Do I Need to YELL in Order to Get Your Attention?!

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dulcinea
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Do I Need to YELL in Order to Get Your Attention?!

Post by dulcinea » Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:56 pm

A dishwasher at Sonny's Real Pit Bar-B-Q has asked me about restaurants where he could apply for work as a server. Today I went to Red Lobster, and I asked the lady at the front desk for an application. She went to summon someone else, and when she returned--smiling that sickly simpering sneer that untermenschen always smile to me when they are about to insult me--, she asked me to talk to the man because she had not understood me.
I glared at her, and told her: Go to Hell in a tone that signified GO F--- YOUR FATHER, YOU GODDAMN C--- S-----!--; and stormed out in a fury, vowing never to return to that Red Lobster location.
After living 27 years in Tampa, I have absolutely no tolerance for gollums who make fun of me by pretending not to understand me! Am I to conclude that barking in anger is a more effective way of communication than talking softly in a normal conversational mode???!!!
Let every thing that has breath praise the Lord! Alleluya!

HoustonDavid
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Re: Do I Need to YELL in Order to Get Your Attention?!

Post by HoustonDavid » Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:07 pm

If you were to scream:
dulcinea wrote:GO F--- YOUR FATHER, YOU GODDAMN C--- S-----!--;
in the next establishment you go into, you would probably find yourself in handcuffs and charged
with "Disturbing The Peace" or even "Assault".
"May You be born in interesting (maybe confusing?) times" - Chinese Proverb (or Curse)

jbuck919
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Re: Do I Need to YELL in Order to Get Your Attention?!

Post by jbuck919 » Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:09 pm

Am I the only one who is confused as to exactly why she might have claimed she could not understand you? Are we talking anti-Latina here?

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

dulcinea
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Re: Do I Need to YELL in Order to Get Your Attention?!

Post by dulcinea » Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:30 pm

jbuck919 wrote:Am I the only one who is confused as to exactly why she might have claimed she could not understand you? Are we talking anti-Latina here?
I wish I knew. It regularly happens on the same day that, whereas most people understand me without ever suggesting that I repeat what I said, someone will come up with the asinine remark that they don't speak Spanish, and will even summon ,,translators'' whose Sp is so poor that it's hardly recognisable as the official language of the Kingdom of Spain.
Let every thing that has breath praise the Lord! Alleluya!

RebLem
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Re: Do I Need to YELL in Order to Get Your Attention?!

Post by RebLem » Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:42 pm

dulcy--there are any number of people here, including our esteemed but currently absent moderator, the Nabob of Nibley, who will tell you that racism is dead as a doornail in America. You must be imagining things.
Don't drink and drive. You might spill it.--J. Eugene Baker, aka my late father
"We're not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term."--Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S. Carolina.
"Racism is America's Original Sin."--Francis Cardinal George, former Roman Catholic Archbishop of Chicago.

piston
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Re: Do I Need to YELL in Order to Get Your Attention?!

Post by piston » Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:57 pm

Yeah, very dead, no matter the median educational level. It's a threshold we all crossed during the Civil War. Ever since, racism has evaporated.

Such a great war! Contemporaries knew that. They all wrote to their relatives that we, many generations later, would appreciate the nobility of their deeds. [cynical, needless to say]
In the eyes of those lovers of perfection, a work is never finished—a word that for them has no sense—but abandoned....(Paul Valéry)

jbuck919
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Re: Do I Need to YELL in Order to Get Your Attention?!

Post by jbuck919 » Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:19 pm

piston wrote:Yeah, very dead, no matter the median educational level. It's a threshold we all crossed during the Civil War. Ever since, racism has evaporated.

Such a great war! Contemporaries knew that. They all wrote to their relatives that we, many generations later, would appreciate the nobility of their deeds. [cynical, needless to say]
Jacques, you of all our members will be interested in this: My father, who unlike me grew up around here and was second generation of Quebec folk who immigrated for the mill work, insists that there was significant discrimination against Franco-Americans during his and his father's generation (there has been no trace of it in my lifetime).

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

piston
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Re: Do I Need to YELL in Order to Get Your Attention?!

Post by piston » Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:29 pm

jbuck919 wrote:
piston wrote:Yeah, very dead, no matter the median educational level. It's a threshold we all crossed during the Civil War. Ever since, racism has evaporated.

