Germany is at it again.

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absinthe
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Germany is at it again.

Post by absinthe » Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:03 pm

Just passing through so I thought to mention about the "immigration crisis" in Europe and Merkel's triumphal but foolish compassion by inviting all and sundry refugees to Germany. Of course, only about 20% are refugees, the rest chancers who want an easy life in the lands of milk and honey at taxpayers' expense.

Not surprisingly she now has almost a million on her hands with more flooding in - and can't cope. So in a typically German text-book reaction she now demands that other EU nations take a quota - or else. Brussels, her mouthpiece, has voted on it...with as you imagine, fury from some nations. Hungary has closed its borders with Croatia. Slovenia is just sending them through. So she has tried to bribe Turkey to provide camps. Turkey has bitten back. Now the German administration is evicting Germans from their homes to make way for "refugees".

Add that to the Euro, to the debt she's used to chain some states to Germany, she really has become the new Fuehrer. The Greek parliament is now subordinated to Berlin.

My view (and I'm far from alone) is that since Germany hasn't succeeded in ruling its EU empire, it's going to wreck the place, just as it did twice last century. It can't seem to escape the compulsion.

Britain is currently in the throes of deciding whether to stay in the EU or not. I'm an "OUTist". Anyone who wants to stay in must grow used to being ruled from Berlin if there's any Europe left by the time the crunch comes. Referendum fever is catching on all over.

What a mess.
Last edited by absinthe on Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

oisfetz
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by oisfetz » Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:21 pm

If Merkel respect the traditional German conduct, very soon you'll see the refugees forced to live on concentration camps. And if it the problem gets worst, she'll get rid of them.

jbuck919
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by jbuck919 » Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:30 pm

Unless I am reading all the wrong articles, Britain's problem is not membership in the EU, but that it is going the same way as the US by moving away even further from being a decent society in favor of the agenda of the very rich. The situation may actually be worse over there, since you started out on higher moral ground than the US has ever reached.

As for Germany, it was obvious from the beginning that they might be stretching themselves beyond their capacity to absorb people fleeing the danger spots in the Middle East. Nevertheless, I find no evil subtext to what they are doing. To compare Merkel to Hitler, which is basically what you just did, is beyond absurd. Hitler wanted everyone out of all of Europe except what he considered to be pure Aryans. Merkel is no dictator and can be removed from office through democratic processes at any time, which is more than I can say about the situation in the US, where if the modern Republicans win the presidency they will surely undertake actions against democratic principles in an attempt to keep it forever.

If you have a point worth considering, it may be the pressure that Germany placed on Greece to be more fiscally responsible, even at the cost of Greece entering a local version of a world-class depression. If there is a German national characteristic involved in any of this, it is that they expect from others the same thrift they themselves exercise, which hardly condemns them but may occasionally create humanistic discord.

I'm glad to see you back, absinthe, but did you have to choose this as your re-acquaintance with the board?
Last edited by jbuck919 on Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lennygoran
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by lennygoran » Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:09 pm

absinthe wrote: What a mess.
Wow, any thoughts on how this will impact our trip to Berlin the end of this month? Regards, Len

jbuck919
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by jbuck919 » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:06 pm

lennygoran wrote:
absinthe wrote: What a mess.
Wow, any thoughts on how this will impact our trip to Berlin the end of this month? Regards, Len
Possibly.


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

lennygoran
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by lennygoran » Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:40 am

jbuck919 wrote:
Possibly.
Whew, that's even worse than I imagined-thanks for the alert-I'll cancel our trip immediately! Regards, Len

absinthe
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by absinthe » Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:38 pm

jbuck919 wrote: As for Germany, it was obvious from the beginning that they might be stretching themselves beyond their capacity to absorb people fleeing the danger spots in the Middle East. Nevertheless, I find no evil subtext to what they are doing. To compare Merkel to Hitler, which is basically what you just did, is beyond absurd.
Really? True but she is regarded as The Fuehrer at the moment - not the Hitlerian sort but surely laying the ground for a nationalistic hike.

