US ponders denying Israel arms needed for conflict with Iran

Discuss whatever you want here ... movies, books, recipes, politics, beer, wine, TV ... everything except classical music.

Moderators: Lance, Corlyss_D

Post Reply
SaulChanukah

US ponders denying Israel arms needed for conflict with Iran

Post by SaulChanukah » Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:23 pm

US ponders denying Israel arms needed for conflict with Iran

DEBKAfile Exclusive Report March 13, 2010, 9:53 PM (GMT+02:00)


Prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu convened his inner cabinet Saturday night, March 12, to discuss the spiraling crisis with Washington and his first response.
debkafile's military and Washington sources report: The Obama administration is considering withholding from Israel military items urgently needed in case of a flare-up of hostilities with Iran. This would further ratchet up the mounting row over Israel's decision to build another 1,600 homes in E. Jerusalem. The requests were filed by defense minister Ehud Barak as recently as Feb. 26, when he visited Washington and met defense secretary Robert Gates and secretary of state Hillary Clinton.
In an exceptionally harsh phone call to Netanyahu Friday, March, Clinton herself hinted at this possibility while administering a dressing-down on the East Jerusalem housing decision and its announcement during Vice president Joe Biden's visit.
Reporting on that phone call, State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley disclosed: "The secretary said she could not understand how this happened, particularly in light of the United States' strong commitment to Israel's security."
Washington correspondents interpreted this as a threat to withhold items vital for Israel's security unless the prime minister reversed that decision (which Palestinians now demand as the precondition for resuming peace talks).

Our military sources report that the Barak arms list is tailored to a potential four-front offensive against Israel launched by Iran and its allies. It includes systems needed by the Israeli Air Force, certain types of missiles and advanced electronic equipment. During his last visit, the defense minster complained the list had been pending in Washington for more than three months and the sands for a possible conflict were running out fast. He stressed that it was essential for these items to reach Israel before a flare-up occurred. The urgency was such that he suggested that if they could not be supplied to Israel at short notice, they should at least be held ready meanwhile in the emergency stores of the US bases in Israel's Negev.

Gates promised Barak to study the list and let him have his answer in the coming days, but none has so far been received.
Some circles in the United States and many in Israel say the Obama administration is blowing the crisis up with deliberate intent. American-Jewish criticism was led Saturday night by the Anti-Defamation League's Abraham Foxman, who issued this statement: "We are shocked and stunned at the Administration’s tone and public dressing down of Israel on the issue of future building in Jerusalem".
Defense sources in Washington reported Saturday the view that the Obama administration, which has never cultivated warm relations with the Netanyahu government, has seized on the Jerusalem housing spat as a device for restraining Israel from attacking Iran's nuclear sites, a step which the White House strenuously opposes.

Jean
Posts: 313
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:09 pm

Re: US ponders denying Israel arms needed for conflict with Iran

Post by Jean » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:19 pm

has seized on the Jerusalem housing spat as a device for restraining Israel from attacking Iran's nuclear sites
Not unusual to apply economic pressure in order to further other political goals...and this one is a good one.
Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. - Albert Einstein

I haven't got the slightest idea how to change people, but still I keep a long list of prospective candidates just in case I should ever figure it out - David Sedaris (Naked)

SaulChanukah

Re: US ponders denying Israel arms needed for conflict with Iran

Post by SaulChanukah » Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:35 pm

Jean wrote:
has seized on the Jerusalem housing spat as a device for restraining Israel from attacking Iran's nuclear sites
Not unusual to apply economic pressure in order to further other political goals...and this one is a good one.
Israel is a democracy. And a the greatest friend the U.S has. Blackmail is not nice among friends. The Palis are America's enemies and the U.S should not side with them on any issue.
The U.S has to side with its friends and not its enemies. The Jews have every right to build in their 3000 year old biblical and historical homeland especially in Jerusalem which has always been the only Capital the Jewish people ever had.

Chalkperson
Disposable Income Specialist
Posts: 17667
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:19 pm
Location: New York City
Contact:

Re: US ponders denying Israel arms needed for conflict with Iran

Post by Chalkperson » Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:32 pm

This is nothing new, the US did exactly the same thing before Israel's War with Lebanon, you (DEBKA) may say that Israel can take out Iran on it's own, but, this proves that you can't, because retaliation could come from all sides, and even if Israel has modified Civilian Aircraft into re-fuelling tankers there are other systems and armaments that are required, as a general rule the US also holds back the "replacement" missiles etc that would be needed to replenish Israel's defensive stockpiles after any conflict it enters into, if you think back to Gulf War One you will remember that the US gave Israel Patriot Missiles to protect them from Saddam's SCUD Missiles, but, we did not give you the Codes to control them, they were delivered with only the capacity to shoot down any missiles coming across Israel's borders, if Israel had launched missiles in retaliation towards Iraq then the Patriot's would have shot down those missiles too, thus keeping Israel out of that War...sabre rattling is all that Israel can really do on it's own, and stability in the Gulf is vital to American interests because of Afghanistan and Iraq so don't expect Gates to give you the means to choose when any potential strike on Iran can occur, the United States AND Israel will jointly determine if and when that happens...
Sent via Twitter by @chalkperson

