My Favourite Waldstein

[Holden Fourth]

Brian and Rach 3 have been posting concerts and performances most of this year and I've really enjoyed them. I suspect that they've posted them because they think they are quite outstanding and I value their judgement. Please keep it up guys. While I may not respond to your posts, understand that i always listen to them.

So, I'll start contributing myself and am posting a recording of one of my favourite LvB sonatas. It's a piece I decided to learn at quite an early age and while most of it is not tremendously difficult, sections of the presto in the last movement (including the famous glissando) really challenged me. I have a couple of recordings of this work that I think are top notch. They include Dubravka Tomsic, and the legendary Solomon. But the one that stands out for me was recorded only nine months after I was born. It never fails to excite and inspire me. I have the physical recording but the YT clip does it justice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PfMOysPxNE

[Rach3]

You are very welcome, but I want avoid posting too much,as there are others here besides me.

I have not heard the 3 "Waldstein" you mention, but will.Thanks for the tip.

Fww,here are 3 "Waldstein" in my collection I do enjoy; have others,but these stand out:

Gary Graffman originally a Columbia studio lp I have:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Hdb57P ... gYAbv7qU78

Josef Hoffman on a Marston Records cd, live , and controversial:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVcfTzw9BRo

Paul Jacobs,live, on an Arbiter Records cd I could not find at YT:

https://arbiterrecords.org/catalog/paul ... n-recital/

I also think Arthur Schnabel does very well.

[maestrob]

Yes, Ric, you're very welcome, and please continue to post your favorites, as I value your judgement. I'll listen later on today, of course.

I'm rather taken by Gilels, Martin Roscoe and of course Levit at the moment.

Here's Gilels:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJZuzRd5_0A

[Belle]

For me, Beethoven's "Waldstein" is a hard sell. It's not one of my favourites in a desert island body of work. I have Kovacevich and Gilels playing this work, but I think I prefer Levit's as his had a 'narrative' element to it which drew me in and away from the purely cerebral quality of that work (if that makes any sense).

[cliftwood]

Ric..

I was only 14 years old when Rudolf Serkin assigned the Waldstein to me.It was one of his favorites and I agree he played it exceptionally.

I always thought that Giesiking's recording was the most perfect performance of the Waldstein and I still think so, after all these years.

H ave a good musical day.


cliftwood

[Lance]

Beethoven's" "Waldstein," Piano Sonata #21 in C Major, Op. 53. How can one possibly select one recording of a work of this magnitude? To make things short and immediate here, if I had to take just one to take to the desert island, I would probably take the one by Solomon on EMI/Warner and Testament, and might sneak along Schnabel. In my mind's ears, I think Beethoven himself would probably select either of these. Without wishing to sound out of mind (but probably am!), let me mention the versions I have, in many cases several performances by the same pianist, studio and/or live. Suffice to say I just list the names of the pianists, not the CD labels:

Gary Graffman, Rudolf Serkin, Daniel Sarvano, Radu Lupu, Friedrich Gulda, Wilhelm Backhaus, Nelson Freire, Eduardo Del Pueyo, Emil Gilels, Andor Foldes, Stanislaw Bunin, Yves Nat, Lili Kraus, Annie Fischer, Artur Schnabel, Nicholas Angelich, Claudio Arrau, Byron Janis, Emanuel Ax, Vladimir Horowitz, Barry Douglas, Artur Rubinstein, Walter Gieseking, Solomon, Benno Moiseiwitsch, Mikhail Pletnev, Wilhelm Kempff, Stephen Kovacevich, Alfred Brendel, Guiomar Novaes, Elly Ney, Harris Goldsmith, Conrad Tao, Eugene Istomin, Inger Södergren, Ernst Levy, Frederic Lamond, Christina Ortiz, Maria Grinberg, Fazil Say, Tatiana Nikolayeva, Boris Giltburg, Teresa Carreno, Dubravka Tomsic, Oxana Yablonskaya, and Bruce Hungerford. There are probably a few more I didn't catch immediately. Some of these are from complete sets of the 32, such as the mono and stereo versions from Kempff (I prefer the mono), Kovacevich, Backhaus, Schnabel, Arrau, Brendel (both Vox and the two Philips sets now on Decca), Maria Grinberg, and Nikolayeva (Olympia/Melodiya). So that's already too many Waldstein's for one music lover! Someone mentioned Dubravka Tomsic ... a very fine artist, approved by Rubinstein! I don't know why she hasn't recorded more.

