Jewish guy from Queens likes Pius XII

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jbuck919
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Jewish guy from Queens likes Pius XII

Post by jbuck919 » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:44 am

# The New York Times

March 7, 2010
Wartime Pope Has a Huge Fan: A Jewish Knight
By PAUL VITELLO

LONG BEACH, N.Y. — At home here on Long Island, he is Gary L. Krupp, medical equipment dealer, now retired after a career of ups and downs. He shares one car and a small house in a no-frills neighborhood with his wife, Meredith, and wryly describes himself as “an average schlemiel, just a Jewish kid from Queens.”

At the Vatican, he is known as Commendatore Gary Krupp, Knight Commander of the Pontifical Equestrian Order of St. Gregory the Great. For short, the Swiss Guard and cardinals address him as “Your Excellency.”

It is a compelling tale in itself: how Mr. Krupp became only the seventh Jewish papal knight in history, dubbed by Pope John Paul II in 2000 for persuading American manufacturers to donate $12 million worth of high-tech medical equipment to an Italian hospital.

But the more curious and complicated story is the transformation Mr. Krupp has undergone since. With no previous training or special interest in history, he has emerged as the Vatican’s most outspoken Jewish ally in a heated debate at the crux of tensions between Roman Catholic and Jewish leaders and historians: whether Pope Pius XII, the pontiff during World War II, did as much as he could have to save Jews from the Holocaust.

Mr. Krupp, 62, has raised enough money through the Pave the Way Foundation, a nonprofit organization he founded in 2002, to travel the globe, hire researchers to scour historic documents, sponsor a three-day symposium in Rome and publish four editions of a glossy, illustrated volume of evidence supporting his view that Pius XII spared no effort to save the lives of persecuted Jews.

He has pressed his case in a recent op-ed article for The New York Post, and in interviews with conservative Catholic television programs and Web sites, which have cited him as an expert on Pius.

And in a special audience at the papal summer residence in September 2008, Pope Benedict XVI thanked Mr. Krupp for bringing attention to “what Pius XII achieved for the Jews.”

Historians and religious leaders around the world have taken increasing notice of Mr. Krupp’s work — some with alarm, some with pleasure — because his advocacy has coincided with efforts within the Vatican to promote the canonization of Pius. Pope Benedict nudged that process forward in December by affirming Pius’s “heroic virtues” and pronouncing him “venerable,” a step on the path toward sainthood.

The controversy over Pius’s wartime conduct had stalled his elevation for so many years that Pope Benedict’s action shocked scholars on both sides of the debate. And while agreeing on little else, some in both camps credit Mr. Krupp for breaking the logjam.

“I wrote 10 books about Pius XII, but in all these years I never knew how to shake things up for the cause like this wonderful man, Mr. Krupp,” said Sister Margherita Marchione, a professor emerita at Fairleigh Dickinson University who is considered the foremost defender of Pius outside the Vatican.

Deborah Dwork, a professor of Holocaust history at Clark University, put it another way: “Pope Benedict would not have had the chutzpah to go forward with the veneration process if not for this P.R. work Gary Krupp does.”

In a dispute decades long, the church has maintained that Pius XII supported efforts throughout the war to hide Jews or help them escape, but worked behind the scenes to avoid retaliation from Nazi and Italian Fascist authorities.

Holocaust scholars, who consider Pius, with his worldwide network of diplomats and clergy, to be among the first world leaders to have grasped the scope of the Jewish persecution, have asked why he did not condemn it publicly. But most consider that and other questions unanswerable until the Vatican opens the complete archives of Pius’s papacy. Although a selection of those papers has been published, the Vatican has kept most off limits to outside researchers.

How Mr. Krupp happened onto this muddy battlefield is hard to explain, even for Mr. Krupp, a husky man who sometimes seems almost possessed, bounding up and down the stairs of his split-level house to retrieve copies of documents or books to make his points.

“Believe me, I never dreamed I would be defending a man who, when I was growing up, we believed he was a Nazi sympathizer,” he said.

He says he takes his faith seriously, though he was never very active in his synagogue, or a member of Jewish organizations. His rabbi, Barry Dov Schwartz of Temple B’Nai Sholom in Rockville Centre, called him “a bit of a stubborn guy, whom I happen to be very fond of,” but declined to comment on Mr. Krupp’s efforts on behalf of popes.

