Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Discuss whatever you want here ... movies, books, recipes, politics, beer, wine, TV ... everything except classical music.

Moderators: Lance, Corlyss_D

SaulChanukah

Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by SaulChanukah » Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:42 pm

It voted always against Israel, and doesn’t mind if the Arabs will destroy Israel. All throughout its record, Haiti always voted against the Jewish State.

Now, why should Israel and the Jewish people support those who work against them and those who support their enemies?

Can anyone give me one good reason?

Don't worry, I'll do the Job of answering.

Because we understand that these people in Haiti no matter how not deserving they are of our help, are still in a need of help, and we are going to help them anyways.

Why Israel gives humanitarian aid whether or not it is appreciated or acknowledged.

by Rabbi Benjamin Blech

It happened again in Haiti.

An earthquake struck leaving horrible devastation and death in its wake. Current estimates project more than 70,000 victims. In its aftermath, one result is an unfortunate possibility, the other a verifiable certainty.

The first is a wry observation by Amos Oz following the recent earthquake in Iran: “It is crystal clear to me,” he wrote, “that if Arabs put down a draft resolution blaming Israel for the recent earthquake in Iran it would probably have a majority, the U.S. would veto it and Britain and France would abstain.”

Having served as the scapegoats of history, Jews are no longer amazed when they are blamed for almost any misfortune, including even natural disasters. But what often escapes recognition is the other event that invariably follows a tragedy on the scale of a tsunami or an earthquake, be it anywhere on earth: the certainty that the state of Israel will reach out to give aid and assistance, to stretch out its hands in humanitarian spirit whether this help is appreciated or even acknowledged.

Sure enough the Israeli newspapers reported the story: “Israel sends aid as Haiti braces for massive death toll in quake. The Israeli Foreign Ministry on Wednesday prepared a rescue team for departure to the disaster-stricken country. The rescue team includes elite army corps engineers and medical corps ready to deploy field hospital, the Israeli consulate in New York reported.”

It is a response that deserves some explanation. To play devil’s advocate for a moment, why wouldn’t it be reasonable for Israel not to become involved with the justification that its own myriad problems deserve priority? Why must Israel take on the problems of others when there are so many needs at home that require attention and funds? What is the proper moral and ethical imperative for the Jewish people in terms of its relationships with “the others,” the very same nations who so often have turned their backs on Jews and their concerns throughout the centuries?

The answer for us must come from the Torah. And it is in the Torah, as our commentators point out, that God makes clear the standards by which He judges our attempts to seek spiritual perfection.

Three Degrees of Care

The man who achieved greatness more than any other was Moses. It was he who was given a call at the burning bush to lead the Jews out of Egypt and to bring them to Sinai to receive God’s message to mankind. What was it that God saw in him to make him worthy of this mission? There are only three short stories recorded in the Bible about Moses before we learn of his selection. They all share one powerful theme. In each of them, Moses did not sit by passively in the presence of evil. He did not justify inaction with the claim that it was none of his business. He intervened and did whatever he could because he intuitively understood that all men are responsible one for another.

The three stories are well known. In the first, Moses saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew to death and he killed him before the Egyptian could murder his innocent victim. In the second story, Moses saw two Hebrews fighting with each other and he broke up the quarrel. In the third story, after he had fled to Midian, he was upset to see shepherds taking advantage of some Midianite maidens who had sought water for their flock and he again intervened to save the young girls from these bullies.

The defining characteristic of greatness: the willingness to intercede when witness to the difficulties faced by others.
These are the only three things the Torah sees fit to record about the life of the man divinely chosen for greatness. In Jewish law a threefold repetition assures constancy of character. Three times Moses demonstrated the one trait more than any other that God used as the defining characteristic of greatness and leadership — the willingness to intercede when witness to the difficulties faced by others.

So much for a simple understanding of the story. On a far deeper level however it did not escape the attention of the rabbis that these three stories represented a sequence with a powerful theological message. In an ascending order of difficulty, the stories conveyed three levels of our understanding of the principle that we are all responsible one for another.

The first story called for a response when Moses witnessed an Egyptian beating a Hebrew. The victim was a fellow brother; the assailant a self-proclaimed enemy. It is the easiest kind of incident to elicit an active response. In modern terms it would be the equivalent of a Jew witnessing an anti-Semite, a Nazi or a member of Hamas about to slaughter a fellow Jew. Intervention is almost assured. Who could sit by and watch an innocent murdered by an avowed enemy of one’s own people?

In the second story, the identity of the combatants changed. It was now Jew versus Jew. Anti-Semitism no longer played a role. The test for Moses was to see whether he would be equally incensed and moved to action if there was no outsider involved. And Moses was up to the task. He passed this test as well.

The most difficult one yet awaited him. He was now in a foreign land. Neither the offending bullies nor the harassed maidens had any relationship to him. He knew not the victims or the assailants. Simply put, what was happening before him had no personal connection to his life — other than the fact that fellow human beings were in danger and he was in a position to help. The third and final test was the one that we are faced with every time a situation arises when it is not our family, our people or our nation is threatened but only other human beings with whom we share but one thing — our common creation in the image of God.

It was because Moses passed this final test of his character that he became our greatest hero. It is with this characteristic that he must also serve as our ultimate role model.

I take great pride in our people whenever we respond to the challenges of anti-Semitism around the globe. I think it is admirable as well when Jews with different religious, political and communal views learn to live together in harmony and do not ignore attacks on each others’ rights and privileges. But what thrills me more than anything else is when I learn that inevitably one of the very first nations to respond to the human needs of a disaster, such as an earthquake in Haiti, is the State of Israel. That is what reassures me that we have never lost that trait which made Moses so beloved to God — and which enables us to continue to fulfill our mission of tikkun olam, repairing the world.

Here is contact information for some of the better known organizations involved in the relief effort.

American Red Cross National Headquarters
2025 E Street, NW
Washington, DC 20006
http://www.Redcross.org

AmeriCares
88 Hamilton Ave.
Stamford, CT USA 06902
http://www.Americares.org

American Jewish World Service
45 West 36th Street, 11th floor
New York, NY 10018-7904
http://www.AJWS.org

IcedNote
Posts: 2963
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:24 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by IcedNote » Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:49 pm

Good for Haiti.

-G
Harakiried composer reincarnated as a nonprofit development guy.

MarkC
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:52 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by MarkC » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:43 pm

Is that so, Saul? I didn't know, one way or the other.

It makes it all-the-more admirable that Israel is lending a big hand, and I would wonder if it will affect Haiti's stances in the future.

By the way........important relevant question: Some people might think this doesn't matter, but IMO to evaluate the significance of Haiti's past votes for or against Israel, we'd have to know how it compares with the voting patterns of other countries. I mean, how many countries besides the U.S. ever support israel anyway?

I don't know the answer to that either, but I never thought it was very many. And I would actually be interested in seeing such a "stat." I would guess that with the possible exception of the U.K. and maybe maybe Canada (and maybe Germany?), not more than a handful of countries would score too high. When looking at something like this, the frame of reference matters.

SaulChanukah

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by SaulChanukah » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:54 pm

MarkC wrote:Is that so, Saul? I didn't know, one way or the other.

It makes it all-the-more admirable that Israel is lending a big hand, and I would wonder if it will affect Haiti's stances in the future.

