More Americans Give Up Citizenship to Avoid Rising Taxes

[living_stradivarius]

WSJ: More Americans Are Fleeing U.S. to Avoid Rising Taxes, More Aggressive IRS
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... cans-.html

Wall Street Journal, More Americans Give Up Citizenship As IRS Gets Aggressive Overseas, by Martin Vaughan:
The number of American citizens and green-card holders severing their ties with the U.S. soared in the latter part of 2009, amid looming U.S. tax increases and a more aggressive posture by the Internal Revenue Service towards Americans living overseas.
According to public records, just over 500 people worldwide renounced U.S. citizenship or permanent residency in the fourth quarter of 2009, the most recent period for which data are available. That is more people than have cut ties with the U.S. during all of 2007, and more than double the total expatriations in 2008.
An Ohio-born entrepreneur, now based in Switzerland, told Dow Jones he is considering turning in his U.S. passport. Mounting U.S. tax and reporting requirements are making potential business partners hesitate to do business with him, he said.
"I still do dearly love the U.S., and renouncing my citizenship is not something I take lightly. But more and more it is seeming like being part of a dysfunctional family," said the businessman, who asked that his name not be used for fear of retribution.

[jbuck919]

It is appropriate that someone who does not want to pay US taxes should not have the benefits of being a US citizen.

Avoiding US income taxes by renouncing citizenship is neither easy, nor immediate, nor necessarily free. The situation is complicated and can be researched by plugging the appropriate terms into Google.

[Ralph]

What an incalculable loss for America.

[Dennis Spath]

WSJ: More Americans Are Fleeing U.S. to Avoid Rising Taxes, More Aggressive IRS
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... cans-.html

Wall Street Journal, More Americans Give Up Citizenship As IRS Gets Aggressive Overseas, by Martin Vaughan:
The number of American citizens and green-card holders severing their ties with the U.S. soared in the latter part of 2009, amid looming U.S. tax increases and a more aggressive posture by the Internal Revenue Service towards Americans living overseas.
According to public records, just over 500 people worldwide renounced U.S. citizenship or permanent residency in the fourth quarter of 2009, the most recent period for which data are available. That is more people than have cut ties with the U.S. during all of 2007, and more than double the total expatriations in 2008.
An Ohio-born entrepreneur, now based in Switzerland, told Dow Jones he is considering turning in his U.S. passport. Mounting U.S. tax and reporting requirements are making potential business partners hesitate to do business with him, he said.
"I still do dearly love the U.S., and renouncing my citizenship is not something I take lightly. But more and more it is seeming like being part of a dysfunctional family," said the businessman, who asked that his name not be used for fear of retribution.

This sound rather strange, and perhaps politically motivated, given all of the horror stories we hear about European Nations and the taxes required to support their "Socialist" Healthcare and Social Welfare Systems.

[jbuck919]

WSJ: More Americans Are Fleeing U.S. to Avoid Rising Taxes, More Aggressive IRS
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... cans-.html

Wall Street Journal, More Americans Give Up Citizenship As IRS Gets Aggressive Overseas, by Martin Vaughan:
The number of American citizens and green-card holders severing their ties with the U.S. soared in the latter part of 2009, amid looming U.S. tax increases and a more aggressive posture by the Internal Revenue Service towards Americans living overseas.
According to public records, just over 500 people worldwide renounced U.S. citizenship or permanent residency in the fourth quarter of 2009, the most recent period for which data are available. That is more people than have cut ties with the U.S. during all of 2007, and more than double the total expatriations in 2008.
An Ohio-born entrepreneur, now based in Switzerland, told Dow Jones he is considering turning in his U.S. passport. Mounting U.S. tax and reporting requirements are making potential business partners hesitate to do business with him, he said.
"I still do dearly love the U.S., and renouncing my citizenship is not something I take lightly. But more and more it is seeming like being part of a dysfunctional family," said the businessman, who asked that his name not be used for fear of retribution.

This sound rather strange, and perhaps politically motivated, given all of the horror stories we hear about European Nations and the taxes required to support their "Socialist" Healthcare and Social Welfare Systems.

Well, they're not leaving for Sweden. The key is to find a country where they can be naturalized that does not tax the income of its residents abroad as the US does (Canada is apparently a prime choice) and then move to a country that does not tax foreign nationals, as the US also does for anyone spending more than 120 days a year here (a number that is too high for these people IMO).

[Dennis Spath]

It's so sad Uncle Samuel is picking on these patriotic Americans living abroad....reminiscent of the way Glen Beck is being victimized for speaking truth to power. As for them giving up their citizenship to avoid taxes, sounds like sour grapes to me, and they shouldn't let the door hit them in the backside on their way out!