By Mr. Krupp’s account, that work evolved “organically.” A friend, a Long Island priest, got him involved with the Italian hospital in need of equipment.

Being knighted thrust Mr. Krupp into the ranks of some of the world’s richest and most prominent people, living and dead — Bob Hope and Rupert Murdoch included — who received the knighthood of St. Gregory the Great for serving the church in some way. Unlike the vast majority of them, however, Mr. Krupp said he saw his elevation as an opportunity to become a conduit between the Catholic Church and the world. In 2005, he brokered an agreement with the Vatican Library to lend a rare set of manuscripts by the medieval Jewish philosopher Maimonides to the Israel Museum. And gradually he decided he liked promoting interreligious understanding more than he liked selling medical equipment.

His Pave the Way Foundation became a full-time occupation in 2005, around the time a friend at the Vatican suggested that he might help clear up misunderstandings between Catholics and Jews about Pius. Mr. Krupp began collecting and underwriting research.

“Did you know Pius XII saved more than 860,000 Jews from the death camps? I mean, I never knew that before. It’s character assassination — a shanda — that so many Jews say he was an anti-Semite,” said Mr. Krupp, using a Yiddish word for disgrace.

The assessment of Mr. Krupp’s work among many scholars and leaders of long-established Jewish organizations has been equally harsh.

Rabbi Eric J. Greenberg, associate director of interfaith affairs at the Anti-Defamation League, called Mr. Krupp’s mission “a campaign of misinformation.”

Professor Dwork said Mr. Krupp’s research was “amateurish, worse than amateurish — risible.” More disturbing, she said, it seems to have emboldened some in the Vatican to push harder for Pius XII’s canonization.

He may be well-meaning, but his lack of experience in international affairs and historical research makes Mr. Krupp highly vulnerable to being manipulated by factions inside the Vatican, she said.

Several historians said the 860,000 figure that Mr. Krupp cited appeared frequently in biographies of Pius XII, but had never been documented.

The Rev. John T. Pawlikowski, a Catholic priest who is a founding member of the board of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum and a professor of social ethics at the University of Chicago, said the Vatican was “discrediting itself by associating itself with this kind of questionable scholarship.”

Mr. Krupp has heard it all. In 2008, several historians called to ask him to cancel his three-day conference in Rome, which ultimately drew many Vatican-friendly scholars but few with independent credentials.

One caller, Paul O’Shea, who has written extensively about Pius XII, tried to warn Mr. Krupp that proponents of canonization might be trying to use him. He urged Mr. Krupp to wait for the Vatican to open its files, and for scholars to complete their work, before reaching conclusions.

Mr. Krupp thanked him for his advice and ignored it.

“Listen to me: Pius XII was the greatest hero of World War II,” Mr. Krupp said recently. “He saved more Jews than Roosevelt, Churchill and all the rest of them combined. We should not let him be an issue between Catholics and Jews.”

He added: “And I predict this: Historians are never going to solve this whole problem. There will always be questions.”

In the debate over Gary Krupp, too, there will always be questions. Why is he doing this? How has he marshaled deep-pocketed support for his foundation, which has an annual budget of about $500,000 and pays him and his wife a combined $140,000 a year? (Its board includes New York entrepreneurs and Wall Street managers, most of them Jewish.)

And what is it like to start your day in a house where your ceiling needs painting, and end your day, jet-lagged, in a house with ceilings by Michelangelo?

Meredith Krupp contemplated that question recently and answered with a koan-like reference to the white feather that appears mysteriously in the opening and closing frames of the movie “Forrest Gump.”

“It’s just like that feather,” she said. “It just goes and goes where it goes.”


New York Post Updated: Mon., Dec. 28, 2009, 3:33 AM home
Friend to the Jews

By GARY L. KRUPP

Last Updated: 3:33 AM, December 28, 2009

Posted: 1:03 AM, December 28, 2009

A recent papal decree moved Pope Pius XII, among others, closer to sainthood -- returning to the forefront the controversy over his role in World War II and the Holocaust.

Growing up Jewish in Queens, I never dreamt I would be defending the man I once believed to be a Nazi sympathizer and an anti-Semite. But my work since 2002 with my wife, Meredith, and the Pave the Way Foundation has led me to this point.

