Elie Wiesel open letter to Obama

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SaulChanukah

Elie Wiesel open letter to Obama

Post by SaulChanukah » Sat Apr 17, 2010 8:40 pm

For Jerusalem

It was inevitable: Jerusalem once again is at the center of political debates and international storms. New and old tensions surface at a disturbing pace. Seventeen times destroyed and seventeen times rebuilt, it is still in the middle of diplomatic confrontations that could lead to armed conflict. Neither Athens nor Rome has aroused that many passions.

For me, the Jew that I am, Jerusalem is above politics. It is mentioned more than six hundred times in Scripture-and not a single time in the Koran. Its presence in Jewish history is overwhelming. There is no more moving prayer in Jewish history than the one expressing our yearning to return to Jerusalem. To many theologians, it IS Jewish history, to many poets, a source of inspiration. It belongs to the Jewish people and is much more than a city, it is what binds one Jew to another in a way that remains hard to explain. When a Jew visits Jerusalem for the first time, it is not the first time; it is a homecoming. The first song I heard was my mother's lullaby about and for Jerusalem. Its sadness and its joy are part of our collective memory.

Since King David took Jerusalem as his capital, Jews have dwelled inside its walls with only two interruptions; when Roman invaders forbade them access to the city and again, when under Jordanian occupation. Jews, regardless of nationality, were refused entry into the old Jewish quarter to meditate and pray at the Wall, the last vestige of Solomon's temple. It is important to remember: had Jordan not joined Egypt and Syria in the 1967 war against Israel, the old city of Jerusalem would still be Arab. Clearly, while Jews were ready to die for Jerusalem they would not kill for Jerusalem.

Today, for the first time in history, Jews, Christians and Muslims all may freely worship at their shrines. And, contrary to certain media reports, Jews, Christians and Muslims ARE allowed to build their homes anywhere in the city. The anguish over Jerusalem is not about real estate but about memory.

What is the solution? Pressure will not produce a solution. Is there a solution? There must be, there will be. Why tackle the most complex and sensitive problem prematurely? Why not first take steps which will allow the Israeli and Palestinian communities to find ways to live together in an atmosphere of security. Why not leave the most difficult, the most sensitive issue, for such a time?

Jerusalem must remain the world's Jewish spiritual capital, not a symbol of anguish and bitterness, but a symbol of trust and hope. As the Hasidic master Rebbe Nahman of Bratslav said, "Everything in this world has a heart; the heart itself has its own heart."

Jerusalem is the heart of our heart, the soul of our soul.

— Elie Wiesel

jack stowaway
Posts: 922
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:17 pm

Re: Elie Wiesel open letter to Obama

Post by jack stowaway » Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:52 am

Saul,

I must say --even as a Christian agnostic, the posts you cite on Judaism are frequently very moving and very eloquent, as is your own heartfelt faith in your religion. I grew up a Catholic, attended a Catholic school, served as an altar boy etc but in all of my years of Catholic indoctrination, the fact that Jesus was an Orthodox Jew --and thus only properly understandable in that context, was never once mentioned. As a result of your posts, I look at Jesus the man in a wholly different light --not a diminished light, but a clearer light.

SaulChanukah

Re: Elie Wiesel open letter to Obama

Post by SaulChanukah » Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:05 am

jack stowaway wrote:Saul,

I must say --even as a Christian agnostic, the posts you cite on Judaism are frequently very moving and very eloquent, as is your own heartfelt faith in your religion. I grew up a Catholic, attended a Catholic school, served as an altar boy etc but in all of my years of Catholic indoctrination, the fact that Jesus was an Orthodox Jew --and thus only properly understandable in that context, was never once mentioned. As a result of your posts, I look at Jesus the man in a wholly different light --not a diminished light, but a clearer light.
Jack, thank you for your comment.

It was so often the case that many Christians were indoctrinated to believe that Jesus was a Christian, Catholic, and any other thing, and only on a marginal basis, was a Jew. When the truth is that Jesus was nothing else but an Orthodox Jew.
You must understand that he was a disciple of the Great Tana, Rabbi Yehoshua Ben Perahyia, one of the great Rabbis of the Talmudic period. People don't have any idea to the magnitude of this statement. They don't know how great the Tanaim were, the Talmudic Rabbis. There would have been no chance in the world that Jesus would have achieved what he achieved if he didn’t posses some great spiritual level, and there is nothing to be surprised about if he indeed had this great spiritual level, for after all he was the disciple of such a great Orthodox Jewish Rabbi. But as Jewish teachings say, that the highest a person can go spiritually, the lowest he can become if he chooses to use his spirituality to the opposite negative direction, as King Solomon famously declared :"This in opposite to this, God had made", with the spiritual powers one has, he can reach the stars or become lower then the animals, the choice is entirely his.

