The operas of Handel

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Belle
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The operas of Handel

Post by Belle » Mon Oct 07, 2019 9:38 pm

These works are a never-ending source of pleasure. This morning I've been listening to "Serse" with Anne-Sophie von Otter. Other favourites are "Guilio Cesare" (probably THE favourite) with "Rodelinda", "Ariodante" and "Alcina" following thereafter. What a prolific composer and all of the music full of vigour, imagination, elegance and lyric invention.

What is absolutely not to love!!!?? (I wonder how hard this is for musicians to negotiate, given the speed and ornamentation?):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MyyEyUpgPw

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by Lance » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:38 pm

Of the almost 50 operas Handel wrote, I have some of them and enjoy them very much. Unlike a complete edition of HAYDN operas, as issued by Decca on 20 CDs), nobody near as I know, has come forth with a complete edition of Handel's operas. I would think, it would be a massive set. I don't even believe the Handel operas have all been recorded as yet. Probably some of them are even lost. Like you, I love Julius Caeser. And also Rodelinda, but probably best of all is Acis and Galatea, the latter which has that wonderful aria "O ruddier than the cherry," best sung by Owen Brannigan.
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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by diegobueno » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:14 am

The Glimmerglass Opera in Cooperstown, New York has been steadily producing Handel operas. I've seen three of them, Agrippina, Orlando and Acis and Galatea. I was pleasantly surprised at how well they work in the theater, even with all of the da capo arias and other baroque conventions. Orlando featured the great David Daniels in title role. Especially in Acis and Galatea, the oboe is featured to the extent that it almost seems like a very long oboe concerto. Next summer they'll be doing Rinaldo.

barney
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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by barney » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:46 am

Alas, the magic eludes me. I quickly find them tedious. Long da capo arias, and no forward momentum. I remember an Opera Australia Julius Caesar where each singer would sing the aria, turn to walk off stage, then wheel about as if struck by a new thought, and sing it again.
For me, baroque opera is perfectly designed for the highlights CD. :mrgreen: Even Emma Matthews "naked" (I'm sure she wore a bodysuit, appropriately) in a bath of asses' milk could not save it.
Yet I think Messiah one of the most sublime achievements of the human imagination, and am generally not hostile to other baroque music. So what am I missing?

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by maestrob » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:41 am

barney wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:46 am
Alas, the magic eludes me. I quickly find them tedious. Long da capo arias, and no forward momentum. I remember an Opera Australia Julius Caesar where each singer would sing the aria, turn to walk off stage, then wheel about as if struck by a new thought, and sing it again.
For me, baroque opera is perfectly designed for the highlights CD. :mrgreen: Even Emma Matthews "naked" (I'm sure she wore a bodysuit, appropriately) in a bath of asses' milk could not save it.
Yet I think Messiah one of the most sublime achievements of the human imagination, and am generally not hostile to other baroque music. So what am I missing?
To each his own, I guess. I find Handel's operatic music fascinating, particularly in the hands of great singers. In the 1980's we saw a production of Handel's Rinaldo at the MET with Marilyn Horne and Eva Podles, two magnificent mezzos for the price of one! That production hooked me on Handel's operatic oeuvre for life! Having sung Messiah nearly 50 times in Carnegie Hall and (now) David Geffen Hall, I agree with your assessment of that work of course, but don't lose heart about Handel's operas just yet.

The dacapo arias are sung with variations, of course, when sung correctly, and those ornaments can be awesome to behold when pouring forth from the right kind of throat. There's a recent British release called Handel's Queens that I'll review shortly, that you should hear. It's been produced by the London Early Opera, and features some very fine singing. I find when listening to early music groups that the "tang" of early instruments, when played with fervor, enhances my enjoyment. My suggestion to you, Barney, is to look to recordings by Bartoli and Fagioli: I think you'll find what you're looking for there.

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by barney » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:35 pm

Thanks Brian
I admire Bartoli immensely, and have very many of her CDs, from complete operas to her themed recitals, such as Sacrificium. I also heard her when she came to Melbourne a few years ago. Astounding flexibility and technique, great presence, but not actually a large voice.
Of course I won't give up on baroque opera; I just don't particularly seek it out compared with Mozart, Verdi, Wagner, Strauss, Puccini, Bizet, Britten etc And there's so much in what I just listed that I can't keep up with that.
When I hear ornamentation in a dacapo aria I am impressed by the technique, but perhaps I don't think enough about the musical aspect of what is happening.