[Teresa B]

It's so sad Uncle Samuel is picking on these patriotic Americans living abroad....reminiscent of the way Glen Beck is being victimized for speaking truth to power. As for them giving up their citizenship to avoid taxes, sounds like sour grapes to me, and they shouldn't let the door hit them in the backside on their way out!

Well said!

Teresa

[Jean]

I see no reason whatever to morn the loss of any American citizen who chooses not to live here. Any American who wants to reap any benefit from his/her citizenship, should pay taxes.

[Ralph]

"Taxes are the price we pay for civilization."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

[Brendan]

Wonder if there are cases of folk having to pay tax twice - one lot in the country they are working in and one for the IRS. I know my brother was charged more in tax than he earned one year because of this.

If folk are earning in a foreign country, using their services etc, why should Uncle Sam get a cut? And why are Green-card holders giving it up - they worked to become US citizens and now see it isn't viable or something?

My brother was offered a Green-card one year instead of a raise. He laughed at them, then demanded the cash + a return ticket to Australia.

[Jean]

If a person lives in another country, he is using that countries services daily. Therefore, his tax dollars (or whatever equivalent) are first paid to that country. However, being an American citizen too, presumably he is also has available to him everything being a US citizen has to offer. This includes the right to come back at anytime, to vote, certain protections and he has the US Embassy available to him.

Further, the US tax system offers a foreign tax credit to avoid double taxation. The US citizen that works abroad and is taxed on his earnings in the other countyry can deduct those taxes paid from his US tax Form 1040. The downside financially is that if he lives and works in a country with a lower tax rate, his total earnings are ultimately subject to the US tax rates.
He does not get "hit twice" on the same dollar earned.

[jbuck919]

If a person lives in another country, he is using that countries services daily. Therefore, his tax dollars (or whatever equivalent) are first paid to that country. However, being an American citizen too, presumably he is also has available to him everything being a US citizen has to offer. This includes the right to come back at anytime, to vote, certain protections and he has the US Embassy available to him.

Further, the US tax system offers a foreign tax credit to avoid double taxation. The US citizen that works abroad and is taxed on his earnings in the other countyry can deduct those taxes paid from his US tax Form 1040. The downside financially is that if he lives and works in a country with a lower tax rate, his total earnings are ultimately subject to the US tax rates.
He does not get "hit twice" on the same dollar earned.

In addition, the first $90,000-$103,000 (approximately, depending on living expenses) of income earned abroad is excluded from US income tax absolutely. (This does not apply to US government employees, including military, working and living abroad, in case anyone is wondering about me and Germany, where I also had to continue to pay New York State income tax.) This exclusion was, believe it or not, initially established (at lower levels then) as an incentive for the benefit of Americans who wanted to accept job offers abroad. The reason I know this is that some years ago I researched the system of international schools, which pay a paltry amount and rely on the tax exclusion for their recruitment (most of the countries in which they are located do not tax the income of foreign nationals).

The people this thread is referring to have great wealth. It is not a great stretch to understand that it is of no consequence to them what country they are a citizen of, as long as it is in the civilized world (i.e., the world that would be defended by the US anyway in a worst-case scenario). Furthermore, in addition to taxes on their unearned income (something some Republicans are obsessed with eliminating in the US), they are trying to avoid the inheritance tax on large estates (ditto). Those taxes operate (properly, IMO) under a societal agenda of not concentrating even more wealth in the hands of a few, which the individuals in question do not consider to be their problem.

Understanding them does not mean it is not still appropriate to say "good riddance."

[Brendan]

So why is that so many ex-Pat Americans of my own acquaintance complain about the double-taxation? I'd have to check with them, as I know nothing about the US tax system, but that doesn't square with the reality my friends describe. Oftern thety are still being paid from a US cost-centre, but still have to pay full tax here. Their permanent residence is wherever either government would like it to be for tax purposes.

In my brother's case four governments wanted the full monty one year (the Oz financial year isn;t the same as the USA, which causes other problems) - he came back to Oz, started work for an American company who dragged him to Omaha for months to prepare for the Asia-Pacific data centre move from Hong Kong to Sydney, which happned at the same time as the hand-over to China.

These are not wealthy people, but standard modern workers (most I know are in I.T. just earning salary) whose companies often send them overseas or offer them jobs overseas they expect them to take. The truly wealthy couldn't care less about a move like this.

