A Sad/Nutty PC Firing

[JackC]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... 37&ps=cprs

So NPR has fired Juan Williams because of some remarks he made about muslims.

I am a fan of Williams, who, while very liberal, seems to me to be at least somewhat fair and prepared to acknowledge legitimate points on the "other side." I have no idea what he said that caused the trouble and I don't care. There is no way that he is any sort of bigot against muslims. I have seen him defend muslims against bigotry countless times.

It is a sad that PC dicates what people are permitted to say in this country, and that a good man like Juan Williams is fired and stifled.

[jbuck919]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... 37&ps=cprs

So NPR has fired Juan Williams because of some remarks he made about muslims.

I am a fan of Williams, who, while very liberal, seems to me to be at least somewhat fair and prepared to acknowledge legitimate points on the "other side." I have no idea what he said that caused the trouble and I don't care. There is no way that he is any sort of bigot against muslims. I have seen him defend muslims against bigotry countless times.

It is a sad that PC dicates what people are permitted to say in this country, and that a good man like Juan Williams is fired and stifled.

In one of those coincidences, I happened to be listening to this exact story on NBC when I pulled up your post.

As far as I'm concerned, Fox News is welcome to a 100% share in Juan Williams.

(If you had titled this "Controversy About Juan Williams" it would have had the charm of rhyming with a current thread in the Chatterbox.)

[ch1525]

(If you had titled this "Controversy About Juan Williams" it would have had the charm of rhyming with a current thread in the Chatterbox.)

I was so going to do that if a topic hadn't already been started! I was leaning towards "Controversy about Jaughan-Williams".

Seriously, though, I've never been a huge fan of Juan Williams, but NPR is totally in the wrong. Even The View "ladies" agree!

[piston]

I will speak on behalf of NPR. It certainly does have professional standards, an attribute I would not acknowledge in the case of FOX. FOX belongs to a much older age when newspapers did not even pretend to be objective: they were the intruments of a particular political establishment. That was their role and everybody knew it too! Essentially, people back then only read the "preach it to the choir" type of news.
But who's got an issue with the way Nina Totenberg so beautifully represents, acts out, the voices of the Supreme Court on NPR. There's not the slightest fluctuation in her tone of voice, whoever she's representing, including the far-in-between, virtually silent, Clarence Thomas! This lady aspires to being objective.It's the fundamental difference with FOX clowns: they don't even try! So transparent, like a worm, that one knows what they've been eating on that very day......

[jbuck919]

Even The View "ladies" agree!

Well, that certainly makes me re-think the matter.

[ch1525]

Even The View "ladies" agree!

Well, that certainly makes me re-think the matter.

That's what I would have thought!

[ch1525]

But who's got an issue with the way Nina Totenberg so beautifully represents, acts out, the voices of the Supreme Court on NPR. There's not the slightest fluctuation in her tone of voice, whoever she's representing, including the far-in-between, virtually silent, Clarence Thomas! This lady aspires to being objective.It's the fundamental difference with FOX clowns: they don't even try! So transparent, like a worm, that one knows what they've been eating on that very day......

I do.



Notice NPR paid no mind to that one.

[JackC]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... 37&ps=cprs

So NPR has fired Juan Williams because of some remarks he made about muslims.

I am a fan of Williams, who, while very liberal, seems to me to be at least somewhat fair and prepared to acknowledge legitimate points on the "other side." I have no idea what he said that caused the trouble and I don't care. There is no way that he is any sort of bigot against muslims. I have seen him defend muslims against bigotry countless times.

It is a sad that PC dicates what people are permitted to say in this country, and that a good man like Juan Williams is fired and stifled.

In one of those coincidences, I happened to be listening to this exact story on NBC when I pulled up your post.

As far as I'm concerned, Fox News is welcome to a 100% share in Juan Williams.

(If you had titled this "Controversy About Juan Williams" it would have had the charm of rhyming with a current thread in the Chatterbox.)

If you don't see that what was done to him was outrageous and totally, and very deeply wrong, then you are too far gone to bother to discuss the issue with.

[keaggy220]

Juan is a liberal i can disagree with and smile. He was waaaay too good for NPR.

[piston]

Ah,yes, the Republican "I've got no skeleton in the closet" take.
Nina Totenberg is a very steady reporter. Anyone who's got an issue with her work needs to ask self "Do I want to live in a world where nobody cares about being fair to no one else? Apparently, the producers of FOX News haven't addressed that question yet or, if they have, they don't care.

[keaggy220]

Ah,yes, the Republican "I've got no skeleton in the closet" take.
Nina Totenberg is a very steady reporter. Anyone who's got an issue with her work needs to ask self "Do I want to live in a world where nobody cares about being fair to no one else? Apparently, the producers of FOX News haven't addressed that question yet or, if they have, they don't care.