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by barney » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:37 pm

PS - I think I was sent that Serse, and didn't get round to opening it. :(I will try to find it amid the piles on the desk, floor, around the turntable, beside the CD shelves etc.

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by Belle » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:06 pm

I long admired Marilyn Horne: what a voice and capacity for vocal gymnastics that woman had! And vocal gymnastics are part of Handelian opera; they were virtuosic display pieces and they are certainly that. I take your point, Barney, about the Da Capo aria; all well and good if you liked the piece from the start. If not, here we go again. The music is so utterly thrilling to me that I never tire of it, despite the tropes and conventions of 18th century opera not having really stood up in time against the more narrative driven 19th-plus century genre.

One of my fondest life memories was of being in Theater an der Wien, Concentus/Harnoncourt in the pit and Handel's "Rodelinda". I looked down at that orchestra from the balcony above and watched the extraordinary performance unfold. Modern dress; great set design and superlative playing from that simply wonderful period orchestra. Here is that production of 2011 (in 2 parts): it brings a tear to my eye watching it!! I ADORE every note of that music!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-UNDzMOgFY

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by John F » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:55 am

For me, many of the Handel operas have lyrical highlights, arias on a level of melodic invention that no other composer before Mozart could match. And there are a few that I'm happy to listen to all the way through, like "Acis and Galatea"with the marvelous "Love in her eyes sits playing" and the comical/characterful "O ruddier than the cherry." But I'm afraid host of them can't hold my interest through the long series of da capo arias. As vvehicles for the star singers they served their purpose, but most of us want something more than that nowadays.
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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by lennygoran » Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:20 am

diegobueno wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:14 am
Next summer they'll be doing Rinaldo.
I hope to be there for that and Wagner’s Die Feen (The Fairies). Regards, Len

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by barney » Thu Oct 10, 2019 4:24 pm

Belle wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:06 pm
I long admired Marilyn Horne: what a voice and capacity for vocal gymnastics that woman had! And vocal gymnastics are part of Handelian opera; they were virtuosic display pieces and they are certainly that. I take your point, Barney, about the Da Capo aria; all well and good if you liked the piece from the start. If not, here we go again. The music is so utterly thrilling to me that I never tire of it, despite the tropes and conventions of 18th century opera not having really stood up in time against the more narrative driven 19th-plus century genre.

One of my fondest life memories was of being in Theater an der Wien, Concentus/Harnoncourt in the pit and Handel's "Rodelinda". I looked down at that orchestra from the balcony above and watched the extraordinary performance unfold. Modern dress; great set design and superlative playing from that simply wonderful period orchestra. Here is that production of 2011 (in 2 parts): it brings a tear to my eye watching it!! I ADORE every note of that music!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-UNDzMOgFY
I wonder how much of it is because we sit there reverently and concentrate whereas 19th century audiences wandered around, chatted, and stopped only for the big numbers. Mind you, I don't want to change my own 19th century practice.
I wonder also whether there are any psychological insights? Perhaps you have an ordered mind, Sue, and mine is scattergun. But if that were so I wouldn't admire Bach as I do. Ah, the mystery of attraction!

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by Belle » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:26 pm

It's the sheer glory of the music.

I've just started reading about French baroque opera, "Aesthetics of Opera in the Ancien Regime, 1647-1785", Downing A. Thomas, 2002.

The music of the French baroque is so very different from that of Handel; more esoteric and elegant and, arguably, less accessible. That's the approach I'll take next year when I develop Baroque Musical Theatre: France. (That's why I'm reading the Thomas book.) I'll compare that in the following session some months later with the music of Handel.

Rameau couldn't be more removed from Handel, with its high-ambitus woodwinds and soprano lines which follow these - and courtly, elegant and controlled decorations. His operas were not really narrative in the sense we later came to understand that: very often tableaux and spectacles that did have story line as such, but they often subtley interrogated or commented on the mores of the court and the society!! Thomas says these operas (not just Rameau) feature loss and recovery as important thematics. But I'll know more after reading the book!

This is tremendously moving:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... QKhkVBUdZ8

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by lennygoran » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:34 am

Belle wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:26 pm
This is tremendously moving:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... QKhkVBUdZ8
Belle I enjoyed the music but there's no info on what piece is being played-do you know what it is. I guess the conductor is this person? Regards, Len

Franciscus ("Frans") Jozef Brüggen (30 October 1934 – 13 August 2014) was a Dutch conductor, recorder player and baroque flautist.

