Vatican Leaks.

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Agnes Selby
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Vatican Leaks.

Post by Agnes Selby » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:04 pm


lennygoran
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Re: Vatican Leaks.

Post by lennygoran » Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:09 pm

Agnes Selby wrote:http://www.smh.com.au/world/pope-calls- ... 1xqbj.html only interested in ''the message of Christ''
Would anyone happen to have his email address! Regards, Len [on the run] :)

John F
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Re: Vatican Leaks.

Post by John F » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:28 am

Pope Benedict has named Cardinal Julian Herranz, 82, to lead a three-man team that will haul in members of staff for questioning and rifle through files until they catch the perpetrators
For some reason this reminds me of the grand inquisitor in Verdi's "Don Carlo."
John Francis

jbuck919
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Re: Vatican Leaks.

Post by jbuck919 » Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:44 pm

Irritated by the anonymous release of documents to the press this year, Pope Benedict has named Cardinal Julian Herranz, 82, to lead a three-man team that will haul in members of staff for questioning and rifle through files until they catch the perpetrators of what has been dubbed ''Vatileaks''.
I'm holding out for Vatigate.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Agnes Selby
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Re: Vatican Leaks.

Post by Agnes Selby » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:20 pm

Yep! I could hear Verdi's music in the background too!!!

jbuck919
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Re: Vatican Leaks.

Post by jbuck919 » Fri May 25, 2012 4:28 pm

The New York Times

May 25, 2012
Pope's Butler Arrested in Leaks Investigation
By REUTERS

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Benedict's butler was arrested on Friday in connection with an investigation into leaks of confidential documents, some alleging cronyism and corruption in Vatican contracts, a senior Vatican source said.

The scandal, which has come to be known as "Vatileaks", involves the leaking of a string of documents to Italian media in January and February, including personal letters to the pope.

Some of the documents involved allegations of corruption, mismanagement and cronyism in the awarding of contracts for work in the Vatican and internal disagreement on the management of the Vatican bank.

The president of the Vatican bank, Ettore Gotti Tedeschi, was ousted by its board on Thursday.

Vatican spokesmen said earlier on Friday that a person in possession of confidential documents had been arrested but that they could not disclose his position or identity until they were given permission from Vatican investigators.

The Vatican source confirmed reports by Italian media that the person arrested was the butler.

"It's all very sad," another senior Vatican source said, commenting on an episode that is the latest in a string of embarrassments for the Vatican.

The pope's butler serves in the apartments of the Apostolic Palace, serving at the papal tables, handing rosaries to visiting dignitaries and riding in the first seat of the popemobile at papal audiences.

As an intimate member of the papal household, he is privy to the goings on in the most reserved and private rooms in the Vatican.

Italian media said investigators had found documents in his apartment.

The pope, who has been shocked and saddened by the leaks, ordered several investigations, including one headed by Vatican police and another by a commission of cardinals.

The leaked documents included letters by an archbishop who was transferred to Washington after he blew the whistle on what he saw as a web of corruption and cronyism, a memo which put a number of cardinals in a bad light, and documents alleging internal conflicts about the Vatican Bank.

In January, an Italian television investigation broadcast private letters to Secretary of State Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone and the pope from Archbishop Carlo Maria Vigano, the former deputy governor of Vatican City and currently the Holy See's ambassador in Washington.

The letters showed that Vigano was transferred after he exposed what he argued was a web of corruption, nepotism and cronyism linked to the awarding of contracts to Italian contractors at inflated prices.

In one letter, Vigano wrote of a smear campaign against him by other Vatican officials who were upset that he had taken drastic steps to clean up the purchasing procedures. He begged to stay in the job to finish what he had started.

Bertone responded by removing Vigano from his position three years before the end of his tenure and sending him to the United States, despite his strong resistance.

So, um, is this butler's name also a state secret?

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Dennis Spath
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Re: Vatican Leaks.

Post by Dennis Spath » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:02 pm

From where I sit, here in East Texas Baptist Country, this Vatican story in small potatoes compared to their dissing of American Nuns, and the Bishops questioning the integrity of the Girl Scouts of America for allowing a Denver Troup to enroll a few LBGT leaning girls as members.
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John F
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Re: Vatican Leaks.