The ones you don't see include Pollini, Barenboim, Paul Lewis, Levit, and quite a few other important pianists. Why? I don't know - I guess not inspired after all the others though Levit may be a possibility at some point.

[Holden Fourth]

So much extra to listen to. At the moment I'm listening to Harris' recommendation of Gieseking from EMI which is 1951. Is this the one you meant?

[Lance]

You gotta be kidding! We love your posts ... you give many great ideas for listening. So, keep up the good work. That's why CMG exists. We are one of the few places left where we can talk about our love of music! So, don't avoid us, please.

You are very welcome, but I want avoid posting too much,as there are others here besides me.

[Lance]

I'm sure the EMI 1951 recording was the one Harris was referring to. There was, however, another recording in an excellent 7-CD box set on Tahra [394-400] that contains Gieseking's apparently live 1949 recordings. The only ones he didn't record at that time were numbers 4, 5, 7, 20 and 22.

So much extra to listen to. At the moment I'm listening to Harris' recommendation of Gieseking from EMI which is 1951. Is this the one you meant?

[Donald Isler]

Since I don't think anyone else has mentioned it, I will mention the Hungerford recording. It may not be to everyone's taste, as a friend described the first movement as a "rollercoaster ride" but it's exciting as heck!

[cliftwood]

Ric and Lance ..

It is the 1951 recording..

Not my favorite pianist but in the case of this one, his Waldstein always was special.

[CharmNewton]

Ric and Lance ..

It is the 1951 recording..

Not my favorite pianist but in the case of this one, his Waldstein always was special.

Gieseking also recorded both the Waldstein and the Appassionata for American Columbia in 1939. They were long available on vinyl on Columbia's Odyssey label in the U.S., but i don't recall seeing them on CD. It would be great if Sony re-issued his New York recordings which were made over seven sessions during a U.S. tour.

John

[Holden Fourth]

I'm sure the EMI 1951 recording was the one Harris was referring to. There was, however, another recording in an excellent 7-CD box set on Tahra [394-400] that contains Gieseking's apparently live 1949 recordings. The only ones he didn't record at that time were numbers 4, 5, 7, 20 and 22.

So much extra to listen to. At the moment I'm listening to Harris' recommendation of Gieseking from EMI which is 1951. Is this the one you meant?

The 1949 is also on YT and I think I prefer it to the '51

[Lance]

John, you piqued my curiosity about the American Columbia recordings from 1939. In looking over the Gieseking discography, I see an August 1938 recording of the Waldstein recorded in Berlin and issued on American Columbia LP ML 4474 that also appeared in a Philips 2-CD set, [456 790] (Great Pianists Series). That Columbia LP ML 4474 also carried the Appassionata sonata, recorded in NYC in February 1939, which also appeared on the Philips CD set [456 790]. In that sense, ML 4474 may have both performances from different venues. The June 1951 EMI recording of the Appassionata was recorded in Zürich and was issued on Columbia Odyssey LP 32 16 0314. I wonder why British Columbia would have American Columbia bring forth that 1951 Appassionata performance and pairing it with the 1938 recording of the Waldstein? I do realize that companies do interchange or license material to competing companies on occasion. All this could be wrong, of course, but based on what I'm reading, it looks valid.

Also, Warner issued all of Gieseking's British Columbia recordings in that marvelous 48 CD set [24559] of Gieseking's recordings from 1923 to 1956, but I have not looked at that immense set to determine if, somehow, both of these recordings are within that set [I have misplaced that set!]. Additionally, do you know what other repertoire came out of the alleged 1939 American Columbia recordings over seven sessions?

