The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Your 'hot spot' for all classical music subjects. Non-classical music subjects are to be posted in the Corner Pub.

Moderators: Lance, Corlyss_D

Post Reply
lennygoran
Posts: 19368
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:28 pm
Location: new york city

The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by lennygoran » Fri Jan 26, 2024 9:32 am

The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

A jazz musician considers the legacy and unfulfilled promise of George Gershwin’s catchy — or you could say corny — repertory staple.

Image

George Gershwin’s “Rhapsody in Blue” premiered on Feb. 12, 1924, and has been enchanting audiences ever since.Credit...Michael Ochs Archives/Getty Images

Image

Gershwin’s task in the “Rhapsody” was to allude to ragtime and blues in a virtuoso concerto.Credit...Corbis-Bettmann/Agence France-Presse

By Ethan Iverson

Ethan Iverson is a pianist, composer and writer.

Jan. 26, 2024

The work is a guaranteed success. After it is over, audience members leap out of their seats for a standing ovation.

Such has been the response to “Rhapsody in Blue” ever since its premiere 100 years ago, on Feb. 12, 1924. George Gershwin had been asked by the conductor Paul Whiteman to supply a “jazz concerto” for the event An Experiment in Modern Music at Aeolian Hall in Manhattan, and the landscape of American music hasn’t been the same since.

Thanks to the centennial, you’re likely to come across a lot of “Rhapsody” performances this year — not that the anniversary makes much difference, because that’s always the case. Indeed, “Rhapsody” is one of the most frequently programmed pieces in the symphonic repertoire by an American composer.

Beyond the concert stage, the work’s themes are heard in movies and television, and are piped into the cabins of United Airlines flights. It has even functioned as propaganda: At the 1984 Olympics in Los Angeles, during the height of the Cold War, the American contingent brought out 84 pianists to perform excerpts from the “Rhapsody,” accompanied by a battalion of dancers.

As with many other classical hits, casual listeners might be surprised to learn that the familiar melodies are part of a much longer composition. First, George Gershwin wrote a substantial two-piano score. The composer Ferde Grofé orchestrated the premiere for Whiteman’s idiosyncratic jazz band, including banjo. Later on, Grofé did two more orchestrations, in 1926 and 1942; the last one was for full symphonic forces and is the version most often heard today. Gershwin himself never fussed with making an authoritative edition, going so far as to suggest four possible cuts in the score.

Regardless of these divergences in source text, first-time listeners are struck by a bolt of optimism. A new day is here! Gershwin’s melodic material is spun with enchanting gold thread, from the opening clarinet swoop to the bluesy piano riffs to the epic sentimental melody near journey’s end. No phrase can ever be forgotten.

At this point, though, some of us more jaded types are ready to at least try to forget.

That’s because the promise of 1924 hasn’t been honored. Gershwin’s proposal was bold and obvious: Early forms of African American ragtime and blues had taken the nation by storm, and his job was to allude to those idioms in a virtuoso concerto. As a professional tunesmith and serious student of ragtime and early jazz piano, he was well suited for the task. As it turned out, the Experiment in Modern Music concert also unlocked something for the composer: Most of the famous Gershwin songs we still hear often today were written after the Aeolian Hall performance.


It is easy, and accurate, to call “Rhapsody in Blue” naïve and corny. But, to be fair, it was still very early in the timeline of jazz and swinging Black music on record. Louis Armstrong and Duke Ellington were just getting started. In addition, as corny and Caucasian as it might be, the “Rhapsody” went straight into the language of the most powerful and innovative Black jazz musicians. Art Blakey, Tadd Dameron, Billy Strayhorn and Herbie Nichols praised the work. Mary Lou Williams said that, one of the first guitar heroes, Charlie Christian, “would be playing ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ and all these heavy classical things.” A long line of significant jazz pianists, including Cedar Walton and Herbie Hancock, practiced the solo piano arrangement of the ‘Rhapsody’ when they were children.


The reception history of “Rhapsody in Blue” is more problematic than the work itself. If the piece had been less successful, perhaps more could have been done to build on it. Instead, it has clogged the arteries of American music. Rather than seek out new possibilities, promoters, educators and other gatekeepers can just claim: The ‘Rhapsody’ is there, a guaranteed success, so why dig deeper?

