Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

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CharmNewton
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Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by CharmNewton » Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:08 pm

Jonathan Gruber and Mark Pauly provide an economic perspective to the ACA. Clips from this video made the news yesterday, but here is the whole thing. This discussion took place in October, 2013 shortly after the rollout of the ACA.

http://www.youtube.com/v/iHihDa_VPWw&hl ... 2=0x6b8ab6

John

Auntie Lynn
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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by Auntie Lynn » Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:52 am

There's a huge thread on the ACA over on the Amazon Politics forum - nobody likes it - some of the horror stories would be unbelievable except they are true. The big hope over there is that the Republicans will get rid of it...

John F
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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by John F » Wed Nov 12, 2014 4:40 am

Auntie Lynn wrote:The big hope over there is that the Republicans will get rid of it...
Except, of course, for the many parts of it that everybody likes.
John Francis

lennygoran
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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by lennygoran » Wed Nov 12, 2014 6:55 am

John F wrote: Except, of course, for the many parts of it that everybody likes.
Hillary better win! Regards, Len :!:

Auntie Lynn
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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by Auntie Lynn » Wed Nov 12, 2014 8:59 am

Don't look now, but the parts everybody liked were already extant before ACA - like the COST!! which I understand is horrible...

I asked over there for ANYBODY to name me one thing BHO has done, and came up dry - and it's a huge forum...

Auntie Lynn
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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by Auntie Lynn » Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:29 am

Here are the 10,535 pages of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (a.k.a.
Obama Care) condensed to 4 sentences:

1. In order to insure the uninsured, we first have to uninsure the insured.
2. Next, we require the newly uninsured to be re-insured.
3. To re-insure the newly uninsured, they are required to pay extra charges to be
re-insured.
4. The extra charges are required so that the original insured, who became uninsured, and
then became re-insured, can pay enough extra so that the original uninsured can be
insured, which will be free of charge to them.

rwetmore
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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by rwetmore » Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:06 pm

Auntie Lynn wrote:Here are the 10,535 pages of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (a.k.a.
Obama Care) condensed to 4 sentences:

1. In order to insure the uninsured, we first have to uninsure the insured.
2. Next, we require the newly uninsured to be re-insured.
3. To re-insure the newly uninsured, they are required to pay extra charges to be
re-insured.
4. The extra charges are required so that the original insured, who became uninsured, and
then became re-insured, can pay enough extra so that the original uninsured can be
insured, which will be free of charge to them.
You forgot one thing, and that's that the original uninsured were already effectively insured by the original insured, because there are so many ways in which the original uninsured can get out of paying for medical services if they use or need them. In other words, the original uninsured were being subsidized by the original insured already.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
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Auntie Lynn
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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by Auntie Lynn » Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:10 pm

This just in!! 53% of "the folks" want the Republican congress to run the country vs. 36% for BHO...

rwetmore
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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by rwetmore » Wed Nov 12, 2014 12:17 pm

Auntie Lynn wrote:This just in!! 53% of "the folks" want the Republican congress to run the country vs. 36% for BHO...
Given the election results, this is supposed to be news?
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

John F
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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by John F » Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:33 pm

Auntie Lynn wrote:Don't look now, but the parts everybody liked were already extant before ACA
That's not true. Thanks to the ACA, you now can't be denied health insurance because of a pre-existing condition. You can't have your health insurance cut off as soon as you actually make a claim, or when the cost of your health care exceeds an arbitrary limit. If you have children, they can be covered by your health insurance much longer than before. The ACA provides for free preventive services - annual physical exams, immunizations, screening, and counseling that previously had to be paid for. That's just off the top of my head. These and other popular provisions of the ACA did not exist before it.
John Francis

Auntie Lynn
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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by Auntie Lynn » Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:04 pm

That is, of course, if you are able to negotiate the crappy website and actually get in - at a pretty exorbitant cost...

How's the keep your doctor lie working out...?

jbuck919
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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by jbuck919 » Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:16 am

Auntie Lynn wrote:That is, of course, if you are able to negotiate the crappy website and actually get in - at a pretty exorbitant cost...

How's the keep your doctor lie working out...?
The website has been fixed, and the cost remains higher than it should be because we do not have single-payer system and Congress makes things artificially high-priced for the sake of the private health insurance and pharma lobby. If we had single payer like every other country that counts, keep your own doctor would be irrelevant. (In fact, I had to choose a more expensive ACA plan to keep my own doctor, but if we had proper universal care this would not be an issue in the first place.)