Near as I know, I have everything Gieseking recorded for EMI/Warner, DGG, Philips, Testament, Andante, Andromeda, Appian/APR, Arbiter, Archipel, Archive Documents, Arkadia, Audiophile Classics (w/Mengelberg), Bayer, BBC Legends, BBC Vintage, Bianco e Nero, Dante, Forlane, King, Masters of the Piano (Allegro), Medici Arts, Music & Arts, Naxos Historical, Pearl, Piano Library, Price-Less, Q Disc, Radio Years, Scribendum, Seven Seas, SWR Music, Tahra, Urania and VAI. Naturally, a lot of duplication with some better remastering, and some of those labels have Gieseking appearing once or twice. But I do like to have the actual facts behind the recordings and a lot of water has gone over the dam since dear Herr Gieseking departed.

So, if you can give further thought to the beginning part of the Gieseking Waldstein dilemma, it is most appreciated!

Gieseking also recorded both the Waldstein and the Appassionata for American Columbia in 1939. They were long available on vinyl on Columbia's Odyssey label in the U.S., but i don't recall seeing them on CD. It would be great if Sony re-issued his New York recordings which were made over seven sessions during a U.S. tour.
John

[Holden Fourth]

Since I don't think anyone else has mentioned it, I will mention the Hungerford recording. It may not be to everyone's taste, as a friend described the first movement as a "rollercoaster ride" but it's exciting as heck!

Yes! And what was particularly noteworthy is what he did with the pedalling in the Rondo. And as you indicated Donald, that first movement has to keep driving forward with the odd pause at the top of the ride before plunging recklessly down the slope.

[Rach3]

But the one that stands out for me was recorded only nine months after I was born. It never fails to excite and inspire me. I have the physical recording but the YT clip does it justice.

Thanks again for the tip, my first hearing today. Pity the YT sound not the best, but Serkin's reading is great, one of the best I've heard, especially the care and attention he gives the slow mov. many tend to gloss over, the wonderful transition to the final mov., and the "ruminative" moments in the final mov. , along with the vigor of both first and final movs.

Do also try to hear Paul Jacobs on Arbiter,kindred spirit to Serkin here.

[Lance]

To: CharmNewton/John
John, regarding my post above about the Waldstein and Gieseking's recordings, I found the 48-CD Warner/EMI set ... it was right in front of me and I didn't see it! So, I checked the two CDs that contain the pianist's Waldstein:

a) Recorded August 11th, 1939 in Berlin, Germany
b) Recorded June 17th, 1951 in Zürich, Switzerland

I still cannot find anywhere any mention of a New York recording of the Waldstein that was issued by American Columbia on their regular series and on the Odyssey label.
Any light you can shed on this confirming a New York recording would be most appreciated. I suppose the other thing to do is to listen to the American Columbia disc and compare it to the Berlin recording of 1939.

Love discussing this kind of thing!

[CharmNewton]

To: CharmNewton/John
John, regarding my post above about the Waldstein and Gieseking's recordings, I found the 48-CD Warner/EMI set ... it was right in front of me and I didn't see it! So I checked the two CDs that contain the pianist's Waldstein:

a) Recorded August 11th, 1939 in Berlin, Germany
b) Recorded June 17th, 1951 in Zürich, Switzerland

I still cannot find anywhere any mention of a New York recording of the Waldstein that was issued by American Columbia on their regular series and on the Odyssey label.
Any light you can shed on this confirming a New York recording would be most appreciated. I suppose the other thing to do is to listen to the American Columbia disc and compare it to the Berlin recording of 1939.

Love discussing this kind of thing!

I did some digging on this question of a 1939 Waldstein last night. What I've learned probably will not answer the question yet.

Columbia Masterworks first issued the 1938 Berlin recording on 78 RPM disks. That recording had wide circulation among Columbia affiliates in that side of the EMI house. Photos of the 78s show the German matrix numbers on the labels of the American 78s.