By the way........important relevant question: Some people might think this doesn't matter, but IMO to evaluate the significance of Haiti's past votes for or against Israel, we'd have to know how it compares with the voting patterns of other countries. I mean, how many countries besides the U.S. ever support israel anyway?

I don't know the answer to that either, but I never thought it was very many. And I would actually be interested in seeing such a "stat." I would guess that with the possible exception of the U.K. and maybe maybe Canada (and maybe Germany?), not more than a handful of countries would score too high. When looking at something like this, the frame of reference matters.
About the wicked Goldstone Report

Amnesty.org


"114 states voted in favour, 18 voted against and 44 abstained. The USA and 7 European Union (EU) states voted against the resolution while Russia abstained.

"We deeply regret that the USA and the Czech Republic, Germany, Hungary, Italy, the Netherlands, Poland and Slovakia voted against the resolution and failed to support the need for accountability, justice and human rights that are so vital for victims of abuses in this conflict," said Terlingen.

So you have a handful of European countires and the U.S who support Israel, and then you have the UK and France who cant pick sides, they abstained ,when would they ever learn?

MarkC
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:52 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by MarkC » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:56 pm

Thanks for that -- but it doesn't give the perspective we'd need for evaluating what you said in the title about Haiti.

Maybe the info isn't readily available anywhere. As I said, I have no idea what the facts would be.

Ralph
Dittersdorf Specialist & CMG NY Host
Posts: 20996
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:54 am
Location: Paradise on Earth, New York, NY

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by Ralph » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:57 pm

Haiti is one of the poorest nations on the face of the Earth and the illiteracy rate is staggering. It has not been and is not a democracy and few Haitians, struggling to daily survive, before the earthquake, have either knowledge of or interest in world affairs.

So, yes, the Haitian representative at the U.N. votes against Israel. A fact. But in this case, at this time bringing this up while the death toll is unknown, the suffering and devastation overwhelming, the future bleak is churlish.
Image

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

Albert Einstein

SaulChanukah

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by SaulChanukah » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:09 pm

Ralph wrote:Haiti is one of the poorest nations on the face of the Earth and the illiteracy rate is staggering. It has not been and is not a democracy and few Haitians, struggling to daily survive, before the earthquake, have either knowledge of or interest in world affairs.

So, yes, the Haitian representative at the U.N. votes against Israel. A fact. But in this case, at this time bringing this up while the death toll is unknown, the suffering and devastation overwhelming, the future bleak is churlish.
And one the poorest nations in the world has a voting voice and power to tip the scale for Israel for better or for worse, it could mean life or death for the Jewish people living in Israel.

But the point is made, true they don't deserve our help because when we were surrounded by wolves they joined in with the rascals, but we are helping them anyways, showing the Jewish good nature and compassion, giving a helping hand to those who tried to harm us, and knowing full well, that the world wont remember or say good words about us, as it has always been the case.
Last edited by SaulChanukah on Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Corlyss_D
Site Administrator
Posts: 27663
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:25 am
Location: The Great State of Utah
Contact:

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by Corlyss_D » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:12 pm

Ralph wrote: But in this case, at this time bringing this up *** is churlish.
I agree. It is nasty, petty, cold-hearted, and mean-spirited if not vicious. It does neither him nor Israel's generosity much honor to even bring it up. In the greater scheme of international affairs, what difference could Haiti's vote matter in a UN pitched decisively against Israel anyway?
Saul wrote:And one the poorest nation in the world has a voting voice and power to tip the scale for Israel for better or for worse, it could mean life or death for the Jewish people living in Israel.
You're delusional and ought to quit digging yourself into this hole.
Corlyss
Contessa d'EM, a carbon-based life form

SaulChanukah

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by SaulChanukah » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:15 pm

Corlyss_D wrote:
Ralph wrote: But in this case, at this time bringing this up *** is churlish.
I agree. It is nasty, petty, cold-hearted, and mean-spirited if not vicious. It does neither him nor Israel's generosity much honor to even bring it up. In the greater scheme of international affairs, what difference could Haiti's vote matter in a UN pitched decisively against Israel anyway?
Saul wrote:And one the poorest nation in the world has a voting voice and power to tip the scale for Israel for better or for worse, it could mean life or death for the Jewish people living in Israel.
You're delusional and ought to quit digging yourself into this hole.
Thank you Corlyss, for really telling me how you feel.

Why should we help them?

The Jewish people face many challenges, there are more then half a million Jews living in Israel below poverty level. Surrounded by many enemies who seek our destruction. Surely we could use the extra resources for our people instead of sending it to those who vote in with Iran and the rest of the Arab world?

There is nothing cold hearted about it, I am for helping them, and as the Rabbi said we should help them, and we did help them. But I believe that the truth must be told.

We give money to our enemies, we always come out bad from it , and the world forgets we even did something.

Oh , so the argument is that we are "Jews" and we should help them anyways and just shut up?

We are helping but I want everyone to know that we are aware of the situation, and how no one appreciates what we do and only take advantage of us. That was the whole point of the Article the Rabbi wrote down.
Last edited by SaulChanukah on Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

living_stradivarius
Posts: 6721
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:41 pm
Location: Minnesnowta
Contact:

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by living_stradivarius » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:17 pm

Ralph wrote:Haiti is one of the poorest nations on the face of the Earth and the illiteracy rate is staggering. It has not been and is not a democracy and few Haitians, struggling to daily survive, before the earthquake, have either knowledge of or interest in world affairs.

So, yes, the Haitian representative at the U.N. votes against Israel. A fact. But in this case, at this time bringing this up while the death toll is unknown, the suffering and devastation overwhelming, the future bleak is churlish.
Agreed. Also to put things into perspective, note the following from the Jpost article about Israeli aid to Haiti. This thread unfortunately places scrutiny on Israel's act of generosity and selflessness. We are forced to ask whether things would have turned out differently had no Jews been living in Haiti:
Meanwhile, the Foreign Ministry made contact with four Israelis known to reside on the island.
The four Israelis who were feared lost in the earthquake were Sharona Elsaieh, daughter of Abie Nathan, the well-known peace activist who passed away in 2008, Bridget Pierre Omashi and her son Segev David Omashi, age nine, and another woman whose identity has yet to be released by the Foreign Ministry.
The fate of another handful of Jews who make up the Haitian Jewish community remained uncertain Wednesday night due to the communication difficulties.
Last edited by living_stradivarius on Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

MarkC
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:52 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by MarkC » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:17 pm

Corlyss, this is interesting.
While I wouldn't put this nearly as strongly as you did, what you just said is exactly what I felt about that other thread. You didn't see it, but it was there. And I agree that it's here too -- but not nearly to the extent that you and Ralph do. Things such as this are subjective, and different people may perceive and feel them to differing degrees, legitimately so.
Last edited by MarkC on Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Corlyss_D
Site Administrator
Posts: 27663
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:25 am
Location: The Great State of Utah
Contact:

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by Corlyss_D » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:17 pm

SaulChanukah wrote:
Thank you Corlyss, for really telling me how you feel.
:D How long have we known each other, Saul? I always tell you how I feel, don't I? :wink:
Corlyss
Contessa d'EM, a carbon-based life form

Corlyss_D
Site Administrator
Posts: 27663
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:25 am
Location: The Great State of Utah
Contact:

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by Corlyss_D » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:19 pm

MarkC wrote:While I wouldn't put this nearly as strongly as you did, what you just said is exactly what I felt about that other thread.
Stop digging up bones, Mark.
You didn't see it, but it was there.


