What if Israel bombed Iran?

[John F]

We've all been thinking about this and wondering what might happen. Karim Sadjadpour and Blake Hounshell provide a long and detailed scenario which is fiction, since none of this has happened, but some of it might become fact. I cut it off where I did because the story peters out badly, with nothing about what Iran and the U.S. might actually do after the bombing, but it's a good, lively read.


What if Israel bombed Iran? The view from Washington.
By Karim Sadjadpour and Blake Hounshell
Published: September 21

For months, Israel has threatened to strike Iran’s nuclear sites. The United States has urged restraint. If such an operation were launched, how might Washington react?

President Obama is enjoying a quiet dinner with Michelle, Sasha and Malia at the White House residence on a Thursday evening in October when he gets the call.

Two dozen Israeli fighter jets have just entered Jordanian airspace, apparently en route to Iran, chief of staff Jack Lew tells him. They will enter Iranian airspace, via Iraq, in approximately 85 minutes.

“Damn it,” Obama says under his breath. “Bibi told me he was going to hold off.”

Within 45 minutes, the president’s national security brain trust has convened in the Situation Room. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta informs the group that attempts to reach Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu have so far failed but that Israeli military commanders are briefing the Pentagon on Israel’s targets.

Panetta lays out the United States’ options: either persuade Netanyahu to call it off, or shoot down the planes. “Shooting down the planes is not an option!” Vice President Biden explodes. “Tell Bibi the president of the United States wants to talk to him now!”

Within minutes, Netanyahu’s voice is heard on the speakerphone, and he immediately preempts any attempts to call off the mission. “I couldn’t wait any longer, Mr. President,” he says firmly. “I am responsible for the security of the Jewish nation.”

As Netanyahu explains the operation, Obama eyes the large electronic map of the Middle East on the Situation Room wall. The coordinates of the Israeli planes show that they’re nearing Iran.

“Mr. President,” Netanyahu says. “I hope we can count on your full support.” Obama’s face masks his scorn. He pauses for several moments before responding. “You know I respect Israel’s right to defend itself,” he says, “but I need to do what’s in the interests of the United States.”

Panetta orders the head of U.S. Central Command, Gen. James Mattis, to activate Operation Gulf Shield, putting America’s military forces throughout the Middle East on their highest defensive posture, bracing for Iranian retaliation.

Obama surveys the room. “What do we tell the Iranians?” he asks. “They’re going to assume we’re behind this.”

The battle lines are quickly drawn. Susan Rice — the ambassador to the United Nations and a close Obama confidante, who is in the running to replace Hillary Rodham Clinton as secretary of state — is the first to chime in, via secure video teleconference: “We need to be clear that the Israelis acted without our knowledge. We need to urge Iran to exercise restraint while we restrain Israel.”

“With respect,” CIA Director David H. Petraeus says, “if we send them that message, they’ll think they can retaliate without us responding. The Iranians need to believe that if they respond, the United States will enter this war — and swiftly and decisively end it.” “I agree with David,” Clinton says. “The Iranians need to know there is no daylight they can exploit between us and the Israelis.”

Within hours, Twitter is alight with reports of explosions in various parts of Iran...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... story.html

[jbuck919]

Continuing this semi-fantasy scenario:

Obama is a lame duck in his second term. He tells Netanyahu that Israel is on its own and that his sole concern is protecting American lives.

(Oh dear, you don't suppose that the anticipation of that will make Bobo, excuse me Bibi, do it before the election, do you?)

[Agnes Selby]

Another scenario... Iran bombs Israel and Obama and Michele continue their
dinner with a shrug of their shoulders.

[Tarantella]

Allow me a simple analogy from teaching, if you please. Very often an extremely troubled and disruptive student will be impossible to deal with: the 'system' gives the student endless possibilities to reform (welfare and other affirmative - read 'permissive' - action programs) and a (so-called) discipline system when punitive responses are called for. Neither work because the child doesn't have support at home and simply doesn't care anyway. The child will be suspended: that's good - he/she doesn't like school anyway. Clearly 'sanctions' don't work. On a particular day a teacher, such as myself, will say "enough: I will deal with this my way - it's my way or the highway!" This will sometimes unwittingly back the student into the proverbial corner and that student will come out fighting and with 'all guns blazing' because he/she doesn't care anymore and has NOTHING ELSE LEFT TO LOSE and is perfectly willing to hurt others. I've seen the damaging consequences of that kind of confrontation - students throwing chairs, banging the heads of other students (those seen as being well regarded by the teacher) up against a concrete wall and getting 'into the face' of the teacher in the most demonstrably aggressive and threatening way. I had one 14 year old boy say to me, "By the time I'm finished with you, you'll have nothing left but a cardboard box"!

