Top Dozen Symphonies

[maestrob]

If you had to choose, symphony lovers, which would be your top 12? As a bonus, how about your favorite recordings?

Now that I've set this impossible task in motion, here's my take:

Mahler: Symphony #2 (Abbado Lucerne DVD)
Shostakovich #5 (Bernstein/New York (in Japan) DVD)
Bruckner #8 (Szell/Cleveland)
Mahler #10 (Ormandy/Philadelphia)
Mahler #9 (Bruno Walter/CSO)
Prokofiev #6 (Ormandy/Philadelphia)
Brahms #1 (Solti/Chicago)
Mozart #41 (Jupiter) Kubelik
Mahler #3 (Martinon/Chicago)
Khachaturian #2 (composer conducting 1977)
Copland #3 (Bernstein/NY on Columbia)
Shostakovich 13 (Kondrashin or Ormandy)

[Rach3]

Beethoven 7, Toscanini/NBC
Mozart 38, Boehm/VPO
Sibelius 5,Bernstein/VPO
Rachmaninoff 2, Boult/LSO
Prokofieff 5, Leinsdorf/Boston
Brahms 3, Steinberg/Pittsburgh
Mozart 40,Boehm/VPO
Shostakovich 5,Ormandy/PO
Sibelius 3, Segerstam/Turku Phil.

To make 12: Prokofieff 2 and 7, Sibelius 7

[Febnyc]

Hmmm...today's picks...a baker's dozen, if you please:

Mahler 2 (Solti/Chicago)
Sibelius 5 (Von Karajan/BPO)
Kalinnikov 1 (Järvi/Scottish National O)
Beethoven 7 (Von Karajan/BPO)
Brahms 3 (Alsop/LPO)
Shostakovich 7 (Bernstein/Chicago)
Bruckner 7 (Celibidache/Munich PO)
Mahler 1 (Solti/Chicago)
Braga Santos 4 (Cassuto/NSO of Ireland)
Mozart 40 (Levine/Chicago)
Saint-Saëns 3 (Munch/BSO)
Hanson 2 (Slatkin/SLSO)
Rachmaninoff 2 (Rozhdestvensky/LSO)

Tomorrow's choices? Who knows?

[jserraglio]

Shostakovich 5 Bernstein
Nielsen 4 Martinon
Mahler 3 Horenstein
Mahler 4 Szell
Bruckner 7 Jochum
Simpson 3 Horenstein
Shostakovich 14 Britten/ECO
Bruckner 8 Horenstein
Mahler 2 'Resurrection' Bernstein/Cleveland live 1970
Khachaturian 3 Stokowski/CSO

[Belle]

Probably not exactly in order, but number one will never move.

Brahms #4, VPO, Kleiber
Beethoven #4, Concertgebouw, Kleiber
Beethoven #7 Chamber Orchestra of Europe, Harnoncourt
Beethoven #3, Harnoncourt, as above
Brahms - the remaining 3
Rachmaninov #2
Dvorak #7
Mozart #39, #41 Mackerras
Schumann #3

[jserraglio]

My pick of fave Symphonic Cycles

Nielsen Blomstedt
Vaughan Williams Boult, or Previn, or Norrington live
Haydn "London" cycle Szell & "Paris" cycle Leslie Jones
Brahms Ansermet
Shostakovich Rozhdestvensky Melodiya
Schumann Szell
Prokofiev Martinon Vox
Simpson Handley 1-10, Matthew Taylor 11 Hyperion
Sibelius Blomstedt
Bruckner Jochum

[maestrob]

Wow! Nobody else admires Copland III, with that killer fugue in the second movement? Just saying, but I think it's a masterpiece! I own about 8-10 recordings. Do give it another try!

Ormandy's Columbia stereo recording belongs on my list as well, as does Bernstein's Chicago recording of Shostakovich VII. Thanks for the reminders.

[Belle]

Thanks for the heads up; I've never heard this work but will definitely listen when I have more time. As with the work of Vaughan Williams and Elgar and their 'Englishness' I'm betting the Copland has a strongly American idiom.

Believe it or not, there is a term for a specifically English quality found in a distinctive style of polyphonic music. John Dunstable and his "Countenance Angloise". Note that the barbarian Henry VIII destroyed much of that composer's musical legacy when he threw the Catholic Church out of Britain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contenanc ... nd%20sixth.

[Lance]

This is really a tough one to answer given the number of symphonies composed. Nonethelss, I have a some favorites.

