Question about CD blanks

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Lance
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Question about CD blanks

Post by Lance » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:36 pm

Does anyone know for sure if it is possible to buy CD blanks (for copying purposes) that will take longer than 80-minutes? I have a few CDs, one of which almost runs a hair over 84 minutes. I would think, in this day and age, it might be possible now since most CD players can accommodate these longer than 80-minute CDs.
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John F
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Re: Question about CD blanks

Post by John F » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:36 am

This seems to be authoritative:
What capacities of blank CD-R and CD-RW discs are available?
Manufacturers commonly express disc capacity in terms of how much Red Book digital audio (in minutes) and computer data (in megabytes) a disc can contain. Historically, 63 minute/550 MB (12 cm) and 18 minute/158 MB (8 cm) discs were once available but are now rendered obsolete by advances in recording technology. Currently, 74 minute/650 MB, 80 minute/700 MB (12 cm) and 21 minute/185 MB (8 cm) discs are the market standards.

What about 34, 90 and 99 minute CD-R discs?
A few media manufacturers have recently introduced 34 minute/300 MB (8 cm), 90 minute/790 MB and 99 minute/870 MB (12 cm) CD-R discs. To achieve these higher capacities such discs do not conform to Orange Book specifications and, as a result, may not write in all recorders, be accessible to all software or readable in all players and drives. Using 34, 90 and 99 minute CD-R discs is therefore not recommended.
http://www.osta.org/technology/cdqa7.htm

An alternative could be to copy your CDs to DVD-Rs. I've recently put a 106-minute program on a DVD.
John Francis

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Re: Question about CD blanks

Post by Lance » Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:53 am

Very good information, John Francis. Thank you. Still, I have a number of discs on various labels that exceed the 80-minute range. So far, everything has played perfectly on several CD players I've used. One wonders how the commercial companies can do it but not the consumer.
John F wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:36 am
This seems to be authoritative:
What capacities of blank CD-R and CD-RW discs are available?
Manufacturers commonly express disc capacity in terms of how much Red Book digital audio (in minutes) and computer data (in megabytes) a disc can contain. Historically, 63 minute/550 MB (12 cm) and 18 minute/158 MB (8 cm) discs were once available but are now rendered obsolete by advances in recording technology. Currently, 74 minute/650 MB, 80 minute/700 MB (12 cm) and 21 minute/185 MB (8 cm) discs are the market standards.

What about 34, 90 and 99 minute CD-R discs?
A few media manufacturers have recently introduced 34 minute/300 MB (8 cm), 90 minute/790 MB and 99 minute/870 MB (12 cm) CD-R discs. To achieve these higher capacities such discs do not conform to Orange Book specifications and, as a result, may not write in all recorders, be accessible to all software or readable in all players and drives. Using 34, 90 and 99 minute CD-R discs is therefore not recommended.
http://www.osta.org/technology/cdqa7.htm

An alternative could be to copy your CDs to DVD-Rs. I've recently put a 106-minute program on a DVD.
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

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maestrob
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Re: Question about CD blanks

Post by maestrob » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:11 am

I used to have an external drive from a company called Plextor that came with proprietary software that would compress data onto discs that would play up to 99 minutes or a bit more. One can find them all over ebay for about $30, but I'm not sure if they still come with the special software. It's worth looking into, though.....

jserraglio
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Re: Question about CD blanks

Post by jserraglio » Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:15 am

maestrob wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:11 am
I used to have an external drive from a company called Plextor that came with proprietary software that would compress data onto discs that would play up to 99 minutes or a bit more. One can find them all over ebay for about $30, but I'm not sure if they still come with the special software. It's worth looking into, though.....
Wondering, would they play in a regular CD player? Or only on a computer drive?

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Re: Question about CD blanks

Post by maestrob » Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:52 am

jserraglio wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:15 am
maestrob wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:11 am
I used to have an external drive from a company called Plextor that came with proprietary software that would compress data onto discs that would play up to 99 minutes or a bit more. One can find them all over ebay for about $30, but I'm not sure if they still come with the special software. It's worth looking into, though.....
Wondering, would they play in a regular CD player? Or only on a computer drive?
Some do, some don't. Actually, I've played some 90 minute CDs on my Sony CD player/changer with no problem, but the longer discs only worked with the Plextor drive, and I can't play them now either on my computer or the Sony or on the DVD player I have hooked up to my stereo. Because of the incompatibility, I never replaced the Plextor drive, but it was fun while I had it.

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Re: Question about CD blanks

Post by Lance » Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:15 pm

A disc just came into today. It's timing: 86:57. Music by Jan Ladislav Dussek (1760-1812) consisting of his Concerto for Two Pianos, Op.. 63; Piano Quintet, Op. 41; and Notturno Concertant, Op. 68. Olga Paschenko and Alexei Lubimov are the fortepianists with the Finnish Baroque Orchestra. Two selections are world premiere recordings on period instruments, Opp. 63 and 68. Alpha 416. I haven't tried to play it yet but I expect not to have problems.
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John F
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Re: Question about CD blanks

Post by John F » Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:25 pm

Why don't you just buy a few of the extended play CD-Rs and try them? They aren't expensive. For example:

https://www.amazon.com/CD-R-40X-High-Ca ... d-r+800+mg

The customer comments speak of "overburning" to get the extra time, for which you need software that can do it. One comment mentions Nero, the only such software I've heard of:

https://www.nero.com/enu/?vlang=us

After a 30 day free trial you're supposed to pay an annual fee if you want to keep using it. The problem is that overburning can possibly damage the CD drive. See these comments:

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/ ... rn.183992/

If it were me, I wouldn't do it, because I don't know enough and may not have or be able to get what it takes to do it safely. Just because a record company has the hardware, software, and know-how to create and duplicate high capacity CDs doesn't mean we amateurs with home PCs and commercial software can do it.
John Francis

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Re: Question about CD blanks

Post by Holden Fourth » Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:02 pm

Does your CD player have a USB port?

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Re: Question about CD blanks

Post by Lance » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:01 am

I have a several CD players, but quite honestly, I never checked for a USB port having never really needed to use it for the purpose intended in copying. Can you tell me what's on your mind. Maybe I should investigate. And thank you!
Holden Fourth wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:02 pm
Does your CD player have a USB port?
Lance G. Hill
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Re: Question about CD blanks

Post by Lance » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:10 am

John Francis … you amaze me continually! I never knew there were 90-minute CDs. I've checked the Amazon site via your link and I have since ordered them you're right. They're cheap at only $2.15/apiece to be used for special applications.

I use CyberLink's Power2Go for most of things I do with CDs and DVD's. I like the program very much. When I copied to the hard drive this overlong CD, I got a comment that there was too much time for the 80-minute CD-R and that I needed to use a different disc. (I did not know about the 90-minute ones!) So, apparently, CyberLink's Power2Go DOES allow for this. I do not intend to use these very often, but on occasion, there is a need. I will keep you advised on what happens after the new blank discs arrive. I see that more and more companies (DGG, Naxos, Alpha, and others are now going over 80 minutes. It must be a trend.)

John F wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:25 pm
Why don't you just buy a few of the extended play CD-Rs and try them? They aren't expensive. For example:

https://www.amazon.com/CD-R-40X-High-Ca ... d-r+800+mg

The customer comments speak of "overburning" to get the extra time, for which you need software that can do it. One comment mentions Nero, the only such software I've heard of:

https://www.nero.com/enu/?vlang=us

After a 30 day free trial you're supposed to pay an annual fee if you want to keep using it. The problem is that overburning can possibly damage the CD drive. See these comments:

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/ ... rn.183992/

If it were me, I wouldn't do it, because I don't know enough and may not have or be able to get what it takes to do it safely. Just because a record company has the hardware, software, and know-how to create and duplicate high capacity CDs doesn't mean we amateurs with home PCs and commercial software can do it.
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

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John F
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Re: Question about CD blanks

Post by John F » Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:56 am

Nothing to it, Lance - I just use Google and ask a few simple questions. :) I really know nothing about this and am learning as I go.

Cyberlink's FAQs include this: "The Disc overburn feature, which is only available when burning data disc, let's you add 5 - 10MB extra to your disc. This feature was added to compensate for a large file at the end of your sessions that otherwise would have to be put on a separate disc." Making a music CD, one that will play in a CD player, is a different matter from making a data CD, and I take this FAQ to mean that Power2Go won't create a long music CD as you want. What you've just posted tells me something similar - the opposite of your interpretation: Power2Go can't read an extended play CD, let alone write to it. Check the program's user's guide, if one is provided, to find specific instructions.