She calls the shots. When they speak of "Eu leaders" they mean Merkel and a pack of lapdogs (you can count Orbon and Fico at least out of it). Juncker (never a more appropriate name!) is another. She has managed to get almost all the ex-comecon countries in debt principally to Germany aided by the ECB in which Germany has a large stake.

Then, of course, the Euro which was a prelude to fiscal as well as monetary integration. More recently the issue has been tax harmonisation. Again, Germany is dictating the terms.

But I think trouble emerged with the immigration crisis. Having invited any and all refugees from the Middle East in, she opened a flood gate to economic migration - Pakistan and Southern Asia, Africa as well as the Middle East. And now she has to concede that Germany cannot cope with the 1.5 million expected, so she pushes a vote in Brussels to force all EU nations to take a quota of her mess. Notably Hungary protested, so have a few other states, whereupon she threatened these countries with sanctions. She also threatened the UK that anyway had a veto on the scheme. She can't do much with the UK because it's the second largest donor to that bottomless sinkhole. But there it is - she's dictating. Or trying to. And now you read that the German regional administration is evicting people from their homes to house this bunch. It has also employed cleaners for the refugee camps - I mean, these miscreants aren't able to get off their butts to clean up their own refuge? What? Well, it's led to one incident of sexual crime already. But crime is up already. Doctors visiting camps have to go in pairs or threes. It would be naïve to think the Germans haven't noticed.

She hoped to get Turkey to bail her out, came up with a 3 billion Euro bribe. Erdogen quickly saw it for what it was and said "No." So she turns next to Greece with a financial bribe (ironic that) to set up camps there.

The point is, she may not be the new Hitler but she's seen everywhere as the current driver. Oisfetz' comment is pertinent. Nationalism is on the rise. Hotspots are the ex-USSR countries, Sweden, Denmark and us lot in the UK with the OUT bunch. It's also on the rise in Germany and Sweden - PEGIDA is gaining ground daily. So it will only take a nationalist leader to grab power and no doubt this influx will be contained in camps.

Probably best because they aren't interested in integrating. There's plenty of evidence in Germany and Sweden. The story put out about immigrants enriching economies is plain stupid. As shown in Sweden they're a drain. Worse, native Swedes are having welfare they've paid for with their 40% income tax cut to afford everything free for immigrants and their families. Native Swedes won't put up with it forever.
Hitler wanted everyone out of all of Europe except what he considered to be pure Aryans.
Not really, he wanted the Aryans to rule the conquered countries.
Merkel is no dictator and can be removed from office through democratic processes at any time,
And it won't be long looking at the opposition she's running up.
If you have a point worth considering, it may be the pressure that Germany placed on Greece to be more fiscally responsible, even at the cost of Greece entering a local version of a world-class depression. If there is a German national characteristic involved in any of this, it is that they expect from others the same thrift they themselves exercise, which hardly condemns them but may occasionally create humanistic discord.
Exactly my point - Germany expects... It was important to get Greece into the EU. The accounts were bent a la Goldman. I do not believe a nation as thrifty as Germany didn't do due diligence. It knew. It also knew it could lend Greeks a large amount of money if it joined the Euro - to serve its own interest - exports. It lent many EZ nations money surely in the knowledge that it called the tune. And now...it's telling Greece what it must privatise, what it must do with tax, what its banks must do...or else. Greece has no sovereignty of any use. If it elected a leader Germany doesn't like it just turns off the money tap. Look at the furore over Tsipras (before he sold out).

But like it or not, excluding the lapdog countries - France, Sweden and Spain (I don't know about Ireland), people of the EU know what's going on. Read the reader comments in the British newspapers, informed or uninformed, people see it as history repeating itself. The EU is a mess - a flatlined economy, unemployment averaging 10%, a region in danger of Islamification. The EU was set up to enrich everyone, to end poverty and strife. It's done the opposite.