You're making this up, and it's not to your credit either.
Corlyss
Contessa d'EM, a carbon-based life form

MarkC
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:52 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by MarkC » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:21 pm

Corlyss, the similarity to the other thread is there, and was worthy of note.

Corlyss_D
Site Administrator
Posts: 27663
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:25 am
Location: The Great State of Utah
Contact:

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by Corlyss_D » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:23 pm

MarkC wrote:Corlyss, the similarity to the other thread is there, and was worthy of note.
My post to you was civil. Your reply was not.
"I don't agree" does not mean "I don't understand what you say." So quit repeating yourself.
Corlyss
Contessa d'EM, a carbon-based life form

MarkC
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:52 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by MarkC » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:26 pm

BTW Corlyss, please see my edit. I took out that 2nd line (which wasn't fair).

living_stradivarius
Posts: 6721
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:41 pm
Location: Minnesnowta
Contact:

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by living_stradivarius » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:28 pm

MarkC wrote:BTW Corlyss, please see my edit. I took out that 2nd line (which wasn't fair).
Plz take it outside folks (outside = PM). Thanks :) I'll delete this post shortly.
[EDIT: oh I can't delete it because ppl have posted below... sorry]
Last edited by living_stradivarius on Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image

SaulChanukah

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by SaulChanukah » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:30 pm

Corlyss_D wrote:
SaulChanukah wrote:
Thank you Corlyss, for really telling me how you feel.
:D How long have we known each other, Saul? I always tell you how I feel, don't I? :wink:
I hope that you have demonstrated your perfect sanity in the eyes of those members who always ridicule you for sticking up for me, at my expanse.

You see everybody? Corlyss is normal after all she called Saul 'delusional'. Not what I would call fair play or a benevolent approach to argument, but that's what she chose to do.

You have deeply disappointed me, Corlyss. You yourself said that calling each other names here is not permitted, but calling others outside the site names is perfectly permitted.

There is no better example then a good teacher...

MarkC
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:52 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by MarkC » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:36 pm

Saul, we have something in common. We've both been insulted by her. :lol:

As I indicated, I had some question about this thread. But 'delusional' was more than uncalled for.

SaulChanukah

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by SaulChanukah » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:39 pm

MarkC wrote:Saul, we have something in common. We've both been insulted by her. :lol:
Yes, but according to her, you don't see flying cows at night, and that’s a great plus!

But I understand that she needed that boost, everyone gaining up on her, surely turning Saul into a 'Delusional being' would ease some of that pressure off her back.

Corlyss_D
Site Administrator
Posts: 27663
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:25 am
Location: The Great State of Utah
Contact:

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by Corlyss_D » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:40 pm

If Saul honestly thinks Haiti's vote for or against Israel would have made any difference in any vote taken in the UNGA, he's delusional. Israel doesn't lose those votes by 1. I am not commenting on anything else.
Corlyss
Contessa d'EM, a carbon-based life form

MarkC
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:52 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by MarkC » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:44 pm

Look. :lol:

There's an internal contradiction there, Corlyss.

In saying "delusional," you're talking what Saul said literally.

Way too literally, in my opinion.

Yet, if you want to be so literal about things, you're wrong, because that wouldn't be "delusional" in the literal sense.

If you want to be literal, at least be consistent. :D

Chalkperson
Disposable Income Specialist
Posts: 17647
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:19 pm
Location: New York City
Contact:

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by Chalkperson » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:48 pm

living_stradivarius wrote:
MarkC wrote:BTW Corlyss, please see my edit. I took out that 2nd line (which wasn't fair).
Plz take it outside folks (outside = PM). Thanks :) I'll delete this post shortly.
He won't turn on his PM Button...he's special... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sent via Twitter by @chalkperson

MarkC
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:52 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by MarkC » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:52 pm

(Take it outside, Chalkie.) :lol:

SaulChanukah

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by SaulChanukah » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:52 pm

Corlyss_D wrote:If Saul honestly thinks Haiti's vote for or against Israel would have made any difference in any vote taken in the UNGA, he's delusional. Israel doesn't lose those votes by 1. I am not commenting on anything else.
Allow me my dear Corlyss to explain what I meant:

Its called "Intention" and "Motivation". You don't have to kill me in order for me to have negative feelings about you, its enough if you stick with those who say they want to murder me, for me to understand that your don't have good intentions towards me.

Probably Haiti's vote wont count to destroy Israel, because of American Veto, that's fine, but their voting with our enemies is bad as of itself.

And I ask very rightly, why does Israel have to help a country who always votes against her, not withstanding the fact that Israel itself has tremendous troubles and economic hardships, with hundreds of thousands of its own citizens living below the poverty level? Is this not a legitimate question? Can anyone give me an answer besides what the Rabbi said?

The Rabbi answered the question, that we Jews have to help no matter what, even if the other side isn’t deserving, because that's the Jewish way, and I am for helping Haiti, and I said that very clearly. And I wish this earth quack had never happened and I pray to god that the survivors will be found and rescued. But since I like to know the things as they are, to look at the truth of the matter, I pointed out this article to show that many times the Jews have helped even those who were hostile against us, and we never got any appreciation for it, and we are still hunted in the world (U.N) like some criminals. And I also ask, why is that SO?

Why nobody appreciates the work that Israel does? It sent a whole hospital there you know, many elite units to rescue and help and donated so much money. Jewish communities all around the world donated millions of dollars to help.

Does anyone care? Does any one hear?

Does Amnesty international care, does Goldstone care?

Does CNN care?

Does the U.N care?

No, and that's painful.
Last edited by SaulChanukah on Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Chalkperson
Disposable Income Specialist
Posts: 17647
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:19 pm
Location: New York City
Contact:

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by Chalkperson » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:54 pm

MarkC wrote:(Take it outside, Chalkie.) :lol:
How many Members have to ask you to turn the PM Button on, we'll be in double figures soon...
Sent via Twitter by @chalkperson

MarkC
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:52 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by MarkC » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:55 pm

Saul -- speaking as a psychiatrist :mrgreen: I have to say that you just demonstrated clearly that in any literal sense, you were not delusional.

This raises an interesting question. :lol:

Is it not correct that someone who takes things literally should not be non-literal oneself?
Discuss amongst yourselves. :D

living_stradivarius
Posts: 6721
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:41 pm
Location: Minnesnowta
Contact:

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by living_stradivarius » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:56 pm

Israel's aid to Haiti won't save Gaza
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1143313.html
By Akiva Eldar

Tags: Gaza, Israel News

Who said we are shut up inside our Tel Aviv bubble? How many small nations surrounded by enemies set up field hospitals on the other side of the world? Give us an earthquake in Haiti, a tsunami in Thailand or a terror attack in Kenya, and the IDF Spokesman's Office will triumph. A cargo plane can always be found to fly in military journalists to report on our fine young men from the Home Front Command.

Everyone is truly doing a wonderful job: the rescuers, searching for survivors; the physicians, saving lives; and the reporters, too, who are rightfully patting them all on the back. After Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon became the face we show the world, the entire international community can now see Israel's good side.