If “Rhapsody in Blue” is a masterpiece, it might be the worst masterpiece. The promise of a true fusion on the concert stage basically starts and ends with it. A hundred years later, most popular Black music is separate from the world of formal composition, while most American concert musicians can’t relate to a score with a folkloric attitude, let alone swing.

The essential element here is rhythm. African and Latin diasporic (especially Cuban) rhythm has rarely been understood or truly respected by American institutions connected with symphonic repertoire. Gershwin didn’t help this issue with “Rhapsody in Blue”; nobody but the pianist has to play more than a few bars in steady tempo. The composer explained: “Jazz, they said, had to be in strict time. It had to cling to dance rhythms. I resolved, if possible, to kill that misconception with one sturdy blow.”

That “sturdy blow” inadvertently meant that nobody had to go to school. In his lifetime, the pianist Oscar Levant was considered a popular Gershwin expert and practitioner, partly because he was close friends with the composer, partly because he was a charming film personality. Levant even plays excerpts from the title piece in the cheesy Gershwin biopic “Rhapsody in Blue” (1945). Although Levant was a virtuoso and his rendition of the “Rhapsody” has high pianistic finish, his rendition also has terrible rhythm — worse than any first-year jazz piano student in college. Still, Levant’s inability to play Gershwin’s basic syncopations and polyrhythms correctly didn’t stop him from selling many performances and recording of the piece.

To this day, the training of American conservatory musicians prioritizes pure tone production and mechanical facility over a basic dance beat.

Generally, histories of American music consider Gershwin more important than Ellington. Jazz musicians and connoisseurs would disagree; any mature Ellington LP beats out any recording of “Rhapsody in Blue.” There’s just no comparison in terms of depth of feeling, let alone swing. Ellington was usually debonair and reserved in public, but his stunning 1961 trio deconstruction of Gershwin’s “Summertime” documents a moment of losing his composure. The huge, dissonant piano cluster at the end seems to signify Ellington’s justified anger about Gershwin’s continued eclipse of him as the great American composer, long after Gershwin was dead.

It has only gotten harder for serious Black musicians to manage the Gershwin problem. Before embarking on his 1998 project “Gershwin’s World,” Hancock had doubts, which he explained in his memoir, “Possibilities”: “Why should I make a record celebrating a great white American musician? Especially when that musician had gained fame by creating music in a style that was actually founded by Black musicians — who never got the credit, the fans or the money they so richly deserved. I knew I’d get flak from the Black community, and understandably so.”

Aaron Diehl is a serious jazz pianist, but strong classical technique has given him the opportunity to perform Gershwin’s music dozens of times with major orchestras. In an interview, Diehl was frank about how awkward “Rhapsody in Blue” could feel in rehearsal and performance.

“The fundamental question is how to move beyond the nostalgia for this piece, and find viable musical solutions to a deeply rooted problem,” he said. “‘Rhapsody in Blue’ isn’t source material. James P. Johnson’s ‘Carolina Shout,’ Fats Waller’s ‘Handful of Keys’ and Jelly Roll Morton’s ‘The Pearls’ are source material.”

Diehl has heard, he added, “Marcus Roberts play ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ many times with his trio, who collectively manage to turn the work on its head, yet also align it with a deeper understanding of the musical references. That approach is one blueprint for grappling with these issues. Another is giving living composers the opportunity to write works that allow musicians to tackle some of the nuances of a rich language. That will take some time, even after 100 years of hindsight.”

Despite all this, and regardless of whether “Rhapsody in Blue” is the worst masterpiece, it’s also the best cheesecake, or something else attractive yet unhealthy. Listen to it, and you can’t resist whistling Gershwin’s catchy themes.

The composer and pianist Timo Andres told me, “‘Rhapsody in Blue’ is like one of those inflatable punching bags that just springs back up whatever you do to it.” We are blessed and stuck with this piece, a flawed classic that exemplifies our nation’s unsettled relationship with the originators of African American music and technique.


https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/26/arts ... -blue.html

diegobueno
Winds Specialist
Posts: 3206
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:26 pm
Contact:

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by diegobueno » Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:24 am

Ethan Iverson wrote:Despite all this, and regardless of whether “Rhapsody in Blue” is the worst masterpiece, it’s also the best cheesecake, or something else attractive yet unhealthy. Listen to it, and you can’t resist whistling Gershwin’s catchy themes
That's the wonder of it. The Rhapsody in Blue is a phenomenon in itself. No one could imitate it, no one could succeed it, not even Gershwin himself. It doesn't pave the way for further developments. It's a singularity. Any criticism one might have of it is undoubtedly true. It is naive, it is corny, Sturcturally it's a patchwork. It submits its themes to figurations taken from Liszt and Tchaikovsky. Nevertheless it somehow works magnificently when it shouldn't work at all.