In the words of Walter Cronkite: And that's the way it is...
I'm glad to see you back, absinthe, but did you have to choose this as your re-acquaintance with the board?
Thank you and...not really but while I was here I noticed the topic's absence from the list. It doesn't affect America too much but in case anyone was interested... It's a bit of a hobby horse. If the British choose to stay in the EU they'll have to get used to rule by Berlin....unless the union falls apart, Germany loses its insidious war and Europe is wrecked.

...

absinthe
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by absinthe » Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:45 pm

lennygoran wrote:
absinthe wrote: What a mess.
Wow, any thoughts on how this will impact our trip to Berlin the end of this month? Regards, Len
Probably not but be prepared. Demonstrations/protests are on the up and like it or not, these immigrants are known for small scale crime.

Here's a video from a physician broadcast from the Czech republic working in Munich. This is just the start. Iniquitous that the German press is not allowed to report such matters.

http://therightscoop.com/must-watch-whi ... n-germany/

Totally barbaric.

lennygoran
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by lennygoran » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:43 am

absinthe wrote:
Probably not but be prepared. Demonstrations/protests are on the up and like it or not, these immigrants are known for small scale crime.
Thanks-just yesterday 60 minutes had a segment on those seeking asylum:

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/seeking-asylum/

Regards, Len :(

piston
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by piston » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:09 am

The Le Pens are doing great in French polls. Trump's popularity in the US largely rests on a similar anti-immigration platform. The German group "Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamization of the West" draws large crowds in Dresden. That is the current trend: anti-immigration with very palpable xenophobic elements against Latinos and Muslims in general. How far will this trend go? How many more groups of undesirable "foreigners" will it target? What will happen to all the legal residents belonging to those undesirable groups? This sort of movement has never been very pretty when it comes to implementing anti-immigration policies.

One of the Le Pens gaining ground in southeastern France:
Image
In the eyes of those lovers of perfection, a work is never finished—a word that for them has no sense—but abandoned....(Paul Valéry)

John F
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by John F » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:32 am

lennygoran wrote:
absinthe wrote: What a mess.
Wow, any thoughts on how this will impact our trip to Berlin the end of this month? Regards, Len
So far, I don't believe there have been any protests in Berlin. That city has been hospitable to guest workers and immigrants ever since WWII, even Muslims; a large part of the immigrant population there is Turkish, and the Berliners have made the doner kebab, Turkish fast food, one of the most popular in the city, allong with currywurst. (I don't recommend either of them.)
John Francis

jbuck919
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by jbuck919 » Mon Oct 19, 2015 3:00 pm

John F wrote:
lennygoran wrote:
absinthe wrote: What a mess.
Wow, any thoughts on how this will impact our trip to Berlin the end of this month? Regards, Len
So far, I don't believe there have been any protests in Berlin. That city has been hospitable to guest workers and immigrants ever since WWII, even Muslims; a large part of the immigrant population there is Turkish, and the Berliners have made the doner kebab, Turkish fast food, one of the most popular in the city, allong with currywurst. (I don't recommend either of them.)
Whatever do you mean? Currywurst represents the height of German cuisiine. ;)

The Germans had many problems related to the arrival of the "guest workers," not only from Turkey, although the children and, I suppose, grandchildren of Turkish immigrants now identify themselves entirely as German.