The back cover of the Odyssey LP (32 16 0314) states that both the Waldstein and Appassionata performances date from 1939, which would indicate a recording from the New York sessions. Possibly also a typo. The timings for the movements, I: 7:08 and II-III 11:10 are closer to the 1938 recording (I: 7:20, II: 3:11, and III: 8:20) than those for the 1951 Zurich recording that Walter Legge produced for American Columbia (I: 8:03, II: 3:19, and III: 9:04). However, American Columbia would no longer have had rights to the 1938 recording after the termination of their agreement with EMI in 1953. The Odyssey disc was issued in 1968. I do not have the Odyssey LP and relied on photos of the back cover for the information mentioned above.

It is interesting that Warner is issuing these recordings that were made by EMI under contract to American Columbia. Perhaps the rights have reverted to EMI and through assignment to Warner. They do not offer any thanks for doing so, which implies that they own (or believe they own) them. It may also explain why American Columbia has never issued them on CD (I don't want to underplay legal issues such as royalty payments which may be more complicated in the U.S. than in other parts of the world), although they do not sound very good for 1951 recordings. Was Walter Legge overrated as a producer? He also produced the sonically overloaded (and in my opinion disfigured) Verdi Requiem conducted by Carlo Maria Giulini in 1964, a recording made in Kingsway Hall, one of the best recording halls until it fell into disrepair in the 1980s.

Ultimately listening will answer this question. I'd like to have a copy of the Odyssey issue and they are common, so I'l keep my eyes peeled for a good copy.

It wouldn't surprise me if the 1939 American sessions become a theme for another APR issue in the not-to-distant future (just a guess on my part).


John

[Lance]

John, many thanks for your research. I knew you would come back with something substantial! Yes, dates can really cause problems when one does research. You mention some "overloading" on some recordings produced by Walter Legge. I was listening to some Schubert Impromptus from the 48-CD set and noticed overloading in some places, which surprised me because I was unaware of it in listening to the original LPs. Still, it's wonderful to have so much of Gieseking in this set. Among the best transfers I've heard of Gieseking have come from Appian/APR. So, as you find things out, I hope you will keep me posted!

I did some digging on this question of a 1939 Waldstein last night. What I've learned probably will not answer the question yet.
Columbia Masterworks first issued the 1938 Berlin recording on 78 RPM disks. That recording had wide circulation among Columbia affiliates in that side of the EMI house. Photos of the 78s show the German matrix numbers on the labels of the American 78s.

The back cover of the Odyssey LP (32 16 0314) states that both the Waldstein and Appassionata performances date from 1939, which would indicate a recording from the New York sessions. Possibly also a typo. The timings for the movements, I: 7:08 and II-III 11:10 are closer to the 1938 recording (I: 7:20, II: 3:11, and III: 8:20) than those for the 1951 Zurich recording that Walter Legge produced for American Columbia (I: 8:03, II: 3:19, and III: 9:04). However, American Columbia would no longer have had rights to the 1938 recording after the termination of their agreement with EMI in 1953. The Odyssey disc was issued in 1968. I do not have the Odyssey LP and relied on photos of the back cover for the information mentioned above.

It is interesting that Warner is issuing these recordings that were made by EMI under contract to American Columbia. Perhaps the rights have reverted to EMI and through assignment to Warner. They do not offer any thanks for doing so, which implies that they own (or believe they own) them. It may also explain why American Columbia has never issued them on CD (I don't want to underplay legal issues such as royalty payments which may be more complicated in the U.S. than in other parts of the world), although they do not sound very good for 1951 recordings. Was Walter Legge overrated as a producer? He also produced the sonically overloaded (and in my opinion disfigured) Verdi Requiem conducted by Carlo Maria Giulini in 1964, a recording made in Kingsway Hall, one of the best recording halls until it fell into disrepair in the 1980s.

Ultimately listening will answer this question. I'd like to have a copy of the Odyssey issue and they are common, so I'l keep my eyes peeled for a good copy.

It wouldn't surprise me if the 1939 American sessions become a theme for another APR issue in the not-to-distant future (just a guess on my part).


John