You're opinion about Fox is in the minority. I find them to be a wonderful news source. Check this poll:

http://publicpolicypolling.blogspot.com ... trust.html

[piston]

If I recall correctly, CNN was in the lead during the last presidential elections. And, judging from the Tea-party phenomenon, any entity that panders to reaction, whatever the nature or target of that reaction, is going to be a big hit. The only common denominator for such support is not some remarkable idea; it's just plain "I'm angry" type of reaction.

Remember Adolf Hitler?

[keaggy220]

If I recall correctly, CNN was in the lead during the last presidential elections. And, judging from the Tea-party phenomenon, any entity that panders to reaction, whatever the nature or target of that reaction, is going to be a big hit. The only common denominator for such support is not some remarkable idea; it's just plain "I'm angry" type of reaction.

Remember Adolf Hitler?

I'd love to see the data. I find it hard to believe because CNN is horrible, like the rest of the MSM.

I find Fox to be astonishingly well balanced, maybe leaning slightly to the right, but that's where most Americans are anyway...

[keaggy220]

Williams reaction:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10 ... d-network/

[jbuck919]

Williams reaction:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10 ... d-network/

NPR President and CEO Vivian Schiller sent an internal memo Thursday seeking to clarify why Williams' contract was terminated, claiming that the remarks he made on Fox News' "The O'Reilly Factor" weren't the only problem -- he was canned because he's become a pundit rather than an analyst.

In other words, he was long overdue for firing and they were looking for a good excuse. Nobody seems to be questioning--publicly anyway--whether it would have taken so long if Williams had been white (I mean, working for Fox News and expecting to stay on at NPR, really!). I imagine that's because the same people who complain about reverse discrimination are the ones who are now attacking NPR because it fired a man of color for cause.

These commentators show a shocking lack of knowledge about the First Amendment. Or rather, they probably have the knowledge but will gleefully dissemble to get in a stab at something they hate, namely NPR.

[lennygoran]

>Juan is a liberal i can disagree with and smile. He was waaaay too good for NPR<

Well what about PBS--can he stay with them--you know how I love that station!

BTW I don't think this was such a good comment to make on the airwaves:

""political correctness can lead to some kind of paralysis where you don't address reality...."I mean, look, Bill, I'm not a bigot... You know the kind of books I've written about the civil rights movement in this country. But when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous."

What should airlines do to suave Mr. williams nervousness?

Whether it merited him getting fired or not I'd have to think about some more. Regards, Len

[keaggy220]

Williams reaction:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10 ... d-network/

NPR President and CEO Vivian Schiller sent an internal memo Thursday seeking to clarify why Williams' contract was terminated, claiming that the remarks he made on Fox News' "The O'Reilly Factor" weren't the only problem -- he was canned because he's become a pundit rather than an analyst.

In other words, he was long overdue for firing and they were looking for a good excuse. Nobody seems to be questioning--publicly anyway--whether it would have taken so long if Williams had been white (I mean, working for Fox News and expecting to stay on at NPR, really!). I imagine that's because the same people who complain about reverse discrimination are the ones who are now attacking NPR because it fired a man of color for cause.

These commentators show a shocking lack of knowledge about the First Amendment. Or rather, they probably have the knowledge but will gleefully dissemble to get in a stab at something they hate, namely NPR.

Whatever. Juan Williams is one of the most respected pundit/analysts in news today and NPR didn't deserve him. This is simply NPR's intolerance toward Fox News and nothing else. Fox has broken the total monopoly of the liberal news media. The old guard is crying because they only control 90% of the airwaves now...

Heck, when I see a young Muslim man board a plan I think the same thing Juan does and I'm sure tens of millions of Americans do as well... Certainly, if there's an Air Marshall aboard he will note the same thing...

[keaggy220]

This is why Fox continues to crush the liberal media and their market share continues to expand at a jaw dropping pace. They just offered Juan a $2 million contract. They know talent and they know balance. Hats off to Juan!

In wake of NPR controversy, Fox News gives Juan Williams an expanded role

Reporting from Washington —

As NPR weathered a storm of criticism Thursday for its decision to fire news analyst Juan Williams for his comments about Muslims, Fox News moved aggressively to turn the controversy to its advantage by signing Williams to an expanded role at the cable news network.

Fox News Chief Executive Roger Ailes handed Williams a new three-year contract Thursday morning, in a deal that amounts to nearly $2 million, a considerable bump up from his previous salary, the Tribune Washington Bureau has learned. The Fox News contributor will now appear exclusively and more frequently on the cable news network and have a regular column on FoxNews.com.

"Juan has been a staunch defender of liberal viewpoints since his tenure began at Fox News in 1997," Ailes said in a statement, adding a jab at NPR: “He’s an honest man whose freedom of speech is protected by Fox News on a daily basis.”