Post by John F » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:41 am

As I remember, it was speculated that the elevation of Joseph Ratzinger to the papacy might lead to just this kind of Catholic authoritarianism, from which John Paul II abstained while remaining firm on doctrinal issues. And now it's happening. As a non-religious and non-believing person, I have a lot of sympathy for the American nuns who are now under attack from the Vatican's patriarchs - "attack" isn't too strong a word. But I have to wonder why independent-minded women, American women, would take holy orders and become Catholic nuns in the first place. They've always had it coming to them, and shouldn't be surprised that now it's coming at them.
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Re: Vatican Leaks.

Post by jbuck919 » Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:41 am

John F wrote:As I remember, it was speculated that the elevation of Joseph Ratzinger to the papacy might lead to just this kind of Catholic authoritarianism, from which John Paul II abstained while remaining firm on doctrinal issues. And now it's happening. As a non-religious and non-believing person, I have a lot of sympathy for the American nuns who are now under attack from the Vatican's patriarchs - "attack" isn't too strong a word. But I have to wonder why independent-minded women, American women, would take holy orders and become Catholic nuns in the first place. They've always had it coming to them, and shouldn't be surprised that now it's coming at them.
A slight correction: Only ordained men take holy orders; women religious make vows.

I would not call the way JP II ran the church "abstaining from authoritarianism." This development is a very logical progression from the way he did things. You have to go back to Paul VI to find a pope who was willing to give latitude (and then before him back to Jesus maybe).

The current community of active, vocal sisters (there are still some who prefer the old ways) consists of mainly two groups. The first is old women who started out when the orders were all conforming and submissive and went through their own form of women's lib in the 1960s and 70s. To ask why they took vows knowing what they were getting into is about like asking why women married and became stay-at-home mothers and housewives (or teachers or nurses) but rejected that strait-jacket when it became possible. The other group is middle-aged women who joined the orders thinking that the liberated status would persist, not having a good reason to anticipate what JP II and now the current pope would pull on them. Very few young women are taking vows these days.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

John F
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Re: Vatican Leaks.

Post by John F » Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:34 am

You obviously know more about the inner workings of the church than I do, and with good reason. But when I said that John Paul II "abstained from authoritarianism," I meant that he never did or sanctioned anything (that I know of) like this attack on American nuns' integrity; that, I thought, belonged to a much older time.

And I don't think it's a valid comparison between becoming a wife (let alone a nurse or teacher) and becoming a nun, metaphors of the bride of Christ aside. It has been generations since these secular roles entailed anything like the unquestioning obedience and conformity, despite the urgings of one's own conscience, that evidently are implicit in a nun's role.

Since independence of mind, especially in women, is clearly not welcome in the Catholic church, and I believe never has been (people used to be burned at the stake for it), I say again that I wonder that independent-minded women would voluntarily submit themselves to the role of a nun. Clearly some do, and maybe as you suggest it's because some were submissive women at the time and grew out of it, and others didn't actually understand what they were getting into. My wonderment isn't that such things happen, but that presumably intelligent people choose to do them - we're not talking about the Darwin Awards here.
John Francis

Dennis Spath
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Re: Vatican Leaks.

Post by Dennis Spath » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:40 pm

John Paul II was very much a traditionalist, and lived long enough to squash several of the hoped for "reforms" which many Catholics had hoped for following Vatican II. John XXIII elevated hundreds of "liberal" Priests to titular Bishops for the purpose of creating a reform minded majority in the 2nd Vatican Council. I had the pleasure of working with one of those reformer Bishops in Davenport, Iowa (Gerald O"Keefe) on his Diocesan Lay Council which met monthly.

My role turned out to be the peacemaker between liberals (who wanted immediate changes) and Conservatives (who wanted no changes whatsoever). This was during 1975-77 aftermath of the Viet Nam war, and changes like the Mass in English were being introduced. Emotions often ran high along political as well as liturgical reform issues. One hoped for reform was the relaxating of the arbitrary rule of celibacy among secular (vs "religious") priests. which was traditional in the Eastern Rite Catholic Churches. Another was married "Deacons" who could also study for the priesthood.

John Paul II selectively appointed "Conservative" Bishops by the hundreds and almost doubled the number of Cardinals relatively early upon assuming the Papacy. While still a Bishop in Poland he was the primary advisor to Paul VI with regard to the issue of oral contraceptives for married Catholic women.....which his own advisory committee had recommended (29 for, only 5 against). What resulted was the Encyclical Humanae Vitae, the dictates of which are ignored by at least 90% of churchgoing Catholics.