If you do not wish to have ordinary, working citizens that spread American values and culture elsewhere, gain experience of other countries and cultures - well, that just shows insularity, ignorance and bigotry to my mind.

Why no mention of the Green-card holders, I wonder?

Modern governments gauge for evey penny they can, however they can. How else to pay for all the useless PC social engineering programs?

[Jean]

All I can say is that your brother should check and make sure he has an accountant familiar with foreign tax credits and issues. If he works abroad for an American company, he most certainly should not be penalized tax wise. It also makes a difference where his checks are issued from, the US or a local entity.
That is not the same as an ex-pat who has decided to reside in and work for a foreign company, or be self-employed in a foreign company.

Also, Jbuck is correct in saying that those that have tax issues, who live and work abroad, are usually those of significant wealth. Frequently this comes up with earnings from foreign investments (which is a whole other deal than wage earnings.) Also, some individuals may not want to enter into partnerships with Americans living abroad because that creates a requirement for the reporting of partner earnings the US.

I still stand by my opinion that US citizens living and earning abroad, still owe a tax debt. If they feel they get nothing from their citizenship, then they should give it up. Simple imo.

[Brendan]

All the folk I know are salary earners - and my brother has paid so many lawyers here, in Honkers and the US that he's broke. The wealthy don't care less.

You are talking through your hat, to be polite. Typical ignorant insular Yank, to be not so poilite.

[RebLem]

Let us review. From the Wikipedia article on Obama Cabinet confirmations:

Geithner's employer at the time, the International Monetary Fund, gives its American employees the employer's half of the payroll taxes, expecting that the employees will deposit the money with the Internal Revenue Service.[26] A report from the Senate Finance Committee documented Geithner's errors.[27] While working for IMF, Geithner signed a tax worksheet stating his "obligation of the U.S. Social Security tax, which I will pay on my fund income"[27] and another annual worksheet stating "I wish to apply for tax allowance of U.S. federal and state income taxes and the difference between the 'self-employed' and 'employed' obligation of the U.S. Social Security tax which I will pay on my Fund income."[28]

In a statement to the Senate panel considering his nomination, Geithner called the tax issues "careless", "avoidable", and "unintentional" errors, and he said he wanted to "apologize to the committee for putting you in the position of having to spend so much time on these issues."[23] Geithner testified that he used TurboTax to prepare his own return and that the tax errors are his own responsibility.[29] The Washington Post quoted a tax expert who said that TurboTax has not been programmed to handle self-employment taxes when the user identifies himself as being employed.[30] Geithner said at the hearing that he was always under the impression that he was an employee, not a self-employed contractor,[30] while he served as director of the Policy Development and Review Department of IMF.[31]

Commentator Michelle Malkin posted on her web site, "IRS employment application packets notify potential workers that the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration vets all candidates and current employees 'who have violated or are violating laws, rules, or regulations related to the performance of their duties.' President-elect Obama is standing by a nominee who would oversee the IRS, but might not even qualify for a lesser job at the agency."[32] Former Speaker of the House of Representatives Newt Gingrich, who also opposes his nomination said, "The IRS did not fine him. Ask small businesses how many of them think they could avoid paying self-employment Social Security and Medicare taxes for seven years and not be fined."[24] "Had he not been nominated for Treasury Secretary it's doubtful that he would have ever paid these taxes," Republican Senator Lindsay Graham supported Geithner's nomination, calling him "very, very competent" and "the right guy" for Secretary of the Treasury.[33]

On January 26, 2009, the U.S. Senate confirmed Geithner's appointment by a vote of 60–34.[34][35] Geithner was sworn in as Treasury Secretary by Vice President Joe Biden and witnessed by President Barack Obama.[36]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmati ... e_Treasury

A crackdown on Americans working abroad to get them to pay taxes they had been getting away with not paying was part of the deal through which Geithner got confirmed. Now, Republicants are criticizing Geithner for doing what they insisted he do.

From time to time, the Nabob Of Nibley comes in here all wide-eyed and innocent, wondering why Democrats think Republicants are evil.

This is why.

[keaggy220]

It's so sad Uncle Samuel is picking on these patriotic Americans living abroad....reminiscent of the way Glen Beck is being victimized for speaking truth to power. As for them giving up their citizenship to avoid taxes, sounds like sour grapes to me, and they shouldn't let the door hit them in the backside on their way out!

I agree with you. We need patriots to fight the good fight against government tyranny and these people are obviously only loyal to their money.