Meanwhile, conservative leaders lambasted NPR for firing Williams and called for cutting public funding for the media organization. By midafternoon Thursday, more than 4,900 comments had been posted on NPR.org, including many from people who said the media organization was bowing to political correctness and unfairly punishing Williams for expressing his personal opinions.

"In one arrogant move the NPR exposed itself for the leftist thought police they really are,” read one typical post. “After this November elections I hope one of the first things the new Congress does is to defund this poor excuse for public radio.”

The controversy kicked off Monday night when Williams, a Fox News contributor, made an appearance on “The O’Reilly Factor.” In a conversation with host Bill O’Reilly about how fear of terrorism affects perceptions of Muslims, Williams noted that he harbored some anxieties, even as an author of books about the civil rights movement.

"I mean, look, Bill, I'm not a bigot….But when I get on a plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they're identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous," Williams said.

He also noted that it was not fair to cast all Muslims as extremists.

On Wednesday, NPR told Williams it was terminating his contract, saying his remarks “were inconsistent with our editorial standards and practices, and undermined his credibility as a news analyst with NPR.”

The abrupt break came after years in which Williams’ role at Fox News caused internal tension at the public radio organization. Many NPR listeners registered complaints about comments he made on the cable news channel, particularly remarks last year in which he described First Lady Michelle Obama as having “this Stokely Carmichael in a designer dress thing going” and saying she could become “an albatross."

In response, NPR executives asked Williams to request Fox News not identify him as an NPR analyst when he appeared on “The O’Reilly Factor.”

Dana Davis Rehm, NPR’s senior vice president for communications, said in an interview that Williams’ comments violated internal ethics policies that prohibit NPR journalists from going on other media and expressing “views they would not air in their role as an NPR journalist.” The guidelines also prohibit NPR journalists from participating in programs “that encourage punditry and speculation rather than fact-based analysis.”

Rehm said Williams had been warned several times in the past about making personal comments that violated the policy.

“This wasn’t the first time where we felt Juan crossed the line in terms of what’s permitted for NPR analysts and journalists as a whole,” she said. “We felt we really didn’t have an alternative. And it was not without regret, and it was not a decision that was made lightly by any means. We do appreciate the work he has done.”

Williams told Fox News on Thursday that he was let go over the phone and taken aback that he wasn’t given a chance to defend himself.

"It's not a bigoted statement,” he told Fox News in an interview the cable news network ran throughout the day. “In fact, in the course of this conversation with Bill O'Reilly, I said we have an obligation as Americans to be careful to protect the constitutional rights of everyone in our country and to make sure that we don't have any outbreak of bigotry. But that there's a reality. You cannot ignore what happened on 9/11, and you cannot ignore the connection to Islamic radicalism, and you can't ignore the fact of what has even recently been said in court with regard to this is the first drop of blood in a Muslim war in America."

Fox News made the most of the incident, rerunning a package about the controversy throughout the day. Williams was scheduled to appear on “The O’Reilly Factor” Thursday night to further address the issue and will guest host the program Friday.

In the meantime, NPR was slammed by conservative leaders such as Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin, who tweeted, “NPR defends 1st Amendment Right, but will fire u if u exercise it. Juan Williams: u got taste of Left's hypocrisy, they screwed up firing you."

Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, who hosts a show on Fox News, said he now plans to boycott NPR and decline its interview requests.

"NPR has discredited itself as a forum for free speech and a protection of the First Amendment rights of all and has solidified itself as the purveyor of politically correct pabulum and protector of views that lean left,” Huckabee wrote on his blog, adding: "It is time for the taxpayers to start making cuts to federal spending, and I encourage the new Congress to start with NPR."

NPR receives no direct federal funding for its operations, but between 1% and 3% of its $160-million budget comes from competitive grants awarded by publicly funded entities such as the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and the National Endowment for the Arts. Since 2009, NPR has received $8 million in competitive grants from the CPB for technology development and journalism initiatives. It also received a one-time grant of $78 million between 2007 and 2009 to upgrade satellite technology.

Local NPR stations receive $90 million in annual appropriations from the CPB that amount to about 10% of their revenue, on average.

Rehm said it was inappropriate for politicians to interject the issue of federal funding into an editorial decision, adding that she hoped the controversy would not affect financial support for public radio. “Stations are in fund-raising season, so it is unfortunate that this occurred at this time,” she said.


http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la ... 4425.story

[JackC]

Did you see this interview with the President of NPR??

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... trist.html

She looks and acts like a college sophmore in some political club. What a jmess, fire him because he appears on Fox News and also because George Soros, who just gave $1.8 million to NPR, told you it had to be done and then call him a wacko to boot. Just great.