I'm so glad that we can discuss this on the CMG board. In olden days it would have been immediately shot down by the two Johns, who would turn it into an argument about whether Gershwin's name should be allowed to sully this board, except in the Corner Pub.
Black lives matter.

Febnyc
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue May 20, 2003 1:31 pm
Location: Stamford CT USA

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by Febnyc » Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:25 am

What drivel. I laughed all the way through.

I'm sorry if this 50-year old is "jaded" (and he assumes there are other "jaded types" too - how he knows this is a mystery). I wonder if Mr. Iverson, whoever he is, dreams of composing a work which, after 100 years, is still so ubiquitous that some critic could one day refer to it as forgetful.

What is behind all of his discussion of "Black Music?" Gershwin's conception was to limn a vision of America as a melting pot imbued with energy and ineluctably moving forward. Why does Iverson invoke a racial element?

And, PS - if we stretch to accept Iverson's quasi-scholarship - I've listened to some of Ellington's so-called "serious" music (Harlem, Black Brown & Beige, The River and others). In my opinion these don't hold a candle to Gershwin's pieces - even those which the author probably would misclassify as "black" music (preposterous, pandering).

Gosh! I could go on - but suffice to say: If R in Blue is a "punching bag" I'm quite happy to be "blessed and stuck" with it.
Last edited by Febnyc on Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

nosreme
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:04 pm

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by nosreme » Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:45 am

Like Porgy and Bess, Rhapsody in Blue was (and remains) decent Broadway show material that got tagged and relentlessly promoted as classical. Inflation like that does nothing good for listeners, players, the music, or the composer's and composition's status in the overall scheme of musical things.

Febnyc
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue May 20, 2003 1:31 pm
Location: Stamford CT USA

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by Febnyc » Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:52 am

nosreme wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:45 am
Like Porgy and Bess, Rhapsody in Blue was (and remains) decent Broadway show material that got tagged and relentlessly promoted as classical. Inflation like that does nothing good for listeners, players, the music, or the composer's and composition's status in the overall scheme of musical things.
I don't agree.

But, it doesn't matter as far as this NYT piece is concerned. The argument is not whether R in Blue is "classical" or "Broadway show music" (really?). Iverson has racialized it and denounced it for what it is - not for what it should be.

Sorry - but how can Porgy and Bess be relegated to "decent Broadway show material?"

Modernistfan
Posts: 2271
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:23 pm

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by Modernistfan » Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:06 pm

Leave "Rhapsody in Blue" alone. For that matter, composers have been basing works on popular tunes for at least 500 years. The popular French tune, "L'homme armé," dating from the Late Middle Ages, was used as the basis for something like 40 or more masses, including masses by such composers as Dufay, Ockeghem, Brumel, Pipelare, and Palestrina.

barney
Posts: 7895
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by barney » Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:09 pm

I just listen to RinB as music, without the political overtones because I'm not American. I'm not sure if that makes me better or worse off. It's great fun to listen to.

Which performances do people recommend?

Febnyc
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue May 20, 2003 1:31 pm
Location: Stamford CT USA

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by Febnyc » Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:26 pm

barney wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:09 pm
I just listen to RinB as music, without the political overtones because I'm not American. I'm not sure if that makes me better or worse off. It's great fun to listen to.

Which performances do people recommend?
Amen to that.

Of the three recordings I own (Lance probably has 122!) I would choose the Earl Wild/Boston Pops/Arthur Fiedler on RCA 6159-2-RG.

Michael Tilson Thomas does a great job with the R in B as soloist and conductor on CBS 39699.