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by John F » Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:14 pm

From the YouTube comments, it's an entrée from Rameau's Les Boréades. Don't know it at all.

By far Handel's most popular music, and I mean really popular, is his orchestral works - the Water Music, the Royal Fireworks Music, the concerti grossi op. 6 and op. 3. His solo keyboard music is less well known generally, but who doesn't know his air and variations "The Harmonious Blacksmith"?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNzVz5byPqk

I've spoken again and again of Handel's extraordinary powers of melodic invention. He was also capable of music on the largest scale, as in the Royal Fireworks Music, here inj the sensational original scoring conducted by Charles Mackerras.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94WIJGJTJ60

There's nothing in Handel's operas, nothing that I've heard anyway, to match the sheer excitement of Handel's orchestral music in full cry. On the lyrical side, is there anything finer in the operas than this air from the Water Music? Not for me there isn't.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmyMx9U8vcE

I thought I was done, but not quite. The third movement of the concerto grosso op. 6 no. 12, is one of Handel's most beautiful inventions, and it receives a majestic performance from Serge Koussevitzky and the Boston Symphony Orchestra.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNtqqwNhEMQ
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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by Belle » Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:06 pm

lennygoran wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:34 am
Belle wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:26 pm
This is tremendously moving:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... QKhkVBUdZ8
Belle I enjoyed the music but there's no info on what piece is being played-do you know what it is. I guess the conductor is this person? Regards, Len

Franciscus ("Frans") Jozef Brüggen (30 October 1934 – 13 August 2014) was a Dutch conductor, recorder player and baroque flautist.
Yes, I'm pretty sure it's from Les Les Boréades. It was the last public performance by Frans Bruggen and occurred only a matter of weeks before he died. A wonderful musicjian altogether. (Gotta love the Netherlands!!)

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by Belle » Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:11 pm

John, I couldn't get some of those clips to play - one said "Video Unavailable". I loved your comment "in full cry" about Handel's music. For me, those operas do have that glorious orchestral quality. This is a favourite from the "Water Music" and I am thrilled by the tempo!! I don't think Handel's music can be easy to play at that speed when it has all the embellishments!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neMAm4Bjpx0

Handel is my top 5 of all time great composers!!

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by John F » Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:17 pm

Which clips wouldn't play? I can probably find substitutes that will.
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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by Belle » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:28 pm

John F wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:17 pm
Which clips wouldn't play? I can probably find substitutes that will.

The first one, the "Harmonious Blacksmith". The others worked OK this time after a stall (could have been my internet speed!).

I have Murray Perahia playing the "Harmonious Blacksmith" in this recording (also Scarlatti). He wraps these works of Handel in a somewhat romantic sound-world which I really enjoy. It isn't HIP but not everything has to be.

The melody lines in these works, with their twists and turns, are what you find in the operas - and some of our most superb singers have to negotiate the treacherous ornamentation, melismas and vocal gymnastics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQMlW0B3gD8

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by lennygoran » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:21 am

John F wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 1:14 pm
From the YouTube comments, it's an entrée from Rameau's Les Boréades. Don't know it at all.
Thanks for that info-I'd sure go see the opera if they ever did it around NYC but I want a full production-thanks for all the other recommendations! Regards, Len

"The first modern performance of the work was by the ORTF in 1964 on 16 September 1964 (celebrating the 200th anniversary of Rameau's death) at the Maison de la Radio in Paris, recorded for broadcast the following month; the cast included Christiane Eda-Pierre and Andre Mallabrera.[2] It owes its modern revival to the conductor John Eliot Gardiner, who gave a concert version of the piece (in which Trevor Pinnock played harpsichord continuo) at the Queen Elizabeth Hall, London, on 14 April 1975, for which he had prepared the orchestral material from the original manuscripts over the preceding year. In July 1982, Gardiner gave the first fully staged performance with Catherine Turocy, choreographer, and her New York Baroque Dance Company at the Aix-en-Provence Festival.[3] Since then, the opera's reputation and popularity have grown considerably. "

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by lennygoran » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:24 am

Belle wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:06 pm
lennygoran wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:34 am
(Gotta love the Netherlands!!)
We do-don't their flower bulbs! Regards, Len :D