If NPR were a decent, serious organization instead of the political shill it is that it is, the chairman of the board would have already called a special, meeting of the Board and would have demanded the resignation of the President of NPR for her firing of Juan Williams for political reasons and pursuant to the whims of George Soros. They would then install some respected person to come in and try to right the ship.

That is the only way to save NPR. In fact, if the Corporation for Public Broadcasting had any sense, it would pass that word down from on high, because CPR is now very much at risk.

The house is about to be controlled by Republicans and they would love to defund CPB and NPR. I hope they do.

[lennygoran]

>Did you see this interview with the President of NPR?? <

The psychiatrist comment was completely inappropriate imo--otoh 2 wrongs don't make a right. I may have to come out of retirement--I don't know who needs me more--PBS or The Metropolitan Opera! Regards, Len

[Agnes Selby]

It seems that even the First Amendment can be sacrificed
for a "bit" of (Soros) money

[Cosima___J]

Commenting only on the "offensive" remark made by Juan Williams, I'd have to say that Williams was only speaking the truth. He said exactly what I think when I'm boarding an airplane and see someone dressed in Arab attire ---- I get nervous and can scarcely help but think about 9/11. I've been flying many, many times and the 9/11 images are indelibly etched in my brain, so that the combination of Arab clothing and getting on the plane with the Arab clothing guy makes my stomach queasy.

Neither Juan Williams nor I advocate prohibiting Arabs from flying. Arabs should have (and do have) the same rights as anyone else. But my gut reaction is still nervousness. And for that I make no apology nor should Juan Williams.

[Agnes Selby]

Commenting only on the "offensive" remark made by Juan Williams, I'd have to say that Williams was only speaking the truth. He said exactly what I think when I'm boarding an airplane and see someone dressed in Arab attire ---- I get nervous and can scarcely help but think about 9/11. I've been flying many, many times and the 9/11 images are indelibly etched in my brain, so that the combination of Arab clothing and getting on the plane with the Arab clothing guy makes my stomach queasy.

Neither Juan Williams nor I advocate prohibiting Arabs from flying. Arabs should have (and do have) the same rights as anyone else. But my gut reaction is still nervousness. And for that I make no apology nor should Juan Williams.

Fear is a basic survival mechanism. With the memory of 9/11 still very
much alive in our minds and the subsequent attempts to bring planes
down, it is only natural that we feel fearful when perceiving images which
threaten our lives. I am quite sure that Ms. Schiller and Ms. Weiss feel equally
threatened when they see Muslims clad in their long gowns boarding the
planes on which they are travelling. After all, we all know it was not
Lutherans who caused the death of 3000 people on 9/11.

Recently, an entire Mall emptied of people within 10 minutes in Sydney
when 2 Arabic looking men in their native gowns, one carrying a rucksack,
strolled through the Mall. Should all people be punished for this natural
reaction to fear?

I have heard Juan Williams many times on TV and have a great respect for the man.
To label Juan Williams a racist is a travesty.

What I find difficult to understand is the benevolence with which the First Amendment
is applied to the building of the Mosque so close to the hallowed ground of 9/11
but a passing remark by Juan Williams should meet with severe punishment.

[jbuck919]

You're creating a lot of peer pressure not to claim that one is not scared to see people one would think are Muslim on an airplane. I'm not, for instance. OK, all together now, I can take it: "GOODY FOR YOU!"

[Agnes Selby]

You're creating a lot of peer pressure not to claim that one is not scared to see people one would think are Muslim on an airplane. I'm not, for instance. OK, all together now, I can take it: "GOODY FOR YOU!"

Well, you are an exceptional human being, John. Fear is innate, going way back to
when humanoids feared being supper to stronger animals.

Of course, Muslems have no fear of dying nor did the Japanese Kamikase.
So, I suppose some exceptional people have no fear. You are in good company.

Agnes.

[jbuck919]

You're creating a lot of peer pressure not to claim that one is not scared to see people one would think are Muslim on an airplane. I'm not, for instance. OK, all together now, I can take it: "GOODY FOR YOU!"

Well, you are an exceptional human being, John. Fear is innate, going way back to
when humanoids feared being supper to stronger animals.

No, I am not, nor do I accept that it is a necessary consequence of 9/11 that the entire Western world is now "innately" driven to a fear reaction on sighting a Muslim, nor do I find it particularly appropriate to compare them with threatening wild animals.

Many people may in fact have the reaction that Williams is talking about, but let each and every one of them speak for himself.

[ch1525]

Many people may in fact have the reaction that Williams is talking about, but let each and every one of them speak for himself.

Umm, that's exactly what Juan Williams was doing. He expressed his personal feelings. Should that not be allowed? Call in the thought police!

[jbuck919]

Many people may in fact have the reaction that Williams is talking about, but let each and every one of them speak for himself.