(Consequences: well, there are several really - NO ACTION from the school in support of the teacher, school system's discipline regime in tatters, lots of family dysfunction in society, teacher abandons profession leaving demoralized professionals to cope, students have control of the agenda and, far more disturbingly, the long-term effects of all of this on the society.)

Extrapolate that, if you will, to the nation of Iran....

[Bro]

Another scenario: Neither country bombs the other and we just go about our boring little lives making BIG DEALS out of nothing.

[Tarantella]

I'm fortunate not to have a 'boring little life'!! I wasn't advocating bombing either, if you look at what I wrote.

I daresay the Israeli people would disagree with you about it being about "nothing".

[jbuck919]

Another scenario: Neither country bombs the other and we just go about our boring little lives making BIG DEALS out of nothing.

The premise here was that a bombing was taking place, though I also hope that this is not likely.

[Tarantella]

..and we should all be very afraid.

[lennygoran]

Extrapolate that, if you will, to the nation of Iran....

With all due respect--hey this sounds familiar! --I don't think that analogy works. Iran's president
dangerous as he is and the whole country of Iran can't imho be compared to disciplining an unruly child. BTW I taught for 2 years in one of the roughest junior high schools in Bedford Stuyvesant, Brooklyn, NY--I'm not offering that as trying to be an expert but simply as an aside. Regards, Len

[Tarantella]

You don't think Iran analogous to the badly behaved child that 'the system' has tried to 'correct' through 'sanctions' (discipline, etc.) and when that fails and confrontation occurs that 'child' is willing to destroy himself and everyone else? You don't think it analogous with a 'dysfunctional family' which doesn't care and threatens social disharmony because of its failure to accept responsibility and be brought into line? I call it the 'tyranny of dysfunction'. And it's the dysfunction that dare not speak its name because, being so pervasive, no government is game enough to confront the rapidly-growing problem. For 'school' read 'international community'. I dare not qualify which organized religion I'm referring to in my 'dysfunction' comment!

Just off metaphor - but it is tangentially related - in our country teachers like myself were forced to deal with this issue, IN A TYPICAL COMPREHENSIVE high-school, on a daily basis. How galling is it, then, to hear your Prime Minister and others telling teachers they have to 'lift their game' to improve results and student outcomes; that they need to be better educated, smarter teachers because Australia is falling behind. (To mix metaphors and species) it's a 'red herring' and the elephant in the room is (my personally-defined) 'tyranny of dysfunction'!! Talk about letting society off the hook!!!

You were working in Spike Lee territory!!!

[lennygoran]

You don't think Iran analogous to the badly behaved child that 'the system' has tried to 'correct' through 'sanctions' (discipline, etc.) and when that fails and confrontation occurs that 'child' is willing to destroy himself and everyone else?

I'm no expert but I don't think it's analogous--a child in a school is one thing--leaders of a rogue country are another--at least that is how I see it but I suppose I could be persuaded? Regards, Len

[jbuck919]

You don't think Iran analogous to the badly behaved child that 'the system' has tried to 'correct' through 'sanctions' (discipline, etc.) and when that fails and confrontation occurs that 'child' is willing to destroy himself and everyone else?

I'm no expert but I don't think it's analogous--a child in a school is one thing--leaders of a rogue country are another--at least that is how I see it but I suppose I could be persuaded? Regards, Len

I agree that it is a bad analogy.

[Tarantella]

Forget about it. Metaphors obviously don't work on this message-board.

[jbuck919]

Forget about it. Metaphors obviously don't work on this message-board.

Of course they do. Now let's see, what's a good metaphor for someone who overreacts?

[John F]

A more apt metaphor might be of a mentally unbalanced grown-up who buys a private arsenal of guns, ammunition, and explosives, claiming it's all for peaceable use, but possibly intending to go to a movie theatre during the premiere of a Batman movie and kill everybody he can. Childish, Iran is definitely not; insane, Iran may possibly be.

[lennygoran]

Forget about it. Metaphors obviously don't work on this message-board.

Aw, come on--aren't you being what we would call a sore loser in the world of sports--that probably goes for both baseball and cricket--oops Len that's the other thread! Regards, Len [on the run]

[jbuck919]

Forget about it. Metaphors obviously don't work on this message-board.

Aw, come on--aren't you being what we would call a sore loser in the world of sports--that probably goes for both baseball and cricket--oops Len that's the other thread! Regards, Len [on the run]

Aha, the metaphor!

[lennygoran]

Aha, the metaphor!

I'll say right off the bat I had to go look up metaphor--I had an idea of it but in this thread one wants to be as clear as possible.

Wiki:
"A metaphor is a literary figure of speech that describes a subject by asserting that it is, on some point of comparison, the same as another otherwise unrelated object. Metaphor is a type of analogy and is closely related to other rhetorical figures of speech that achieve their effects via association, comparison or resemblance including allegory, hyperbole, and simile.