As for Merkel, yes she is feeling the heat because of the difficulties in assimilating the new refugees, but she is not in immediate political danger because there is no one in line at this point who could challenge her successfully. Absinthe may consider that a sign of her having too much power, but it would be fairer to say hat it represents a temporary vacuum at the top of German politics. Surely absinthe would not prefer that some right-wing party which had a real "Führer" should do in Germany what the the National Front has been doing in France. Or would he?
Last edited by jbuck919 on Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

lennygoran
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by lennygoran » Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:09 pm

John F wrote:That city has been hospitable to guest workers and immigrants ever since WWII, even Muslims; a large part of the immigrant population there is Turkish, and the Berliners have made the doner kebab, Turkish fast food, one of the most popular in the city, allong with currywurst. (I don't recommend either of them.)
I heard that the German population is aging and they need workers to do a lot of the tough physical jobs-we do have a weakness for doner kebab-the one at Pasha is usually ordered by us. Regards, Len

jbuck919
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by jbuck919 » Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:22 pm

lennygoran wrote:
John F wrote:That city has been hospitable to guest workers and immigrants ever since WWII, even Muslims; a large part of the immigrant population there is Turkish, and the Berliners have made the doner kebab, Turkish fast food, one of the most popular in the city, allong with currywurst. (I don't recommend either of them.)
I heard that the German population is aging and they need workers to do a lot of the tough physical jobs.
On NPR they interviewed a Syrian refugee who had to give up a career as an accountant to take on a laborer's job. However, the country was not Germany--it was the US. He was a bit frustrated and of course exhausted, but not unhappy. Anything was better for his family than staying in Syria.
We do have a weakness for doner kebab-the one at Pasha is usually ordered by us.
I don't know how they can keep it on the menu if only you and Sue and a maybe a couple of others ever order it. ;)

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

lennygoran
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by lennygoran » Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:27 pm

jbuck919 wrote:
I don't know how they can keep it on the menu if only you and Sue and a maybe a couple of others ever order it. ;)
It's one of their specials-it's delicious-what makes you think only a few people order it? Regards, Len

John F
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by John F » Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:28 pm

The Germans relied on "guest workers" from the end of the war onward - so many had been killed in one world war after another, not least by the Nazis themselves, that there was a severe shortage of labor, especially men. The postwar "economic miracle" was largely built by Gastarbeiter. (And the Marshall Plan.)
John Francis

jbuck919
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by jbuck919 » Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:03 pm

lennygoran wrote:
jbuck919 wrote:
I don't know how they can keep it on the menu if only you and Sue and a maybe a couple of others ever order it. ;)
It's one of their specials-it's delicious-what makes you think only a few people order it? Regards, Len
I was kidding you on your use of the passive voice, which makes it sound as if the demand for the doner kebab was limited mainly to you and Sue. instead of what you meant, which is "We usually order doner kebab." ;)

I have to admit that even though there were carts selling it on every corner, I never ate doner kebab in my two years in Germany. Or Currywurst, which is a Berlin specialty. Again, I was kidding about the generally undistinguished status of German cuisine, which I am sorry to say is not much of a myth. Their Bratwurst on a roll is another classic, but is something like nine inches of (admittedly delicious) sausage sticking three inches out of either end of a three-inch roll. Those who need a little more starch with their meat need not apply. However, an American is always the pot calling the kettle black in these matters. At least they enjoyed a hearty breakfast rather than a demitasse and a croissant.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

lennygoran
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by lennygoran » Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:01 am

jbuck919 wrote: instead of what you meant, which is "We usually order doner kebab." ;)...I never ate doner kebab in my two years in Germany. Or Currywurst, which is a Berlin specialty. Again, I was kidding about the generally undistinguished status of German cuisine, which I am sorry to say is not much of a myth.


The dish we usually order is this:
Yogurtlu Kebab
21.50 Slices of grilled lamb, served on a bed of homemade pita and yogurt, and topped with tomato sauce.
http://pashanewyork.com/wordpress/?page_id=47

Many years ago on a trip that included Munich we ate at 2 three-star michelins-seems to me most big cities like London and NYC will offer loads of good food from every kind of cuisine--I guess Berlin is like that too?

http://www.frommers.com/destinations/berlin/restaurants

Finally I have to admit I never even heard of currywurst---I'll look for this one! :) Regards, Len

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currywurst

Agnes Selby
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by Agnes Selby » Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:57 pm