Umm, that's exactly what Juan Williams was doing.

Yes, but I was responding to the tendency of the thread, exemplified by Agnes' post, to assume that everybody feels the same way Williams does. But then you'll get me started about those who cannot help feeling that way, and should not be reproached for it, but are expected because of self-respect, context, sense of responsibility, duty, or general principles to deal with those feelings at a level removed from the cracker barrel.

[Agnes Selby]

Many people may in fact have the reaction that Williams is talking about, but let each and every one of them speak for himself.

Umm, that's exactly what Juan Williams was doing.

Yes, but I was responding to the tendency of the thread, exemplified by Agnes' post, to assume that everybody feels the same way Williams does. But then you'll get me started about those who cannot help feeling that way, and should not be reproached for it, but are expected because of self-respect, context, sense of responsibility, duty, or general principles to deal with those feelings at a level removed from the cracker barrel.

I said that most people feel fear. I also said that there are exceptions, such as the
Kamikase pilots and suicide bombers. Today, in Pakistan (or was it Afghanistan?) suicide bombers killed a large number of people and injured even more in a mosque suicide bombing. They knew no fear but their victims did.

Are you saying that because of self-respect, we should walk into a lion's den? What has
self-respect to do with fear? It has all to do with the preservation of life. What would
you do if someone pointed a gun at you? Would you ask him to shoot you because
of self-respect?

John, what you are saying is pure PC and I don't subscribe to PC.

[jbuck919]

Are you saying that because of self-respect, we should walk into a lion's den?

I am saying that a generalized fear is irrational and sensible people don't give in to their irrational fears, at least not when there is something important at stake. A dog may be afraid of every man with a mustache because a man with a mustache abused it once, but a dog doesn't know any better; we're supposed to, and yes, it is a matter of self-respect, among other things.

I might add that I am appalled by the ease with which large numbers of people seem cheerfully to be congratulating themselves for indulging what is in fact a reprehensible capitulation to base characteristics scarcely distinguishable from garden variety racial prejudice.

John, what you are saying is pure PC and I don't subscribe to PC.

Pity; it's a classic.

http://www.pcmag.com/

[Agnes Selby]

Are you saying that because of self-respect, we should walk into a lion's den?

I am saying that a generalized fear is irrational and sensible people don't give in to their irrational fears, at least not when there is something important at stake. A dog may be afraid of every man with a mustache because a man with a mustache abused it once, but a dog doesn't know any better; we're supposed to, and yes, it is a matter of self-respect, among other things.

I might add that I am appalled by the ease with which large numbers of people seem cheerfully to be congratulating themselves for indulging what is in fact a reprehensible capitulation to base characteristics scarcely distinguishable from garden variety racial prejudice.

John, what you are saying is pure PC and I don't subscribe to PC.

Pity; it's a classic.

http://www.pcmag.com/

Have you considered what would have happened had the "Underwear Bomber"
been successful in 2009? Unfortunately, mainly due to PC, the doctor
at the military base in Texas was only too successful in killing a great number
of people. So, John, don't be surprised if people express their concern.

[keaggy220]

Williams responds directly to NPR's outrageous treatment of him and exposes the extreme hypocrisy NPR practices - that so many here enjoy watching. It's these same people who call Fox biased. It's a pitiful blindness.

[lennygoran]

>It's these same people who call Fox biased. It's a pitiful blindness. <

There you go generalizing again--I don't call Fox biased--I don't what that station because I don't have the time. And on the comments Williams points to by others they are inappropriate too just like his comment was.

How would you feel if Katie Couric said on the National News that quite frankly she fears getting on a plane that had black passengers? Even if she felt that way shouldn't she just keep her bias to herself? Regards, Len

[keaggy220]

>It's these same people who call Fox biased. It's a pitiful blindness. <

There you go generalizing again--I don't call Fox biased--I don't what that station because I don't have the time. And on the comments Williams points to by others they are inappropriate too just like his comment was.

How would you feel if Katie Couric said on the National News that quite frankly she fears getting on a plane that had black passengers? Even if she felt that way shouldn't she just keep her bias to herself? Regards, Len

Williams comments don't even come close to the vile comments the other NPR "journalists" have made - you know, the ones you still enjoy watching because they weren't fired. I hope you write your favorite station and demand their dismissal.

Blacks didn't blow up the World Trade Center, Pentagon, USS Cole, Kenyan Embassy, crash a jet airliner in Penn., o well - here's the list since 1970...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_te ... ents,_1970

Get my drift? It's normal to have concerns.

