Greatest chamber work

[barney]

Watching Now Hear This on Schubert, host Scott Yoo pronounced Schubert's double cello string quintet the greatest chamber work ever composed. It's a huge claim, but one I agree with in fact. (This claim is tempered by the fact that there are many works I think something close to that about while I am listening to them.) I haven't decided whether my coffin is to be carried out to the slow movement from that quintet or Beethoven's Emperor concerto.

I would never have dared open this subject while JohnF was with us, because its sheer fatuity would have infuriated him. And it is fatuous, because it is (within certain limits) almost entirely subjective and there is no one greatest, and there may be no appetite for such a discussion. But it's always interesting to hear people's views, so if anyone is open to engage on this again let's go for it.

[Rach3]

I defer to others here, but if I recall the physicist Albert Einstein had the slow mov. of Beethoven’s Op.135 Quartet played at Einstein’s funeral ?

Not “greatest” candidates perhaps , but a couple favs of mine are the Ravel Piano Trio and Brahms 3rd Piano Quartet,Op.60.

[Holden Fourth]

With the wide range of genres within the chamber music sphere, I'd say that John F is probably right about it being fatuous.

[barney]

Thanks Holden. Very encouraging - I won't try to dissuade you from sitting this one out. And if no one other than Steve is interested, that's entirely fine.

[barney]

I defer to others here, but if I recall the physicist Albert Einstein had the slow mov. of Beethoven’s Op.135 Quartet played at Einstein’s funeral ?

Not “greatest” candidates perhaps , but a couple favs of mine are the Ravel Piano Trio and Brahms 3rd Piano Quartet,Op.60.

That's precisely why I posted this - I love this response. I barely know the Brahms third piano quartet, and guess what has risen sharply up my listening priorities. I know the Ravel piano trio, but not especially well, so ditto. I'm already enriched.

[maestrob]

Hello Barney!

While I don't have an actual "greatest" chamber work in my mind available for instant discussion, there are certain movements of works that come easily to mind.

Rach3, I admire your selections already!

Barney, while the Schubert you mention may indeed be classed in my top 10, here are a few others that should, IMHO, not be neglected, not necessarily in order of importance:

1) The two string quartets by Debussy and Ravel

2) Beethoven's Op. 135 Quartet in F major, his Op. 18 #4, and the Op. 59, #3.

3) Ravel's Introduction and Allegro for Harp, Clarinet, Flute and String Quartet

4) Brahms Third Piano Quartet

5) Both of Brahms's String Sextets

6) Here's a dark horse: Elgar's late Piano Quartet. For some reason, I am deeply moved by the slow movement of this work when it's played well, and recommend it highly.

7) I'm also very fond of Poulenc's Violin Sonata and his Flute Sonata as well. Both are, to me, pinnacles of 20th Century French chamber music.

8. Certainly, the Shostakovich Quartet #8 belongs here, as does his Piano Trio.

That's enough for now, really! As others occur to me, I'll post them in this thread.

Really, like Holden, I cannot name a single greatest work, and I haven't even gotten to Mozart yet!

[lennygoran]

Really, like Holden, I cannot name a single greatest work, and I haven't even gotten to Mozart yet!

Brian I don't know most of those works-I'm tempted to create a Spotify playlist and listen to them all in the order you list. I'm not up to the Schubert single greatest yet and have never heard it. The creator of the show likes to use the term the greatest-for example for him the greatest composer of all time is Bach-Bach is the God-he of course acknowledges Mozart and Beethoven as being geniuses but Bach is God-still how could he forget Donizetti! Regards, Len [fleeing]

[maestrob]

Really, like Holden, I cannot name a single greatest work, and I haven't even gotten to Mozart yet!

Brian I don't know most of those works-I'm tempted to create a Spotify playlist and listen to them all in the order you list. I'm not up to the Schubert single greatest yet and have never heard it. The creator of the show likes to use the term the greatest-for example for him the greatest composer of all time is Bach-Bach is the God-he of course acknowledges Mozart and Beethoven as being geniuses but Bach is God-still how could he forget Donizetti! Regards, Len [fleeing]

Enjoy, Len!

