-so-complete EMI Casals Edition omitted his recordings as a conductor.

I'd be interested in a Francescatti Edition and a Casadesus Edition as well. Perhaps Universal will one day issue a Hollywood Quartet Edition.

As for what's out there, I plan to purchase the Universal box of Henryk Szeryng's recordings and the André Previn collection coming from Sony.

John
I plan on getting that Szeryng box when it comes out in December. BBC Magazine just named his Mozart Concerti as the best ever, and I have to hear them.

John F
Posts: 19967
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:41 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Post by John F » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:39 pm

Lance mentioned Koussevitzky, but apparently there hasn't been a big box of his recordings, mostly with the Boston Symphony at its peak. If there were I'd strongly recommend it.
John Francis

Lance
Site Administrator
Posts: 17736
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:27 am
Location: Binghamton, New York
Contact:

Re: So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Post by Lance » Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:45 pm

THAT would really have to be a mega-box! No doubt surpassing Szell's given all of Ormandy's Columbia and RCA discs.
jserraglio wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:35 am
Ormandy
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

Image

Lance
Site Administrator
Posts: 17736
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:27 am
Location: Binghamton, New York
Contact:

Re: So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Post by Lance » Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:04 pm

The closest I've seen to a Casadesus "edition" was issued in France, acquired by me in 2004 (it may have come out much earlier than that year). I haven't seen another copy since, but it consisted of 19 CDs on Sony Classical [5034002], which included performances with his wife Gaby, son Jean, and collaborators Szell, Ormandy, Bernac, Bernstein, and many others. Like you, I would also like to see a Francescatti set though I have about 30 CDs on Sony, DGG, EMI/Warner with Francescatti's name showing and some 40 on secondary labels of early- and live performances.
CharmNewton wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:56 am
Two omissions that stand out to me are a complete RCA/Columbia Pablo Casals Edition and a complete RCA/Columbia Budapest Quartet Edition. Until recently, Sony hasn't shown much interest in the Budapest Quartet at all in the U.S. The not-so-complete EMI Casals Edition omitted his recordings as a conductor.

I'd be interested in a Francescatti Edition and a Casadesus Edition as well. Perhaps Universal will one day issue a Hollywood Quartet Edition.

As for what's out there, I plan to purchase the Universal box of Henryk Szeryng's recordings and the André Previn collection coming from Sony.

John
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

Image

maestrob
Posts: 5692
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:30 am

Re: So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Post by maestrob » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:44 am

Lance wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:45 pm
THAT would really have to be a mega-box! No doubt surpassing Szell's given all of Ormandy's Columbia and RCA discs.
jserraglio wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:35 am
Ormandy
Smaller boxes of selected repertoire from Ormandy have already been issued, including his Prokofiev (Japan), Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff and XXth Century repertoire. I think a Sony box of his Shostakovich, while not complete, would be well-received (however incomplete), but I'm not so sure about the rest. IMHO (and I'm speaking about my home town band), Ormandy could be uneven at best in Romantic repertoire from the early stereo recordings I've heard, although his XXth Century repertoire was outstanding (except a quite awful mono Rite of Spring). I have all the Ormandy I want in smaller packages, and would not be up to buying a mega-box just to have his "Martyr de St. Sebastien" on CD.

Lance
Site Administrator
Posts: 17736
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:27 am
Location: Binghamton, New York
Contact:

Re: So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Post by Lance » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:01 pm

Yes, Brian, I quite concur. I don't think I would be in the market for a complete Ormandy edition either. Like you, have much on LP and a considerable amount on CD already, singly and in the smaller boxed sets that have been issued. We DO have to draw a line somewhere, though Szell was quite a different matter! His set is fabulous, to say the least.
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

Image

maestrob
Posts: 5692
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:30 am

Re: So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Post by maestrob » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:39 am

Lance wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:01 pm
Yes, Brian, I quite concur. I don't think I would be in the market for a complete Ormandy edition either. Like you, have much on LP and a considerable amount on CD already, singly and in the smaller boxed sets that have been issued. We DO have to draw a line somewhere, though Szell was quite a different matter! His set is fabulous, to say the least.
Ormandy during the 1960's, while I was attending concerts in the Academy of Music on Broad St. in Philadelphia, evinced a personality that short-changed rehearsals for the Romantic standards (Beethoven Symphonies, Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto, Brahms Symphonies, etc.) in order to present exciting performances of contemporary Russian and other music. Ormandy's relationships with Rachmaninoff, Prokofiev and Shostakovich were well-known in those days, and Ormandy's highly successful recordings of that repertoire were a feather in his cap, along with the first version of Deryck Cooke's realization of Mahler X. All of this happened under my watchful and awestruck eye, and I remember the concerts associated with the recordings we have now.