Such a great war! Contemporaries knew that. They all wrote to their relatives that we, many generations later, would appreciate the nobility of their deeds. [cynical, needless to say]
Jacques, you of all our members will be interested in this: My father, who unlike me grew up around here and was second generation of Quebec folk who immigrated for the mill work, insists that there was significant discrimination against Franco-Americans during his and his father's generation (there has been no trace of it in my lifetime).
First of all, John, we were in that Civil War, tens of thousand of us. Did you know that "crimping" was prevalent along the Canada-US border, in places like Coaticook? Young men would be abducted by agents, some of them French Canadians, after being offered doped up tea or just a lot of booze. When they fully realized what had happened to them, were thrown into combat, and attempted "to return home," several of them were executed for "treason."

As for how Franco-Americans were perceived beginning in the 1880s, the answer is pretty straightforward: we were the "Chinese of the Eastern States." IOW, we were the "coolies" of the Northeastern economy.

For several decades, French Canadian immigrants were perceived with little more respect than the way Spanish-speaking immigrants are perceived today. Interestingly, though, they, the French Canadians and the Latinos, were exempted from the immigration quotas of xenophobic America, during the 1920s.

Apparently, or should I say evidently, several Franco Americans played an important role as translators and "liaisons" in France, in 1917-1918. Suddenly, their linguistic knowledge was appreciated.
In the eyes of those lovers of perfection, a work is never finished—a word that for them has no sense—but abandoned....(Paul Valéry)

Barry
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Re: Do I Need to YELL in Order to Get Your Attention?!

Post by Barry » Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:18 pm

RebLem wrote:dulcy--there are any number of people here, including our esteemed but currently absent moderator, the Nabob of Nibley, who will tell you that racism is dead as a doornail in America. You must be imagining things.
That's a straw man argument, Rob. What the lady did to Dulcinea was terrible. But your above line is simply not true. Nobody on here has EVER said racism is dead in this country. People have said it's not the all-consuming American past-time that you think it is and have objected to the characterization of the U.S. as a racist country. But that's hardly the same thing as saying there is no racism.
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea; but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." - Abraham Lincoln

"Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed." - Winston Churchill

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Jean
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Re: Do I Need to YELL in Order to Get Your Attention?!

Post by Jean » Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:35 am

Hmmm... I'm not sure why it should be assumed that not understaing someone's accent is necessarily racism. I have on many occassions run into to someone whom, try as I might, I couldm noy understand...yet my daughter or someone else with me chad no difficulty.

I can't give a definitive scientific reason for this, but I liken it to a kind of tine deafness for certain sounds.
Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. - Albert Einstein

I haven't got the slightest idea how to change people, but still I keep a long list of prospective candidates just in case I should ever figure it out - David Sedaris (Naked)

jbuck919
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Re: Do I Need to YELL in Order to Get Your Attention?!

Post by jbuck919 » Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:41 am

Jean wrote:Hmmm... I'm not sure why it should be assumed that not understaing someone's accent is necessarily racism. I have on many occassions run into to someone whom, try as I might, I couldm noy understand...yet my daughter or someone else with me chad no difficulty.

I can't give a definitive scientific reason for this, but I liken it to a kind of tine deafness for certain sounds.
Both of my parents claim that they cannot understand non-standard-American accents, in particular characters speaking with British accents in movies. If it's genetic, fortunately they both carry the recessive characteristic. :)

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

diegobueno
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Re: Do I Need to YELL in Order to Get Your Attention?!

Post by diegobueno » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:11 am

This reminds me of a day when I was a little kid. In the early spring of 1961 my parents decided to take a little trip down to see Mammoth Caves in Kentucky. The first morning there, my father spotted a little tree with brilliant red blossoms attached directly to the branches. He asked a passer-by what kind of tree that was, and the response was
"Rayyyed Buuuuuu....". No one in the family had ever been below the Mason-Dixon line, and my father had not been able to quite catch what the person had said, so he asked again, and got an identical reply, which was still not comprehended. They went back and forth several times with the answers being identical, though more forcefully enunciated, until my father finally understood that the person had been trying to tell us that the tree was a Red Bud.

DavidRoss
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Re: Do I Need to YELL in Order to Get Your Attention?!

Post by DavidRoss » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:26 am

dulcinea wrote:A dishwasher at Sonny's Real Pit Bar-B-Q has asked me about restaurants where he could apply for work as a server. Today I went to Red Lobster, and I asked the lady at the front desk for an application. She went to summon someone else, and when she returned--smiling that sickly simpering sneer that untermenschen always smile to me when they are about to insult me--, she asked me to talk to the man because she had not understood me.
I glared at her, and told her: Go to Hell in a tone that signified GO F--- YOUR FATHER, YOU GODDAMN C--- S-----!--; and stormed out in a fury, vowing never to return to that Red Lobster location.
After living 27 years in Tampa, I have absolutely no tolerance for gollums who make fun of me by pretending not to understand me! Am I to conclude that barking in anger is a more effective way of communication than talking softly in a normal conversational mode???!!!
Is it possible that the "gollums" (?) are not "pretending not to understand," but actually don't understand, due to a combination of your accent and their ill-attuned hearing? Could it be that you are more than a little touchy about such situations, due to incidents in the past, and so are predisposed to interpret them in the worst possible light? And if this has happened before, as your story suggests, might you expect such difficulty on some occasions and learn to regard them as opportunities to practice the virtues of patience and tolerance, cheerfully accepting the challenge instead of being enraged by it?