But the remarkable identification with the victims of the terrible tragedy in distant Haiti only underscores the indifference to the ongoing suffering of the people of Gaza. Only a little more than an hour's drive from the offices of Israel's major newspapers, 1.5 million people have been besieged on a desert island for two and a half years. Who cares that 80 percent of the men, women and children living in such proximity to us have fallen under the poverty line? How many Israelis know that half of all Gazans are dependent on charity, that Operation Cast Lead created hundreds of amputees, that raw sewage flows from the streets into the sea?

The Israeli newspaper reader knows about the baby pulled from the wreckage in Port-au-Prince. Few have heard about the infants who sleep in the ruins of their families' homes in Gaza. The Israel Defense Forces prohibition of reporters entering the Gaza Strip is an excellent excuse for burying our heads in the sand of Tel Aviv's beaches; on a good day, the sobering reports compiled by human rights organizations such as B'Tselem, Gisha - Legal Center for Freedom of Movement, and Physicians for Human Rights-Israel on the situation in Gaza are pushed to the newspapers' back pages. To get an idea of what life is like in the world's largest prison, one must forgo "Big Brother" and switch to one of the foreign networks.

The disaster in Haiti is a natural one; the one in Gaza is the unproud handiwork of man. Our handiwork. The IDF does not send cargo planes stuffed with medicines and medical equipment to Gaza. The missiles that Israel Air Force combat aircraft fired there a year ago hit nearly 60,000 homes and factories, turning 3,500 of them into rubble. Since then, 10,000 people have been living without running water, 40,000 without electricity. Ninety-seven percent of Gaza's factories are idle due to Israeli government restrictions on the import of raw materials for industry. Soon it will be one year since the international community pledged, at the emergency conference in Sharm el-Sheikh, to donate $4.5 billion for Gaza's reconstruction. Israel's ban on bringing in building materials is causing that money to lose its value.

A few days before Israeli physicians rushed to save the lives of injured Haitians, the authorities at the Erez checkpoint prevented 17 people from passing through in order to get to a Ramallah hospital for urgent corneal transplant surgery. Perhaps they voted for Hamas. At the same time that Israeli psychologists are treating Haiti's orphans with devotion, Israeli inspectors are making sure no one is attempting to plant a doll, a notebook or a bar of chocolate in a container bringing essential goods into Gaza. So what if the Goldstone Commission demanded that Israel lift the blockade on the Strip and end the collective punishment of its inhabitants? Only those who hate Israel could use frontier justice against the first country to set up a field hospital in Haiti.

True, Haiti's militias are not firing rockets at Israel. But the siege on Gaza has not stopped the Qassams from coming. The prohibition of cilantro, vinegar and ginger being brought into the Strip since June 2007 was intended to expedite the release of Gilad Shalit and facilitate the fall of the Hamas regime. As everyone knows, even though neither mission has been particularly successful, and despite international criticism, Israel continues to keep the gates of Gaza locked. Even the images of our excellent doctors in Haiti cannot blur our ugly face in the Strip.

--------------------

Any response to this article should address the specific points laid out, emphasis on the deplorable conditions esp. regarding water supply. Other responses will simply be ignored.
Last edited by living_stradivarius on Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
Image

MarkC
Posts: 1630
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:52 pm
Location: New York, NY

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by MarkC » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:57 pm

Chalkperson wrote:
MarkC wrote:(Take it outside, Chalkie.) :lol:
How many Members have to ask you to turn the PM Button on, we'll be in double figures soon...
Please -- I would suggest you discuss that matter via PM. :mrgreen:

Chalkperson
Disposable Income Specialist
Posts: 17647
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:19 pm
Location: New York City
Contact:

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by Chalkperson » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:58 pm

Does any other Country feel the need to say what you do (bringing Politics into it) about their Donation of Aid, when the entire Planet knows that it is the right thing to do...
Sent via Twitter by @chalkperson

SaulChanukah

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by SaulChanukah » Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:00 am

living_stradivarius wrote:Israel's aid to Haiti won't save Gaza
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1143313.html
By Akiva Eldar

Tags: Gaza, Israel News

Who said we are shut up inside our Tel Aviv bubble? How many small nations surrounded by enemies set up field hospitals on the other side of the world? Give us an earthquake in Haiti, a tsunami in Thailand or a terror attack in Kenya, and the IDF Spokesman's Office will triumph. A cargo plane can always be found to fly in military journalists to report on our fine young men from the Home Front Command.

Everyone is truly doing a wonderful job: the rescuers, searching for survivors; the physicians, saving lives; and the reporters, too, who are rightfully patting them all on the back. After Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon became the face we show the world, the entire international community can now see Israel's good side.

But the remarkable identification with the victims of the terrible tragedy in distant Haiti only underscores the indifference to the ongoing suffering of the people of Gaza. Only a little more than an hour's drive from the offices of Israel's major newspapers, 1.5 million people have been besieged on a desert island for two and a half years. Who cares that 80 percent of the men, women and children living in such proximity to us have fallen under the poverty line? How many Israelis know that half of all Gazans are dependent on charity, that Operation Cast Lead created hundreds of amputees, that raw sewage flows from the streets into the sea?
Advertisement

The Israeli newspaper reader knows about the baby pulled from the wreckage in Port-au-Prince. Few have heard about the infants who sleep in the ruins of their families' homes in Gaza. The Israel Defense Forces prohibition of reporters entering the Gaza Strip is an excellent excuse for burying our heads in the sand of Tel Aviv's beaches; on a good day, the sobering reports compiled by human rights organizations such as B'Tselem, Gisha - Legal Center for Freedom of Movement, and Physicians for Human Rights-Israel on the situation in Gaza are pushed to the newspapers' back pages. To get an idea of what life is like in the world's largest prison, one must forgo "Big Brother" and switch to one of the foreign networks.

The disaster in Haiti is a natural one; the one in Gaza is the unproud handiwork of man. Our handiwork. The IDF does not send cargo planes stuffed with medicines and medical equipment to Gaza. The missiles that Israel Air Force combat aircraft fired there a year ago hit nearly 60,000 homes and factories, turning 3,500 of them into rubble. Since then, 10,000 people have been living without running water, 40,000 without electricity. Ninety-seven percent of Gaza's factories are idle due to Israeli government restrictions on the import of raw materials for industry. Soon it will be one year since the international community pledged, at the emergency conference in Sharm el-Sheikh, to donate $4.5 billion for Gaza's reconstruction. Israel's ban on bringing in building materials is causing that money to lose its value.

A few days before Israeli physicians rushed to save the lives of injured Haitians, the authorities at the Erez checkpoint prevented 17 people from passing through in order to get to a Ramallah hospital for urgent corneal transplant surgery. Perhaps they voted for Hamas. At the same time that Israeli psychologists are treating Haiti's orphans with devotion, Israeli inspectors are making sure no one is attempting to plant a doll, a notebook or a bar of chocolate in a container bringing essential goods into Gaza. So what if the Goldstone Commission demanded that Israel lift the blockade on the Strip and end the collective punishment of its inhabitants? Only those who hate Israel could use frontier justice against the first country to set up a field hospital in Haiti.