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Auntie Lynn
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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by Auntie Lynn » Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:28 am

Ah, the stupidity of the American voter...X 3

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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by jbuck919 » Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:32 am

Auntie Lynn wrote:Ah, the stupidity of the American voter...X 3
That's right. They vote for Republicans against their own best interest. I'm sure that's what you meant. ;)

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Auntie Lynn
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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by Auntie Lynn » Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:22 am

No, snooky, I was referring to Dr. Jonathan Gruber’s thrice postulated statement that
ACA was constructed by the Democrats so as to get past the American voter...gotta read
it so we know what’s in it. Even Nancy told BHO she could never sell this mess...

jbuck919
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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by jbuck919 » Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:40 am

Auntie Lynn wrote:No, snooky, I was referring to Dr. Jonathan Gruber’s thrice postulated statement that
ACA was constructed by the Democrats so as to get past the American voter...gotta read
it so we know what’s in it. Even Nancy told BHO she could never sell this mess...
It is only a mess because we could not have managed something better on the model of a true national health plan. Of course it is problematic. Original Social Security was also a hard sell in a country that would still be half desperately in poverty if we didn't use back-door methods to achieve such programs when the rest of the world realizes that we are all in the same boat and votes for them enthusiastically. Goody for you, "snooky" right back, that you think you are immune from this or don't care about living in a decent society.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

lennygoran
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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by lennygoran » Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:45 am

jbuck919 wrote: "snooky" right back, that you think you are immune from this or don't care about living in a decent society.
You got off easy this time--seems to me it's time for someone to get reprimanded and possibly bumped--if I were in charge this would come to a quick end:

"irrelevant idiot in the White House and his fat butt wife bucky beaver snooky Anyway, who appointed you the Forum Nazi?"

Auntie Lynn
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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by Auntie Lynn » Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:51 am

Oh, come off it - you guys are absolutely fascinated *with me - am I the only interesting person here - you hang around salivating for my next post...

lennygoran
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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by lennygoran » Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:53 am

Auntie Lynn wrote:Oh, come off it - you guy are absolutely fascinated with me - am I the only interesting person here - and I am rarely here...
Surely you jest-fascinated, nope-disgusted is what it is. You think very highly of yourself to think I'd be fascinated with you.

jbuck919
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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by jbuck919 » Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:58 am

Auntie Lynn wrote:Oh, come off it - you guys are absolutely fascinated *with me - am I the only interesting person here - you hang around salivating for my next post...
I hang around waiting for you to resign, which I hope you would. Enough is enough.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

Auntie Lynn
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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by Auntie Lynn » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:03 am

Oh, my -- here you are tugging at the leash - what losers - you-all must have worked for Solyndra...that's why you have so much time on your hands...

Auntie Lynn
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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by Auntie Lynn » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:15 am

Eckshully, even though I don’t take prisoners, a reasonable suggestion would be to wait
until after the first of 2015 when the real ACA nightmare kicks in and the taxpayer is
supporting umpty-zillion illegals all on the dole. Meanwhile, you can all go back to talking
to each other and admiring Michelle’s fat butt - even Vogue magazine couldn’t do
anything with her -- then you know you’re in trouble - tiresome, tiresome, tiresome ..time
to man-up fellas...

RebLem
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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by RebLem » Tue Nov 18, 2014 11:19 am

Auntie Lynn wrote:Eckshully, even though I don’t take prisoners, a reasonable suggestion would be to wait
until after the first of 2015 when the real ACA nightmare kicks in and the taxpayer is
supporting umpty-zillion illegals all on the dole. Meanwhile, you can all go back to talking
to each other and admiring Michelle’s fat butt - even Vogue magazine couldn’t do
anything with her -- then you know you’re in trouble - tiresome, tiresome, tiresome ..time
to man-up fellas...
Or maybe we can wait until the GOPers get all the illegals out of the country, and we can't buy fruits or vegetables in the supermarket anymore because all the people who harvest them have been deported.

And I wonder how those rural GOPers are going to feel after their party shuts down all their post offices.
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CharmNewton
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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by CharmNewton » Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:04 pm

RebLem wrote: Or maybe we can wait until the GOPers get all the illegals out of the country, and we can't buy fruits or vegetables in the supermarket anymore because all the people who harvest them have been deported.

And I wonder how those rural GOPers are going to feel after their party shuts down all their post offices.
You'll be seeing more and more agricultural work being performed by robots, which are well suited to difficult environments.

The Post Office (or at least the post) is constitutionally mandated, by the way.

Did you or anyone else watch the video all the way through?

John

jbuck919
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Re: Two Obamacare architects discuss the ACA

Post by jbuck919 » Tue Nov 18, 2014 10:01 pm

The other John is correct about the mail post being mentioned in the Constitution, but it is an assignment rather than a mandate. There would be no controversy if we were able to abolish it conveniently unlike the case with the Second Amendment.

Curiously, I am on both sides of this. I know personally every single postal employee in Stony Creek, where the Post Office is about to have to revert to four hours per day. Locals were polled to decide which four hours, but were not given the option of a continuing full-time Post Office. As bad as I feel for our postmistress, I understand and agree with this. The neighboring towns of Hadley and Lake Luzerne have post offices within walking distance, and one of them should have been closed long ago. The problem is that hey are technically in two different counties (Saratoga and Warren). But those two communities already have a consolidated library, and my mother already graduated from their consolidated school system in 1938.

At the other end, I have an important friend from Washington/Baltimore days with whom I was reunited a few weeks ago. If you want to know the truth, he was someone I importantly mentored as a young boy, which did not keep him from getting into serious trouble. Now he has a wonderful wife and kid (who plays the double bass in her school orchestra, and I am not making this up), and manages people in three figures for the Postal Service in Northern Virginia. I am as proud of him as I could be of the son I never had. The responsibility for the delivery of traditional mail in Washington DC and vicinity is still at the level of "Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds."

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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