Jesus had decided to use all the wisdom and spirituality he had mastered from his great Rabbi and use it against his own people and his own religion , especially against his own Rabbi. The Talmud openly records precisely what Jesus did, and why.

Jesus had behaved disrespectfully to his Rabbi, you must understand that in Judaism, disrespecting your Rabbi is a great sin, as the famous story recorded in the Book of Samuel when Samuel was a young boy he declared an Halachic Ruling in front of his Rabbi, Eli, and Eli's anger could have killed Samuel, and Hanna, Samuel's mother begged Eli to spare the boy. Eli had responded to Hanna and said that he will pray to God that he would grant her a boy of a greater stature then Samuel, to that Hannah responded that she prayed so many years after not been able to give birth, for this boy, this particular boy, and she wants no other in his stead.

In Judaism, declaring an Halachic ruling in front of your Rabbi is extremely sinful, and is punishable by death, it also says that anyone that ridicules the words of the Sages of Israel will inherit hell.

Jesus disrespected his Rabbi by accusing him of some improper behavior, it is mind boggling how he would have dared to cast such a blame at one of the Towers of Judaism, the Great Rabbi Perahiya. The Rabbi then was offended by his student's remarks and threw him out of his Yeshiva (Jewish learning center). Three times Jesus sent messengers to the Rabbi asking him to forgive him, but the Rabbi refused to forgive him and let him back to the Yeshiva. After the third time, Jesus decided to 'get back' at his Rabbi, by creating a heretic movement, and that would surly anger his Rabbi. It is important to understand that Jesus would have never been successful in creating such a huge lie with so many followers if he indeed didn’t posses a high spiritual level, from his success in creating a lie, one could just imagine how powerful he would have been in promoting the truth of the Torah and gaining even a great spiritual level within his own faith, Judaism.

Maimonides, the world famous Rabbi and Philosopher who wrote famous works such as 'The Mighty Hand' and 'The Guide to the Perplexed' among others, lived in Spain some 850 years ago, and is considered and accepted all throughout the House of Israel as one of its greatest Rabbis of All Times and one of its greatest Leaders.

He explains in his writings why did God let Jesus and Mohamed continue with their false preaching all around the world. He explains that God's thoughts are not the same as our thoughts and that since God's vision of the end of time is that all of humanity will know him and accept him as the One true and only God of the universe, he didn’t stop both of these false prophets, even though he didn’t make them to choose their course. Its important to understand that this vision of universal acceptance of the God of Israel is a great light of such magnitude that the pagans of the world wouldn’t be able to accept its extreme glowing and power, just like someone who was in darkness for so many years and suddenly a great light of extreme intensity is directed at him, he would never be able to accept it, there has to be some kind of preparation for that Great Light of the Future. So God didn’t hinder Jesus and Mohamed because these two false prophets introduced to the Pagan World all the way to the four corners of the world the concept of the God of Israel. Though they did so in a twisted way, and in a dark way, still the pagans of the world will have some kind of association of the light of truth, even though it was presented with a mixture of darkness. But when the true and only Jewish Messiah will come to proclaim to all of humanity the total truth of God, the Gentile world will be prepared to accept this great light and will not break by its power. They will say to those who taught them, that they have given them lies, and then they will recognize the truth, the only truth that ever exited, the God of Israel.

These are Maimonides' words, written in his Laws of Kings (11,4):

"Even Jesus the Christian, who thought he was the Messiah... was the subject of a prophesy in the Book of Daniel (11, 14): "...also the renegades of your people will exalt themselves to fulfill the vision - but they will stumble." Could there be a greater stumbling block than this [Jesus]? For all the prophets spoke of the Messiah who will redeem and save Israel, who will ingather all its exiles, and who will strengthen them in the fulfillment of the Torah's commandments - while he [Jesus] caused Israel to be killed by the sword, their remnants to be dispersed and humiliated, the Torah to be switched for something else, and most of the world to worship a God other than the God of Israel! But - the thoughts of God cannot be fathomed by human minds. For our ways are not like His, and our thoughts are not like His. All these activities of Jesus the Christian, and the Ishmaelite who came after him, are all for the purpose of paving the way for the true King Messiah, and preparing the entire world to worship God together, as is written (Tzefaniah 3,9): 'For then I will convert the nations to a pure language, that they may all call in the name of God and serve Him together.'