[lennygoran]

>Blacks didn't blow up the World Trade Center, Pentagon, USS Cole, Kenyan Embassy, crash a jet airliner in Penn., o well - here's the list since 1970...<

Nor did most Muslims--it was terrorists who happened to be muslim. There was a time in this country when there were biases against all blacks because of a high number of crimes they committed on a percentage basis but then people learned not to generalize--I'm afraid you haven't learned this lesson with regard to Muslims. I guess that's why you probably still are against the NYC mosque. Regards, Len

[Cosima___J]

Here is an excellent summation of my opinion:
http://chronicle.augusta.com/opinion/ed ... 1287784963

Also, here's the link to the editorial cartoon for today:
http://chronicle.augusta.com/opinion/ca ... 1287784972

[keaggy220]

>Blacks didn't blow up the World Trade Center, Pentagon, USS Cole, Kenyan Embassy, crash a jet airliner in Penn., o well - here's the list since 1970...<

Nor did most Muslims--it was terrorists who happened to be muslim. There was a time in this country when there were biases against all blacks because of a high number of crimes they committed on a percentage basis but then people learned not to generalize--I'm afraid you haven't learned this lesson with regard to Muslims. I guess that's why you probably still are against the NYC mosque. Regards, Len

Oh what a load of NPR elitist garbage... If a young black man (or whatever, hispanic, asian, jewish) were vandalizing your neighborhood for the last 20 years and then turned violent and began killing people in your neighborhood you would be concerned when you saw young black men walking around your neighborhood at night. The black men you see might be a nice law-abiding citizens, but you're still concerned. There's nothing to be ashamed of - it's called being human... At least Mr. Williams is truthful about it. My hats off to his courage - I hope he opens the door for the PC junk to be flushed in the toilet where it belongs.

[lennygoran]

>I hope he opens the door for the PC junk <

Well I'm against PC junk too--however this was not an example of it--it was a newsman talking irresponsibly--whether a reprimand or a firing were in order can certainly be debated. Regards, Len

[Barry]

I don't dwell on or have any significant fear when I see that Muslims are going to be on a flight I'm taking, but I admit that I at least give the situation a quick thought.

But in response to some of the things that Len and John have said on this thread in terms of responsible people not giving into such base fears or this being analogous to people stereotyping blacks as being criminals, we know that Jesse Jackson himself not that many years ago said that he is relieved when he's walking in a city at night, hears people behind him and turns to see that they're white and not black. His relief is obviously the result of a fear that a group of young black men would be more likely to mug him than a group of whites or a white person would be. He, and we, obviously know that most black people aren't violent criminals. But yet in many large metro areas, it's an undeniable fact that most violent criminals are black. So I ask Len and John, if you're walking down a city street and the only people you see in front of you are a group of young black men who are dressed in hip-hop type garb, would the thought that you could potentially be walking into a dicey situation not even enter your mind? Would your thought process be the same as it would be if the only people in front of you were a couple young white men who are essentially dressed the same way that you are? Where is the line between bigotry and survival instinct?

I'll give another on-point comparison. A local program (or it may have been an on-line pod-cast) from a few years ago showed a group of cab drivers demonstrating over some issue. The drivers were a mix of various ethnicities and races. A black man walked up to several of the cab drivers and started yelling at them about the fact that, as a black man, he often gets passed by when he's trying to hail a cab. He wanted to know whey cab drivers won't pick up black men. Well at that point, one of the black cab drivers stepped forward and told this guy that he virtually never has a problem with any of the white people he picks up. Yet an absurdly high percentage of the blacks who he picks up either don't pay him at the end of their ride or worse (I assume that means they rob him or vandalize his cab). So I ask Len, John and anyone else who wants to answer, is the cab driver's refusal at times to pick up blacks in light of his experiences when picking up other blacks an understandable and common-sense case of his survival instinct kicking in or is he just a racist who has no good excuse for refusing to pick up black males? And by the way, an old friend of mine who used to drive a cab would tell me the same thing about his passengers. It was amazing how often he got some sort of trouble (refusal to pay or worse) from black passengers, and he was hesitant to pick them up as a result.

[keaggy220]

>I hope he opens the door for the PC junk <

Well I'm against PC junk too--however this was not an example of it--it was a newsman talking irresponsibly--whether a reprimand or a firing were in order can certainly be debated. Regards, Len

So, in your opinion, expressing your opinion on an opinion show is a cause for dismissal. 1984.

[jbuck919]

At least Mr. Williams is truthful about it. My hats off to his courage.

There's no courage involved here. Williams has been embraced by a warm cocoon of heartfelt sympathy and been given a promotion in his main job. While he has done nothing criminal (and I don't think him capable of such), he is basking in the same kind of glow of public sympathy that caused Bernard Goetz to get off with gun possession charges, and obviously thoroughly enjoying himself. I'll say it again: Feelings, in this case of apprehension about specific groups of people, may be common and only human, but if that were enough to justify people affirming them, embracing them even, then Othello should have been forgiven for killing Desdemona.