[lennygoran]

Enjoy, Len!

Brian okay I made the playlist-I'll start listening as I work in the kitchen later. Regards, Len

[Rach3]

Enjoy, Len!

Great list, maestrob,thanks.Indeed, that Elgar Quartet is quite fine as are your Poulenc suggestions.To Poulenc list, I’d add his Oboe Sonata.

[maestrob]

Enjoy, Len!

Great list, maestrob,thanks.Indeed, that Elgar Quartet is quite fine as are your Poulenc suggestions.To Poulenc list, I’d add his Oboe Sonata.

Sure enough! I love Poulenc's Oboe sonata as well, as I do his Sextet for Piano & Winds. I just didn't want to overwhelm our readers.

[diegobueno]

I would never have dared open this subject while JohnF was with us,

That's true about a lot of subjects.
I think the Schubert C major Quintet makes the short list of greatest chamber works for a lot of people. It certainly makes mine. The Brahms Clarinet Quintet op. 115 is another frequent short list inhabitant.

It can't be helped. The perception of greatness is inherently subjective. In my view, no music is born great. It has to earn that status. It earns its status through the collective subjective judgments passed by listeners and performers over as wide a range as possible. It's not just sheer numbers that make a piece of music great, but the breadth and diversity of those numbers.

Music that only appeals to the least musically sophisticated is one level of appreciation; music that only appeals to the most musically sophisticated is another. I hold that the greatest music appeals over the whole spectrum of musical sophistication.

The other element is time. Some music is considered great for a while but then falls out of favor. Think of W.S. Gilbert, who has the Mikado sing about "Bach interwoven with Spohr and Beethoven". How many people today are going to put Spohr on the same level as the other two? So, I say the greatest music appeals a large number of people over the whole spectrum of musical sophistication over the longest period of time.

My formulation of greatness naturally puts old music at a great advantage over new music. Bach has been around much longer than Steve Reich, and so the sheen of greatness is highly polished. No composer living today can ever hope to shine as brightly, and this leads to the perception that current music just doesn't live up. "Why can't they write like that any more?" we lament. And yet, if any composer tried to emulate whatever "that" we set up as a standard, would they have any chance of achieving the same level of greatness? I say no, because they do not have the element of time in their favor.

The fact is that by definition, new music can never be great. There are no masterpieces in contemporary music, just potential (or not) masterpieces. I actually find that liberating. I can listen to new music without the burden of society's judgment, or without having to place it within a pre-determined historical timeline (as many contemporary music enthusiasts have an annoying tendency to do). I can listen to a new piece and either enjoy it or not enjoy it. Whether it's great or not will be for the future to decide, and I have the pleasure of being one of the first responders.

I see I've hijacked this thread and turned it into something about new music. Oops, sorry.

[maestrob]

Hah!

Not a problem for me, Mark!

In fact, since you are our contemporary music expert, I'd be very interested in your thoughts on what recent works you admire most, those that you think might eventually might be considered great chamber music for generations to come.

I know it's impossible to predict such things, but after some thought, perhaps you'd consider giving it a shot? Your taste has been good so far, and we've all benefitted greatly from hearing your many youtube examples!

[Lance]

I like Mark's/diegobueno's allusion to Schubert's String Quintet in C Major, for me, also, one of the greatest chamber works (without piano) I have ever heard [and, of course, there's much else]. And another work that looms large in the mind for me is Mendelssohn's Octet in E-flat Major, Op. 20, penned when the composer was a mere 16 years old in 1825 but substantially revised before its premiere performance in 1836. Only history will tell what new music being created today will be called the "greatest" music of our own time; we most likely won't be around to know that. Such is life.

[Holden Fourth]

For me, the Schubert Quintet is a great work and he wrote many others that I really like. Once I start listing my favourites from other composers I'll find it hard to stop. From LvB Violin sonatas, to Dvorak quartets and quintets, to the wonderful Hummel piano trios there is so much to enjoy.

However, there is one work I return to more than any other - the 'Arpegionne' and especially the Rostropovich/Britten recording.

[barney]

Hello Barney!