•Haydn: Symphony #53 (Imperial) w/Stokowski, RCA/Cala
•Sibelius: Symphony #2 w/Koussevitzky BSO, 1951) RCA
•Beethoven: Symphony #7 w/Carlos Kleiber (DGG)
•Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique w/Markevitch (DGG)
•Rachmaninoff: Symphony #2 w/Sanderling w/Leningrad (DGG)
•Brahms: Symphony #4 w/Szell/Cleveland (Sony)
•Schumann: Symphony #4 w/Leinsdorf/BSO (RCA)
•Beethoven: Symphony #3 (Eroica) w/Monteux (Decca)
•Mozart: Symphony #40 w/Walter/Columbia SO (Sony)
•Mahler: Symphony #3 w/Levine/Philadelphia SO (w/M. Horne) (RCA)
•Mahler: Symphony #1 w/Mitropoulos/Minneapolis SO (Sony)
•Liszt: Faust Symphony w/Beecham (Young, tenor) (EMI)

Reasons: Stokowski in Haydn 53, one of my favorite, unheard symphonies and Stokowski made it come to life; Koussevitzky brought to life the Sibelius 2nd even in an old mono recording, it made a deep impression. Carlos just had a way with Beethoven 7th that seemed his own. Markevitch did wonders with the Berlioz Sanderling in the old Rachmaninoff 2nd. Szell did a great set of all four Brahms, but the 4th was a standout. I was never a great Leinsdorf fan, but his Schumann 4th did everything right. Bruno Walter in Mozart is nearly incomparable, just a master of this music. Levine and Mahler's 3rd w/Marilyn Horne was, in MHO, one of the bet things I ever heard him conduct. Mitropoulos/Mahler #1 is an historical recording but the conductor did wonders with the "Titan." Beecham, he seemed to shine in music that isn't heard that much, and I remember it well even after all these years. Obviously, there are so many recordings of those works so I tried to identity those that remained with me even though there may be others that sound better or performed more traditionally. It's just great that we have so many at our disposal to love and enjoy! I have a penchant for many of the conductors that are no longer amongst us. I could have included Bernstein but keeping it at 12, as suggested.

[jserraglio]

On the American front, besides the most worthy Copland & exciting Hansen (hey, what about Barber and Ives?) ...

Harold Shapero Symphony for Classical Orchestra Bernstein/Columbia SO or Previn/LAPO:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7nI1N_HgX ... 1I&pp=8AUB

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JEsqV7v9- ... =2&pp=8AUB

Also —
— David Diamond 4 Bernstein or Gerard Schwarz on Delos/Naxos, or this Bernstein-led live 9th.



— Eugene Ormandy's recordings of the midcentury school of American neoclassicists on Columbia.
— George Rochberg, his twelve-tone 2nd, Szell world premiere broadcast or Christopher Lyndon-Gee on Naxos
— William Schuman 3 & 8 Bernstein
— Roger Sessions 7 & 8 (at the premiere of the 7th, Oct, 1, 1967, the composer sat right behind me!)

[diegobueno]

Wow! Nobody else admires Copland III, with that killer fugue in the second movement? Just saying, but I think it's a masterpiece! I own about 8-10 recordings. Do give it another try!

I have both Bernstein recordings of Copland's 3rd. It's definitely my favorite American symphony. Probably Copland's best score.

I'm afraid I just can't make a meaningful list of a dozen favorite symphonies. There are dozens and dozens of favorite symphonies.

[maestrob]

Thanks for all those VERY INTERESTING replies!

I've noticed that (so far) no one has listed Beethoven IX. That symphony is a surefire test of a conductor's abilities, particularly in shaping the final choral movement. Personally, I use it to decide whether to buy anything else by whomever. It has been a surefire guide as to the quality of any conductor's work. My preferences are 1)von Karajan Berlin 1963 and 2) Jordi Savall (recent release).

Mark, you mentioned that there are too many favorite symphonies, and I agree with your assessment. I started this thread with the idea of a dozen favorites being its backbone, yet I've already added several to my own list! No sense of discipline in my senior years, eh?

Thanks for all the Americana youtube postings, Joe! I didn't know those live Bernstein recordings existed, and I look forward to hearing them. I suppose we could start a new thread on neglected American symphonies... Of course I have the Gerard Schwarz/David Diamond series on Delos. Lots of fine music there.

Lance, I certainly agree with you about Koussevitsky's Sibelius II!

[Rach3]

On the American front, besides the most worthy Copland & exciting Hansen (hey, what about Barber and Ives?) ...