We founded Pave the Way to identify and eliminate nontheological obstacles between religions. Thus, despite our early prejudices, we decided to investigate the papacy of Pius XII (Eugenio Pacelli), one of today's greatest sources of hurt between Jews and Catholics.

After years of research in documentary evidence and eyewitness testimony, what we found shocked us. We found nothing but praise and positive news articles concerning Pius' actions from every Jewish, Israeli and political leader of the era who lived through the war.

A few articles in the postwar era suggested that he should have done more to confront the Nazis -- but it wasn't until 1963, in the wake of the fictitious play "The Deputy" (written five years after Pius died), that accusations began flowing that he had failed to act, that he was a cold-hearted Nazi sympathizer who couldn't care less about the Jewish people.

The evidence strongly suggests this was part of a KGB-directed and -financed bid to smear Pius, a Soviet disinformation campaign meant to discredit the Catholic Church, which at that time was profoundly anti-Communist.

In any case, the facts simply don't match what so many have come to believe about Pius.

It is unquestionable that Pius XII intervened to save countless Jews at a time most nations -- even FDR's America -- refused to accept these refugees. He issued false baptismal papers and obtained visas for them to emigrate as "Non Aryan Catholic-Jews." He smuggled Jews into the Americas and Asia. He ordered the lifting of cloister for men and women to enter monasteries, convents and churches to hide 7,000 Jews of Rome in a single day.

Among the 5,000 pages of documents that Pave the Way has located, there is abundant evidence that Pacelli was a lifelong friend of the Jews. Some highlights:

* In 1917, at the request of World Zionist Organization Director Nachum Sokolow, Nuncio Pacelli intervened with the Germans to protect the Jews of Palestine from extermination by the Ottoman Turks.

* In 1925, Pacelli arranged for Sokolow to meet with Pope Benedict XV to discuss a Jewish homeland in Palestine.

* In 1930, Pacelli supported the German bishops' orders excommunicating anyone who joined "the Hitler Party."

* In 1938, Pacelli intervened to defeat a Polish anti-koshering law.

* In 1939, A.W. Klieforth, the US consul general based in Cologne, Germany, wrote a confidential letter to Washington reporting on the "extremeness" of Pacelli's hatred of National Socialism and of Hitler.

* In 1947, at the United Nations, he encouraged the 17 Catholic countries out of the 33 in favor to vote for the partitioning of Palestine to create the State of Israel.

* A 1948 deposition by Gen. Karl Wolff, the SS commandant for Italy, revealed the Nazis' wartime plan to kidnap the pope, kill countless cardinals and seize the Vatican.

But the personal tales may be more compelling. Pacelli's childhood best friend was Guido Mendes, an Orthodox Jewish boy. He tells how Pacel- li shared Shabbat meals with him. Mendes taught him Hebrew, and Pacelli helped him to emigrate to Palestine in 1938.

Pius XII's detractors prefer to criticize rather than simply look at the evidence. Two years ago, Pope Benedict XVI ordered the opening of the Vatican's archives up to 1939, containing much evidence of Eugenio Pacelli's activities leading up to his papacy. According to the sign-in sheets, few of Pius' critics have bothered to come to the archives to view the material.

Pinchas Lapide, a Jewish historian, theologian and Israeli ambassador, stated that the actions and policies of Pius XII saved as many as 860,000 Jews.

Albert Einstein, Golda Meir, the chief rabbi of Palestine, the chief rabbi of Rome and the heads of every Jewish organization showered praise upon him during his lifetime.

Were all these witnesses who lived through the war misguided?

Gary L. Krupp is president of the Pave the Way Foundation, which has many of the documents noted here online at ptwf.org and which will soon publish a book with the main evidence in English, Hebrew, Spanish and French.


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There was a response in the Post called "Pius XII no friend of the Jews" but it got stuck loading and I've got to get to work. :)

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SaulChanukah

Re: Jewish guy from Queens likes Pius XII

Post by SaulChanukah » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:51 am

Pinchas Lapide, a Jewish historian, theologian and Israeli ambassador, stated that the actions and policies of Pius XII saved as many as 860,000 Jews.