While I don't have an actual "greatest" chamber work in my mind available for instant discussion, there are certain movements of works that come easily to mind.

Rach3, I admire your selections already!

Barney, while the Schubert you mention may indeed be classed in my top 10, here are a few others that should, IMHO, not be neglected, not necessarily in order of importance:

1) The two string quartets by Debussy and Ravel

2) Beethoven's Op. 135 Quartet in F major, his Op. 18 #4, and the Op. 59, #3.

3) Ravel's Introduction and Allegro for Harp, Clarinet, Flute and String Quartet

4) Brahms Third Piano Quartet

5) Both of Brahms's String Sextets

6) Here's a dark horse: Elgar's late Piano Quartet. For some reason, I am deeply moved by the slow movement of this work when it's played well, and recommend it highly.

7) I'm also very fond of Poulenc's Violin Sonata and his Flute Sonata as well. Both are, to me, pinnacles of 20th Century French chamber music.

8. Certainly, the Shostakovich Quartet #8 belongs here, as does his Piano Trio.

That's enough for now, really! As others occur to me, I'll post them in this thread.

Really, like Holden, I cannot name a single greatest work, and I haven't even gotten to Mozart yet!

Great list, Brian. I'm not familiar with the Elgar, or Ravel's Introduction and Allegro. Totally agree about Shostakovich, not so sure about the Poulenc. I'll check whether I have them all.

[barney]

I would never have dared open this subject while JohnF was with us,

That's true about a lot of subjects.
I think the Schubert C major Quintet makes the short list of greatest chamber works for a lot of people. It certainly makes mine. The Brahms Clarinet Quintet op. 115 is another frequent short list inhabitant.

It can't be helped. The perception of greatness is inherently subjective. In my view, no music is born great. It has to earn that status. It earns its status through the collective subjective judgments passed by listeners and performers over as wide a range as possible. It's not just sheer numbers that make a piece of music great, but the breadth and diversity of those numbers.

Music that only appeals to the least musically sophisticated is one level of appreciation; music that only appeals to the most musically sophisticated is another. I hold that the greatest music appeals over the whole spectrum of musical sophistication.

The other element is time. Some music is considered great for a while but then falls out of favor. Think of W.S. Gilbert, who has the Mikado sing about "Bach interwoven with Spohr and Beethoven". How many people today are going to put Spohr on the same level as the other two? So, I say the greatest music appeals a large number of people over the whole spectrum of musical sophistication over the longest period of time.

My formulation of greatness naturally puts old music at a great advantage over new music. Bach has been around much longer than Steve Reich, and so the sheen of greatness is highly polished. No composer living today can ever hope to shine as brightly, and this leads to the perception that current music just doesn't live up. "Why can't they write like that any more?" we lament. And yet, if any composer tried to emulate whatever "that" we set up as a standard, would they have any chance of achieving the same level of greatness? I say no, because they do not have the element of time in their favor.

The fact is that by definition, new music can never be great. There are no masterpieces in contemporary music, just potential (or not) masterpieces. I actually find that liberating. I can listen to new music without the burden of society's judgment, or without having to place it within a pre-determined historical timeline (as many contemporary music enthusiasts have an annoying tendency to do). I can listen to a new piece and either enjoy it or not enjoy it. Whether it's great or not will be for the future to decide, and I have the pleasure of being one of the first responders.

I see I've hijacked this thread and turned it into something about new music. Oops, sorry.

You raise an important point, which is generally true, but not totally. I think some works are understood to be masterpieces very quickly. Some Britten works - Peter Grimes, say, or the Serenade for tenor and horn - were accepted as such immediately and remain so today. Rachmaninov's second and third piano concertos. Stravinsky's Rite of Spring. While some immensely popular at the time fade quickly into obscurity. It's the same with pop, is it not? But of course you are right that time is the truest test, and it's true that this takes time.

[barney]

For me, the Schubert Quintet is a great work and he wrote many others that I really like. Once I start listing my favourites from other composers I'll find it hard to stop. From LvB Violin sonatas, to Dvorak quartets and quintets, to the wonderful Hummel piano trios there is so much to enjoy.

However, there is one work I return to more than any other - the 'Arpegionne' and especially the Rostropovich/Britten recording.