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by John F » Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:11 am

Belle wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:28 pm
The melody lines in these works, with their twists and turns, are what you find in the operas
My point is that I don't find melody lines in the operas. Handel wrote the operas for the star singers of the day, and while I couldn't say exactly how this influenced the style of his many arias, I'm sure it must have. The instrumental works were under no such limitation and with no need to please the singers, I believe Handel composed them to please himself (and his royal patron). Of course it's all by the same composer, and you can recognize Handel's style (especially the harmony) from miles away.
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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by Belle » Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:31 pm

I do think Handel's operas have splendid melody lines; of course, they're never going to be of the type found in 19th century opera - but they are there nonetheless:

What is this if not a sublime melody? It has a through-composed quality despite essentially being a da capo aria: tender, poignant and lyrical at once. (I like Jaroussky's decorative treatments.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQm2C5UrERg

The performance practice of the day gave quite a lot of licence to performers with respect to embellishments. Perhaps it is this musical filigree which disguises the melody line for some people?

And then there's this from "Giulio Cesare". Surely these arias influenced Mozart!!! (This singer's decorations are perfection!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB6dK9PeF00

And what is the overture to "Alcina" if not right out of the "Water Music" sound world!? Particularly the minuet. (I was at this production in Vienna.) After the start go to 11:30.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VdHwrLgjxI

And from "Rinaldo". Superb:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-74WzKsFzI

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by maestrob » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:44 am

Thank you, Belle & JohnF for those examples. You've both proven the point that Handel was a great all-around composer to my satisfaction at least! :D

Seriously, though, I feel that a knowledge and appreciation of vocal technique and ornamentation adds to one's enjoyment of the operas, which are indeed rich in melody to my ears. "Ombra mai fu" is great music as we all know, especially when sung by Fagioli or, dare I mention, Domingo. A simple melody may be hard to find in Handel's operas, as it is in Prokofiev's music, but the music is great as we all know.

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by John F » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:08 pm

There are indeed some hit tunes in Handel's operas. "Ombra mai fu" is world famous, Polyphemus's "O ruddier than the cherry" is a hoot, and "Love in her eyes sits playing" (in Mozart's arrangement - woodwinds!) is a wonder.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6p6lVVViaU

But it's not typical, and the high points are too few and far between in Handel's very long operas. Actually, I've found Handel's oratorios musically more rewarding than the operas, and not just because they have choruses as the operas don't. "Messiah" is full of arias that might lead you to expect more of the same in the operas, but I rarely find them.
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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by Belle » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:07 pm

I absolutely love the foot-tapping up-tempo arias and musical interludes of Handel in those operas. And what always makes me smile is the final cadence with its two last notes after the concluding heavy beat: I'm assuming this is the cadence being divided because it's always a 1 and 2 rhythm. Not settling on a single chord as the cadence but dividing the chord up from, say, 5 - followed by the mediant then the tonic ? - all played in rapid succession to give the impression of a kind of musical after-effect/echo (if you understand what I mean). Or it may be a grace-note application and not an arpeggio. Perhaps it is the 5th of the tonic chord actually behaving like an accacciatura. But that's the kind of impression Handel gives with this little add-on. It's a quirk of his that I often notice when the music has real momentum. A particular kind of voice-leading which is a fingerprint of Handel. Anyway, I've never been able to work out exactly what it is because I don't have any scores. (You can hear it right at the end of each section in the aria I posted in this thread, sung by Ann-Sofie von Otter.)

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by barney » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:39 am

John F wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:08 pm
There are indeed some hit tunes in Handel's operas. "Ombra mai fu" is world famous, Polyphemus's "O ruddier than the cherry" is a hoot, and "Love in her eyes sits playing" (in Mozart's arrangement - woodwinds!) is a wonder.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6p6lVVViaU

But it's not typical, and the high points are too few and far between in Handel's very long operas. Actually, I've found Handel's oratorios musically more rewarding than the operas, and not just because they have choruses as the operas don't. "Messiah" is full of arias that might lead you to expect more of the same in the operas, but I rarely find them.
Thanks for this, John. What a fascinating hybrid! But a good part of the genius belongs to the later composer, it seems to me. As you say, the woodwind!