This 'historian' can say whatever he wants, but his statement needs evidence. But even if they will bring evidence, still it will be problematic to announce him as a saint, because the Holocaust happened under his watch, and given his status as the leader of one of the major religions in the world that possessed great power, he should have done more, clearly he didn’t, and six million Jews were murdered , many of them were murdered by Catholics.
The Catholic Church headed by this Pope, did too little, and one million Jewish children were murdered. In fact all of Rome's 1000 Jewish population were gathered by the Nazis under the Pope's nose and were sent to their deaths.

If he didn’t lift a finger or utter any words to save the Jews of his hometown , under his nose, how should we believe that he did anything else for Jews in far away places?

When one has the power and the ability to save 10 people and he only saves one, and doesn’t use the rest of his power to save the rest he is not a saint, he can never be a saint. Greater effort was needed to be used by the Pope, he didn’t.

Why?

That's the entire question.
Last edited by SaulChanukah on Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

karlhenning
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Re: Jewish guy from Queens likes Pius XII

Post by karlhenning » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:20 am

Fascinating; thank you, John.
Paul Vitello wrote:“I wrote 10 books about Pius XII, but in all these years I never knew how to shake things up for the cause like this wonderful man, Mr. Krupp,” said Sister Margherita Marchione, a professor emerita at Fairleigh Dickinson University who is considered the foremost defender of Pius outside the Vatican.
Fairleigh Dickinson? In Rutherford, NJ?
Paul Vitello wrote:One caller, Paul O’Shea, who has written extensively about Pius XII, tried to warn Mr. Krupp that proponents of canonization might be trying to use him. He urged Mr. Krupp to wait for the Vatican to open its files, and for scholars to complete their work, before reaching conclusions.
Wonder who's trying to use Paul O’Shea . . . .

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Re: Jewish guy from Queens likes Pius XII

Post by Donald Isler » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:02 am

On the one hand, Jews don't believe someone to be a saint because a group of human beings voted him one.

On the other hand, there are people on every side of this story, even Jews who support Pius, and Catholic priests who do not.

The Vatican needs to open the archives containing all the information they have about the wartime period. Then, I believe, scholars will come to a consensus based on the facts.
Donald Isler

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Re: Jewish guy from Queens likes Pius XII

Post by karlhenning » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:07 am

Donald Isler wrote:On the one hand, Jews don't believe someone to be a saint because a group of human beings voted him one.
Catholics don't believe that anyone is a saint for that reason, either.

Cheers,
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Re: Jewish guy from Queens likes Pius XII

Post by Agnes Selby » Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:47 pm

Very interesting article, John and thank you for posting it.

The question why the Pope did not condemn the Nazis
publicly has many implications.

First of all, if it was at all possible, he would have made
the hell Jews were experiencing even worse.
Secondly, he would have endangered Catholics all over Europe,
and thirdly, he would have endangered his own person
and the rule of the Vatican.

Condemning the Nazi rule under occupation was not as simple
as it may seem today. My father, with a number of other prominent
Jews, who tried to BUY Jewish freedon from the Nazis occupying
Czechoslovakia, had secret co-operation from the Vatican, sending
a large number of Jewish families to Italy where they were
"handled" by Vatican clergy and somehow disappeared among the
Italian population. I am sure that the Vatican has documents
which will provide this infomation. I cannot understand why this is not
in the public arena.

The Jewish organisers of these efforts are all dead now, either
having died in concentration camps, or like my father, dying of old age.

As I am not a Catholic or a believer in sainthood, I will not touch
on the subject of sainthood. However, the Pope did all he could
under the most difficult of circumstances. My father and his
collaborator and friend who also migrated to Australia and
has also passed away, often talked about these valiant times during the
early stages of the Nazi persecution and the success and failures
to buy time from the murderous Nazis as well as the help they received
from the Vatican. I wish now I had paid more attention to the details of
their conversations.

Agnes.