I find that very interesting. I greatly enjoy the Arpeggione, though I don't think I've actually heard it on an arpeggione. Just checked my catalogue. I do have one version for arpeggione, but it came in a 50-CD set, and I don't think I've listened to that recording. I have six cello versions, including the Rostropovich that is your benchmark and which I also love, and two viola versions.
If I were to rank Schubert's chamber music according to the pleasure the works give me I would highlight - and ranking is the wrong word because these are in no particular order - the string quintet, the Trout quintet, the two piano trios, the G major string quartet, Death and the Maiden, the Octet, some of the four-hand piano music, and the Notturno trio would have to be there.
Len, don't say you don't know these! That would be most remiss. But, as an opera lover, you will be delighted to know that Victorian Opera is performing his Friends of Salamanca in November. It will be available on-demand.

[lennygoran]

I think the Schubert C major Quintet makes the short list of greatest chamber works for a lot of people. It certainly makes mine.

Between that show on TV Now Hear This and Barney opening this new thread add me to the list for the Schubert work-first time listening to it and it was stirring! I only got to the first part of the Ravel off of the Spotify playlist I made after the Schubert-based on the suggestions made I'll be listening to that playlist for a long time-now new suggestions have come up-oy! Regards, Len

[lennygoran]

I greatly enjoy the Arpeggione...If I were to rank Schubert's chamber music according to the pleasure the works give me I would highlight - and ranking is the wrong word because these are in no particular order - the string quintet, the Trout quintet, the two piano trios, the G major string quartet, Death and the Maiden, the Octet, some of the four-hand piano music, and the Notturno trio would have to be there.Len, don't say you don't know these! That would be most remiss. But, as an opera lover, you will be delighted to know that Victorian Opera is performing his Friends of Salamanca in November. It will be available on-demand.

Barney first on this Arpeggione-never heard of it and looked it up-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arpeggione_Sonata.
On the Trout when I spoke to Sue about your favorite she immediately wanted to know why that one didn't come up-I know it, love and play often the octet, know Death and the Maiden, I'm remiss on the Notturno and could you say some more on Friends of Salamanca . Okay I decided to look up the Notturno-you must be talking about Chopin? Regards, Len
[/quote]

[diegobueno]

You raise an important point, which is generally true, but not totally. I think some works are understood to be masterpieces very quickly. Some Britten works - Peter Grimes, say, or the Serenade for tenor and horn - were accepted as such immediately and remain so today. Rachmaninov's second and third piano concertos. Stravinsky's Rite of Spring. While some immensely popular at the time fade quickly into obscurity. It's the same with pop, is it not? But of course you are right that time is the truest test, and it's true that this takes time.

I'm all in favor of pieces being accepted as masterworks immediately, and I'd like to see more of it. My point is that music is never born great. It achieves that status when people, and a wide range of people, declare it to be great. The width of range is important, and its dimensions are measured in depth of musical experience and time, and probably some other factors like geography and culture, which I haven't considered. It's a collective decision, a popularity contest if you will, but not in terms of sheer numbers but of breadth of distribution of those numbers.

Also, life is complicated, and at some point models such as I have been trying to describe break down and are shown to be flawed.

[barney]

I greatly enjoy the Arpeggione...If I were to rank Schubert's chamber music according to the pleasure the works give me I would highlight - and ranking is the wrong word because these are in no particular order - the string quintet, the Trout quintet, the two piano trios, the G major string quartet, Death and the Maiden, the Octet, some of the four-hand piano music, and the Notturno trio would have to be there.Len, don't say you don't know these! That would be most remiss. But, as an opera lover, you will be delighted to know that Victorian Opera is performing his Friends of Salamanca in November. It will be available on-demand.

Barney first on this Arpeggione-never heard of it and looked it up-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arpeggione_Sonata.
On the Trout when I spoke to Sue about your favorite she immediately wanted to know why that one didn't come up-I know it, love and play often the octet, know Death and the Maiden, I'm remiss on the Notturno and could you say some more on Friends of Salamanca . Okay I decided to look up the Notturno-you must be talking about Chopin? Regards, Len

[/quote]
The Trout was there, Len. Just after the string quintet! The Notturno is an exceedingly beautiful piano trio by Schubert. Chopin wrote nocturnes, also exceedingly lovely. Try the Schubert here - I'm confident you'll love it.It's under 10 minutes, very simple.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FVzhHtCwY4

I'll say more about the opera later.