Speaking of Barber, my recording of his Sym.# 1 , perhaps my fav American:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flnvNKzEsOM

[Febnyc]

Speaking further on the American front, I'd offer a few more:

George Frederick Bristow - Symphonies 2 & 3
William Henry Fry - Niagara Symphony
Louis Moreau Gottschalk - A Night in the Tropics (terrific!)
William Grant Still - Afro-American Symphony
Charles Ives - Symphony 3 The Camp Meeting (a blast!)

and - Alan Hovhaness (any one of his 67 symphonies - they're all pretty much the same more or less )

[barney]

Here are the top 20 according to the 2016 BBC Music Magazine survey of 151 conductors.

1. Beethoven 3
2. Beethoven 9
3. Mozart 41
4. Mahler 9
5. Mahler 2
6. Brahms 4
7. Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique
8. Brahms Symphony 1
9. Tchaikovsky 6
10. Mahler 3
11 Beethoven 5
12 Brahms 3
13 Bruckner 8
14 Sibelius 7
15 Mozart 40
16 Beethoven 7
17 Shostakovich 5
18 Brahms 2
19 Beethoven 6
20 Bruckner 7

It doesn't seem a bad list to me. My favourite Shostakovich symphonies are 7 and 14. They'd replace Shost 6 and Brahms 3 for me, I think. Not a huge Sibelius fan, but I haven't listened for years, so time to revisit. There should be at least one Haydn in there, and maybe a Mendelssohn or Schumann is worthy of consideration. The conductors are a bit light on 20th century works.

PS: Oh my goodness. Just realised Schubert's Great C major is not there. That's definitely in, for me.

[Belle]

I don't think Mahler or Bruckner belong in any "Top 12", or Tchaikovsky for that matter. I agree with Dr. John McWhorter that Bruckner is a 'dense, grandiloquent crawl' - but so is Mahler.
Mahler and Bruckner's compositions were more disquisition than tightly-controlled, coherent musical 'essay' - in my opinion. How many times have I tried and just given up through sheer boredom and 'where is this going' sentiments??!!

If you want tightly controlled musical coherence go no further than Beethoven and his contemporaries and followers (eg. Brahms). Berlioz belonged to the disquisition characteristic of the "I'm going to compose myself into a corner" school. But, by god, the man could orchestrate!!!

The reason I believe this is simple: I've written a lot of very long essays and I've often painted myself into a corner with them, which has often resulted in endless re-writing, editing and disappointment. This is exactly how I feel when I listen to the aforesaid composers. Ideas which simply got out of control but which had potential to begin with.

Another reason they appeal to people, I believe, is that we've grown fond of BIG. Everything. Venues, jets, aircraft carriers, megaplexes, TV screens, cars, noise, Imax, CGI 'crowds' in epic film, etc. The fondness for BIGness is the zeitgeist. It's no different for classical music.

For me, less is more. Sue so me!!

[Lance]

Well Belle, it took me some time to appreciate Gustav Mahler's work [from my earliest days of listening so long ago] and I am attracted to his first three symphonies, his lieder, and the song cycles. It took me much loooooonger to get to Bruckner (and I'm still not there), and I still can't take too much of him (being the Classicist/Romanticist that I am at heart), but I do rather enjoy his Fifth Symphony. I included Mahler on my List of 12 because I thought those performances to be extraordinary even though there are others that may transcend in some ways outside of sonics. Music does speak to people in various ways and when it hits you, you know and feel it. I would have included Felix Mendelssohn on that list but stuck to just 12 entries.

[Belle]

Well Belle, it took me some time to appreciate Gustav Mahler's work [from my earliest days of listening so long ago] and I am attracted to his first three symphonies, his lieder, and the song cycles. It took me much loooooonger to get to Bruckner (and I'm still not there), and I still can't take too much of him (being the Classicist/Romanticist that I am at heart), but I do rather enjoy his Fifth Symphony. I included Mahler on my List of 12 because I thought those performances to be extraordinary even though there are others that may transcend in some ways outside of sonics. Music does speak to people in various ways and when it hits you, you know and feel it. I would have included Felix Mendelssohn on that list but stuck to just 12 entries.

I quite understand. Everybody has their individual tastes and, as you say, when it hits you....pow! I was merely explaining my reasoning behind my antipathy as I think we do need sound reasons behind our likes and dislikes if we're really fair dinkum - as we say in Australia.