True, Haiti's militias are not firing rockets at Israel. But the siege on Gaza has not stopped the Qassams from coming. The prohibition of cilantro, vinegar and ginger being brought into the Strip since June 2007 was intended to expedite the release of Gilad Shalit and facilitate the fall of the Hamas regime. As everyone knows, even though neither mission has been particularly successful, and despite international criticism, Israel continues to keep the gates of Gaza locked. Even the images of our excellent doctors in Haiti cannot blur our ugly face in the Strip.
Akiva Alder the infamous self hating Jew , liberal who will sell his whole county and people just so the Northman will give him a smile.

living_stradivarius
Posts: 6721
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:41 pm
Location: Minnesnowta
Contact:

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by living_stradivarius » Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:33 am

Chalkperson wrote:Does any other Country feel the need to say what you do (bringing Politics into it) about their Donation of Aid, when the entire Planet knows that it is the right thing to do...
Chalkie -- speaking as a "psychiatrist" I have to say that you just demonstrated clearly that this thread is a matter related to having a superiority complex.
Image

pizza
Posts: 5094
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:03 am

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by pizza » Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:45 am

The Prime Minister of Israel agrees with Saul! 8)


PM: Haiti aid 'expression of our heritage'

Jan. 17, 2010
Jpost.com staff and AP , THE JERUSALEM POST

Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu spoke of the "best traditions of the Jewish people" when referring to the help Israeli rescue and medical teams were providing Haiti following last Tuesday's devastating earthquake.

Speaking at the start of Sunday's weekly cabinet meeting, Netanyahu called the quake a "horrific tragedy," saying it was Israel's duty to help the Haitian people.

"What happened there is a large-scale disaster of very great proportions," he said. "The lack of protective measures only deepened the tragedy. I think that it is our obligation, as the State of Israel, as the state of the Jewish people, to mobilize immediately - which we have done."

"As soon as I learned of the dimensions of the disaster, I ordered that a team be dispatched," he continued. "It left with the characteristic speed of the IDF, in coordination with the Foreign Ministry."

He said the defense establishment had sent a team which had begun to work and was already saving lives.

"I think that this is in the best tradition of the Jewish People; this is the true covenant of the State of Israel and the Jewish people," he added, stressing that it followed operations carried out in Kenya and Turkey.

"Despite being a small country, we have responded with a big heart," continued the prime minister. "The fact is, I know, that this was an expression of our Jewish heritage and the Jewish ethic of helping one's fellow man. I hope that the team saves lives and that Haiti succeeds in recovering from this awful tragedy."

Early Sunday, rescuers pulled a dehydrated but otherwise uninjured woman from the ruins of a luxury hotel in the Haitian capital, an event greeted with applause from onlookers witnessing rare good news in a city otherwise filled with corpses, rubble and desperation.

"It's a little miracle," the woman's husband, Reinhard Riedl, said after hearing she was alive in the wreckage. "She's one tough cookie. She is indestructible."

For many, though, the five days since the magnitude-7.0 quake hit have turned into an aching wait for the food, water and medical care slowly making its way from an overwhelmed airport rife with political squabbles. And while aid is reaching the country, growing impatience among the suffering has spawned some violence.

Nobody knows how many died in Tuesday's quake. Haiti's government alone has already recovered 20,000 bodies - not counting those recovered by independent agencies or relatives themselves, Prime Minister Jean-Max Bellerive told The Associated Press.

The Pan American Health Organization now says 50,000 to 100,000 people perished in the quake.

Bellerive said 100,000 would "seem to be the minimum."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? ... 2FShowFull

living_stradivarius
Posts: 6721
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:41 pm
Location: Minnesnowta
Contact:

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by living_stradivarius » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:27 am

pizza wrote: Early Sunday, rescuers pulled a dehydrated but otherwise uninjured woman from the ruins of a luxury hotel in the Haitian capital, an event greeted with applause from onlookers witnessing rare good news in a city otherwise filled with corpses, rubble and desperation.

"It's a little miracle," the woman's husband, Reinhard Riedl, said after hearing she was alive in the wreckage. "She's one tough cookie. She is indestructible."
Point of information: I have yet to see any blacks in Haiti individually featured in the Jpost series on Haiti other than as part of a statistic.
See my previous post in this thread about that. Nadine Cardoso's amazing life story isn't even mentioned in the JPost article and is trumped by the fact that she and her husband share the same heritage as JPost's primary readership. She's not just any other dehydrated woman who survived the quake... She's Jewish, and therefore worth mentioning.

This focus on "related" individuals is a natural habit of media reporters from any nation. Agnes' post from the SMH focuses specifically on Australians in Haiti. Americans have done the same thing in similar instances.

I'll wait for the day people pay treat complete strangers like siblings without the crutch of a shared religion or nationality (or potential to proselytize) before I buy stock in claims to "inherent" and selfless cultural generosity.

Then you have groups treating this whole situation like a race :evil: (which isn't too far from what this thread is approaching) :

Taiwan leads rival China in quake aid to Haiti
18 Jan 2010 07:39:10 GMT
Source: Reuters
TAIPEI/BEIJING, Jan 18 (Reuters) - Taiwan is leading political rival China in aid to quake-stricken Haiti, sending $5 million to help a diplomatic ally that Beijing may one day hope to woo, officials said on Monday.
The rivals have long-competed for international recognition, and Haiti is one of only 23 mostly small, impoverished nations that still has diplomatic relations with Taiwan.
China is pledging a total 30 million yuan ($4.40 million) in aid and on Saturday sent a plane with $2 million in medical supplies, tents and clothing after Tuesday's earthquake ruined the Caribbean nation's capital Port au Prince.
Taiwan has declined to work jointly with China on relief efforts in Haiti, Taiwan's Central News Agency reported.
"As far as I know, no," Shen Zhiliang, deputy director general of the Latin American and Caribbean department of China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, said in a response to a question on whether the two were working together.
"But we hope the rescue teams from both sides can strengthen cooperation, to spread the humanitarian spirit together."
Beijing has claimed sovereignty over self-ruled Taiwan since 1949, when Communist forces won the Chinese civil war, and has vowed to bring Taiwan under its rule, by force if necessary.
The two have long competed for global recognition, sometimes using "chequebook diplomacy" to woo aid-dependent poorer nations. Beijing still seeks to restrict Taiwan's world space, though tension has eased since China-friendly Taiwan President Ma Ying-jeou took office in 2008.
Ma, beset by low opinion poll numbers, may deliver aid personally in a visit later this month to the neighbouring Dominican Republic, a staging ground for rescuers, in a move sure to anger China.
"He's already down in a trough, so anything will pull him up," said Lin Chong-pin, strategic studies professor at Tamkang University in Taipei. "This is not political, it's humanitarian, so the chances for Beijing to block it are small."
Chinese rescuers found the body of the head of United Nations peacekeeping forces in Haiti, where eight Chinese peacekeepers were among those killed when the mission headquarters collapsed.
Taiwan has sent two missions to Haiti, totalling 56 people and two specially trained dogs, its foreign ministry said.
Taiwan's ambassador to Haiti was injured during the quake, and its embassy destroyed.
Central America and the Caribbean are home to many of Taiwan's diplomatic allies, including Honduras, Panama, Nicaragua, Belize, St. Lucia and St. Kitts and Nevis. (Reporting by Ralph Jennings in Taipei and Lucy Hornby in Beijing; Editing by Ben Blanchard Alex Richardson)
Image

david johnson
Posts: 1452
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:04 am
Location: ark/mo

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by david johnson » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:20 am

'Because we understand'

Saul isn't part of the 'we'. He's not Israeli.

dj

pizza
Posts: 5094
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:03 am

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by pizza » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:01 am

living_stradivarius wrote:
pizza wrote: Early Sunday, rescuers pulled a dehydrated but otherwise uninjured woman from the ruins of a luxury hotel in the Haitian capital, an event greeted with applause from onlookers witnessing rare good news in a city otherwise filled with corpses, rubble and desperation.