"How will this work? For by then, the world will already be filled with the idea of Messiah, and Torah, and commandments, even in far-off islands and in closed-hearted nations, where they engage in discussions on the Torah's commandments: some say that the Torah's commandments are true but are no longer binding in these times, while others say that there are hidden, deep meanings to them, and that the Messiah has come and revealed their hidden secrets. But when the true King Messiah arrives, and will succeed and will raise them up, all the peoples will immediately realize that they had been taught lies by their forefathers, and that their ancestors and prophets had misled them."



Therefore the existence of Christianity and Islam is used by God as a preparation for the world to witness the Great Light of Truth that will shine in the end of days, when the Messiah will come.

Best,

Saul

josé echenique
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Re: Elie Wiesel open letter to Obama

Post by josé echenique » Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:31 am

Dear Saul,

If Jesus was not the "real" Messiah, He certainly made a better Messiah than anyone else in the past 2000 years.

Cyril Ignatius
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Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Elie Wiesel open letter to Obama

Post by Cyril Ignatius » Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:40 am

"Christian Agnostic"??? There is no such thing. And yet again - Maybe at another level, you are absolutely right. After studying the Catholic Church in America - and where it went over the course of the 20th Century; that is, what happened to Catholic institutions, Catholic diocese' and the liturgy - this term you use here just might be an excellent one indeed!

jack stowaway wrote:Saul,

I must say --even as a Christian agnostic, the posts you cite on Judaism are frequently very moving and very eloquent, as is your own heartfelt faith in your religion. I grew up a Catholic, attended a Catholic school, served as an altar boy etc but in all of my years of Catholic indoctrination, the fact that Jesus was an Orthodox Jew --and thus only properly understandable in that context, was never once mentioned. As a result of your posts, I look at Jesus the man in a wholly different light --not a diminished light, but a clearer light.
Cyril Ignatius

jack stowaway
Posts: 922
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:17 pm

Re: Elie Wiesel open letter to Obama

Post by jack stowaway » Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:42 pm

Cyril,

I refer to myself as such because, although no longer certain of the existence of God (and absolutely rejecting the concept of Trinity), my 'being-in-the-world' has been irrevocably shaped by Christian teaching and a Catholic upbringing. I may reject Christian doctrine, but its larger impress informs my conduct and understanding.

SaulChanukah

Re: Elie Wiesel open letter to Obama

Post by SaulChanukah » Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:58 pm

josé echenique wrote:Dear Saul,

If Jesus was not the "real" Messiah, He certainly made a better Messiah than anyone else in the past 2000 years.
The Jewish Messiah as the Torah says didn’t come yet, and when he will come , he will do everything that the Torah says that he will do, there will not be any doubt.
There were a number of people throughout history that claimed that they were the Jewish messiah, and they all turned out to be false, Jesus was not the only one who deceived people who didn’t know any better, but the Jewish people, since only they have the clear vision entrusted to them in the torah by God of who this future king will be and what will be his tasks, were not fooled, and they will never be fooled. As long as all the requirements of the future Jewish messiah are met, anyone who claims to be that Messiah without fulfilling these requirements, is rendered to be a false prophet.

There will be no second chances, this great King from the House of David will be a regular human being, a mortal, and with the spirit of wisdom and holiness , he will guide all of humanity to embrace and know the God of Israel. In the hundreds of thousands of pages in the entire corpus of Jewish scriptures, there is categorically nothing about a 'second coming'. In fact the Messiah must do all the tasks when he comes first, and if he dies without fulfilling all of these duties and tasks , then he most certainly not the Messiah that God had envisioned for the Jewish people.
According to Jewish sources, when the future Jewish Messiah will do every single thing that is required of him, years will pass, and he will die, just like a regular human being, and he will leave a son, to sit on his throne. All of the people of the world will know and embrace God, no one else besides God will ever be worshiped, the devil will be destroyed, there will be only goodness and abundance of prosperity, no more wars, no more battles and conflicts, no more fighting, no more hate, everyone will live in harmony.

The clear truth of the one true God of Israel will be accepted by every living soul, man woman and child, there wont be any reason for wars and conflicts, as a result people will be busy with knowing God and drawing closer to him, and all of humanity will accept the Jewish People's special status in this world, the Jews will be Kings and Queens, for they have always believed in the God of Israel even in the darkest and most difficult times and circumstances, and they have never forgotten their God even against formidable odds and difficulties, when the nations of the world were chasing them and persecuting them.

Then they will know that the Jewish people's declaration that they were Chosen Nation, God's Nation was not in vain and had nothing to do with arrogance, but in fact it was a simple declaration of reality and fact. Everyone will love the Jewish People and look for them so that they will teach them the ways of God.

Cheers,

Saul

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