SaulChanukah

Re: US ponders denying Israel arms needed for conflict with Iran

Post by SaulChanukah » Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:20 am

Chalkperson wrote:This is nothing new, the US did exactly the same thing before Israel's War with Lebanon, you (DEBKA) may say that Israel can take out Iran on it's own, but, this proves that you can't, because retaliation could come from all sides, and even if Israel has modified Civilian Aircraft into re-fuelling tankers there are other systems and armaments that are required, as a general rule the US also holds back the "replacement" missiles etc that would be needed to replenish Israel's defensive stockpiles after any conflict it enters into, if you think back to Gulf War One you will remember that the US gave Israel Patriot Missiles to protect them from Saddam's SCUD Missiles, but, we did not give you the Codes to control them, they were delivered with only the capacity to shoot down any missiles coming across Israel's borders, if Israel had launched missiles in retaliation towards Iraq then the Patriot's would have shot down those missiles too, thus keeping Israel out of that War...sabre rattling is all that Israel can really do on it's own, and stability in the Gulf is vital to American interests because of Afghanistan and Iraq so don't expect Gates to give you the means to choose when any potential strike on Iran can occur, the United States AND Israel will jointly determine if and when that happens...
Not all wrong things must be "new".

ch1525
Posts: 991
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:53 pm
Location: New Orleans
Contact:

Re: US ponders denying Israel arms needed for conflict with Iran

Post by ch1525 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:04 am

But, of course! Obama is a Muslim and hates Israel just as much as Mahmoud. He's just more secretive about it. That's what I think, at least.

Barry
Posts: 10230
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 3:50 pm

Re: US ponders denying Israel arms needed for conflict with Iran

Post by Barry » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:07 am

ch1525 wrote:But, of course! Obama is a Muslim and hates Israel just as much as Mahmoud. He's just more secretive about it. That's what I think, at least.
That's as bad as the people who think Bush was either behind the 9/11 attacks or knew about them in advance and didn't stop them, Chad.
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea; but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." - Abraham Lincoln

"Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed." - Winston Churchill

"Before I refuse to take your questions, I have an opening statement." - Ronald Reagan

http://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pbp0hur ... re=related

NancyElla
Posts: 659
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:51 pm

Re: US ponders denying Israel arms needed for conflict with Iran

Post by NancyElla » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:19 am

ch1525 wrote:But, of course! Obama is a Muslim and hates Israel just as much as Mahmoud. He's just more secretive about it. That's what I think, at least.
Huh??????????????????????????????????????????????????? :roll:
"This is happiness; to be dissolved into something complete and great." --Willa Cather

Guitarist
Posts: 1160
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:22 pm
Location: Davis, CA

Re: US ponders denying Israel arms needed for conflict with Iran

Post by Guitarist » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:32 am

ch1525 wrote:That's what I think, at least.
I'm not sure you do... (Or are you being wildly sarcastic?)

Corlyss_D
Site Administrator
Posts: 27663
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:25 am
Location: The Great State of Utah
Contact:

Re: US ponders denying Israel arms needed for conflict with Iran

Post by Corlyss_D » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:42 am

Jean wrote:
has seized on the Jerusalem housing spat as a device for restraining Israel from attacking Iran's nuclear sites
Not unusual to apply economic pressure in order to further other political goals...and this one is a good one.
No question, but until The Amateur Hour stumbled into office last year, the housing freezes now demanded by the US were not a part of the deal the Bush administration had negotiated almost to signature. Striking the pose of "Friend of the Palestinians," it solicited a restatement of the Palestinian demands and the housing freeze was on the list. Thus the administration snatched defeat from the jaws of victory and the so-called peace talks are stymied again. It wasn't the Israelis that asked for additional demands. It was this feckless administration.
Corlyss
Contessa d'EM, a carbon-based life form

Corlyss_D
Site Administrator
Posts: 27663
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:25 am
Location: The Great State of Utah
Contact:

Re: US ponders denying Israel arms needed for conflict with Iran

Post by Corlyss_D » Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:43 am

ch1525 wrote:But, of course! Obama is a Muslim and hates Israel just as much as Mahmoud. He's just more secretive about it. That's what I think, at least.

Never attribute to malice that which may be explained by stupidity.
Corlyss
Contessa d'EM, a carbon-based life form

jbuck919
Military Band Specialist
Posts: 26867
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:15 pm
Location: Stony Creek, New York

Re: US ponders denying Israel arms needed for conflict with Iran

Post by jbuck919 » Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:42 am

There is one thing Israel, at least as manifested by the governments it has had so far, and its neighbors have in common that Americans lack as a character trait: They are in no hurry. They know that all the unpleasantness over settlements is not much more than a rhetorical blip that will have no long-term effect on support from the US or, in general, their future prosperity, and the opinion of the rest of the world means nothing to them. They only have to be fundamentally what they are to be in our good graces, and have no qualms about taking advantage of that. In plain English, they have us over a barrel. Therefore they proceed to build neo-biblical Israel whether it is right or not, and it is wrong.

What should we do about it? Why, keep up the rhetoric, of course. And live with its futility. And cope with our infuriation for having to do so.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

SaulChanukah

Re: US ponders denying Israel arms needed for conflict with Iran

Post by SaulChanukah » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:22 am

jbuck919 wrote:There is one thing Israel, at least as manifested by the governments it has had so far, and its neighbors have in common that Americans lack as a character trait: They are in no hurry. They know that all the unpleasantness over settlements is not much more than a rhetorical blip that will have no long-term effect on support from the US or, in general, their future prosperity, and the opinion of the rest of the world means nothing to them. They only have to be fundamentally what they are to be in our good graces, and have no qualms about taking advantage of that. In plain English, they have us over a barrel. Therefore they proceed to build neo-biblical Israel whether it is right or not, and it is wrong.

What should we do about it? Why, keep up the rhetoric, of course. And live with its futility. And cope with our infuriation for having to do so.
Not only biblical, they also won the land after been attacked, therefore its their land now and they can build anywhere they want.

Barry
Posts: 10230
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 3:50 pm

Re: US ponders denying Israel arms needed for conflict with Iran

Post by Barry » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:51 am

SaulChanukah wrote: Not only biblical, they also won the land after been attacked, therefore its their land now and they can build anywhere they want.
While I agree with the argument that from the standpoint of what is just, because Israel was repeatedly attacked by its neighbors, they were within their rights to take some of the land that was being used to launch those attacks, and that they land then becomes theirs to do what they wish with, common sense can't be thrown out the window altogether. It's great to be defiant, but its no secret that sooner or later, Israel is going to have to give up most of the land they won to avoid having an apartheid like situation. Barak just admitted that recently. While I'm not saying Israel should just give the land away now without worrying about the longterm security implications of doing that, it's also stupid of them to continue to take actions that will make the eventual deal that everyone knows is going to have to happen if Israel is going to survive as a Jewish state for many generations more and more difficult to accomplish at some point (when Israel really does have peace partners) IMO.

I'm afraid Bibi's right wing is killing him. First it was the diplomatic flap with Turkey; now this.
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea; but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." - Abraham Lincoln

"Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed." - Winston Churchill

"Before I refuse to take your questions, I have an opening statement." - Ronald Reagan

http://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pbp0hur ... re=related

SaulChanukah

Re: US ponders denying Israel arms needed for conflict with Iran

Post by SaulChanukah » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:21 am

Barry wrote:
SaulChanukah wrote: Not only biblical, they also won the land after been attacked, therefore its their land now and they can build anywhere they want.
While I agree with the argument that from the standpoint of what is just, because Israel was repeatedly attacked by its neighbors, they were within their rights to take some of the land that was being used to launch those attacks, and that they land then becomes theirs to do what they wish with, common sense can't be thrown out the window altogether. It's great to be defiant, but its no secret that sooner or later, Israel is going to have to give up most of the land they won to avoid having an apartheid like situation. Barak just admitted that recently. While I'm not saying Israel should just give the land away now without worrying about the longterm security implications of doing that, it's also stupid of them to continue to take actions that will make the eventual deal that everyone knows is going to have to happen if Israel is going to survive as a Jewish state for many generations more and more difficult to accomplish at some point (when Israel really does have peace partners) IMO.

I'm afraid Bibi's right wing is killing him. First it was the diplomatic flap with Turkey; now this.
I don't agree with your theory.

Israel should kick all these Arabs who want to destroy Israel from Israel itself and the West Bank and Gaza, and let their Arab brothers take care of them.
All of the land of Israel belong only to the Jewish people. Those who want to live there and practice their religion by been faithful to Israel can do so, and I have nothing against them.

The enemies of Israel?

All of them must be kicked out.

There will never be any peace with the Arabs, the Prophets of Israel already spoke about it. Only when the Messiah will come there will be peace.
All this peace process is a total waste of time, nothing positive will ever come out of it, because the Arabs don’t want peace.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 57 guests