"It's a little miracle," the woman's husband, Reinhard Riedl, said after hearing she was alive in the wreckage. "She's one tough cookie. She is indestructible."
Point of information: I have yet to see any blacks in Haiti individually featured in the Jpost series on Haiti other than as part of a statistic.
See my previous post in this thread about that. Nadine Cardoso's amazing life story isn't even mentioned in the JPost article and is trumped by the fact that she and her husband share the same heritage as JPost's primary readership. She's not just any other dehydrated woman who survived the quake... She's Jewish, and therefore worth mentioning.

This focus on "related" individuals is a natural habit of media reporters from any nation. Agnes' post from the SMH focuses specifically on Australians in Haiti. Americans have done the same thing in similar instances.

I'll wait for the day people pay treat complete strangers like siblings without the crutch of a shared religion or nationality (or potential to proselytize) before I buy stock in claims to "inherent" and selfless cultural generosity.
It's doubtful that your cynicism is shared by any of the blacks who were rescued by the Israeli team.

living_stradivarius
Posts: 6721
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:41 pm
Location: Minnesnowta
Contact:

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by living_stradivarius » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:10 am

pizza wrote:It's doubtful that your cynicism is shared by any of the blacks who were rescued by the Israeli team.
Who still remain nameless in the eyes of Jpost, where my cynicism is directed. And yes, they would be cynical if they were made aware of the theme of this thread.
Image

pizza
Posts: 5094
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:03 am

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by pizza » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:40 am

living_stradivarius wrote:
pizza wrote:It's doubtful that your cynicism is shared by any of the blacks who were rescued by the Israeli team.
Who still remain nameless in the eyes of Jpost, where my cynicism is directed.
If it will ease your acute cynicisim in any way, see if you can find the names you're looking for in the New York Times. And if you can, be sure to determine whether they're all blacks. After all, you don't want a non-black Jew or an Oriental slipping in by mistake, do you?

living_stradivarius
Posts: 6721
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:41 pm
Location: Minnesnowta
Contact:

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by living_stradivarius » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:51 am

pizza wrote:
living_stradivarius wrote:
pizza wrote:It's doubtful that your cynicism is shared by any of the blacks who were rescued by the Israeli team.
Who still remain nameless in the eyes of Jpost, where my cynicism is directed.
If it will ease your acute cynicisim in any way, see if you can find the names you're looking for in the New York Times. And if you can, be sure to determine whether they're all blacks.
Even with my caveat about American reporting above, we see better reporting by the NYT, hands down:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/18/world ... ke.html?hp
pizza wrote:After all, you don't want a non-black Jew or an Oriental slipping in by mistake, do you?
If anyone's concerned about who slips through a filter, it's JPost and the proponents of this thread topic.
Image

pizza
Posts: 5094
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:03 am

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by pizza » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:10 am

living_stradivarius wrote:
pizza wrote:
living_stradivarius wrote:
pizza wrote:It's doubtful that your cynicism is shared by any of the blacks who were rescued by the Israeli team.
Who still remain nameless in the eyes of Jpost, where my cynicism is directed.
If it will ease your acute cynicisim in any way, see if you can find the names you're looking for in the New York Times. And if you can, be sure to determine whether they're all blacks.
Better reporting by the NYT, hands down:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/18/world ... ke.html?hp
If JPost were able to field 6 reporters at a time in Haiti, I'm sure their coverage would be equally broad.
living_stradivarius wrote:
pizza wrote:After all, you don't want a non-black Jew or an Oriental slipping in by mistake, do you?
If anyone's concerned about who slips through a filter, it's JPost.
The racial filter is your imaginary construct, not JPost's.

living_stradivarius
Posts: 6721
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:41 pm
Location: Minnesnowta
Contact:

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by living_stradivarius » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:12 am

pizza wrote:If JPost were able to field 6 reporters at a time in Haiti, I'm sure their coverage would be equally broad.
Able or willing? I don't see any exclusive focus by the NYT on American expats living in Haiti, do you?
pizza wrote:After all, you don't want a non-black Jew or an Oriental slipping in by mistake, do you?

The racial filter is your imaginary construct, not JPost's.
Imaginary? JPost speaks for itself:
Israeli aid being readied following Haiti catastrophe

By HAVIV RETTIG GUR

The Jerusalem Post

As world governments scramble to offer urgently needed aid to the Caribbean island nation of Haiti following the catastrophic earthquake that leveled large parts of its capital on Tuesday, Israel and Diaspora Jewish groups rushed to get aid workers, supplies and money to the disaster zone.

The earthquake left large swaths of Port-au-Prince in ruins, including the National Palace and the headquarters of the UN mission to the country. Thousands were trapped under the rubble.

Despite the near-total collapse of the country's telephone networks, gruesome scenes of destruction, corpses and survivors without limbs have been broadcast from the worst-affected areas by international media agencies.

Meanwhile, the Foreign Ministry made contact with four Israelis known to reside on the island.

The four Israelis who were feared lost in the earthquake were Sharona Elsaieh, daughter of Abie Nathan, the well-known peace activist who passed away in 2008, Bridget Pierre Omashi and her son Segev David Omashi, age nine, and another woman whose identity has yet to be released by the Foreign Ministry.

The fate of another handful of Jews who make up the Haitian Jewish community remained uncertain Wednesday night due to the communication difficulties.


Meanwhile, an advance five-member IDF-Foreign Ministry team left for Haiti Wednesday afternoon, taking with it experts in engineering, medicine, logistics and rescue operations from the IDF's Home Front Command and Dani Saban, the head of the Caribbean and Central America Desk at the Foreign Ministry.

Amos Radian, Israel's ambassador to the nearby Dominican Republic, who is also responsible for Haiti, flew to the Caribbean island to serve as Israel's eyes on the ground as the country prepares to send more and larger humanitarian aid teams to the worst-hit areas.

According to a Foreign Ministry source, at this early stage the Haitian government was requesting mainly assistance in the form of medical crews and engineers who could assist in reinforcing buildings and sifting through the rubble.

The advance team that left Israel Wednesday was carrying with it communications equipment that would enable it to stay in regular contact with the Foreign Ministry's situation room in Jerusalem despite the collapse of the local Haitian networks, a ministry spokesperson said.

Back in Israel, several government agencies and private groups were preparing aid delegations that would be ready to be dispatched to Haiti as soon as assessments on the ground indicated a need for them.

At the order of Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu, special teams were being prepared by the Defense, Foreign and Public Security ministries to rush to Haiti at short notice.

The Israel Police formed a special team to help Haitian authorities identify the victims of the earthquake, together with an advisory delegation to help Haitian security forces maintain order "if such a need arises," according to a statement released by the police.