Billy Wilder once said "You are as good as the best you've done!" Ormandy should be remembered for his XXth Century output, and that's fine by me. Interestingly, the mono recordings I have show much more discipline in core repertoire than he produced in the later stereo performances.

mikealdren
Posts: 292
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:40 am

Re: So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Post by mikealdren » Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:33 pm

maestrob wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:52 am
I plan on getting that Szeryng box when it comes out in December. BBC Magazine just named his Mozart Concerti as the best ever, and I have to hear them.
The Szeryng set was unfashionable for a long while and IIRC many complained that it was included in the Philips Mozart edition rather than the Grumiaux. They are both very good although performing styles have changed enormously over the intervening years. Szeryng includes probably the finest performance of the questionable Op.271a concerto, maybe that was why Philips chose it.

I've just been listening to Szeryng's highly regarded Brahms with Munch, beautiful playing but the recording is rather harsh. The Mozart recording is much better but still rather 'bright'.

barney
Posts: 2959
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Post by barney » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:01 pm

I was one of those who felt the Grumiaux set was better, but it's the one I grew up with so I my not have been neutral. I didn't complain about it though. You are right, Mike, that performance styles have changed and I greatly enjoy many modern renditions. But the seamless purity of Grumiaux, that radiant pure tone, I esteem especially.

Lance
Site Administrator
Posts: 17736
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:27 am
Location: Binghamton, New York
Contact:

Re: So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Post by Lance » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:18 am

Barney, absolutely delight in the work of both violinists. While I have almost everything Grumiaux recorded (I never did get the big box years ago before mega-boxes came forth) but collected his recordings on LPs and CDs voraciously. Szeryng is also a grand artist, quite different, as has been noted, than Grumiaux but every bit as exciting. I may break down and get the Szeryng box because of the addition of many recordings (Mercury) and others, including unreleased material, but would also be a major duplication for me in many ways. Interesting to note, too, that Grumiaux was an accomplished pianist in his own right and even made recordings of him both, playing the violin AND the piano! (Overdubbing.) However, Grumiaux recordings with Clara Haskil are as stimulating as the chamber works Szeryng recorded with several pianists, including Artur Rubinstein.
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

Image

mikealdren
Posts: 292
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:40 am

Re: So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Post by mikealdren » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:53 am

Yes Szeryng's Mozart sonatas with Ingrid Haebler are very good too. I feel he has been badly underestimated since Perlman's quip about not recognising his playing. Mind I sometimes find the same with Gil Shaham, another superb player.

barney
Posts: 2959
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Post by barney » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:28 pm

mikealdren wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:53 am
Yes Szeryng's Mozart sonatas with Ingrid Haebler are very good too. I feel he has been badly underestimated since Perlman's quip about not recognising his playing. Mind I sometimes find the same with Gil Shaham, another superb player.
I'm not familiar with this quotation. Can you provide it more fully?
I certainly don't recognise every violinist's sound, though that may reflect my inadequacy.I think it's great if I can recognise a few, like Grumiaux, Heifetz, Oistrakh.

barney
Posts: 2959
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Post by barney » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:31 pm

Lance wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:18 am
Barney, absolutely delight in the work of both violinists. While I have almost everything Grumiaux recorded (I never did get the big box years ago before mega-boxes came forth) but collected his recordings on LPs and CDs voraciously. Szeryng is also a grand artist, quite different, as has been noted, than Grumiaux but every bit as exciting. I may break down and get the Szeryng box because of the addition of many recordings (Mercury) and others, including unreleased material, but would also be a major duplication for me in many ways. Interesting to note, too, that Grumiaux was an accomplished pianist in his own right and even made recordings of him both, playing the violin AND the piano! (Overdubbing.) However, Grumiaux recordings with Clara Haskil are as stimulating as the chamber works Szeryng recorded with several pianists, including Artur Rubinstein.
I didn't get the Grumiaux set either because I had the majority of the recordings. But I too regret that now. I have a lot of Szerying too, both in CDs and LPs in his own right, and in the two big Mercury boxes. I agree, a superb player.

mikealdren
Posts: 292
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:40 am

Re: So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Post by mikealdren » Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:53 am

barney wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:28 pm
mikealdren wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:53 am
Yes Szeryng's Mozart sonatas with Ingrid Haebler are very good too. I feel he has been badly underestimated since Perlman's quip about not recognising his playing. Mind I sometimes find the same with Gil Shaham, another superb player.
I'm not familiar with this quotation. Can you provide it more fully?
I certainly don't recognise every violinist's sound, though that may reflect my inadequacy.I think it's great if I can recognise a few, like Grumiaux, Heifetz, Oistrakh.
Yes, in Bruno Monsaingeon's documentary 'The Art of the Violin', Perlman is interviewed and proves a perceptive analyst of other players (as you might expect). However his assessment of Szeryng has sadly been too widely promulgated. It's a while since I watched the film but basically he says that when he hears Szeryng 'blind' he finds it's very fine playing but he can't place who is playing, the implication being it's a bit anonymous - not enough distinctive character.