Your reading of the situation you describe might well be absolutely right. I wasn't there; if I had been, I might have seen it just like you. I've certainly experienced similar encounters myself. But based on the incidents you relate, it also sounds possible that the "untermenschen's" smile might have been to cover her own discomfort at not understanding, and that she was trying to help by referring you to someone who did not share her handicap.

By the way, I ate at a Red Lobster once. Believe me, you're missing nothing by never visiting that establishment again!
"Most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives." ~Leo Tolstoy

"It is the highest form of self-respect to admit our errors and mistakes and make amends for them. To make a mistake is only an error in judgment, but to adhere to it when it is discovered shows infirmity of character." ~Dale Turner

"Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either." ~Albert Einstein
"Truth is incontrovertible; malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it; but, in the end, there it is." ~Winston Churchill

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Re: Do I Need to YELL in Order to Get Your Attention?!

Post by Proton » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:54 am

Everyday life offers abundant opportunities for misunderstandings :wink: :



After a sumptuous Dim Sum feast, a New Yorker is enjoying a walk through
Chinatown, taking in the familiar sights and aromas, when he spots a sign
that had escaped his notice: "Moishe Plotnik's Chinese Laundry."

The New Yorker muses to himself: “I’ve been coming down here for years.
How is it that I’ve never noticed that sign before today? Moishe Plotnik?
In Chinatown??” Being a curious, but polite character, the New Yorker
walks into the shop and sees an old Chinese gentleman behind the counter.

The New Yorker says, "Good day sir. How is it that this establishment
came to be known as "Moishe Plotnik's Chinese Laundry?"
The old man answers, "Is name of owner."

“Well, I’d like to meet him someday. Could you arrange that somehow?”

"Owner is me. I right here in front of you."

"But, but you’re Chinese. So how did you come to be named
Moishe Plotnik?"

"Very simple. Many, many year ago when come to this
country, was stand on line at Immigration Center.
Man in front Jewish gentleman from Ukraine. Lady look at
him and ask, 'What your name?'

He say, 'Moishe Plotnik.'

Then she look at me and ask, 'What your name?'

I say, 'Sam Ting.'"


"A lie can run around the world before the truth can get its boots on."
James Watt

“No government has the right to decide on the truth of scientific principles, nor to prescribe in any way the character of the questions investigated."
Richard Feynman
The Quantum Universe has a quotation from me in every chapter — but it's a damn good book anyway.”
Richard Feynman



Jean
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Re: Do I Need to YELL in Order to Get Your Attention?!

Post by Jean » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:47 pm

That story tickled my memory.

My paternal grandmother came over from Germany in her earlyy 20s. Soon thereafter she got married and gave birth to my father. The hospital nurse asked for the baby's name and Grandma said "Ewald" after his father. The nurse misunderstood and apparently had no knowledge of common German names and she put Edward on his birth certificate. So... that's his name (and my brother's).
Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. - Albert Einstein

I haven't got the slightest idea how to change people, but still I keep a long list of prospective candidates just in case I should ever figure it out - David Sedaris (Naked)

dulcinea
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Re: Do I Need to YELL in Order to Get Your Attention?!

Post by dulcinea » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:40 pm

DavidRoss wrote:
dulcinea wrote:A dishwasher at Sonny's Real Pit Bar-B-Q has asked me about restaurants where he could apply for work as a server. Today I went to Red Lobster, and I asked the lady at the front desk for an application. She went to summon someone else, and when she returned--smiling that sickly simpering sneer that untermenschen always smile to me when they are about to insult me--, she asked me to talk to the man because she had not understood me.
I glared at her, and told her: Go to Hell in a tone that signified GO F--- YOUR FATHER, YOU GODDAMN C--- S-----!--; and stormed out in a fury, vowing never to return to that Red Lobster location.
After living 27 years in Tampa, I have absolutely no tolerance for gollums who make fun of me by pretending not to understand me! Am I to conclude that barking in anger is a more effective way of communication than talking softly in a normal conversational mode???!!!
Is it possible that the "gollums" (?) are not "pretending not to understand," but actually don't understand, due to a combination of your accent and their ill-attuned hearing? Could it be that you are more than a little touchy about such situations, due to incidents in the past, and so are predisposed to interpret them in the worst possible light? And if this has happened before, as your story suggests, might you expect such difficulty on some occasions and learn to regard them as opportunities to practice the virtues of patience and tolerance, cheerfully accepting the challenge instead of being enraged by it?