Magen David Adom began assembling a team of experts as part of a larger American Red Cross mission. The team will establish field clinics in cooperation with local rescue groups and the Red Cross, and Israeli volunteers will help search for the thousands thought to be buried under the rubble.

MDA also said Wednesday it was considering expanding its team to a full field delegation of doctors, paramedics and medics that will join the other Israeli rescue missions.

Meanwhile, an Israeli coalition of humanitarian groups, IsraAID, is sending a 12-man search-and-rescue team, which includes emergency medical staff.

The IsraAID team has been underwritten by an emergency contribution of the American Jewish Committee, one of several Jewish groups from North America that have launched emergency fundraising campaigns to help with relief efforts.

Other groups include the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee (JDC), B'nai B'rith International, the American Jewish World Service, the Canadian Jewish Congress and B'nai B'rith Canada, among others.
Image

pizza
Posts: 5094
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:03 am

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by pizza » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:23 am

ZAKA team rescues eight students in collapsed Haitian university building

Jan. 16, 2010
JPost.com Staff , THE JERUSALEM POST
A ZAKA delegation in Haiti was dispatched on Saturday to a collapsed 8-story university building where cries of trapped students were heard.

After hours working with rescue equipment provided by the Mexican military, the ZAKA volunteers succeeded in pulling eight students alive from the rubble in a 38-hour rescue operation.

The ZAKA delegation took time to recite Shabbat prayers. Many locals sat quietly in the rubble, staring at the men as they prayed, facing Jerusalem.

At the end of the prayers, they crowded around the delegation and kissed the prayer shawls.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? ... 2FShowFull

So much for your "local cynicism".

living_stradivarius
Posts: 6721
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:41 pm
Location: Minnesnowta
Contact:

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by living_stradivarius » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:34 am

pizza wrote:ZAKA team rescues eight students in collapsed Haitian university building

Jan. 16, 2010
JPost.com Staff , THE JERUSALEM POST
A ZAKA delegation in Haiti was dispatched on Saturday to a collapsed 8-story university building where cries of trapped students were heard.

After hours working with rescue equipment provided by the Mexican military, the ZAKA volunteers succeeded in pulling eight students alive from the rubble in a 38-hour rescue operation.

[/b]The ZAKA delegation took time to recite Shabbat prayers. Many locals sat quietly in the rubble, staring at the men as they prayed, facing Jerusalem.

At the end of the prayers, they crowded around the delegation and kissed the prayer shawls.[/b]

http://www.jpost.com /servlet/Satellite?cid=1263147904925&pagename=JPArticle%2F
Admirable act by ZAKA, but thanks for further substantiating my point as reiterated below. No mention of the names, perspectives, or stories of the survivors. The four-paragraph "report" is centered around ZAKA, 50% of which talks about prayer. Natural, since one of JPost's previous articles on ZAKA is precisely about "Faith in the face of trauma".
I don't see the NYT reporting on Americans reciting the pledge of allegiance after a rescue.
I'll wait for the day people treat complete strangers like siblings without the crutch of a shared religion or nationality (or potential to proselytize) before I buy stock in claims to "inherent" and selfless cultural generosity.
What everyone is doing to help Haiti in the real world is good, regardless of their background or way they have provided aid.
But using generosity to push a political or religious point as this thread has done? JPost has every right to write from a Jewish perspective, but citing it to affirm this thread?
Image

pizza
Posts: 5094
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:03 am

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by pizza » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:13 am

living_stradivarius wrote:
pizza wrote:ZAKA team rescues eight students in collapsed Haitian university building

Jan. 16, 2010
JPost.com Staff , THE JERUSALEM POST
A ZAKA delegation in Haiti was dispatched on Saturday to a collapsed 8-story university building where cries of trapped students were heard.

After hours working with rescue equipment provided by the Mexican military, the ZAKA volunteers succeeded in pulling eight students alive from the rubble in a 38-hour rescue operation.

[/b]The ZAKA delegation took time to recite Shabbat prayers. Many locals sat quietly in the rubble, staring at the men as they prayed, facing Jerusalem.

At the end of the prayers, they crowded around the delegation and kissed the prayer shawls.[/b]

http://www.jpost.com /servlet/Satellite?cid=1263147904925&pagename=JPArticle%2F
Admirable act by ZAKA, but thanks for further substantiating my point as reiterated below. No mention of the names, perspectives, or stories of the survivors. The four-paragraph report is centered around ZAKA, 50% of which talks about prayer. Natural, since one of JPost's previous articles on ZAKA is precisely about "Faith in the face of trauma".
I don't see the NYT reporting on Americans reciting the pledge of allegiance after a rescue.
I'll wait for the day people treat complete strangers like siblings without the crutch of a shared religion or nationality (or potential to proselytize) before I buy stock in claims to "inherent" and selfless cultural generosity.
Most people who were just rescued from the brink of death have other matters on their mind, rather than giving interviews to reporters so they can write "perspectives and stories". The locals were sufficiently impressed by the prayers, even if you and the NYT are not. Observant Jews pray three times a day; prayer is not a "crutch", nor is it a "pledge of allegiance". It's a personal obligation, and it's not done for show, nor for the benefit of onlookers, reporters or cynics.

I haven't the slightest problem with the way in which Zaka's activities have been reported, nor with the manner in which it has operated in Haiti, or anywhere else for that matter, nor do most people without the kind of baggage you carry and display wherever the activities of people of faith are discussed. They are all professionals, and are always very much in demand, because, unfortunately, they have had extensive experience in rescuing people from man-made disasters, so it's only natural that they're called upon to assist in all kinds of rescue operations. And regardless of who sponsored or funded the Israeli mission to Haiti, the individuals who went were all volunteers.

living_stradivarius
Posts: 6721
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:41 pm
Location: Minnesnowta
Contact:

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by living_stradivarius » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:21 am

pizza wrote:It's a personal obligation, and it's not done for show, nor for the benefit of onlookers, reporters or cynics.
Like I said, they can do it however they want. The problem is that posting this thread topic (and corroborating it with JPost) is taking what they have done and turning it into something done for show.
pizza wrote: Most people who were just rescued from the brink of death have other matters on their mind, rather than giving interviews to reporters so they can write "perspectives and stories".
What you dismiss as mere "interviews" are critical narratives essential to understanding and resolving a lot of the problems on the ground in Haiti. I'm sure the students ZAKA saved had plenty of concerns on their mind they wanted to share, but JPost simply didn't bother to find out.

From NYT:
NYT wrote:Mr. Ernso, a 25-year-old linguistics student, introduced himself to a World Food Program official and suggested that it might have been more effective if the agency had called ahead to advise community leaders that it was coming. Then he and four other brawny young men dived into the mob and began pulling people apart. Within five minutes the people had been arranged in three neat lines. “They have to create another way to deliver food,” Mr. Ernso said of the World Food Program official, speaking in English. “The way they are doing it now, they will not help us out of our misery.”

...

In the main market downtown, prices had skyrocketed. A small bottle of water cost $6. And residents have grown more desperate. “We need water,” said Joseph Jean René, a round man in a Hawaiian shirt standing near a scrum of money changers. “We are dying of thirst and hunger. Even the children are dying.”