"One of the most prominent examples of a metaphor in English literature is the All the world's a stage monologue from As You Like It:
All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances; — William Shakespeare, As You Like It, 2/7[1]
This quote is a metaphor because the world is not literally a stage. By figuratively asserting that the world is a stage, Shakespeare uses the points of comparison between the world and a stage to convey an understanding about how the world works and the lives of the people within it."

So now I have to ask--when I question if Sue is being a sore loser am I using a metaphor? Regards, Len [admitting he's in over his head ]

[Auntie Lynn]

If Israel bombs Iran, they will blame George Bush...

[lennygoran]

If Israel bombs Iran, they will blame George Bush...

First who are the "they." As for myself I'll blame Israel--possibly Romney. Regards, Len

[John F]

So now I have to ask--when I question if Sue is being a sore loser am I using a metaphor?

The "sore" part, yes - you aren't talking about physical pain here.

Many metaphors are a kind of comparison between different objects or concepts. Another kind is simile, which makes the comparison explicit: "All the world is like a stage, and all the men and women are like players." You convert simile to metaphor simply by leaving out the word "like."

Language is full of what's called "dead metaphors," metaphors so commonly used and taken for granted that people no longer think of them as figures of speech. You can tell a metaphor is dead when people say "literally," as in "he literally exploded with rage." Rage doesn't cause a loud bang and send body parts flying in all directions, that's what hand grenades do - literally. People don't literally mean "literally" much of the time, they just stick it into the sentence as an all-purpose intensifier.

I always knew that English major would come in handy some day.

[lennygoran]

So now I have to ask--when I question if Sue is being a sore loser am I using a metaphor?

The "sore" part, yes - you aren't talking about physical pain here.

Many metaphors are a kind of comparison between different objects or concepts. Another kind is simile, which makes the comparison explicit: "All the world is like a stage, and all the men and women are like players." You convert simile to metaphor simply by leaving out the word "like."

Language is full of what's called "dead metaphors," metaphors so commonly used and taken for granted that people no longer think of them as figures of speech. You can tell a metaphor is dead when people say "literally," as in "he literally exploded with rage." Rage doesn't cause a loud bang and send body parts flying in all directions, that's what hand grenades do - literally. People don't literally mean "literally" much of the time, they just stick it into the sentence as an all-purpose intensifier.

I always knew that English major would come in handy some day.

Thanks for all this--very interesting material--it almost makes me afraid to put ink to paper--now what if I said it literally makes me afraid to put ink to paper--would you explode with rage or would you literally explode with rage! Regards, Len [very quick retreat!]

[lennygoran]

The "sore" part, yes - you aren't talking about physical pain here.

Just thought of something else--what if my comments are giving her physical pain--for example a very large headache! Regards, Len

[John F]

That still wouldn't be a "sore head." Nobody has ever used that expression for a headache. Precision, precision!

[jbuck919]

"All the world is like a stage, and all the men and women are like players."

Some English major!

[lennygoran]

That still wouldn't be a "sore head." Nobody has ever used that expression for a headache. Precision, precision!

Well with regard to precision that's definitely not one of my strong points. Originally I was using the term sore loser but now I see sore head popping up--are they exactly the same in meaning or might there be a difference--and would any difference be literal or figurative. Regards, Len [ashamed]

[jbuck919]

That still wouldn't be a "sore head." Nobody has ever used that expression for a headache. Precision, precision!

Well with regard to precision that's definitely not one of my strong points. Originally I was using the term sore loser but now I see sore head popping up--are they exactly the same in meaning or might there be a difference--and would any difference be literal or figurative. Regards, Len [ashamed]

What on earth are you talking about? Continue with your excellent educated intuitive usage and stop worrying about whether you are fulfilling some obscure technical requirement. I drive myself crazy double-thinking everything I write so that John F won't edit it. Don't let yourself fall into that trap.

Cheers,

John (off to look at a little Shakespeare)

[lennygoran]

Continue with your excellent educated intuitive usage and stop worrying about whether you are fulfilling some obscure technical requirement.

Hey I like this! Still Buck, you don't want to Buck John F! Further let's not forget this famous metaphor: "All our words are but crumbs that fall down from the feast of the mind.
Khalil Gibran" Regards, Len [I'm out of here!]

[Tarantella]

All I'll contribute to this 'discussion' about metaphor is my qualifications: BA(Hons.) MA Dip.Ed.

Now I'll leave it at that. Oh, and Woody Allen complained once, "Americans don't get irony". May I add another literary device to that list?

[lennygoran]

Oh, and Woody Allen complained once, "Americans don't get irony". May I add another literary device to that list?

Gee I thought I had a little knowledge on irony and loved Woody until he thought he was Ingmar Bergman and then what he did to Puccini's Gianni Schicchi was inexcusable! Regards, Len [g]