However, heavy burdens on businesses and individuals eventually leads to this behavior. Many localities and states have found that "pressing the easy button" and raising taxes whenever there is a budget shortfall eventually motivates high-end revenue producers to move out of their particular government confiscation territory and move to a more fiscally conservative and responsible confiscation territory. California and New Jersey are prime examples of the liberal endgame.

[jbuck919]

It's so sad Uncle Samuel is picking on these patriotic Americans living abroad....reminiscent of the way Glen Beck is being victimized for speaking truth to power. As for them giving up their citizenship to avoid taxes, sounds like sour grapes to me, and they shouldn't let the door hit them in the backside on their way out!

I agree with you. We need patriots to fight the good fight against government tyranny and these people are obviously only loyal to their money.

However, heavy burdens on businesses and individuals eventually leads to this behavior. Many localities and states have found that "pressing the easy button" and raising taxes whenever there is a budget shortfall eventually motivates high-end revenue producers to move out of that particular government confiscation territory. California and New Jersey are prime examples of the liberal endgame.

These are individuals who do not want to pay any tax, anywhere on any of the income derived from their personal wealth. Whatever country would put up with such deserves them. Features of the tax code that tend to inhibit business investment in the US are a separate issue, which, I agree, goes woefully unaddressed.

[keaggy220]

It's so sad Uncle Samuel is picking on these patriotic Americans living abroad....reminiscent of the way Glen Beck is being victimized for speaking truth to power. As for them giving up their citizenship to avoid taxes, sounds like sour grapes to me, and they shouldn't let the door hit them in the backside on their way out!

I agree with you. We need patriots to fight the good fight against government tyranny and these people are obviously only loyal to their money.

However, heavy burdens on businesses and individuals eventually leads to this behavior. Many localities and states have found that "pressing the easy button" and raising taxes whenever there is a budget shortfall eventually motivates high-end revenue producers to move out of that particular government confiscation territory. California and New Jersey are prime examples of the liberal endgame.

These are individuals who do not want to pay any tax, anywhere on any of the income derived from their personal wealth. Whatever country would put up with such deserves them. Features of the tax code that tend to inhibit business investment in the US are a separate issue, which, I agree, goes woefully unaddressed.

I'm for going back to the Revenue Act of 1894. That should be enough to handle basic federal services. Let the states and localities worry about the rest...

[Dennis Spath]

It's so sad Uncle Samuel is picking on these patriotic Americans living abroad....reminiscent of the way Glen Beck is being victimized for speaking truth to power. As for them giving up their citizenship to avoid taxes, sounds like sour grapes to me, and they shouldn't let the door hit them in the backside on their way out!

I agree with you. We need patriots to fight the good fight against government tyranny and these people are obviously only loyal to their money.

However, heavy burdens on businesses and individuals eventually leads to this behavior. Many localities and states have found that "pressing the easy button" and raising taxes whenever there is a budget shortfall eventually motivates high-end revenue producers to move out of that particular government confiscation territory. California and New Jersey are prime examples of the liberal endgame.

These are individuals who do not want to pay any tax, anywhere on any of the income derived from their personal wealth. Whatever country would put up with such deserves them. Features of the tax code that tend to inhibit business investment in the US are a separate issue, which, I agree, goes woefully unaddressed.

I'm for going back to the Revenue Act of 1894. That should be enough to handle basic federal services. Let the states and localities worry about the rest...

And Keaggy, what about drawing your water from a well and enjoying the two holer outhouse also??

[keaggy220]

It's so sad Uncle Samuel is picking on these patriotic Americans living abroad....reminiscent of the way Glen Beck is being victimized for speaking truth to power. As for them giving up their citizenship to avoid taxes, sounds like sour grapes to me, and they shouldn't let the door hit them in the backside on their way out!

I agree with you. We need patriots to fight the good fight against government tyranny and these people are obviously only loyal to their money.

However, heavy burdens on businesses and individuals eventually leads to this behavior. Many localities and states have found that "pressing the easy button" and raising taxes whenever there is a budget shortfall eventually motivates high-end revenue producers to move out of that particular government confiscation territory. California and New Jersey are prime examples of the liberal endgame.

These are individuals who do not want to pay any tax, anywhere on any of the income derived from their personal wealth. Whatever country would put up with such deserves them. Features of the tax code that tend to inhibit business investment in the US are a separate issue, which, I agree, goes woefully unaddressed.

I'm for going back to the Revenue Act of 1894. That should be enough to handle basic federal services. Let the states and localities worry about the rest...

And Keaggy, what about drawing your water from a well and enjoying the two holer outhouse also??

No question, I'd rather have inconvenience than government control - no contest... However, I'm convinced we'd be far better off with a much, much smaller government.