[Barry]

Krauthammer confronts Totenberg over why it's okay for her to still be an NPR employee, but not Williams. She obviously doesn't want to say anything that will get her into trouble, but one gets the feeling she thinks the firing was wrong:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... nberg.html

[keaggy220]

At least Mr. Williams is truthful about it. My hats off to his courage.

There's no courage involved here. Williams has been embraced by a warm cocoon of heartfelt sympathy and been given a promotion in his main job. While he has done nothing criminal (and I don't think him capable of such), he is basking in the same kind of glow of public sympathy that caused Bernard Goetz to get off with gun possession charges, and obviously thoroughly enjoying himself. I'll say it again: Feelings, in this case of apprehension about specific groups of people, may be common and only human, but if that were enough to justify people affirming them, embracing them even, then Othello should have been forgiven for killing Desdemona.

There's no fear for liberals as long as they continue to express their monolithic mantra of progressive views. Of course as soon as anyone questions this brainless repetition of inane gibberish there is a huge price to pay.

Fortunately Mr. Williams is a wonderfully talented man who has no need for NPR. Nevertheless conservatives now view Juan Williams as a soldier who took a bullet but not before giving PC a well placed blow to the midsection. I hope he uses his platform to battle on. We will never move to the next level in race relations until PC dies.

[keaggy220]

Krauthammer confronts Totenberg over why it's okay for her to still be an NPR employee, but not Williams. She obviously doesn't want to say anything that will get her into trouble, but one gets the feeling she thinks the firing was wrong:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... nberg.html

Krauthammer looks bored - as he dissects the vile hypocrisy of NPR. Too easy...

It's funny, no one would answer his simple question. Everyone knows the answer, but they are deeply afraid to utter the words. This is the power of PC.

[lennygoran]

>But yet in many large metro areas, it's an undeniable fact that most violent criminals are black. So I ask Len and John, if you're walking down a city street and the only people you see in front of you are a group of young black men who are dressed in hip-hop type garb, would the thought that you could potentially be walking into a dicey situation not even enter your mind? Would your thought process be the same as it would be if the only people in front of you were a couple young white men who are essentially dressed the same way that you are? Where is the line between bigotry and survival instinct?<

Very interesting questions for sure. I took a look at crime statistcs in Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_t ... _offenders

You get a very mixed set of numbers over there and I would like better info. There was this for example:

"As of 2008, a statistics report which surveyed all persons arrested for offending, stated that of the crimes surveyed for which the identity of the offender could be determined, 69.2 percent of all persons arrested were white or Hispanic, 28.3 percent of people arrested for offending were black or black and Hispanic; and the remaining 2.4 percent were of other races"

But it doesn't address the exact specifics you describe. Let's say I was in Philly and it was late after the Flower Show and we were walking back to the parking lot and it was isolated--I think both my wife and I would be concerned if down Arch St. we saw 4 young kids hanging out--can't measure if I'd feel more scared if they were white or black or muslim--it hasn't happened but I admit my fears might be greater if they were black--I think I probably would feel best if they were two older couples like ourselves and they were carrying a large bunch of pussey willows. Regards, Len

[lennygoran]

>So, in your opinion, expressing your opinion on an opinion show is a cause for dismissal. <

Well if a newsman displays bias on the public airwaves I think as I already indicated at least a reprimand or possibly dismissal might be warranted. Regards, Len

[Agnes Selby]

>So, in your opinion, expressing your opinion on an opinion show is a cause for dismissal. <

Well if a newsman displays bias on the public airwaves I think as I already indicated at least a reprimand or possibly dismissal might be warranted. Regards, Len

Lenny, with due respect, Williams was an "analyst of news" and not a newsman or
reporter. There is a distinction. When I worked in London for the "Hindustan Times"
I was an analyst and not a reporter of news. Hence, I had the privilege of expressing an
opinion and not be bound by the political convictions of the Gandhi brothers who owned
the newspaper. A reporter (newsman) reports the news as they happen, an analyst
"disects" the news for the company which employs him/her.

The dismissal of the "news analyst", Williams, after 10 years with the company, and to do
so brutally without an explanation, was totally unwarranted.

[Barry]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_t ... _offenders

You get a very mixed set of numbers over there and I would like better info. There was this for example:

"As of 2008, a statistics report which surveyed all persons arrested for offending, stated that of the crimes surveyed for which the identity of the offender could be determined, 69.2 percent of all persons arrested were white or Hispanic, 28.3 percent of people arrested for offending were black or black and Hispanic; and the remaining 2.4 percent were of other races"

But it doesn't address the exact specifics you describe. ...

Right. I said in many large metro areas. There are large areas in the country where the African-American population is so small, that it wouldn't be possible for them to commit a high percentage of the crimes. And I wouldn't expect my characterization to be applicable in nation-wide statistics either; although the total is still disproportionately high.