And the third is with Mischa Dichter as pianist on Philips 411 123 - with a really nice coupling of Addinsell's Warsaw Concerto. (Don't sneer at that fake Rachmaninoff concerto - it's lots of fun. :wink: )
Last edited by Febnyc on Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rach3
Posts: 9274
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:17 am

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by Rach3 » Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:30 pm

barney wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:09 pm

Which performances do people recommend?
Andre Watts, solo piano version, my lp here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8jyMlf7PLw

Febnyc
Posts: 2358
Joined: Tue May 20, 2003 1:31 pm
Location: Stamford CT USA

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by Febnyc » Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:32 pm

Rach3 wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:30 pm
barney wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:09 pm

Which performances do people recommend?
Andre Watts, solo piano version, my lp here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8jyMlf7PLw
👍

diegobueno
Winds Specialist
Posts: 3206
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:26 pm
Contact:

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by diegobueno » Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:52 pm

I assume nosreme is one of our usual posters who's posting anonymously (his/her first and only post) to bait me to get an angry response. Or maybe it's the ghost of jbuck, posting the kind of response he would have made back in the day. Hi, John. Nice to see you again. You're still wrong about Gershwin, of course.
Black lives matter.

Modernistfan
Posts: 2271
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:23 pm

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by Modernistfan » Fri Jan 26, 2024 3:15 pm

A recording of the Gershwin orchestral works, including "Rhapsody in Blue," that I have had for years, is on a 2-CD Vox set conducted by Leonard Slatkin with the St. Louis Symphony and Jeffrey Siegel as piano soloist. The set was dirt cheap. The sound, late analog with the team of Aubort-Nickrenz, is excellent.

barney
Posts: 7895
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by barney » Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:48 pm

Rach3 wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:30 pm
barney wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:09 pm

Which performances do people recommend?
Andre Watts, solo piano version, my lp here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8jyMlf7PLw
Got that one. Will listen again over the weekend. Thanks.

barney
Posts: 7895
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by barney » Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:48 pm

Modernistfan wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2024 3:15 pm
A recording of the Gershwin orchestral works, including "Rhapsody in Blue," that I have had for years, is on a 2-CD Vox set conducted by Leonard Slatkin with the St. Louis Symphony and Jeffrey Siegel as piano soloist. The set was dirt cheap. The sound, late analog with the team of Aubort-Nickrenz, is excellent.
Thank you. Don't have that one, but will keep an eye out.

barney
Posts: 7895
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by barney » Fri Jan 26, 2024 5:51 pm

diegobueno wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:52 pm
I assume nosreme is one of our usual posters who's posting anonymously (his/her first and only post) to bait me to get an angry response. Or maybe it's the ghost of jbuck, posting the kind of response he would have made back in the day. Hi, John. Nice to see you again. You're still wrong about Gershwin, of course.
:lol: :lol: :lol:What about our usual posters - say Joe, Steve, Len, Brian, Belle, me, yourself - makes you think we'd hide behind anonymity? We're all generally pretty free with our opinions, popular or otherwise.

Belle
Posts: 5224
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:45 am
Location: Regional NSW, Australia

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by Belle » Fri Jan 26, 2024 6:07 pm

diegobueno wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:24 am
Ethan Iverson wrote:Despite all this, and regardless of whether “Rhapsody in Blue” is the worst masterpiece, it’s also the best cheesecake, or something else attractive yet unhealthy. Listen to it, and you can’t resist whistling Gershwin’s catchy themes
That's the wonder of it. The Rhapsody in Blue is a phenomenon in itself. No one could imitate it, no one could succeed it, not even Gershwin himself. It doesn't pave the way for further developments. It's a singularity. Any criticism one might have of it is undoubtedly true. It is naive, it is corny, Sturcturally it's a patchwork. It submits its themes to figurations taken from Liszt and Tchaikovsky. Nevertheless it somehow works magnificently when it shouldn't work at all.

I'm so glad that we can discuss this on the CMG board. In olden days it would have been immediately shot down by the two Johns, who would turn it into an argument about whether Gershwin's name should be allowed to sully this board, except in the Corner Pub.
You've absolutely nailed it!! Completely agree. I feel a great deal of sadness even looking at those pictures of George Gershwin because of his early death - and the fact that Frances Gershwin, his sister, accused him of being clumsy when he dropped the cutlery; all the while he had a hideous, terminal brain tumour!! And during that 'clumsy' period George endured intolerable headaches.

nosreme
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:04 pm

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by nosreme » Fri Jan 26, 2024 7:25 pm

diegobueno wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:52 pm
I assume nosreme is one of our usual posters who's posting anonymously (his/her first and only post) to bait me to get an angry response. Or maybe it's the ghost of jbuck, posting the kind of response he would have made back in the day. Hi, John. Nice to see you again. You're still wrong about Gershwin, of course.
Not my first and only post. Not designed to bait anybody (sorry if that's a blow to your ego). I have no idea who jbuck is/was. I never mentioned whether I like Gershwin, but I actually do.