It is a very frightening situation. A 15 year old Muslim boy shot a police accountant as he was leaving
the police station after work two weeks ago.
A number of people were shot in a city coffee shop. Threats are received daily at Catholic and
Jewish schools and street preachers indoctrinate 12 year olds. And this is Australia today.

jbuck919
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by jbuck919 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:37 pm

lennygoran wrote:Many years ago on a trip that included Munich we ate at 2 three-star michelins-seems to me most big cities like London and NYC will offer loads of good food from every kind of cuisine--I guess Berlin is like that too?
I'm sure you'll eat well enough in one of the four great cities of the West, but Berlin has not been Londonized in terms of fine dining. Just as well, perhaps, because the prices are probably more reasonable for a decent meal.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

jbuck919
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by jbuck919 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 6:39 pm

Agnes Selby wrote:It is a very frightening situation. A 15 year old Muslim boy shot a police accountant as he was leaving
the police station after work two weeks ago.
A number of people were shot in a city coffee shop. Threats are received daily at Catholic and
Jewish schools and street preachers indoctrinate 12 year olds. And this is Australia today.
Yes Agnes, very frightening.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

John F
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by John F » Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:52 am

jbuck919 wrote:
lennygoran wrote:Many years ago on a trip that included Munich we ate at 2 three-star michelins-seems to me most big cities like London and NYC will offer loads of good food from every kind of cuisine--I guess Berlin is like that too?
I'm sure you'll eat well enough in one of the four great cities of the West, but Berlin has not been Londonized in terms of fine dining. Just as well, perhaps, because the prices are probably more reasonable for a decent meal.
English and German cooking had a bad reputation in the past and it was well deserved. But the standard in both countries has risen beyond all recognition, not just in fine dining and foreign cuisines but in the domestic specialties too. It would be a shame to go to Berlin and eat Italian or Chinese. Instead go to restaurants like the ones I listed for you some time ago, for the schnitzel (not just Wiener), goulasch, sauerbraten, etc., or some of the great sausages you don't get over here. You won't be sorry.
John Francis

lennygoran
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by lennygoran » Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:13 am

jbuck919 wrote: Just as well, perhaps, because the prices are probably more reasonable for a decent meal.
Well that at least is a plus-last time we were in London the food was superb but it sure hurt when I reached for the bill. Regards, Len :)

lennygoran
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by lennygoran » Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:15 am

John F wrote:Instead go to restaurants like the ones I listed for you some time ago, for the schnitzel (not just Wiener), goulasch, sauerbraten, etc., or some of the great sausages you don't get over here. You won't be sorry.
Yes I have that list! Regards, Len

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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by lennygoran » Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:59 am

jbuck919 wrote: Or Currywurst,
I've been mulling over your message and wonder if we should visit this place while in Berlin? Regards, Len :lol:

http://www.berlin-welcomecard.de/en/par ... eum-berlin

John F
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by John F » Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:05 am

Berlin is a city of museums, isn't it? :D But you've better uses for your time.
John Francis

lennygoran
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by lennygoran » Sun Oct 25, 2015 11:08 am

John F wrote: But you've better uses for your time.
Agreed, agreed! As I read more I'm starting to see 4 days in Berlin won't be enough--well at least it's a start. Regards, Len :)

John F
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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by John F » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:27 pm

One of the most astonishing exhibits in Berlin's museums is the Pergamon, the entrance to a big temple taken apart and reassembled in a building specially built for it. On the Museum Island near other museums you'll probably visit.
John Francis

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Re: Germany is at it again.

Post by lennygoran » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:51 pm

[quote="John F"]One of the most astonishing exhibits in Berlin's museums is the Pergamon, the entrance to a big temple taken apart and reassembled in a building specially built for it. On the Museum Island near other museums you'll probably visit





Yes we`ll definitely be there-lovely day in berlin today-finished with 3 kinds of sausage at a nice place near our hotel! Len

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