[david johnson]

I tend to enjoy these regardless of who does them. I will list some versions I really dig.
Mendelssohn 4
Beethoven 3
" 9 (Friscay)
Mahler 1
" 2 (Klemperer)
Tchaikovsky 4
Copland 3 (Bernstein/NYP)
Schubert 8
Bruckner (3/4/6/8/9) pick one LOL
Ives 2 (Bernstein/NYPO)
Brahms 1
I give up, I can't pick worth a flip. I mostly like it all I couldn't even get to Shostakovtich.

[Ricordanza]

I've noticed that (so far) no one has listed Beethoven IX.

I haven't responded because I'm not inclined to reduce my list of favorite symphonies to 12. But if I did go to the trouble of producing such a list, Beethoven's Ninth would certainly be there, perhaps at the top of the list.

[maestrob]

Here are the top 20 according to the 2016 BBC Music Magazine survey of 151 conductors.

1. Beethoven 3
2. Beethoven 9
3. Mozart 41
4. Mahler 9
5. Mahler 2
6. Brahms 4
7. Berlioz Symphonie Fantastique
8. Brahms Symphony 1
9. Tchaikovsky 6
10. Mahler 3
11 Beethoven 5
12 Brahms 3
13 Bruckner 8
14 Sibelius 7
15 Mozart 40
16 Beethoven 7
17 Shostakovich 5
18 Brahms 2
19 Beethoven 6
20 Bruckner 7

It doesn't seem a bad list to me. My favourite Shostakovich symphonies are 7 and 14. They'd replace Shost 6 and Brahms 3 for me, I think. Not a huge Sibelius fan, but I haven't listened for years, so time to revisit. There should be at least one Haydn in there, and maybe a Mendelssohn or Schumann is worthy of consideration. The conductors are a bit light on 20th century works.

PS: Oh my goodness. Just realised Schubert's Great C major is not there. That's definitely in, for me.

Barney, I remember when that list was published recently. It's really difficult to limit oneself to just twelve titles, for sure, and I empathize with the authors about making it a top 20 list. As for Schubert, his Ninth is definitely a fine work, but imagine if he had lived another 20 years, what glorious symphonies he could have produced given the promise of his chamber and solo piano music. I see that symphony as his first great one, and the others (1-6) as youth symphonies. To bad he never finished #8, which is of a more mature character.

[barney]

Yes, Brian, I agree. I love symphony 5, which first attracted me to classical music, but it is not a great symphony in the sense you mean.
The fact is, you could make it the top 100 symphonies and I'd still be dithering about 95-105.

[jserraglio]

Top 10 :: For me, Bruckner is the greatest of them all. Followed very closely by Haydn & Beethoven, and at a greater distance by Mozart and the other usual suspects.

[maestrob]

Two more additions to my own personal favorite symphonies....

Walton I
Rachmaninoff II (but only recordings with the cuts that Ormandy worked on with the composer)

[THEHORN]

I love so many symphonies , or at least like them it's impossible for me to choose a "top dozen " list . This may not be relevant to the question , but here is my list of. some. symphonies which are undeservedly neglected in the concert hall. but which can. fortunately be heard on CD

In no particular order : Mily Balakirev , symphony no 1 . Paul Dukas : symphony in C major . Wilhelm Stenhammar : Symphonies 1 and 2 . Sergei Taneyev : Symphony no 4 in C minor . Dvorak : first six symphonies out of nine . Hindemith : Symphony in E flat major . Franz Berwald : all four symphonies . Nilolai Myaskovsky: symphonies 6 and 8 . Prokofiev : symphonies 2,4, 6 . Hans Pfitzner : symphony in C major . Max Bruch : symphonies 1,2,3 . Gheorghe Enescu : symphonies 1,2 . Weber : symphonies , 2 . Sir Michael Tippett : symphonies1 ,2,3,4. Albert Roussel : symphonies 2, 4 . Zdenek Fibich : symphonies 1,2,3 . Alexander Glazunov : symphonies 2,5, 7. Arnold Bax : symphonies 1-7 . Havergal Brian : symphony no 1, "Gothic ". Johan Svendsen : symphonies 1,2 .Erich Wolfgang Korngold : symphony in F sharp .

Most orchestras. never perform these , but I'm convinced audiences would love them if they just got a chance to hear them live .

[Rach3]

Most orchestras. never perform these , but I'm convinced audiences would love them if they just got a chance to hear them live .

I am not a big symphonist, have not heard most of those you list, but thus appreciate your suggestions,and agree with you as to Dvorak Nos.4,5,6 and Prokofieff No.2.