Celebrated Historian Garry Wills is my age and an authority on these and other topics related to the modern papacy and the Church after Vatican II. His considered opinions on the papacy since Pius IX are spelled out in his best seller "Papal Sin". Anyone interest can get the flavor of his opinions by checking out his WIKI Bio.
It's good to be back among friends from the past.

living_stradivarius
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Re: Vatican Leaks.

Post by living_stradivarius » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:41 pm

someone please break this guy out
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Dennis Spath
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Re: Vatican Leaks.

Post by Dennis Spath » Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:18 pm

Dennis Spath wrote:John Paul II was very much a traditionalist, and lived long enough to squash several of the hoped for "reforms" which many Catholics had hoped for following Vatican II. John XXIII elevated hundreds of "liberal" Priests to titular Bishops for the purpose of creating a reform minded majority in the 2nd Vatican Council. I had the pleasure of working with one of those reformer Bishops in Davenport, Iowa (Gerald O"Keefe) on his Diocesan Lay Council which met monthly.

My role turned out to be the peacemaker between liberals (who wanted immediate changes) and Conservatives (who wanted no changes whatsoever). This was during 1975-77 aftermath of the Viet Nam war, and changes like the Mass in English were being introduced. Emotions often ran high along political as well as liturgical reform issues. One hoped for reform was the relaxating of the arbitrary rule of celibacy among secular (vs "religious") priests, which was traditional in the Eastern Rite Catholic Churches. Another was married "Deacons" who could also study for the priesthood.

John Paul II selectively appointed "Conservative" Bishops by the hundreds during his reign and almost doubled the number of Cardinals relatively early upon assuming the Papacy. While still a Bishop in Poland he was the primary advisor to Paul VI with regard to the issue of oral contraceptives for married Catholic women.....which his own advisory committee had recommended (29 for, only 5 against). What resulted was the Encyclical Humanae Vitae, the dictates of which are ignored by at least 90% of churchgoing Catholics. (Papal Encyclicals are considered "advisory" rather than mandatory)

Celebrated Historian Garry Wills is my age and an authority on these and other topics related to the modern papacy and the Church after Vatican II. His considered opinions on the papacy since Pius IX are spelled out in his best seller "Papal Sin". Anyone interested can get the flavor of his opinions by checking out his WIKI Bio.
It's good to be back among friends from the past.

John F
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Re: Vatican Leaks.

Post by John F » Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:49 am

LCWR Board Meets to Review CDF Report
June 1, 2012

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

[Washington, DC] The national board of the Leadership Conference of Women Religious (LCWR) held a special meeting in Washington, DC from May 29-31 to review, and plan a response to, the report issued to LCWR by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

The board members raised concerns about both the content of the doctrinal assessment and the process by which it was prepared. Board members concluded that the assessment was based on unsubstantiated accusations and the result of a flawed process that lacked transparency. Moreover, the sanctions imposed were disproportionate to the concerns raised and could compromise their ability to fulfill their mission. The report has furthermore caused scandal and pain throughout the church community, and created greater polarization.

The board determined that the conference will take the following steps:

On June 12 the LCWR president and executive director will return to Rome to meet with CDF prefect Cardinal William Levada and the apostolic delegate Archbishop Peter Sartain to raise and discuss the board’s concerns.
Following the discussions in Rome, the conference will gather its members both in regional meetings and in its August assembly to determine its response to the CDF report.

The board recognizes this matter has deeply touched Catholics and non-Catholics throughout the world as evidenced by the thousands of messages of support as well as the dozens of prayer vigils held in numerous parts of the country. It believes that the matters of faith and justice that capture the hearts of Catholic sisters are clearly shared by many people around the world. As the church and society face tumultuous times, the board believes it is imperative that these matters be addressed by the entire church community in an atmosphere of openness, honesty, and integrity.

https://lcwr.org/media/news/lcwr-board- ... cdf-report
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jbuck919
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Re: Vatican Leaks.

Post by jbuck919 » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:43 pm

Although this action clearly had the pope's approval, there is little doubt in my mind that Levada is chiefly responsible for the formulation, just as Ratzinger was responsible for all the enforcing that happened under JP II. So these nuns are going to confront a fellow American without the need for considerations of interpretation or subtle cultural differences, or even particularly considerations of rank (a Catholic boy from the old days who might well have been the pupil of sisters from one of their orders when nuns were what nuns were reputed to be). I hope they give him holy hell.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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