[lennygoran]

The Trout was there, Len. Just after the string quintet! The Notturno is an exceedingly beautiful piano trio by Schubert. Chopin wrote nocturnes, also exceedingly lovely. Try the Schubert here - I'm confident you'll love it.It's under 10 minutes, very simple.

I'll say more about the opera later.

Barney yes it's nice-I'm adding it to the playlist. BTW I told Sue you thanked her for making you aware of the Trout-she was surprised you never heard of it. Regards, Len

[barney]

The Trout was there, Len. Just after the string quintet! The Notturno is an exceedingly beautiful piano trio by Schubert. Chopin wrote nocturnes, also exceedingly lovely. Try the Schubert here - I'm confident you'll love it.It's under 10 minutes, very simple.

I'll say more about the opera later.

Barney yes it's nice-I'm adding it to the playlist. BTW I told Sue you thanked her for making you aware of the Trout-she was surprised you never heard of it. Regards, Len

We can always learn from you and Sue, Len. Have you ever seen (available on YT) the marvellous performance of the Trout by Barenboim, du Pre, Perlman etc in whicvh they clown around and swap instruments? Good fun.

[lennygoran]

Have you ever seen (available on YT) the marvellous performance of the Trout by Barenboim, du Pre, Perlman etc in whicvh they clown around and swap instruments? Good fun.

Barney thanks-first I found this one.
https://www.thestrad.com/video/the-trou ... 06.article

Then I found this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFw-zDkD3Gs

And this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8fkyI5dZuE

Regards, Len

[barney]

Good spotting Len. The middle one, Medici, has the clip I was thinking of, though my memory is there is an hour-long documentary somewhere which has more of their clowning and then the serious performance.
And of course you also found the variations movement, which is definitely worth seeing.

[slofstra]

Drats, I just wrote 2-300 words then accidentally hit exit.

Here goes again.
I submit that 'great' is a different qualification from 'best' and I accept diegobuono's description that a great piece must stand the test of time and have a degree of broad audience acceptance. A 'great' piece should also be ambitious, probably longer, and both rewarding and demanding of listener and performer.
Beethoven's 9th is, no doubt, his greatest symphony. But for his best you could argue for the Eroica, Pastorale, the 5th or even the 7th. 'Best' allows for greater subjectivity.
From the comments above, the following resonated with me as great pieces and ones I also like a great deal.
1. the Mendelssohn Octet.
2. the Brahms clarinet quintet, op. 115.
3. the Schubert late quintets, especially 'Death and the Maiden'.
Then a few more that I love, but I may not be on safe ground for general acceptance.
4. the Brahms opus 25, is possibly the first quartet I ever heard, and I've loved it from the get-go.
5. Vaughan Williams' Flos Campi.
6. John Adams' Short Ride in a fast machine. Okay, it's orchestral, but I don't think you need a large orchestra, plus it's not that long.
Recently, I've played the Elgar opus 82, which is gorgeous. It's a violin sonata, but there is a piano ... so is that chamber music, or solo instrument?
7. the Brandenburgs. Again, not a full orchestra. I've played them many, many times.
8. Rachmaninov's Suites for 2 pianos. Just recently played a recording with Previn and Ashkenazy, and the performance was exemplary. Not something I've played for very long, but it has to be on the list.

[barney]

Thanks Henry. A violin sonata with piano is definitely chamber. And again, some works with which I am quite unfamiliar - Flos Campi, Rachmaninov suites for two pianos (a piano sonata with another piano? ) Agree about the Brahms clarinet quintet.
More to go on the list.

[maestrob]

Thanks Henry. A violin sonata with piano is definitely chamber. And again, some works with which I am quite unfamiliar - Flos Campi, Rachmaninov suites for two pianos (a piano sonata with another piano? ) Agree about the Brahms clarinet quintet.
More to go on the list.