Your reading of the situation you describe might well be absolutely right. I wasn't there; if I had been, I might have seen it just like you. I've certainly experienced similar encounters myself. But based on the incidents you relate, it also sounds possible that the "untermenschen's" smile might have been to cover her own discomfort at not understanding, and that she was trying to help by referring you to someone who did not share her handicap.

By the way, I ate at a Red Lobster once. Believe me, you're missing nothing by never visiting that establishment again!
Three of my most unpleasant memories are of the three times that I was required to attend group therapy sessions. I cannot recommend them for anything; all you meet there are totally tedious people who have nothing interesting to say.
This particular group therapy--HA!!!--was particularly irksome; it was the third session, and for the third time I had heard the other participants repeat verbatim exactly the same things they had said in the first and second sessions. One particularly irritating lady told for the third time the story of how she was rejected for a job because she was asked whether she was under psychiatric observation, and she stupidly replied yes. I wanted to scream at her: Lady, why do you keep shooting yourself in the foot? Those businesses have no right to ask you that question, and you certainly should not answer in the affirmative. Or do you intend to keep repeating this inanity for the next three years?!
Naturally, I could not be that brutally frank, so I instead tried to improve the level of the ,,discussion'' by telling about my college activities, which certainly were not a repeat of the same thing week after week. Whereupon the leader of the group--twisting his maw into an obscene and almost lascivious leer--interrupted me to tell me in the most unctuous, oily and smarmy manner that what might be interesting to me might not be interesting to others--in other words, he had the gall to call me to my face a bore whose conversation was of no interest to anybody there.
Irony and sarcasm can be easily abused and should be used only with the lightest touch; someone like M Moore is exasperating precisely because he overuses sarcasm beyond the expiration date. The situation in which I was, however, obviously demanded a lot of irony and sarcasm, and I boldly used up two years' worth of them. I said out loud: Oh, please excuse me! It was not my intention to detract from the dazzling intellectual eminence of your discussions! Really, you are all so brilliant! For ex, you all have succeeded in eliminating all differences between Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, Jews, Islamics, Buddhists, Hindi, agnostics, atheists, etc, so that now all people in the world believe in the same religion, and there is no longer any sectarian antagonism anywhere! And we all owe it to your superior intellects! Compared to you, I'm as a candle next to a constellation of suns!!!
Seeing that I had their undivided attention--they all looked at me as if I were insane--, I let them have it with all guns firing: You contemptible herd of losers! All of you together don't have enough brains to fill the skull of an ant, and would not know intelligent conversation if it smacked you right in the nose! So you consider me a bore? I suppose you can recognise a bore when you see it, because you all look at bores when you stare at yourselves in the mirror! I'm so glad that you have given me a perfect reason to leave this gaggle of geese, because I certainly don't want to stay where I obviously am not welcome. So goodbye to all, and please have a stroke and die!
So I left that tribe of oafs, very much relieved at not having to go there any more, but with the following question haunting my mind: Why are you Americans so fond of baring your choppers in leering sneers that would scare even Vincent Price? If the purpose is to take away the sting of an insulting and offensive statement, I can truly assure you that those evil grins never accomplish that purpose, but instead make the insult much MUCH worse.
Let every thing that has breath praise the Lord! Alleluya!

SaulChanukah

Re: Do I Need to YELL in Order to Get Your Attention?!

Post by SaulChanukah » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:42 pm

dulcinea wrote:A dishwasher at Sonny's Real Pit Bar-B-Q has asked me about restaurants where he could apply for work as a server. Today I went to Red Lobster, and I asked the lady at the front desk for an application. She went to summon someone else, and when she returned--smiling that sickly simpering sneer that untermenschen always smile to me when they are about to insult me--, she asked me to talk to the man because she had not understood me.
I glared at her, and told her: Go to Hell in a tone that signified GO F--- YOUR FATHER, YOU GODDAMN C--- S-----!--; and stormed out in a fury, vowing never to return to that Red Lobster location.
After living 27 years in Tampa, I have absolutely no tolerance for gollums who make fun of me by pretending not to understand me! Am I to conclude that barking in anger is a more effective way of communication than talking softly in a normal conversational mode???!!!
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