Lance
Site Administrator
Posts: 20851
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:27 am
Location: Binghamton, New York
Contact:

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by Lance » Sat Jan 27, 2024 2:10 am

Hmm ... disappointing. I spent considerable time listing the versions I have of Rhapsody in Blue and didn't realize that I timed out while writing on CMG. So, I won't go through all that again except to say that on CD, near as I can determine, having collected CDs since their inception (about 1985), I have 66 CDs and 11 LPs (those performances than didn't make it to CD), 77 in all. [I know, it's crazy, but I love the piece!] I didn't make it to the 122 that was suggested, thankfully! My favorites include Pennario/Felix Slatkin, Bernstein, Previn, Earl Wild, Byron Janis, Ivan Davis, Watts, Tilson-Thomas. Earl Wild recorded quite a few not only commercially, but during live concerts and I pleased to have them. Unless versions are discovered by Rubinstein, Horowitz, Moiseiwitsch or some other great historical pianist (which I doubt), my days of collecting the work have come to a conclusion! Enough is enough, I'm sure you will concur. ♫
Febnyc wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:26 pm
barney wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:09 pm
I just listen to RinB as music, without the political overtones because I'm not American. I'm not sure if that makes me better or worse off. It's great fun to listen to.

Which performances do people recommend?
Amen to that.

Of the three recordings I own (Lance probably has 122!) I would choose the Earl Wild/Boston Pops/Arthur Fiedler on RCA 6159-2-RG.

Michael Tilson Thomas does a great job with the R in B as soloist and conductor on CBS 39699.

And the third is with Mischa Dichter as pianist on Philips 411 123 - with a really nice coupling of Addinsell's Warsaw Concerto. (Don't sneer at that fake Rachmaninoff concerto - it's lots of fun. 😉 )
Lance G. Hill
Editor-in-Chief
______________________________________________________

When she started to play, Mr. Steinway came down and personally
rubbed his name off the piano. [Speaking about pianist &*$#@+#]

Image

Ricordanza
Posts: 2504
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 4:58 am
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by Ricordanza » Sat Jan 27, 2024 6:38 am

barney wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:09 pm
I just listen to RinB as music, without the political overtones because I'm not American. I'm not sure if that makes me better or worse off. It's great fun to listen to.
I'm American, and I'm content to listen to Rhapsody in Blue without the political (or racial) overtones. If a composer such as Mr. Iverson is dissatisfied with the piece, then write something better, or more authentic, or jazzier, or whatever. An even better alternative is to do what Marcus Roberts has done many times, and that is perform the piece with improvisations in his own style. That's what I heard in concert last week (see my review) and enjoyed as a peak musical experience. I don't care how it is categorized--classical, jazz or something else.

barney
Posts: 7895
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by barney » Sat Jan 27, 2024 8:01 am

Febnyc wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:26 pm
barney wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:09 pm
I just listen to RinB as music, without the political overtones because I'm not American. I'm not sure if that makes me better or worse off. It's great fun to listen to.

Which performances do people recommend?
Amen to that.

Of the three recordings I own (Lance probably has 122!) I would choose the Earl Wild/Boston Pops/Arthur Fiedler on RCA 6159-2-RG.

Michael Tilson Thomas does a great job with the R in B as soloist and conductor on CBS 39699.

And the third is with Mischa Dichter as pianist on Philips 411 123 - with a really nice coupling of Addinsell's Warsaw Concerto. (Don't sneer at that fake Rachmaninoff concerto - it's lots of fun. 😉 )
Sorry, I missed this post last time round.
These are the ones I have:
Andre Previn pno Pittsburgh Symphony O Andre Previn
Boyan Vodenicharov pno Philharmonia Bulgarica Jo Alfidi
Earl Wild pno Boston Pops Orchestra Arthur Fiedler
James Levine pno Chicago Symphony O James Levine
Jean-Yves Thibaudet pno Baltimore Symphony O Marin Alsop
Julius Katchen pno London SO Istvan Kertesz
Julius Katchen pno Mantovani and his Orchestra Mantovani
Leonard Bernstein pno Los Angeles Phil O Leonard Bernstein
Leonard Bernstein pno Los Angeles Philharmonic O Leonard Bernstein
Siegfried Stockigt pno Gewandhaus O Leipzig Kurt Masur
Stanley Black pno London Festival O Stanley Black
So I cvan listen to the Wild/Boston Pops.
It seems I don't have the Andre Watts, but I can listen to that on YT.