By thinking out of the box, Henry has introduced one of my favorite works here. Rachmaninoff actually wrote TWO suites for two pianos. Both are well worth your while, but the second is a true masterpiece, and I'm in awe of the recording (originally for the Phillips label) with Martha Argerich and Nelson Freire, which was a breakthrough moment for Freire, who, up to then, had seemed rather ordinary to me. He was obviously inspired by working with Argerich for the first time. The recording is so crystal-clear that you can occasionally hear Argerich's fingernails on the keyboard if you listen through headphones!

Here they are performing the Suite #2 in concert:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYLasmJdeEg

And here's the cover of the original Phillips CD, which also included a four-hand arrangement of Ravel's La Valse and a fascinating piece by Lutoslawski. In America, the Rachmaninoff can be streamed on amazon, along with her famous recording of his Third Concerto:

[Rach3]

6) Here's a dark horse: Elgar's late Piano Quartet. For some reason, I am deeply moved by the slow movement of this work when it's played well, and recommend it highly.

And another Elgar, his wonderful Piano Quintet ( 1918-19 ) played live in London March 11 by the formidable Nash Ensemble:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000t353

Stephanie Gonley (violin), Jonathan Stone (violin) , Lawrence Power (viola),Adrian Brendel (cello), Alasdair Beatson (piano).The cellist is pianist Alfred Brendel’s son.

[maestrob]

6) Here's a dark horse: Elgar's late Piano Quartet. For some reason, I am deeply moved by the slow movement of this work when it's played well, and recommend it highly.

And another Elgar, his wonderful Piano Quintet ( 1918-19 ) played live in London March 11 by the formidable Nash Ensemble:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000t353

Stephanie Gonley (violin), Jonathan Stone (violin) , Lawrence Power (viola),Adrian Brendel (cello), Alasdair Beatson (piano).The cellist is pianist Alfred Brendel’s son.

Good morning, Rach3!

I have the recordings of Beethoven's Cello Sonatas that Adrian Brendel made with his father on the Phillips label. He's very expressive and has a warm tone, so I will be looking forward to hearing this. Many thanks!

[barney]

Ditto, both times - I have the Brendel, and look forward to hearing this.

[maestrob]

6) Here's a dark horse: Elgar's late Piano Quartet. For some reason, I am deeply moved by the slow movement of this work when it's played well, and recommend it highly.

And another Elgar, his wonderful Piano Quintet ( 1918-19 ) played live in London March 11 by the formidable Nash Ensemble:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000t353

Stephanie Gonley (violin), Jonathan Stone (violin) , Lawrence Power (viola),Adrian Brendel (cello), Alasdair Beatson (piano).The cellist is pianist Alfred Brendel’s son.

Heard this yesterday and enjoyed the concert. Well done, and thanks!

The complete works for cello and piano by Beethoven with Alfred and Adrian Brendel are available separately on CD and available for streaming on Amazon, for those interested:

[maestrob]

One of my absolute favorite chamber pieces that I neglected to put on my list above is Stravinsky's 1924 "Octet." He revised it for performance in 1952, and recorded it for Columbia in fine monaural modern sound with players from the Cleveland Orchestra in 1955 for Columbia records, an LP that also featured a suite from L'Histoire du Soldat that has been a favorite listen for me since my teenage years.

Neeme Jarvi made this marvelous CD about thirty years ago, which can be streamed on amazon today for those curious to hear this marvelous, jaunty and uplifting work.

[slofstra]

I'm quite fond of 'The Soldier's Tale'. Does that one count?

[diegobueno]

I'm quite fond of 'The Soldier's Tale'. Does that one count?

The suite counts as chamber music, and that's how it's usually performed. It has so many "all time great clarinet licks". I've had the pleasure of performing L'histoire in a staged performance, and I've played the Octet and the Septet of 1954. Great stuff, all of it.

[barney]

Two more great contributions. I also particularly love the Soldier's Tale, its wit, its spiky rhythms, constant and often subtle changes. It has benefitted from many great recordings.
Brian I know the Octet but haven't played it for years. Add it to the pile.