CharmNewton
Posts: 1944
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 9:10 pm

Re: So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Post by CharmNewton » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:05 am

mikealdren wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 3:53 am
barney wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:28 pm
mikealdren wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:53 am
Yes Szeryng's Mozart sonatas with Ingrid Haebler are very good too. I feel he has been badly underestimated since Perlman's quip about not recognising his playing. Mind I sometimes find the same with Gil Shaham, another superb player.
I'm not familiar with this quotation. Can you provide it more fully?
I certainly don't recognise every violinist's sound, though that may reflect my inadequacy.I think it's great if I can recognise a few, like Grumiaux, Heifetz, Oistrakh.
Yes, in Bruno Monsaingeon's documentary 'The Art of the Violin', Perlman is interviewed and proves a perceptive analyst of other players (as you might expect). However his assessment of Szeryng has sadly been too widely promulgated. It's a while since I watched the film but basically he says that when he hears Szeryng 'blind' he finds it's very fine playing but he can't place who is playing, the implication being it's a bit anonymous - not enough distinctive character.
Isn't it in that film where Hilary Hahn voices disagreement with Perlman's comment? She greatly admired the sound Szeryng produced and I like it too. There is a mixture of elegance and some fire in his playing--the Brahms Concerto with Monteux being a case in point. I've never seen a copy of that performance, LP or CD, that wasn't harsh with overload.

John

CharmNewton
Posts: 1944
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 9:10 pm

Re: So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Post by CharmNewton » Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:57 pm

If anyone was still sitting on the fence on this set, Amazon.com is offering it for $131.99 in stock on November 7th and delivered by Monday November 12th.

John

Lance
Site Administrator
Posts: 17736
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:27 am
Location: Binghamton, New York
Contact:

Re: So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Post by Lance » Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:53 pm

I'm not clear on which set CharmNewton/John is referring to here. Can someone put me wise?
CharmNewton wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:57 pm
If anyone was still sitting on the fence on this set, Amazon.com is offering it for $131.99 in stock on November 7th and delivered by Monday November 12th.

John
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

Image

CharmNewton
Posts: 1944
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 9:10 pm

Re: So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Post by CharmNewton » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:10 am

The Szell collection.

John

Lance
Site Administrator
Posts: 17736
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:27 am
Location: Binghamton, New York
Contact:

Re: So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Post by Lance » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:57 am

Thank you, John. That's a heck of a great price. I know several people who paid considerably more. I only paid $150 for mine, no tax and no postage. I'm sure everyone who really wanted this set must have it by now. There must be an overrun of the sets! The highest I saw on Amazon was $900, but I'm sure whoever had it never sold it.
CharmNewton wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:10 am
The Szell collection.

John
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

Image

CharmNewton
Posts: 1944
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 9:10 pm

Re: So, now what's left after Szell to buy?

Post by CharmNewton » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:48 am

Lance wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:57 am
Thank you, John. That's a heck of a great price. I know several people who paid considerably more. I only paid $150 for mine, no tax and no postage. I'm sure everyone who really wanted this set must have it by now. There must be an overrun of the sets! The highest I saw on Amazon was $900, but I'm sure whoever had it never sold it.
CharmNewton wrote:
Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:10 am
The Szell collection.

John
The Szell set is doing well in the U.S. market. An Amazon.com ranking of 433 for all CDs/Vinyl for a box of this price and scope is pretty good. The production values on these sets are high. The miniature jackets are printed an very good stock The CDs slide in and out easily. Even the spines are printed. And everything here is remastered from, hopefully, the best materials available. Given the vast archives of these major labels, digging out the best source material can be a journey itself and probably fun when all the pieces are finally in place.

It wouldn't surprise me to see the price of this box come down even further at some point like the Menuhin set has in recent months. The value of this set is off the charts. I find it special that we have these recordings so inexpensively. Think of all the work that went into making and preserving these recordings over the decades from the producers and artists, to the editors who ensure that master tapes were correctly edited with no bars of music missing or out of place, the tracking of documentary details and contemporary photos. Hats off to the staffs at Columbia, Epic and Sony for the work they do and have done over the decades.

John

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 27 guests