barney
Posts: 7895
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by barney » Sat Jan 27, 2024 8:04 am

Ricordanza wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2024 6:38 am
I don't care how it is categorized--classical, jazz or something else.
I crave your indulgence while I tell one of my favourite Jewish jokes, which you have just reminded me of. A rabbi goes into a deli, points to some smoked ham, and says "give me a pound of that fish."
"But rabbi," the assistant says, "that's ham."
The rabbi replies: "I don't care for the name of the fish."

lennygoran
Posts: 19368
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:28 pm
Location: new york city

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by lennygoran » Sat Jan 27, 2024 8:42 am

Febnyc wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:25 am

Gosh! I could go on - but suffice to say: If R in Blue is a "punching bag" I'm quite happy to be "blessed and stuck" with it.
Frank, what can I say-I listen to the work and love it. It makes me think about Wagner-the antisemite-I listen to the operas and am captivated. Regards, Len

lennygoran
Posts: 19368
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:28 pm
Location: new york city

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by lennygoran » Sat Jan 27, 2024 8:48 am

nosreme wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:45 am
Like Porgy and Bess, Rhapsody in Blue was (and remains) decent Broadway show material that got tagged and relentlessly promoted as classical. Inflation like that does nothing good for listeners, players, the music, or the composer's and composition's status in the overall scheme of musical things.
We saw Porgy and Bess live and HD from the Met-they were wonderful experiences-the Met sure got that one right-for me so much better to spend their money on that then alot of these updated operas where they already had superb productions of the operas. Regards, Len

lennygoran
Posts: 19368
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:28 pm
Location: new york city

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by lennygoran » Sat Jan 27, 2024 8:56 am

barney wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2024 8:04 am

I crave your indulgence while I tell one of my favourite Jewish jokes, which you have just reminded me of. A rabbi goes into a deli, points to some smoked ham, and says "give me a pound of that fish."
"But rabbi," the assistant says, "that's ham."
The rabbi replies: "I don't care for the name of the fish."
Hank the joke might be even better if ham was changed to pastrami and if the deli was named Katzs! Regards, Len [fleeing] :lol:

diegobueno
Winds Specialist
Posts: 3206
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:26 pm
Contact:

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by diegobueno » Sat Jan 27, 2024 10:30 am

nosreme wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2024 7:25 pm
diegobueno wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:52 pm
I assume nosreme is one of our usual posters who's posting anonymously (his/her first and only post) to bait me to get an angry response. Or maybe it's the ghost of jbuck, posting the kind of response he would have made back in the day. Hi, John. Nice to see you again. You're still wrong about Gershwin, of course.
Not my first and only post. Not designed to bait anybody (sorry if that's a blow to your ego). I have no idea who jbuck is/was. I never mentioned whether I like Gershwin, but I actually do.
So welcome back to the forum. I'm relieved that we're free of a ghostly presence. You may not have known jbuck, but your post was a very much an accurate facsimile of what he would have said. I don't know why you would jump to any conclusions about my ego.

I do think you're very much wrong about Gershwin's concert music.
Black lives matter.

diegobueno
Winds Specialist
Posts: 3206
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:26 pm
Contact:

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by diegobueno » Sat Jan 27, 2024 12:07 pm

Ethan Iverson, quoting Herbie Hancock wrote: It has only gotten harder for serious Black musicians to manage the Gershwin problem. Before embarking on his 1998 project “Gershwin’s World,” Hancock had doubts, which he explained in his memoir, “Possibilities”: “Why should I make a record celebrating a great white American musician? Especially when that musician had gained fame by creating music in a style that was actually founded by Black musicians — who never got the credit, the fans or the money they so richly deserved. I knew I’d get flak from the Black community, and understandably so.”
I can understand why a black musician would feel that way. There's a long history in the US of white musicians taking music originating with black musicians and then getting much more famous and rich than the people who originally made the music (think Elvis). You can understand why they would feel resentment.