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Re: Jewish guy from Queens likes Pius XII

Post by jbuck919 » Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:58 pm

On the matter of causes of sainthood, the canonization causes of popes since the counter-reformation have not been the rule they would seem to be to those only familiar with the situation of the last quarter century or so. There was gap of nearly 250 years between the canonization of the counter-reformation Pope Pius V (1712) and the last pope to get the honor, the cult favorite fin-de-siècle Pius X (1954). (Many earlier popes who have "Saint" in front of their names, such as Gregory the Great, are saints by tradition or acclamation with no modern canonization ceremony involved.) There is irony in this, for since the scandal caused by the record of venal and worldly popes in the Middle Ages and Renaissance, the church has been very careful about picking men of impeccable character and unblemished personal history as popes. The motivation behind the current fad of declaring popes saints (John XXIII and the Vatican I Pope Pius IX are also in the pipeline) is difficult to explain, though I'm sure there has been plenty of speculation. Canonizing all these men tends to support the false impression that the church is top-heavy in holiness; some of them such as Pius IX and Pius XII have no real popular cult behind their cause; at least two of them (the same two) are highly controversial and raise unpleasant questions of church politics that could be avoided if Benedict would just quietly suspend their causes; and finally, if one takes a less myopic historical view, it might be difficult to make the case that these popes are really all that special in comparison to many other popes, not to mention other impeccable and venerable Catholic figures who were not popes.
Last edited by jbuck919 on Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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SaulChanukah

Re: Jewish guy from Queens likes Pius XII

Post by SaulChanukah » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:02 pm

Agnes Selby wrote: However, the Pope did all he could
under the most difficult of circumstances.
How about risking his own life and his own status to save Jewish people? Especially those that lived under his very nose, the entire Jewish community of Rome?

He didn’t do it, that's why he didn’t do all that he could under the most difficult of circumstances, don't turn him into a victim, his own Catholic Brethren were busy murdering Jews.

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Re: Jewish guy from Queens likes Pius XII

Post by Agnes Selby » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:05 pm

SaulChanukah wrote:
Agnes Selby wrote: However, the Pope did all he could
under the most difficult of circumstances.
How about risking his own life and his own status to save Jewish people? Especially those that lived under his very nose, the entire Jewish community of Rome?

He didn’t do it, that's why he didn’t do all that he could under the most difficult of circumstances, don't turn him into a victim, his own Catholic Brethren were busy murdering Jews.

How about a good long treatise against the Pope, Saul. You already
accused Jesus of being liar. What could stop you from more mischief?

SaulChanukah

Re: Jewish guy from Queens likes Pius XII

Post by SaulChanukah » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:41 pm

Agnes Selby wrote:
SaulChanukah wrote:
Agnes Selby wrote: However, the Pope did all he could
under the most difficult of circumstances.
How about risking his own life and his own status to save Jewish people? Especially those that lived under his very nose, the entire Jewish community of Rome?

He didn’t do it, that's why he didn’t do all that he could under the most difficult of circumstances, don't turn him into a victim, his own Catholic Brethren were busy murdering Jews.

How about a good long treatise against the Pope, Saul. You already
accused Jesus of being liar. What could stop you from more mischief?
All the Jewish people in the world know and believe that Jesus was a liar. Not only him, but also Muhamed and all other false prophets.

So what's your point?

Agnes Selby
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Re: Jewish guy from Queens likes Pius XII

Post by Agnes Selby » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:22 pm

SaulChanukah wrote:
Agnes Selby wrote:
SaulChanukah wrote:
Agnes Selby wrote: However, the Pope did all he could
under the most difficult of circumstances.
How about risking his own life and his own status to save Jewish people? Especially those that lived under his very nose, the entire Jewish community of Rome?

He didn’t do it, that's why he didn’t do all that he could under the most difficult of circumstances, don't turn him into a victim, his own Catholic Brethren were busy murdering Jews.

How about a good long treatise against the Pope, Saul. You already
accused Jesus of being liar. What could stop you from more mischief?
All the Jewish people in the world know and believe that Jesus was a liar. Not only him, but also Muhamed and all other false prophets.

So what's your point?

My point is that you should go and get a glass of water and take
your pills.

SaulChanukah

Re: Jewish guy from Queens likes Pius XII

Post by SaulChanukah » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:20 pm

Agnes Selby wrote:
SaulChanukah wrote:
Agnes Selby wrote:
SaulChanukah wrote:
Agnes Selby wrote: However, the Pope did all he could
under the most difficult of circumstances.
How about risking his own life and his own status to save Jewish people? Especially those that lived under his very nose, the entire Jewish community of Rome?

He didn’t do it, that's why he didn’t do all that he could under the most difficult of circumstances, don't turn him into a victim, his own Catholic Brethren were busy murdering Jews.