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by barney » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:41 am

While we are posting favourite Handel links, I've always considered this close to perfection:
Kathleen Battle and Wynton Marsalis in Let the Bright Seraphim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUOTq_x ... A&index=12

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by barney » Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:38 am

I don't know whether to blame Sue or John.
I was going to have an early night, but started listening to the links posted about 9pm. Now, via a huge round trip, it is 12.40, and I am still listening to music on YouTube. Right now, Bach's Toccata and Fugue. Via Handel, Mozart, George Formby (!!) and Grumiaux.

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by Belle » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:47 pm

barney wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:41 am
While we are posting favourite Handel links, I've always considered this close to perfection:
Kathleen Battle and Wynton Marsalis in Let the Bright Seraphim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUOTq_x ... A&index=12
I love Wynton Marsalis and heard him at the 1988 Adelaide Festival, playing jazz. And I'll tell you what - he's fabulously interesting when speaking about music, and highly intelligent.

In a couple of weeks our music group has the pleasure of a session being run by the Organist and Master of Choristers at Christchurch Cathedral in our city; he will analyse "The Messiah", which he's presently rehearsing. And he's the most wonderful man; in his late 30s, bright, energetic and a profound music-lover!! He has played the organ in Notre Dame!!

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by John F » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:06 am

I don't expect you'll be hearing any of Mozart's arramgement of "Messiah," which is just as remarkable as his "Acis and Galatea"or even more so. Hére's "Every valley shall be exalted," with a starring role for the bassoon.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXe10oY1vtA

And "The Trumpet Shall SOund" (and then some!)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kazgX60nBBs
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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by barney » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:33 am

Well that's fascinating, John. But, though I bow to no one in my admiration for Mozart, Handel definitely wins on comparison of The Trumpet Shall Sound.
How odd of Mozart to have it without a trumpet at all, divided between strings and horns. Loved the bass,though - fine singer.

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by John F » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:27 am

Ah, but there is a trumpet ("clarino") as required, doubling the violins, though it's rather buried in the strings by Rilling's balance and the church acoustic.
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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by Lance » Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:00 pm

Barney, I'm not familiar with the DGG/Decca item. Can you give me the catalogue number, please? I'm interested in that!
barney wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:39 am
John F wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:08 pm
There are indeed some hit tunes in Handel's operas. "Ombra mai fu" is world famous, Polyphemus's "O ruddier than the cherry" is a hoot, and "Love in her eyes sits playing" (in Mozart's arrangement - woodwinds!) is a wonder.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6p6lVVViaU

But it's not typical, and the high points are too few and far between in Handel's very long operas. Actually, I've found Handel's oratorios musically more rewarding than the operas, and not just because they have choruses as the operas don't. "Messiah" is full of arias that might lead you to expect more of the same in the operas, but I rarely find them.
Thanks for this, John. What a fascinating hybrid! But a good part of the genius belongs to the later composer, it seems to me. As you say, the woodwind!
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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by barney » Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:34 pm

Sorry Lance, I'm a little confused. Which DGG/Decca item? If I have it, I can give you the number.

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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by Lance » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:30 pm

It is the one pictured above stating "Handel: Acis and Galatea", a photo of a Decca/DGG album of Mozart's Complete Handel Arrangements. Now, because DGG and Decca are under the same umbrella they can issue material from both catalogues.
barney wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:34 pm
Sorry Lance, I'm a little confused. Which DGG/Decca item? If I have it, I can give you the number.
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
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When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
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barney
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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by barney » Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:58 am

Lance wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:30 pm
It is the one pictured above stating "Handel: Acis and Galatea", a photo of a Decca/DGG album of Mozart's Complete Handel Arrangements. Now, because DGG and Decca are under the same umbrella they can issue material from both catalogues.
barney wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:34 pm
Sorry Lance, I'm a little confused. Which DGG/Decca item? If I have it, I can give you the number.
JohnF posted that, Lance. Sorry. But I'm sure he can help. :D

John F
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Re: The operas of Handel

Post by John F » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:56 am

https://www.amazon.com/Mozart-225-Compl ... B06Y4JDNLN

Most of the recordings are by Christopher Hogwood and the Handel and Haydn Society of Boston - competent enough. But fortunately the "Messiah" is the original DG Archiv vrsion led by Charles Mackerras, a good deal more than competent.
John Francis

barney
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The operas of Handel

Post by barney » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:34 pm

I just realised, I do have those six CDs, because I have the Mozart 225 set. But I haven't played them yet.

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