Why Gershwin in particular should be the object of their scorn, I'm puzzled by. Why not Benny Goodman, for example, or Artie Shaw, or other white jazz musicians throughout the past century? Or more to the point, why not Paul Whiteman, the so-called "king of jazz" of that era, who originated the "experiment in modern music" which produced the Rhapsody in Blue in the first place? Gershwin wasn't even a jazz musician. His native idiom was that of Broadway, then as now a distinctly Jewish mode of expression. When he wrote "Strike up the band" or "Of Thee I Sing" he wasn't appropriating anyone else's music. And frankly, Rhapsody in Blue doesn't appropriate very much in the way of black music. There's not a whole heck of a lot of jazz in it. But to the (white) society at large, this was close enough to jazz. It got tagged and relentless promoted as jazz in classical music.

I think Gershwin's real sin, and the motivation for most of the backlash against him from the "jaded types", is that he had the nerve to gain fame by creating music in a style that was actually founded by European musicians. And he did it without relinquishing the very qualities that had made him a success in the world of Broadway. He studied his Liszt and helped himself to all sorts of Liszt-derived piano figurations. He filled it with tunes that could have found a place in a Broadway show, but didn't, because he chose not to put them there. They're great tunes. Rachmaninoff could, just maybe, have come up with the famous E major tune, and I suspect Gershwin's intention was to emulate one of Rachmaninoff's sweeping 2nd themes, but Rach never did.

Gershwin never quit studying music either. Each of his following concert works shows an advance in construction, orchestration and sophistication. He studied with Schillinger, he met Berg and Schoenberg, he even contemplated using the 12-tone system. But the music he wrote still has his unique personality. That's the number one sign of a great composer: someone who can imprint his unique personality onto every bar he writes. Gershwin did this. Everything else is immaterial.

But the jaded types go by the caste system. If you're born into a lower caste you're not allowed in the society of the uppers castes. You hear pompous statements like "Inflation like that does nothing good for listeners, players, the music, or the composer's and composition's status in the overall scheme of musical things." That's pure snobbery and pure balderdash.
Black lives matter.

Rach3
Posts: 9274
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:17 am

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by Rach3 » Sat Jan 27, 2024 12:19 pm

Sergio Fiorentino plays Gershwin songs and discusses Gershwin in 1994, live video, starting at about 15:30 to 29:00 in this video, including his views on the Rhapsody , Concerto,American in Paris:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZLwmHYrLa4

Modernistfan
Posts: 2271
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 5:23 pm

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by Modernistfan » Sat Jan 27, 2024 11:23 pm

Agreed--you can't racialize everything in music. I would bet that if you played William Grant Still's "Afro-American Symphony" to an audience who was unfamiliar with the composer or the work (and without mentioning the title, which, of course, would be a dead giveaway), and then asked the audience members who they thought composed it, the answer you would get from 95% of that (uninformed) audience would have been "Gershwin."

Rach3
Posts: 9274
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:17 am

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by Rach3 » Fri Feb 09, 2024 7:18 pm

Can hear The Marcus Roberts Trio with the Philadelphians at Carnegie recently:

https://www.wqxr.org/story/philadelphia ... ab=summary

maestrob
Posts: 18952
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:30 am

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by maestrob » Sat Feb 10, 2024 5:01 am

Rach3 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2024 7:18 pm
Can hear The Marcus Roberts Trio with the Philadelphians at Carnegie recently:

https://www.wqxr.org/story/philadelphia ... ab=summary
Another concert that I couldn't hear. Thanks Steve 😊.

Rach3
Posts: 9274
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:17 am

Re: The Worst Masterpiece: ‘Rhapsody in Blue’ at 100

Post by Rach3 » Sun Feb 11, 2024 7:57 am

Fww,from WQXR for Tuesday,Feb.13:

"George Gershwin’s Rhapsody in Blue turns 100. WQXR marks the occasion with a look at how this iconic piece of classical music came to be, and how it continues to inspire musicians a century after its first performance. Join us for Strike Up the Band! A Century of Gershwin’s Rhapsody in Blue.

Host Jeff Spurgeon takes listeners through a celebration of 100 years of Rhapsody in Blue. During this special, guests like Michael Feinstein, Lara Downes, Marcus Roberts, Vince Giordano, Maurice Peress, and Ryan Bañagale will tell us the stories behind the composition and premiere of this iconic work and they’ll explore how artists have performed and reimagined Gershwin’s masterpiece over the course of the century."

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests