"The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

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JackC
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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by JackC » Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:28 pm

adrianallan wrote:
JackC wrote:There were people on that flight who were talking to loved ones on the phone just before it hit the Pentagon. What happened to that plane and its passengers, who never saw their families again??

It is an insult to their memory and their families to have to listen to the "missile theory" and other 9/11 BS.
That is purely anecdotal

There is not one recorded extract of anybody on a plane making a phone call.

Why would a hijacker allow somebody to do that anyway ?, and phones did not work that high up then.

You have been caught up in 911 mythology, my friend.

"Phones did not work that high up"?????? :roll:

We have many accounts of last calls to loved ones from that awful day. That was how the people on the flight that crashed in Pennsylvania knew they had nothing to lose by trying to take over the plane from the highjackers.

Indeed, we have the Solicitor General of the US, Ted Olson, talking about his call with his wife, Babara Olson, before the plane hit the pentatgon. I guess he should have stopped to recorded the call for you. :roll:

And what ever did happen to flight 77 and the people on it?? I suppose all those passengers had to be killed by our government to keep them from talking so that a missile could be used to hit the Pentagon, instead just ramming the plane into the Pentagon. Right? :roll:

But gee, if you're going to kill all those people anyway, why not kill them by ramming the plane into the Pentagon just as planes were rammed into the WTC - which a billion people saw live on TV. What was the point of using a missile?? :roll:

You are not "my friend". You are, at a minimum, a helpless idiot, and likely a lot worse. Go away.

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by karlhenning » Thu Sep 09, 2010 1:00 pm

Chalkperson wrote:It's simple, the video cameras that monitor the Pentagon do not run in real time, they take a frame every few seconds, (seven seconds I believe) and the plane was traveling at high speed so they do not have frames of it actually hitting the building only the before and after shots, but, there is one with a plane in it, the Missile Theory is preposterous....

PS That was back in 2001, and there were hardly 100 Cameras, there were very few because of the buildings size and the fact that even a building that big only had two entrances, they were monitored in detail, but, that's not where the plane hit it....
Chalkperson wrote:After 9/11 I argued online for months with the "nitwits", you would not believe some of the crap they threw out there, in fact, in this weeks New Yorker, they have a long article on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, his original plan, that was rejected by Bin Laden, called for ten planes to be hijacked all over the country, nine planes would crash into buildings and monuments, and KSM would land the tenth plane himself, get out of the cockpit and give a triumphal speech explaining why he had attacked the USA, even the nuttiest conspiracy theorists could not come up with a grandiose scheme like that...
As ever, the voice of welcome Reason.

Cheers,
~Karl
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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by Cosima___J » Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:22 pm

So now adrian thinks that people on those ill-fated planes didn't make phone calls. Good grief!!! The people who received calls from their loved ones are liars???

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by Chalkperson » Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:39 pm

adrianallan wrote:I'm sorry, but I can't believe that the military centre of the world's greatest superpower did not have continuous cctv footage from all possible angles.

Even in my local supermarket I know they've got every nook and cranny covered.

To think that as more effort is put into stopping people shoplift a tin of beans than breaking into the centre of the US military is just preposterous.

And I can't accept that in 2001 technology was so behind what it is now, as military technology is always at least a decade ahead of what the public has access to.
For God's sake, I have been to the Pentagon, my friend works for the Secretay of Defense, it's a monstrous building, its size is staggering, it's difficult to comprehend how big it is, 24,000 people work there 8,000 are Officers and Generals, it's not the kind of place you monitor the outside with CCTV, and inside are 18 miles of corridors, getting permission to visit the crash location involved two background checks and I only got in because of Bob's position with SECDEF, it is a very, very secure building and i'm telling you that there were no continuous CCTV cameras on the outside of the building as you can't exactly break into it, the walls are meters thick the glass is three inches thick, nobody in their right mind would consider attacking or breaking into the Pentagon, the one CCTV Camera's footage that you see on TV is atually from the Gas Station at one end of the Car Park, Barbara Olson died there, her husband was Theodore Olson who argued Bush vs Gore, the President went to her funeral...you are insulting the families of the 3,000 dead people with your BS...
Adrianallan wrote:There is not one recorded extract of anybody on a plane making a phone call.

Why would a hijacker allow somebody to do that anyway ?, and phones did not work that high up then.

You have been caught up in 911 mythology, my friend.
No, Adrian, you have...please read this...
Death

Olson was a passenger on American Airlines Flight 77 on her way to a taping of Politically Incorrect in Los Angeles, when it was flown into the Pentagon in the September 11 attacks.

Flight 77 was hijacked at 8:54. At some point between 9:16 and 9:26, Olson called her husband. She reported that the flight had been hijacked, and the hijackers had knives and boxcutters. She further indicated that the hijackers were not aware of her phone call, and that they had put all the passengers in the rear of the plane. About a minute into the conversation, the call was cut off.

Shortly after, Barbara reached her husband again. She reported that the "pilot" had announced that the flight had been hijacked, and asked her husband what she should tell the captain to do. Ted Olson asked for her location and she replied that the aircraft was then flying over houses. Another passenger told her they were traveling northeast. Ted Olson informed Barbara of the two previous hijackings and crashes. She did not display signs of panic at the time. At that point, Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon.

Politically Incorrect host Bill Maher left a panel seat vacant for a week following her death.
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adrianallan
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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by adrianallan » Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:59 pm

Chalkperson wrote:
adrianallan wrote:I'm sorry, but I can't believe that the military centre of the world's greatest superpower did not have continuous cctv footage from all possible angles.

Even in my local supermarket I know they've got every nook and cranny covered.

To think that as more effort is put into stopping people shoplift a tin of beans than breaking into the centre of the US military is just preposterous.

And I can't accept that in 2001 technology was so behind what it is now, as military technology is always at least a decade ahead of what the public has access to.
For God's sake, I have been to the Pentagon, my friend works for the Secretay of Defense, it's a monstrous building, its size is staggering, it's difficult to comprehend how big it is, 24,000 people work there 8,000 are Officers and Generals, it's not the kind of place you monitor the outside with CCTV, and inside are 18 miles of corridors, getting permission to visit the crash location involved two background checks and I only got in because of Bob's position with SECDEF, it is a very, very secure building and i'm telling you that there were no continuous CCTV cameras on the outside of the building as you can't exactly break into it, the walls are meters thick the glass is three inches thick, nobody in their right mind would consider attacking or breaking into the Pentagon, the one CCTV Camera's footage that you see on TV is atually from the Gas Station at one end of the Car Park, Barbara Olson died there, her husband was Theodore Olson who argued Bush vs Gore, the President went to her funeral...you are insulting the families of the 3,000 dead people with your BS...
Adrianallan wrote:There is not one recorded extract of anybody on a plane making a phone call.

Why would a hijacker allow somebody to do that anyway ?, and phones did not work that high up then.

You have been caught up in 911 mythology, my friend.
No, Adrian, you have...please read this...
Death

Olson was a passenger on American Airlines Flight 77 on her way to a taping of Politically Incorrect in Los Angeles, when it was flown into the Pentagon in the September 11 attacks.

Flight 77 was hijacked at 8:54. At some point between 9:16 and 9:26, Olson called her husband. She reported that the flight had been hijacked, and the hijackers had knives and boxcutters. She further indicated that the hijackers were not aware of her phone call, and that they had put all the passengers in the rear of the plane. About a minute into the conversation, the call was cut off.

Shortly after, Barbara reached her husband again. She reported that the "pilot" had announced that the flight had been hijacked, and asked her husband what she should tell the captain to do. Ted Olson asked for her location and she replied that the aircraft was then flying over houses. Another passenger told her they were traveling northeast. Ted Olson informed Barbara of the two previous hijackings and crashes. She did not display signs of panic at the time. At that point, Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon.

Politically Incorrect host Bill Maher left a panel seat vacant for a week following her death.
The Ted Olson story is a complete red herring. It may even be a pack of lies

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... a&aid=8514

and secondly, how can you hijack a plane with knives and box cutters. A plane full of people would rather risk stab wounds than death.

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by Chalkperson » Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:03 pm

adrianallan wrote:
The Ted Olson story is a complete red herring. It may even be a pack of lies

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php? ... a&aid=8514

and secondly, how can you hijack a plane with knives and box cutters. A plane full of people would rather risk stab wounds than death.
Whilst I had not seen the Olson Story is Fake story, your comment about box cutters takes the biscuit, box cutters are not used to stab people, they are used to slit peoples throats...I have better things to do than argue with somebody so completely out of touch with reality as you...stick to writing music instead...

For those that have not seen El Paranoido's post in the Chatterbox.
I don't claim to know about 911, but I just think that we deserve more transparency. Until we do, people will ask those questions; and I do, partly to probe and provoke.
You admit you know nothing and do this to provoke, please find yourself another Website and waste the people's time over there, I have given you truthful and factual answers and your comments in return are laughable...go get a life...
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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by adrianallan » Fri Sep 10, 2010 3:14 pm

That's fine.

I will say no more on the subject as I know it's offensive to some people.

I can understand that totally, but in my view the enemy is manufactured to justify wars for fossil fuels, and it's sad that the US has fallen for the "new enemy" of muslims hook line and sinker.

Remember when communists were the bogeyman ?

When Peak Oil really hits home in the next few years, you will see the strength of the motive to create a self-hit to galvanise support for a war without frontiers spearheaded by the World's most energy-hungry superpower.

These are my final thoughts


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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by Barry » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:01 pm

adrianallan wrote: Remember when communists were the bogeyman ?
Sorry to break it to you, but saying Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc. were bogeymen and not actual enemies of civilization (not merely the U.S.) isn't improving your credibility here.

Every time you add another post to this thread, you merely increase the intensity of the negative feelings the other posters on here have for you.

If being thought of as a deluded as*hole is your thing, but all means, keep posting.
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea; but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." - Abraham Lincoln

"Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed." - Winston Churchill

"Before I refuse to take your questions, I have an opening statement." - Ronald Reagan

http://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pbp0hur ... re=related

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by adrianallan » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:30 pm

Of course there was Communism, but from that point on the US used it as an excuse to overthrow nations who attempted to fight off commercial exploitation.

Remember Salvador Allende in Chile, who was democratically elected and was ousted by a CIA sponsored brutal coup

Upon assuming power, Allende began to carry out his platform of implementing a socialist program called La vía chilena al socialismo ("the Chilean Path to Socialism"). This included nationalization of large-scale industries (notably copper mining and banking), and government administration of the health care system, educational system (with the help of an American educator, Jane A. Hobson-Gonzalez from Kokomo, Indiana), a program of free milk for children in the schools and shanty towns of Chile, and an expansion of the land seizure and redistribution already begun under his predecessor Eduardo Frei Montalva,[19] who had nationalized between one-fifth and one-quarter of all the properties listed for takeover.[20] The Allende government's intention was to seize all holdings of more than eighty irrigated hectares.[21] Allende also intended to improve the socio-economic welfare of Chile's poorest citizens;[citation needed] a key element was to provide employment, either in the new nationalised enterprises or on public work projects

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by adrianallan » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:44 pm

And you're right - at least there was some element of reality in the threat posed by the Soviet Union

(without forgetting that the US is the only country to have actually dropped a nuclear weapon, twice).

Which is more than can be said for the muslim threat...

PS have you noticed how muslim territories tend to coincide with extensive oil fields.

Strange coincidence, eh ?

By the way if you think I'm being anti-US, I'm not. I blame my own nation (UK) just as much.

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by Chalkperson » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:13 pm

adrianallan wrote:(without forgetting that the US is the only country to have actually dropped a nuclear weapon, twice).
That has no relevance whatsoever, if Britain or any other nation had a Nuclear Bomb in 1945, they would have dropped it on Japan too...Churchill was as serious a Warrior as President Truman, he would have done exactly the same thing...
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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by Agnes Selby » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:31 pm

Chalkperson wrote:
adrianallan wrote:(without forgetting that the US is the only country to have actually dropped a nuclear weapon, twice).
That has no relevance whatsoever, if Britain or any other nation had a Nuclear Bomb in 1945, they would have dropped it on Japan too...Churchill was as serious a Warrior as President Truman, he would have done exactly the same thing...
What is also truer than true is that if Germany had an atom bomb,
none of us would be here. And that's not a conspiracy theory, adrianallen!
They were working on it....

My hair is standing on end, literally, perhaps adrianallen could stop his theorising
so that I can get that hair come down... :roll:

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by JackC » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:42 pm

adrianallan wrote:And you're right - at least there was some element of reality in the threat posed by the Soviet Union

(without forgetting that the US is the only country to have actually dropped a nuclear weapon, twice).

Which is more than can be said for the muslim threat...

PS have you noticed how muslim territories tend to coincide with extensive oil fields.

Strange coincidence, eh ?

By the way if you think I'm being anti-US, I'm not. I blame my own nation (UK) just as much.
I don't care who you "blame" or don't blame. You are a piece of garbage. Go **** yourself.

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by Agnes Selby » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:58 pm

It is really amazing how there is always someone who comes here
to destroy the equilibrium of this board! Your real name wouldn't be
Newman by any chance, adrianallen? Mr. Newman had an obscure
Italian musician write all of Mozart's music. In fact, I believe
you are Mr. Newman and it is not a conspiracy theory. :wink:

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by Barry » Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:05 pm

Agnes Selby wrote:
Chalkperson wrote:
adrianallan wrote:(without forgetting that the US is the only country to have actually dropped a nuclear weapon, twice).
That has no relevance whatsoever, if Britain or any other nation had a Nuclear Bomb in 1945, they would have dropped it on Japan too...Churchill was as serious a Warrior as President Truman, he would have done exactly the same thing...
What is also truer than true is that if Germany had an atom bomb,
none of us would be here. And that's not a conspiracy theory, adrianallen!
They were working on it....
Reagan made a good point in his 1967 or '68 debate with RFK. He said that there was a period following WWII when the U.S. had a monopoly on the bomb. Does anyone doubt that had the Soviets had a monopoly on the bomb during that same period, nobody would have been safe from either the bomb or being blackmailed into doing what Stalin wanted to avoid the bomb?
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea; but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." - Abraham Lincoln

"Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed." - Winston Churchill

"Before I refuse to take your questions, I have an opening statement." - Ronald Reagan

http://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pbp0hur ... re=related

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by Barry » Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:07 pm

Chalkperson wrote:
adrianallan wrote:(without forgetting that the US is the only country to have actually dropped a nuclear weapon, twice).
That has no relevance whatsoever, if Britain or any other nation had a Nuclear Bomb in 1945, they would have dropped it on Japan too...Churchill was as serious a Warrior as President Truman, he would have done exactly the same thing...
Shallow minds look at results without taking causes and context into account.
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea; but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." - Abraham Lincoln

"Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed." - Winston Churchill

"Before I refuse to take your questions, I have an opening statement." - Ronald Reagan

http://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pbp0hur ... re=related

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by Chalkperson » Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:01 am

Agnes Selby wrote:It is really amazing how there is always someone who comes here
to destroy the equilibrium of this board! Your real name wouldn't be
Newman by any chance, adrianallen? Mr. Newman had an obscure
Italian musician write all of Mozart's music. In fact, I believe
you are Mr. Newman and it is not a conspiracy theory. :wink:
Mr Newman he ain't, he's like Saul, a Composer...it always amazes me how these bright Musical Minds come up with such crap at the same time... :?
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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by Agnes Selby » Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:14 am

Chalkperson wrote:
Agnes Selby wrote:It is really amazing how there is always someone who comes here
to destroy the equilibrium of this board! Your real name wouldn't be
Newman by any chance, adrianallen? Mr. Newman had an obscure
Italian musician write all of Mozart's music. In fact, I believe
you are Mr. Newman and it is not a conspiracy theory. :wink:
Mr Newman he ain't, he's like Saul, a Composer...it always amazes me how these bright Musical Minds come up with such crap at the same time... :?
Its funny that he should surface. Today there was a program on TV
about all the silly 9/11 conspiracy theories. Some of them were
absolutely amazing.

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by adrianallan » Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:33 am

I have always used my own name on all forums as I have nothing to hide.

You might call be a trouble maker and worse, but I think that your anger is misplaced. You should really be angry at US foreign policy over the last decade.

If by being provocative I have alerted some people to fragility of the life they enjoy at the expense of oil-rich nations, then I don't mind at all being called names.

You might remember my words when in few years the infinite growth economic paradign sets into terminal decline and we have to face a stark choice of "adapt or die" because the global war for oil/war on terror cannot prop up the system indefinitely.

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win" Gandhi.


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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by adrianallan » Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:48 am

And you are partly right about the dropping of the atomic bomb.

They reckoned on it saving lives in the long run, even though, you must agree, it was an abominable act of violence.

I believe the same was true of 911. If you subscribe to the peak oil theory, then the perpetrators believed they were saving lives in the long-run. Why ? Because as oil shortages hit home, this planet will face an inevitable die-off of its human population. 3,000 lives might have been a necessary sacrifice to give the US a head start in a global struggle for energy that will define the 21st century. I believe that the perpetrators of 911 thought they were acting paternally, taking a gullible public by the hand to back a false war on terror.

You might not agree with my stance on 911, but I'm sure that you must all agree that the motive for committing 911 is irrefutable.

In a court of law you must establish mean, motive and opportunity.

Here is the motive. I dare you to object:


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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by adrianallan » Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:12 am

JackC wrote:
adrianallan wrote:And you're right - at least there was some element of reality in the threat posed by the Soviet Union

(without forgetting that the US is the only country to have actually dropped a nuclear weapon, twice).

Which is more than can be said for the muslim threat...

PS have you noticed how muslim territories tend to coincide with extensive oil fields.

Strange coincidence, eh ?

By the way if you think I'm being anti-US, I'm not. I blame my own nation (UK) just as much.
I don't care who you "blame" or don't blame. You are a piece of garbage. Go **** yourself.
When people begin to lose at anything they often resort to insults.

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by absinthe » Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:50 am

Sorry, I messed up the post BBtags etc.
Last edited by absinthe on Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:54 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by lennygoran » Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:56 am

>Reagan made a good point in his 1967 or '68 debate with RFK.<

Somehow this is a debate I never heard of--thank goodness for the internet! :)

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/ ... gor?page=1

Regards, Len

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by absinthe » Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:01 am

Agnes Selby wrote:It is really amazing how there is always someone who comes here
to destroy the equilibrium of this board! Your real name wouldn't be
Newman by any chance, adrianallen? Mr. Newman had an obscure
Italian musician write all of Mozart's music. In fact, I believe
you are Mr. Newman and it is not a conspiracy theory. :wink:
But you see, Agnes, one of the points of this (or any) forum appears to be to debate
but thankfully without the highly restrained conduct of the sort of real-life meetings I attend.
It's a conduct that prevents exchanges that reveal participants' "true" feelings for a situation.

There's bound to be disagreement on subjects like this and it's partly cultural
differences across borders. We, in the UK, for better or worse, have far broader
news and opinion on tap.

I've mostly stayed out of this discussion because though I can't go along with the
US official account, "the truth" is unlikely to be revealed to me. And, franky, I don't care.
Like the 7/7 incident it's done and the aim should be finding the miscreants and further prevention.

Suspicions can be understood though. We've all witnessed American tactics,
usually unearthed some time after the event: The American administration
has a particular objective which it can't implement for whatever reason.
So it gets the CIA to precipitate matters to provide the necessary excuse.

We all knew that Dubya/America needs a strong presence in the Middle East. We knew that
his excuses for invading Iraq were waffle: AlQaeda was highly unlikely to be operating
there (for several reasons not the least Mr. Hussein's hatred of its leader); WMDs were
unlikely (unless the US had sold them equipment to make them during the Irag-Iran war)
and so on. So it came down to deploying a vast army merely to displace Mr. Hussein.
Why then?, one asks, when the whole issue had been on the cards since the Gulf War.
And why would America be interested in said war if it wasn't to preserve oil supplies?
I mean, if America was on form, it was looking for a good excuse. Thus, no matter who
perpetrated 9/11, it provided that excuse.

So there is room for discussion and I suppose name-calling is inevitable when sides get
entrenched. A great shame that the volume of rudeness swells up against someone
voicing a view, a few attackers crawling out when they've someone else's cloak to cling to;
when it's safe. Oh boy!
Anyway, as long as someone has the chance to bite back if they're slagged off, that seems fair.

Maybe the answer is to restrict entry to this pub to right-wing American CMG members only. Or get others
to go through some kind of pseudo-citizenship rite to ensure they are pro-American at all times?

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by karlhenning » Sat Sep 11, 2010 7:31 am

Chalkperson wrote:Mr Newman he ain't, he's like Saul, a Composer...it always amazes me how these bright Musical Minds come up with such crap at the same time... :?
Sunspots, perhaps.

Cheers,
~Karl
Karl Henning, PhD
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston, Massachusetts
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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by absinthe » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:45 am

:lol:

Ha! Another one creeping out of the woodwork now the consensus makes it safe to do so!

:mrgreen:

Barry
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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by Barry » Sat Sep 11, 2010 11:30 am

lennygoran wrote:>Reagan made a good point in his 1967 or '68 debate with RFK.<

Somehow this is a debate I never heard of--thank goodness for the internet! :)

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/ ... gor?page=1

Regards, Len
Yes, to everyone's surprise, the not-too-bright actor mopped up the floor with the golden-boy Kennedy to the point where RFK skewered his handlers for getting him into that mess (for him; it was no mess for Reagan).
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea; but if this is tea, please bring me some coffee." - Abraham Lincoln

"Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed." - Winston Churchill

"Before I refuse to take your questions, I have an opening statement." - Ronald Reagan

http://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pbp0hur ... re=related

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by slofstra » Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:23 pm

JackC wrote:
adrianallan wrote:
karlhenning wrote:Thank you, adrianallan, for illustrating anew Christian Caryl's apothegm: "The problem with most conspiracy theories is that they are a mixture of faith-based cynicism and exceptional credulity when it comes to the theories themselves. They don't judge the theories by the same standards by which they ask you to judge the official version."

Cheers,
~Karl
But I don't have a specific theory, I just know that the official explanation does not add up.

Surely you don't buy the idea that the hijackers' passports were found in the rubble ?

But more importantly, the collapse of tower 7 and its subsequent cover up casts doubt on the official explanation.

Their unwillingness to produce any footage of what hitthe pentagon casts more doubt

and the list goes on...

It is amazing to see the nitwits who promote this stuff act as if they are being rational.
Why don't you peddle your BS elsewhere, you fruitcake.
Jack, don't act so threatened. Discussing this stuff in the open is the best way to dispel it. Whereas lingering doubts never actually go away.

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by slofstra » Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:27 pm

Agnes Selby wrote:It is really amazing how there is always someone who comes here
to destroy the equilibrium of this board! Your real name wouldn't be
Newman by any chance, adrianallen? Mr. Newman had an obscure
Italian musician write all of Mozart's music. In fact, I believe
you are Mr. Newman and it is not a conspiracy theory. :wink:
That's quite funny! :lol: :lol: When was there equilibrium in the "Corner Pub"??

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by Chalkperson » Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:40 pm

adrianallan wrote:You might not agree with my stance on 911, but I'm sure that you must all agree that the motive for committing 911 is irrefutable.
I have no problem with you stating your views about Wars and Oil etc, but, why put forward such petty and laughable Conspiracy Theories for it, long after your main one (Building Seven) had been explained, but, to suggest that the Bush Administration is behind 9/11 upsets many here, especially those members who knew some of the innocent Civilians who were killed...let me put the final nail in your coffin...

During the Trial of the '93 WTC Bombers, the Defense Attorney asked a Government witness if the Truck Bomb could have caused the building to topple over into the Hudson River, the reply was "No"...the Attorney then asked, "What would topple the Building" the reply was "You would have to make an explosion ABOVE THE 80th FLOOR"...secondly, Microsoft Flight Simulator had a section where you land at JFK and need to steer the Aircraft around the Twin Towers, the 9/11 Terrorists practiced on this game, only they trained themselves in how to hit the Twin Towers...the defense rests...
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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by slofstra » Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:47 pm

Chalkperson wrote:
adrianallan wrote:You might not agree with my stance on 911, but I'm sure that you must all agree that the motive for committing 911 is irrefutable.
I have no problem with you stating your views about Wars and Oil etc, but, why put forward such petty and laughable Conspiracy Theories for it, long after your main one (Building Seven) had been explained, but, to suggest that the Bush Administration is behind 9/11 upsets many here, especially those members who knew some of the innocent Civilians who were killed...let me put the final nail in your coffin...

During the Trial of the '93 WTC Bombers, the Defense Attorney asked a Government witness if the Truck Bomb could have caused the building to topple over into the Hudson River, the reply was "No"...the Attorney then asked, "What would topple the Building" the reply was "You would have to make an explosion ABOVE THE 80th FLOOR"...secondly, Microsoft Flight Simulator had a section where you land at JFK and need to steer the Aircraft around the Twin Towers, the 9/11 Terrorists practiced on this game, only they trained themselves in how to hit the Twin Towers...the defense rests...
Very good point, chalkie.

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by adrianallan » Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:48 pm

Ok, I wouldn't want to offend people with my views on 911 and sorry if I have

However, you might be interested to know that there is a family members' group of people who died which is seeking answers, just like I am.

And, to be honest, who is showing the same level of disgust at all the innocents killed at the hands of the US governments since 911 in poor muslim nations that happened to sit on, or near, major energy supplies ?

Who is disgusted at the use of depleted uranium weapons in Iraq ?



Don't direct your anger at "truthers".

We haven't actually committed such genocidal acts.

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by absinthe » Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:06 pm

adrianallan wrote:Ok, I wouldn't want to offend people with my views on 911 and sorry if I have

However, you might be interested to know that there is a family members' group of people who died which is seeking answers, just like I am.

And, to be honest, who is showing the same level of disgust at all the innocents killed at the hands of the US governments since 911 in poor muslim nations that happened to sit on, or near, major energy supplies ?

Who is disgusted at the use of depleted uranium weapons in Iraq ?
I mentioned DU a couple of weeks ago and got clobbered. Had to assume that the American killing machine is always right and whoever fights back is wrong. The buggers couldn't even remove their weapons from the Gulf battlefield and still they're killing people, causing birth defects etc. But... they're right. And...clean up their mess? Not on your nelly.

America is the current WMD. In the latest round...130,000 innocent dead just to depose one bloke? That's worse than Hiroshima, innit?

However, in deference I should add that just as one can't blame all Muslims for 9/11, one can't blame all Americans for the actions of Bush and his butchers.

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by adrianallan » Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:57 pm

Yes, you can't blame them, but it just saddens me that so many people foam at the mouth at the mention of DU or something improper about 911 - like I'm disrespectful to even make these points, but sit back and let greater atrocities happen in the name of "war on terror".

Let's not forget that Iraq was the cradle of civilization, the place where farming began in the early neolithic and went on define our humanity for the next 5,000 years. It's a crime against an area of unique historical importance too.

But I think that in the UK we've also adopted the mantra of

"don't think, just carry on shopping"

People think that Communism involved brainwashing and propaganda. I really think that we need to look closer at ourselves.

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by Chalkperson » Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:37 pm

adrianallan wrote:Yes, you can't blame them, but it just saddens me that so many people foam at the mouth at the mention of DU or something improper about 911 - like I'm disrespectful to even make these points, but sit back and let greater atrocities happen in the name of "war on terror".
Just so you know, i'm from Wales, but, I have lived in New York for the last 25 years...i'm only prepared to discuss 9/11 and National Security issues here in the Pub, I don't do Politics...I am as against Cluster Bombs, White Phosphorous, Agents Orange and Green, Napalm and other of those kinds of weapons as you are, one of my best friends just happens to be running part of the Battle of Kandahar right now, and, you can see from my Thread about Kevin that I care deeply about our Soldiers, I am an American Patriot because of Kevin and Bob, I do not agree with many of the decisions than the Worlds Governments make, but, as Bob told me "Don't Blame the War on the Warriors"...he can't control the orders he is given to carry out, neither can his friend and Boss, Gen. Petreaus, they serve our Country and abide by the decisions that the Administration controlling the White House makes, I have mentioned here before that I have met and talked to dozens of young Warriors about Iraq, they believed in their cause because the President told them too, they wanted to complete their mission, no matter what the cost, make sure that you understand that it is the Governments of America and other Countries that make the decisions you disagree with, it's not the American people...
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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by jack stowaway » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:08 am

Chalkie,

Thanks for the information concerning the free-fall collapse of Building Seven.

I was watching footage on the television news just an hour ago and murmured in surprise when I saw the building go down so fast. Now I know why.

Jack

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by lennygoran » Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:51 am

>People think that Communism involved brainwashing and propaganda.<

But can we deny the atrocities under Stalin and Mao--is there anything the US has done which is as bad in the last century? If we go back further in US history of course slavery was awful. Regards, Len

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by slofstra » Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:09 pm

Chalkperson wrote:
adrianallan wrote:
Chalkperson wrote:
adrianallan wrote:Why is your media not telling you that three buildings fell on 911, not two.

Building 7 fell at free fall speed and was not hit by a plane. It is 50 stories high

How can this have happened ?
The (Conspiracy) Theory is that the building was "pulled," meaning laced with explosives that were put there on Guiliani's Orders after consultation with (Jailbird) Bernie Kerrick and (Owner) Larry Silverstein, here is a vidio clip of Silverstein using this phrase, but, the main evidence of the "conspiracy" part of the story of building Number Seven was that it was announced on CNN at lunchtime that the building would collapse at five fifteen, it actually collapsed at 5.21...
Yes, and the point is that if it fell on the same day as the other towers, it must have been pre-wired to collapse.

No skyscraper falls at free fall speed due to fires alone.

This in turn raises the possibility that the twin towers were also rigged with explosives to engender a collapse event.

The twin towers were originally built to withstand multiple aircraft strikes.

Why did the twin towers need to collapse ?

The add the finishing touches to a horror story that would indelibly burn on the retinas of the US public.

And provide the excuse of a never-ending War on Terror, which knew no international boundaries.

The War on Terror is the 21st century's excuse to invade pre-emptively across the whole globe.

Because we all know that "terrorist cells" lurk across the four corners of the globe.

Fear is the greatest weapon politician can use against his own people
You just don't understand, do you...Manhattan is an Island, it has to think of every possibility and prepare for that, one scenario is that they have to collapse a building in order to insure that other buildings around it do not get damaged, for example, when the power went out in 1978 we lost the main telephone exchange that controlled the Stock Exchange and Data was lost, so, they rebuilt it as a building with no windows, it's 50 stories high, in the event of a nuclear blast it's shell would fall off but the telephone exchange would survive, anyway, the provision to "pull" a building is on the books at the Fire and Police Departments, when they knew that the fires in Building Seven were out of control and that a giant oil fire was breaking underneath it, they made that decision at around 12.30 pm, they said it would take under five hours to rig the building with explosives, so they wired the building as quickly as possible and collapsed it...what you conspiracy theorists don't understand is that the reason that the Mayor denied it was because it would further traumatize the families of the 9/11 victims, they could have argued that the building had not been searched properly...I live at Ground Zero, I know the local Cops and Firemen, give me any of your theories and i'll disprove them, I did a lot of it on Huffington Post just after 9/11 and i'll happily do it on CMG...do you now understand the logic of what was done, and why it was done...
Chalkie, I found this explanation of WTC 7 collapse intriguing but I cannot find any other sources for it.

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by slofstra » Sun Sep 12, 2010 12:09 pm

Chalkperson wrote:
adrianallan wrote:
Chalkperson wrote:
adrianallan wrote:Why is your media not telling you that three buildings fell on 911, not two.

Building 7 fell at free fall speed and was not hit by a plane. It is 50 stories high

How can this have happened ?
The (Conspiracy) Theory is that the building was "pulled," meaning laced with explosives that were put there on Guiliani's Orders after consultation with (Jailbird) Bernie Kerrick and (Owner) Larry Silverstein, here is a vidio clip of Silverstein using this phrase, but, the main evidence of the "conspiracy" part of the story of building Number Seven was that it was announced on CNN at lunchtime that the building would collapse at five fifteen, it actually collapsed at 5.21...
Yes, and the point is that if it fell on the same day as the other towers, it must have been pre-wired to collapse.

No skyscraper falls at free fall speed due to fires alone.

This in turn raises the possibility that the twin towers were also rigged with explosives to engender a collapse event.

The twin towers were originally built to withstand multiple aircraft strikes.

Why did the twin towers need to collapse ?

The add the finishing touches to a horror story that would indelibly burn on the retinas of the US public.

And provide the excuse of a never-ending War on Terror, which knew no international boundaries.

The War on Terror is the 21st century's excuse to invade pre-emptively across the whole globe.

Because we all know that "terrorist cells" lurk across the four corners of the globe.

Fear is the greatest weapon politician can use against his own people
You just don't understand, do you...Manhattan is an Island, it has to think of every possibility and prepare for that, one scenario is that they have to collapse a building in order to insure that other buildings around it do not get damaged, for example, when the power went out in 1978 we lost the main telephone exchange that controlled the Stock Exchange and Data was lost, so, they rebuilt it as a building with no windows, it's 50 stories high, in the event of a nuclear blast it's shell would fall off but the telephone exchange would survive, anyway, the provision to "pull" a building is on the books at the Fire and Police Departments, when they knew that the fires in Building Seven were out of control and that a giant oil fire was breaking underneath it, they made that decision at around 12.30 pm, they said it would take under five hours to rig the building with explosives, so they wired the building as quickly as possible and collapsed it...what you conspiracy theorists don't understand is that the reason that the Mayor denied it was because it would further traumatize the families of the 9/11 victims, they could have argued that the building had not been searched properly...I live at Ground Zero, I know the local Cops and Firemen, give me any of your theories and i'll disprove them, I did a lot of it on Huffington Post just after 9/11 and i'll happily do it on CMG...do you now understand the logic of what was done, and why it was done...
Chalkie, I found this explanation of WTC 7 collapse intriguing but I cannot find any other sources for it.

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by adrianallan » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:30 pm

That's becuase it is baloney.

There is no way that they would have entered a burning building and wired it up to come down so symmetrically on the panic-struck day of 911.

Talk about health and safety, it would have been dicing with death...when at the same time there were actually lives that needed saving.

And even if they had done, why have they misled the public for so long and no admitted to doing it ?

Why has a commission been set up to try and investigate the free fall collapse of building 7 when they could have used that much more simple explanation ?

Building 7 is the biggest smoking gun of 911 and the best possible trigger to "awaken" those subscribe to the official conspiracy story.

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by absinthe » Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:46 pm

I accept Chalkie's report here. For various reasons I know that American demolition experts are real experts having worked on countless tower blocks etc. (You can see a few of their efforts on Koyanisqqatsi). I had a friend in this biz who told me it's a matter of placing charges of the right size, then sequencing the timing of explosions so the building collapses neatly rather than crashing down on other buildings. I reckon a crack team could have wired that building given the stress they were under in a few hours.

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by Chalkperson » Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:17 pm

absinthe wrote:I accept Chalkie's report here. For various reasons I know that American demolition experts are real experts having worked on countless tower blocks etc. (You can see a few of their efforts on Koyanisqqatsi). I had a friend in this biz who told me it's a matter of placing charges of the right size, then sequencing the timing of explosions so the building collapses neatly rather than crashing down on other buildings. I reckon a crack team could have wired that building given the stress they were under in a few hours.
My account is true, I was told by a Fire Chief, if they admitted to doing this then all sorts of Law Suits could be filed against the City, suggesting that there were still people who were alive and trapped inside Building Seven, one key piece of evidence is that CNN reported around 1pm that the Building would collapse at 5.15, it actually collapsed at 5.21, there is no way to predict the time a building will collapse unless it's a controlled demolition...I have no reason to make this up, I too questioned it, but, the Fire Chief who gave me a copy of the Police Photographs explained it to me...there were huge fires raging inside that building, many floors were already damaged from the wreckage falling from the Twin Towers, it did not have to be rigged as much as a conventional demolition...

Two other points I did not mention before, the lack of wreckage at the Pentagon is because a plane is made from a shell of aluminum, vast amounts of it's structure are empty spaces, when it slammed into the Pentagon it concertina'd just like a Coke can...

Finally, the impact from the two planes does not just come from the Aircraft hitting the buildings, it's the Engines that have a much greater weight ratio when propelled at 600mph forcing them straight into the building and thus damaging the structure far more than just the weight of the plane itself...
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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by adrianallan » Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:22 am

Why did they have to demolish it actually on the day of 911 ?

Why not wait until the fires had been controlled and then knock it down ?

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by Chalkperson » Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:29 am

adrianallan wrote:Why did they have to demolish it actually on the day of 911 ?

Why not wait until the fires had been controlled and then knock it down ?
Underneath that building was a giant well full of oil, it supplied the whole area, it meant that an underground fire would burn for months and months, and, knowing that the building would eventually fall because of the inner damage, it was dangerous to leave it up, remember that Firemen sand Soldiers willingly face death at work, so it was no problem finding people to lay the explosives, incidentally, they offered to demolish (pull) the Deutsche Bank Building once the area was clearer, but the owners felt it could be repaired, it's a 50 floor building and it is being deconstructed by hand, it's taken two years and workers have died, it is only the second example of a building being deconstructed rather than demolished, I believe the other was in Houston...of course the cost is astronomic...

I'm going to post a link when I get back to New York on tuesday, some photographs from the Police Helicopter, they are public domain now, see if it looks like a conspiracy when you see these images, they will scare the hell out of you when you understand what happened to the buildings, you can trust me on that...but, there is one shot taken from behind the Statue of Liberty, with the WTC Dust Cloud in the background, she has her fist raised...in defiance of the Terrorists...
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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by adrianallan » Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:50 am

Thanks for the reply. I still am not entirely convinced that a in the turmoil of 911 the need to wire up a building was the most pressing need - unless of course it being there imminently threatened more loss of life. I agree there was oil in the basement, but oil is not explosive like petrol.

I agree that firefighters risk their lives - but only when there are lives to be saved in a task; never just to rig something up that wouldn't directly threaten anybody.

And even if that was the case, then there has been a huge cover up costing millions of dollars, as the WTC7 collapse became an official investigation that tried to explain the fall.

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by Chalkperson » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:12 am

adrianallan wrote:Thanks for the reply. I still am not entirely convinced that a in the turmoil of 911 the need to wire up a building was the most pressing need - unless of course it being there imminently threatened more loss of life. I agree there was oil in the basement, but oil is not explosive like petrol.
Just Google Building Seven, there are many reports from Firemen detailing the damage and danger it posed, of course i'll not deny that Rudy, Bernie and Larry are the most trustworthy of men, they saw it as an easy out, BTW it was a huge WIDE Building, to have not pulled it would have seriously hampered the Rescue Effort that began the following morning...

As for the Enquiries, I don't comment on Politics... :wink:
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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by karlhenning » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:13 am

adrianallan, you really are in kneejerk denial, aren't you?
I agree there was oil in the basement, but oil is not explosive like petrol.
Why, you priceless chump, heating oil is combustible, how on earth do you suppose it supplies heat?

Cheers,
~Karl
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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by absinthe » Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:45 am

karlhenning wrote:adrianallan, you really are in kneejerk denial, aren't you?
I agree there was oil in the basement, but oil is not explosive like petrol.
Why, you priceless chump, heating oil is combustible, how on earth do you suppose it supplies heat?

Cheers,
~Karl
Oh, for f*ck's sake, are you ever going to get your facts right?

Adrianallan said "oil is not explosive like petrol". That's a fact, ok? That's why we use petrol
in our cars, not fuel oil. Geddit?

(mumbles, aside) What a pillock!

One really would appreciate you getting your brain into gear
before you start typing. Try getting your brain and fingers in
the same gear, eh?

And don't go trying to put oil in yer motor car's petrol tank. Oil (that's engine oil
not fuel oil) goes in the filler on the rocker/camshaft cover.
Get the gas station guy to show you.

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by Mark Harwood » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:01 am

Anyone recall Cosima's question?
ObL certainly had an upbringing that is difficult for us reg'lar folks to imagine. Lots of people are badly damaged by their parents, but he was special in being privileged & wealthy, & having access to an established community of like-minded men.
So, what does the book have to tell us, Cosima?
"I did it for the music."
Ken Colyer

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Re: "The Looming Tower; Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

Post by Chalkperson » Mon Sep 13, 2010 12:55 pm

Mark Harwood wrote:Anyone recall Cosima's question?
ObL certainly had an upbringing that is difficult for us reg'lar folks to imagine. Lots of people are badly damaged by their parents, but he was special in being privileged & wealthy, & having access to an established community of like-minded men.
So, what does the book have to tell us, Cosima?
It tells us that Osama had little need for possessions, that he lived a meagre existence, as did his father, they did not display their affluence, it's an excellent book BTW...
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