[lennygoran]

>Williams was an "analyst of news" and not a newsman or
reporter. There is a distinction.<

Yes, I can see that-- so what's his analysis of what he described--should airlines stop permitting muslims in religious garb on planes--should he stop being so fearful and biased--what actually is his point and does he have any solutions to offer--or was he just spouting off? What of value was gained from what he said? Regards, Len

[keaggy220]

Well deserved drubbing...

Amid anger, regret over Williams's firing, NPR staffers fear financial backlash

NPR faced fierce public and political reaction - most of it strongly negative - in the wake of its firing of commentator Juan Williams for comments he made on a Fox News program earlier in the week.

Even NPR's own staff expressed exasperation at the decision during a meeting Friday with NPR's president, Vivian Schiller. Several of those who attended said Schiller told employees that she regretted how she handled the episode.

The most serious issue facing NPR may be whether Williams's firing will cause lasting damage to public broadcasting's finances. Many conservative lawmakers and politicians - including House Minority Whip Eric Cantor (R-Va.), Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.) and former House speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.) - have called on Congress to curtail or eliminate federal subsidies for public broadcasting.

The threat of a funding cutoff is an old one among conservatives, who have long characterized NPR as a bastion of liberal bias. But some at NPR and in public broadcasting worry about the timing of the calls this time. The Williams controversy broke less than two weeks before a midterm election that may restore Republican control of the House and Senate.

While NPR receives only about 2 percent of its $154 million annual budget from federal sources, including the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and National Endowment for the Arts, its 800-plus member stations are much more reliant on tax subsidies. Some smaller stations receive as much as a third of their operating revenue from federal sources.

The firing drew thousands of e-mails and phone calls to NPR's downtown Washington headquarters, the majority of them expressing outrage. The deluge crashed the "Contact Us" form on NPR's Web site by Thursday afternoon, according to NPR ombudsman Alicia Shepard.

"They want NPR to hire him back immediately," Shepard wrote on NPR's site. "If NPR doesn't, they want all public funding of public radio to stop. They promise to never donate again. . . . It was daunting to answer the phone and hear so much unrestrained anger."


On an e-mail discussion group for public radio's station managers, Williams's firing drew both supportive and critical comments, but many questioned whether NPR could have avoided the public-relations firestorm with a different course of action.

NPR fired Williams late Wednesday after he told Fox News host Bill O'Reilly that he felt "nervous" when he boarded an airplane alongside people in "Muslim garb." Almost immediately after the firing, Fox News gave Williams a new contract worth nearly $2 million.

Washington-based NPR said the firing was the culmination of a long series of run-ins with Williams in which he was warned to stick to news analysis and not veer into personal opinions or inflammatory commentary. NPR executives have also said they have been concerned that Fox News has used Williams, an avowedly liberal analyst, to paint NPR itself as a liberal news organization rather than a nonpartisan one.

In a meeting with employees that had been scheduled before the Williams story broke, Schiller acknowledged that NPR didn't manage the firing well, but offered no specifics. She said NPR would conduct a "post-mortem" next week to review how the firing was handled, according to employees who attended the meeting, which was closed to the news media. Schiller didn't say who would handle the review or what the consequences of it might be.

An NPR spokeswoman, Dana Davis Rehm, said the review won't second-guess the decision itself, but would focus on how it was carried out. Schiller declined to comment.

Staffers said that at the Friday meeting, Schiller apologized again for telling an audience in Atlanta on Thursday that Williams should have kept his comments about Muslims between "himself and his psychiatrist."

"There wasn't anger" among NPR employees at the meeting, "but I did get a sense of despair and disappointment," said one NPR journalist, who asked not to be named because employees are not authorized to speak on the record about the matter. "I got the impression that [management] felt they had acted rashly and without deliberation. When [Schiller] made the psychiatrist crack, it just made matters much, much worse."

So far, Rehm said, the uproar over Williams's firing does not seem to have affected stations' ongoing pledge drives. In Washington, for example, public station WAMU-FM (88.5) was on track to surpass its goal of raising $1 million for the week.

Caryn Mathes, WAMU's general manager, declined to discuss the specifics of the Williams case, but said she supported NPR's effort to maintain consistent standards among its journalists. "News analysts and reporters and journalists and hosts are the lens through which our audiences view the world. When you make a very personal observation, it's almost like putting a big thumbprint on that lens. The next time the viewer looks through that lens, that's all he's going to see."

But Mathes said she hoped the controversy didn't translate into political action that could hurt all of public broadcasting. "I would hope that it reinforces how important it is for funding sources to be firewalled from editorial decisions. Whatever government funding a station gets needs to be protected from the vicissitudes of emotion and passion over a particular issue."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... id=topnews