By all means try to do it if you must, but from what I've seen so far online, Nero is the only software that people have used often and successfully to overburn a music CD. And you risk damaging your computer's CD-R drive.
John Francis

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Re: Question about CD blanks

Post by maestrob » Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:20 am

John, thank you for finding out about those 90 minute CDs. I had no idea they existed. Will give them a try with my Roxio software and report back.......

I'm not convinced that using them will harm my CD computer drives. There's nothing in the reviews on the amazon product page warning about this.

In fact, when I used to "overburn" with my Plextor drive, I remember that the overburn feature (i.e. squeezing extra music on a CD) would simply not work with my other drives, only with the Plextor drive. Since using a 90 minute CD involves no overburning, I see no harm in doing it.

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Re: Question about CD blanks

Post by Lance » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:55 pm

John, I am heeding your advice and will proceed with caution. I used to have NERO, so maybe I should acquire that software. It will be handy to have. Again, my thanks!
John F wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:56 am
Nothing to it, Lance - I just use Google and ask a few simple questions. :) I really know nothing about this and am learning as I go.

Cyberlink's FAQs include this: "The Disc overburn feature, which is only available when burning data disc, let's you add 5 - 10MB extra to your disc. This feature was added to compensate for a large file at the end of your sessions that otherwise would have to be put on a separate disc." Making a music CD, one that will play in a CD player, is a different matter from making a data CD, and I take this FAQ to mean that Power2Go won't create a long music CD as you want. What you've just posted tells me something similar - the opposite of your interpretation: Power2Go can't read an extended play CD, let alone write to it. Check the program's user's guide, if one is provided, to find specific instructions.

By all means try to do it if you must, but from what I've seen so far online, Nero is the only software that people have used often and successfully to overburn a music CD. And you risk damaging your computer's CD-R drive.
Lance G. Hill
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John F
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Re: Question about CD blanks

Post by John F » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:04 pm

maestrob,

I've seen warnings about the risk of damaging the CD-R drive in several places, but no explanation of just what the problem might be. The drive is made to play and burn the standard 80-minute CDs, and if the extended play CD has tracks that are closer together, or that go further toward the center, or something like that, the arm that reads/burns them might possibly be affected. But if the particular drive is built to accommodate the longer CDs too, I guess there should be no problem.

I found this about how to set Roxio Creator 2010 Pro to overburn a CD-R:

Home options — Advanced panel

Use the Advanced panel to customize the following setting:

Overburn by (sectors): Overburn is a technique some CD recorder manufacturers use to squeeze a bit more data onto a CD-R disc. Set the desired amount to be overburned by typing the number into the Overburn by (sectors) text box.
http://forums.support.roxio.com/topic/6 ... -overburn/

I suggest you read the further comments on that page which suggest that overburn may no longer be supported by Roxio, and that it has been "the cause of many burner failures." If you want more info, it might be worth posting in the Roxio site's forums called Discussion Groups.
John Francis

maestrob
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Re: Question about CD blanks

Post by maestrob » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:19 pm

Thanks, John. Very informative!

At this point, I'm not looking to overburn 80 minute CDs, but rather to try out the 90 minute CDs you pointed to on amazon. I'll let you know what happens..... :wink:

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Re: Question about CD blanks

Post by Holden Fourth » Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:44 pm

Lance wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:01 am
I have a several CD players, but quite honestly, I never checked for a USB port having never really needed to use it for the purpose intended in copying. Can you tell me what's on your mind. Maybe I should investigate. And thank you!
Holden Fourth wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:02 pm
Does your CD player have a USB port?
Many of today’s CD players have a USB port. You can plug a thumb drive into the port and playmusic from it. My car CD player has this facility and its sure beats changing CDs all the time.

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Re: Question about CD blanks

Post by John F » Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:34 pm

maestrob wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:19 pm
At this point, I'm not looking to overburn 80 minute CDs, but rather to try out the 90 minute CDs you pointed to on amazon. 😉
Good luck with that!

I've found a very detailed explanation of overburning that looks authoritative, though you never know. It does not mention extended play CD-Rs at all. For that, as I've suggested, you could post a query on the Roxio site.

https://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/c ... size.shtml
John Francis

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