[maestrob]

I'm quite fond of 'The Soldier's Tale'. Does that one count?

Like Mark, I say the suite certainly does, but the complete work with spoken dialogue is a bit more than just chamber music, also being a stage work.

I've got several versions of the complete work, which I studied in conducting classes at Juilliard, but when I was in high school, Stokowski made a much-publicized twin LP set for Vanguard, the first recording made in the studio with Dolby A noise reduction. The two discs were made with English narration or French, so you could hear which version you preferred. (Of course I preferred the French!) Both discs featured the same all-star cast, including Madeleine Milhaud, Jean-Pierre Aumont as the Soldier, and Martial Singher, whose conductor son served as a judge in my competition. Both versions were issued briefly on CD decades ago, and now used copies can be found on amazon here for $9.99. Priceless!

[Seán]

I would never have dared open this subject while JohnF was with us, because its sheer fatuity would have infuriated him.

Yes indeed and JohnF was one of the catalysts for my long sabbatical away from CMG. Imprecision is now tolerated.

Anyway, I will not for one minute argue that any or all of the pieces on my list are the best, but they do rank among my favourites, so in no particular order:

1. Wolfgang Mozart K563 Divertimento for String Trio.
Surely this gorgeous work must be close to the top of member's list

2. Joseph's Haydn's Trios No. 32 in A major, Hoboken XV:18
I think that's the one I must check, they are all lovely.

3. Ludwig van Beethoven String Quartet Op. 59. No. 1
But only if I have to pick just one. I shouldn't be greedy.

4. Ludwig van Beethoven Violin Sonata in D major Opus 12 No. 1
I have Arthur Grumiaux and Clara Haskil to blame for getting me hooked on his first sonata.

5. Franz Berwald Quartet in E flat major for piano and wind
I love Berwald's music.

6. Johannes Brahms. Piano Quintet in F minor Opus 34
I have our one time CMG member and dear friend, Jared, to thank for my loving this piece. I was struggling with Brahms so he sent me a copy of the quintet and I was instantly hooked.

7. Wolfgang Mozart. (again). Sonata in C Major KV 303
On hearing Rachel Podger and Gary Cooper play this on CD I loved it.
I chose this over one or more of Mozart's quintets but tomorrow I might feel differently

8. Franz Schubert. Octet in F Major
There is so much to love in Schubert's chamber music that it is very difficult to pick out an outstanding work, well this is up there with the best of them.

9. Franz Schubert Piano Quintet A major Trout
This is a magnificent work anyone I have ever played it for liked it

10. Franz Schubert. Piano Quartet No 14 in D minor
This is my favourite string quartet bar none. It is sublime, the Andante never fails to move me, some times to tears (Quartetto Italiano). It is a wonderful, beautifully balanced work.
Everyone should listen to it performed either live or on LP/CD at least once in their lifetime, it deserves to be heard and adored.


After all that? K563 is my favourite.

[maestrob]

I would never have dared open this subject while JohnF was with us, because its sheer fatuity would have infuriated him.

Yes indeed and JohnF was one of the catalysts for my long sabbatical away from CMG. Imprecision is now tolerated.

Anyway, I will not for one minute argue that any or all of the pieces on my list are the best, but they do rank among my favourites, so in no particular order:

1. Wolfgang Mozart K563 Divertimento for String Trio.
Surely this gorgeous work must be close to the top of member's list

2. Joseph's Haydn's Trios No. 32 in A major, Hoboken XV:18
I think that's the one I must check, they are all lovely.

3. Ludwig van Beethoven String Quartet Op. 59. No. 1
But only if I have to pick just one. I shouldn't be greedy.

4. Ludwig van Beethoven Violin Sonata in D major Opus 12 No. 1
I have Arthur Grumiaux and Clara Haskil to blame for getting me hooked on his first sonata.

5. Franz Berwald Quartet in E flat major for piano and wind
I love Berwald's music.

6. Johannes Brahms. Piano Quintet in F minor Opus 34
I have our one time CMG member and dear friend, Jared, to thank for my loving this piece. I was struggling with Brahms so he sent me a copy of the quintet and I was instantly hooked.