Just a few blocks away, nearly a hundred sweaty young men with empty gasoline cans bunched together and shouted for their share of diesel. The pump could barely be seen because it was covered with people. “He already got some,” one shouted. Said another, “Come on, we’ve been here for two hours.” A security guard, thick as a tree, walked back and forth with a shotgun swinging in his left hand. The back of his blue T-shirt said in Creole, “If we put our hands together, life could be better.”

Violence and looting, unheard of just after the earthquake, also seemed to be spreading. Several reports of the police catching thieves and shooting them on the spot moved across the city, though at times, what happened and why were difficult to divine.

At the national cemetery, three new bodies appeared just after lunch, with wet blood on at least one of their faces. A fourth young man wearing Adidas high tops lay in a fetal position a few yards away on the sidewalk. Vomit and blood spread out from his chest.

Witnesses said they were thieves. “The police brought them here and shot them,” said Andre Pierre, 25. He stood over the fourth man, with a growing crowd. “He tried to fight the police,” said Maxime Nerestant, 22, a tae kwon do teacher with a shaved head and a beard. “ ‘Help me, help me,’ he said, ‘I’m innocent.’ ”

Suddenly, the man who was believed to be dead lifted his right arm. People asked him what happened, and where he was from. “La Lou,” he said quietly. A truck from Doctors Without Borders drove by. The crowd of Haitians did not notice, nor did they try to help the young man in his final moments. “The police shouldn’t kill innocent people, but with what’s happening in Haiti right now, people shouldn’t be stealing,” Mr. Nerestant said.

The police at the local precinct in the market area said they knew nothing of the theft or the shooting, though it occurred less than a mile away. Twelve of the station’s 29 officers were missing.

Pierrot Givens wore a hat and a black collarless shirt shiny as satin. He said that if there was more violence, it was because criminals from the prison had escaped. “There are a lot more bad people out there,” he said. “A lot of craziness.”
And here's a touching anecdote from NYT:
Meanwhile, Col. Cormi Bartal, a doctor in the Israeli Army’s newly established field hospital here, pulled back the flap of a tent serving as the hospital’s pediatric section and pointed to a woman, Guerlande Jean Michel, 24. She identified a sleeping newborn on her cot, one of the first born in the city after the earthquake, and spoke in a halting voice. “This is my child,” said Ms. Jean Michel, a primary school teacher. “His name is Israel.”

Colonel Bartal said the hospital had carried out amputations on 10 people, treated patients with burns on 70 percent of their bodies, and saved two people with gunshot wounds. “There are the injuries from the earthquake, but those are subsiding,” he explained. “Now we’re treating those affected by the aftermath, not from the earthquake.”
pizza wrote:I haven't the slightest problem with the way in which Zaka's activities have been reported, nor with the manner in which it has operated in Haiti, or anywhere else for that matter, nor do most people without the kind of baggage you carry and display wherever the activities of people of faith are discussed.
I'm just reminding you to pick up the baggage you left unattended the moment you started supporting this thread.
Image

Madame
Posts: 3552
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:56 am

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by Madame » Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:00 am

MarkC wrote:Saul -- speaking as a psychiatrist :mrgreen: I have to say that you just demonstrated clearly that in any literal sense, you were not delusional.

This raises an interesting question. :lol:

Is it not correct that someone who takes things literally should not be non-literal oneself?
Discuss amongst yourselves. :D
OK, the litter box is overflowing and stinky and you can't tell whose poop is whose any more ... how emptying it and leaving it outside. If you feel a need to play "let's you and him fight", take that outside, too.

SaulChanukah

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by SaulChanukah » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:04 am

Madame I don't want any payoff. I like discussing about the things that I'm interested about.
No one must join the conversation.

Daisy
Posts: 203
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 11:34 pm
Contact:

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by Daisy » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:06 pm

Ralph wrote:Haiti is one of the poorest nations on the face of the Earth and the illiteracy rate is staggering. It has not been and is not a democracy and few Haitians, struggling to daily survive, before the earthquake, have either knowledge of or interest in world affairs.
So, yes, the Haitian representative at the U.N. votes against Israel. A fact. But in this case, at this time bringing this up while the death toll is unknown, the suffering and devastation overwhelming, the future bleak is churlish.

It really doesn't matter how UN members vote on political matters in this case, because Haiti, an insignificant little country in the Carribbean, is not an island of UN representatives but of simple, uninformed people who are in terrible, terrible trouble. Thousands of them lie dead and even more are without food, water, and basic human needs. The people of Israel rightly observe Torah by lending a helping hand to people in dire need, and not expecting anything in return. And as for the Haitians themselves, this very day a woman delivered a baby with the help of Israeli emergency workers, and she named her newborn son "Israel". Isn't that a good sign?
"Your notions, though many,
are not worth a penny."
Image
(...Thank you, KoKo)

SaulChanukah

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by SaulChanukah » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:28 pm

Daisy wrote:
Ralph wrote:Haiti is one of the poorest nations on the face of the Earth and the illiteracy rate is staggering. It has not been and is not a democracy and few Haitians, struggling to daily survive, before the earthquake, have either knowledge of or interest in world affairs.
So, yes, the Haitian representative at the U.N. votes against Israel. A fact. But in this case, at this time bringing this up while the death toll is unknown, the suffering and devastation overwhelming, the future bleak is churlish.

It really doesn't matter how UN members vote on political matters in this case, because Haiti, an insignificant little country in the Carribbean, is not an island of UN representatives but of simple, uninformed people who are in terrible, terrible trouble. Thousands of them lie dead and even more are without food, water, and basic human needs. The people of Israel rightly observe Torah by lending a helping hand to people in dire need, and not expecting anything in return. And as for the Haitians themselves, this very day a woman delivered a baby with the help of Israeli emergency workers, and she named her newborn son "Israel". Isn't that a good sign?
It doesn’t matter for you, but it does matter for Israel.

Who those Haitian representatives represent?

Not the Haitian people?

Is Haiti a dictatorship?

Who put these people in office?

If you vote with Iran and the Arab states against Israel don’t expect the Jews to help you out when you need their help.

And Israel helped them anyways, and I am for helping them anyways , even if they don’t deserve our help.

And the same thing goes for any nation that stands against us and supports our enemies.

We are not obligated to help you if you support our enemies and give a vote to lies and distortions that tarnish our name and endanger our country and lives.

We will help you anyways, because we are good, Israel is good and the Jewish people by their very nature are generous people, but not because you deserve it.

If you want to deserve our help, you don’t have to help us, and you don’t have to send us money, or other things.

There is only one thing, you must do, don't join our enemies against us, don’t make an opinion against us, don't cast a vote against us . If you'll be able to keep only this one requirement, then we will help you and you will also deserve our help!

Jean
Posts: 313
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:09 pm

Re: Haiti regularly votes against Israel in the UN

Post by Jean » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:20 pm

I suspect few people in the US understand what the UN does and what the issues & votes have been over the years. The UN is political. The voting is driven by political agenda.

Providing aid to Haitians during this catatrophe is humanitarian. Politics has, or should have, no place in the discussion.

I find it really very sad and very revealing that only a prominant person from Israel chooses to put the two events together in an attempt to claim moral superiority.
Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. - Albert Einstein

I haven't got the slightest idea how to change people, but still I keep a long list of prospective candidates just in case I should ever figure it out - David Sedaris (Naked)

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests