Ah, those gentle, Tea Party patriots!

[Barry]

Barry, you don't think poverty and its resulting effect on the environment might have something to do
with people's behavior?

David,
I wouldn't completely discount it, but there has been so much research on the impact of not having stable families and two-parent households on children. And the black family didn't dissolve with 70 percent of children being born out of wedlock until the past generation or two. Nor has it broken down at anywhere near the same rate in economically depressed white areas. There are clearly cultural issues within the inner-city black community that are giving rise to this problem. And as I said to John, I'm of the opinion, based on the research that I've read, that most of the other problems in the underclass stem directly from the breakdown of the family.

If the problem was only poverty, the black family would have broken up much sooner; and the same problem would exist equally in poor white areas.

[Corlyss_D]

Barry, you don't think poverty and its resulting effect on the environment might have something to do with people's behavior?

There were poor blacks before welfare programs totally destroyed the inner city blacks. There weren't the kinds of rampant problems presented in the 25% of the black community trapped in the inner cities, and they didn't affect such large numbers of people. It's been extensively documented, starting with Moynihan in 1965, and is called the pathology of the underclass. What's worse, it's not limited to blacks; as the behaviors spread to Latinos and middle class whites, the societal problems only increase. It's difficult to look at the enablers and not blame them for creating the conditions in which the behaviors flourish.

[HoustonDavid]

I didn't say, nor mean to imply, that poverty was the only causitive factor, it just wasn't mentioned
in your discussions, and I still say it is a major factor. To be brutally honest, I would have to admit that
it is a Catch-22 whereby behavior is certainly a causitve factor resulting in poverty and environmental
deterioration and breakdown of the human condition in general. It is indeed a complex societal issue.