How about a good long treatise against the Pope, Saul. You already
accused Jesus of being liar. What could stop you from more mischief?
All the Jewish people in the world know and believe that Jesus was a liar. Not only him, but also Muhamed and all other false prophets.

So what's your point?

My point is that you should go and get a glass of water and take
your pills.
You are a true disappointment in the fullest sense of the word.

Agnes Selby
Author of Constanze Mozart's biography
Posts: 5568
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Re: Jewish guy from Queens likes Pius XII

Post by Agnes Selby » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:05 am

SaulChanukah wrote:
Agnes Selby wrote:
SaulChanukah wrote:
Agnes Selby wrote:
SaulChanukah wrote:
Agnes Selby wrote: However, the Pope did all he could
under the most difficult of circumstances.
How about risking his own life and his own status to save Jewish people? Especially those that lived under his very nose, the entire Jewish community of Rome?

He didn’t do it, that's why he didn’t do all that he could under the most difficult of circumstances, don't turn him into a victim, his own Catholic Brethren were busy murdering Jews.

How about a good long treatise against the Pope, Saul. You already
accused Jesus of being liar. What could stop you from more mischief?
All the Jewish people in the world know and believe that Jesus was a liar. Not only him, but also Muhamed and all other false prophets.

So what's your point?

My point is that you should go and get a glass of water and take
your pills.
You are a true disappointment in the fullest sense of the word.
---------

Very good! The best news I had all day.

-----------------

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Re: Jewish guy from Queens likes Pius XII

Post by Ralph » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:41 am

Saul,

Your comment about Jesus being a liar as one view held by most if not all Jews is pure bigotry. Most Jews whom I know respect Christianity and the belief in Christ that binds Christians. They do not denigrate Christ just as no Christians I know denigrate your God.
Image

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Albert Einstein

SaulChanukah

Re: Jewish guy from Queens likes Pius XII

Post by SaulChanukah » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:34 pm

Ralph wrote:Saul,

Your comment about Jesus being a liar as one view held by most if not all Jews is pure bigotry. Most Jews whom I know respect Christianity and the belief in Christ that binds Christians. They do not denigrate Christ just as no Christians I know denigrate your God.
The Jewish religion and those who follow it consider Jesus to be a false prophet. That's not a secret you know...

What's the difference between a liar and a false prophet?

I don't see any difference.

About respect...

Christianity believes that God had left the Jewish people and that now they are the new Israel.

That's what Christians believe, should we say that their position is disrespectful to Jews?

Perhaps, but that's still their beliefs.

Should we say that the Jewish position that believes Jesus to be a false prophet is disrespectful to Christians?

Maybe it is, but Christian beliefs about Jews are not respective at all.

Read John and Matthew and see the hate they write about Jews. Forget about respect, who is talking about respect. Read the hate, its all there.

Many people's different beliefs are not necessarily 'respectful' to each other's beliefs. That's just the way it is.

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Re: Jewish guy from Queens likes Pius XII

Post by Ralph » Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:54 pm

Yes, Saul, there is a world of difference between saying Jesus was a "false prophet" as opposed to being a "liar." To say he was a false prophet is to express one's theological viewpoint. A Jew can believe Jesus was not a true prophet of God without intimating or stating that he was a "liar," a term of opprobrium connoting deliberate uttering of falsehoods by him.

I have read the gospels you cite and find them more complex than you do. In any event, both the Old Testament and the New Testament have some pretty harsh concepts that most of our world rejects today.
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Albert Einstein

SaulChanukah

Re: Jewish guy from Queens likes Pius XII

Post by SaulChanukah » Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:15 pm

Ralph wrote:Yes, Saul, there is a world of difference between saying Jesus was a "false prophet" as opposed to being a "liar." To say he was a false prophet is to express one's theological viewpoint. A Jew can believe Jesus was not a true prophet of God without intimating or stating that he was a "liar," a term of opprobrium connoting deliberate uttering of falsehoods by him.

I have read the gospels you cite and find them more complex than you do. In any event, both the Old Testament and the New Testament have some pretty harsh concepts that most of our world rejects today.
Give it up Ralph, a false prophet means that he lied...

Actually most of the world is religious. You have Billions of people that believe in God. So you are the minority Ralph.

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