7. Wolfgang Mozart. (again). Sonata in C Major KV 303
On hearing Rachel Podger and Gary Cooper play this on CD I loved it.
I chose this over one or more of Mozart's quintets but tomorrow I might feel differently

8. Franz Schubert. Octet in F Major
There is so much to love in Schubert's chamber music that it is very difficult to pick out an outstanding work, well this is up there with the best of them.

9. Franz Schubert Piano Quintet A major Trout
This is a magnificent work anyone I have ever played it for liked it

10. Franz Schubert. Piano Quartet No 14 in D minor
This is my favourite string quartet bar none. It is sublime, the Andante never fails to move me, some times to tears (Quartetto Italiano). It is a wonderful, beautifully balanced work.
Everyone should listen to it performed either live or on LP/CD at least once in their lifetime, it deserves to be heard and adored.


After all that? K563 is my favourite.

Thank you, Sean, for that list of excellent choices. While I would not rank Berwald as among my own favorite composers, I do have his symphonies and listen to them regularly. I will try out the Quartet for Piano & Winds shortly.

Your Mozart (and Haydn) choices are all pieces that I love. I never got around to adding Mozart to the mix because, frankly, I could not find a work that I could name as a favorite, since everything he wrote is of such high quality, even the flute quartets written for the amateur Ferdinand De Jean. The Clarinet Quintet should, I think, be mentioned here as well, especially in the magical recording by Martin Frost pictured below:

[barney]

I would never have dared open this subject while JohnF was with us, because its sheer fatuity would have infuriated him.

Yes indeed and JohnF was one of the catalysts for my long sabbatical away from CMG. Imprecision is now tolerated.

Anyway, I will not for one minute argue that any or all of the pieces on my list are the best, but they do rank among my favourites, so in no particular order:

1. Wolfgang Mozart K563 Divertimento for String Trio.
Surely this gorgeous work must be close to the top of member's list

2. Joseph's Haydn's Trios No. 32 in A major, Hoboken XV:18
I think that's the one I must check, they are all lovely.

3. Ludwig van Beethoven String Quartet Op. 59. No. 1
But only if I have to pick just one. I shouldn't be greedy.

4. Ludwig van Beethoven Violin Sonata in D major Opus 12 No. 1
I have Arthur Grumiaux and Clara Haskil to blame for getting me hooked on his first sonata.

5. Franz Berwald Quartet in E flat major for piano and wind
I love Berwald's music.

6. Johannes Brahms. Piano Quintet in F minor Opus 34
I have our one time CMG member and dear friend, Jared, to thank for my loving this piece. I was struggling with Brahms so he sent me a copy of the quintet and I was instantly hooked.

7. Wolfgang Mozart. (again). Sonata in C Major KV 303
On hearing Rachel Podger and Gary Cooper play this on CD I loved it.
I chose this over one or more of Mozart's quintets but tomorrow I might feel differently

8. Franz Schubert. Octet in F Major
There is so much to love in Schubert's chamber music that it is very difficult to pick out an outstanding work, well this is up there with the best of them.

9. Franz Schubert Piano Quintet A major Trout
This is a magnificent work anyone I have ever played it for liked it

10. Franz Schubert. Piano Quartet No 14 in D minor
This is my favourite string quartet bar none. It is sublime, the Andante never fails to move me, some times to tears (Quartetto Italiano). It is a wonderful, beautifully balanced work.
Everyone should listen to it performed either live or on LP/CD at least once in their lifetime, it deserves to be heard and adored.


After all that? K563 is my favourite.

An excellent list, thanks. Yes both the Mozart clarinet quintet and K563 trio belong at the pinnacle of chamber music undoubtedly. I love the string quintets (Grumiaux) and the violin sonatas (again, like you, Grumiaux and Haskil my favourite, though there are dozens of superb recordings). Also some marvellous four-hand piano music.

A former Australian Prime Minister, Gough Whitlam, famed for his self-confidence (even arrogance) was once asked which of his speeches he wishes included in an anthology of greatest parliamentary speeches. "Oh, any will do," he said. I feel like that about both Mozart and Schubert.