Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

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rwetmore
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Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by rwetmore » Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:58 pm

Oh boy, this is a hard hitting piece.

Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth – the Muslim World Is Overcome with Hate

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... extremists
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

rwetmore
Posts: 3042
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 7:24 pm

Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by rwetmore » Tue Dec 08, 2015 6:01 pm

But so many don't want to face the apparent reality. I can't entirely blame them, BTW. It's highly disconcerting.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

John F
Posts: 21076
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:41 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by John F » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:05 am

Just what is your agenda, rwetmore? Are you deliberately trying to foment anti-Muslim fear and hatred in America? Because that's the effect of your recent posts. You don't care if your source is an outright fraud, as with the Center for Security Policy "poll," or if the source is reputable but doesn't mean what you claim it does, as with the PEW polls, or if it's a strident editorial in a right-wing magazine - it's all grist for your mill. The common thread is anti-Muslim bigotry.

David French's editorial is a masterpiece of "creative" misuse of data. To take just one example: surrounding a chart showing that in 11 countries with substantial Muslim populations, the "views of ISIS [are] overwhelmingly negative" (his own caption), French looks past this and says nonetheless, "extrapolating from the populations of polled countries alone" (the basis of such extrapolation is not given) "shows that roughly 50 million people express sympathy for a terrorist army that burns prisoners alive, throws gay men from buildings, and beheads political opponents." And, by the way, is fighting the even more murderous and unpopular regime of Syrian president Bashar al-Assad. French implies that those people favor the appalling actions he names, for which there's no support in the statistics he quotes, without mentioning other factors which are much more likely. The Pakistani statistics show 9% with a favorable view of ISIS and 62% under "Don't know." French's comment: "In Pakistan a horrifying 72 percent [sic] couldn’t bring themselves to express an unfavorable view of ISIS." The publisher I used to work for had a great little book, "How to Lie With Statistics," and French has mastered that art.

Anti-Muslim prejudice based on religion, ethnicity, country of ancestry, or anything else is just as hateful as antisemitim. Both are based on purely irrational prejudice, however much the haters try to justify themselves with seemingly plausible data and arguments - and this was very common in the U.S. before the Holocaust made it shameful. The intended effect was and is to turn public opinion against millions of our fellow citizens, not because of anything they have done, but because of false notions of what they stand for and allegedly might do. The difference is that American antisemitism today is the province of lunatic fringe groups we all reject, while American anti-Muslimism is spouted by serious candidates for the presidency of the United States. And it's being spread here by rwetmore.

Stop using Classical Music Guide's Corner Pub as a platform from which to spread anti-Muslim propaganda. If you don't stop it, I'll ask Lance to consider throwing you out.
John Francis

rwetmore
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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by rwetmore » Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:55 am

John F wrote:Just what is your agenda, rwetmore? Are you deliberately trying to foment anti-Muslim fear and hatred in America? Because that's the effect of your recent posts. You don't care if your source is an outright fraud, as with the Center for Security Policy "poll," or if the source is reputable but doesn't mean what you claim it does, as with the PEW polls, or if it's a strident editorial in a right-wing magazine - it's all grist for your mill. The common thread is anti-Muslim bigotry.

David French's editorial is a masterpiece of "creative" misuse of data. To take just one example: surrounding a chart showing that in 11 countries with substantial Muslim populations, the "views of ISIS [are] overwhelmingly negative" (his own caption), French looks past this and says nonetheless, "extrapolating from the populations of polled countries alone" (the basis of such extrapolation is not given) "shows that roughly 50 million people express sympathy for a terrorist army that burns prisoners alive, throws gay men from buildings, and beheads political opponents." And, by the way, is fighting the even more murderous and unpopular regime of Syrian president Bashar al-Assad. French implies that those people favor the appalling actions he names, for which there's no support in the statistics he quotes, without mentioning other factors which are much more likely. The Pakistani statistics show 9% with a favorable view of ISIS and 62% under "Don't know." French's comment: "In Pakistan a horrifying 72 percent [sic] couldn’t bring themselves to express an unfavorable view of ISIS." The publisher I used to work for had a great little book, "How to Lie With Statistics," and French has mastered that art.

Anti-Muslim prejudice based on religion, ethnicity, country of ancestry, or anything else is just as hateful as antisemitim. Both are based on purely irrational prejudice, however much the haters try to justify themselves with seemingly plausible data and arguments - and this was very common in the U.S. before the Holocaust made it shameful. The intended effect was and is to turn public opinion against millions of our fellow citizens, not because of anything they have done, but because of false notions of what they stand for and allegedly might do. The difference is that American antisemitism today is the province of lunatic fringe groups we all reject, while American anti-Muslimism is spouted by serious candidates for the presidency of the United States. And it's being spread here by rwetmore.

Stop using Classical Music Guide's Corner Pub as a platform from which to spread anti-Muslim propaganda. If you don't stop it, I'll ask Lance to consider throwing you out.
This is truly a bizarre response, and this entire mentality you apparently have towards this whole issue genuinely has me perplexed. As I said, I'm a realist. I don't run from uncomfortable apparent truths, nor do I need use political figures I'm against as some sort of means to hyper validate my world view. That's what seems to be going on here with this issue and Trump.

No, of course I'm not trying to foment anti-Muslim fear and hatred. Neither is Trump, BTW. This is not an anti-Muslim crusade -- it's an anti-radical Islam crusade. You see, I actually listen to the whole of what Trump says from his own mouth at rallies and when he's interviewed on TV. I watch the entirety of it. It seems few, including you, actually do this. Where has he excoriated all or most Muslims as radical and a threat? Where has he said or implied that this is a crusade against all Muslims? Nowhere. Most what you're reading is made up, inferred from the authors -- not something Trump actually said or implied.

I am not anti-Muslim, and I actually felt very sorry for American Muslims after 9/11 because of the way many would naturally be perceived by many. But at the same time, we have a real problem with radical Islam that I'm not willing to put my head in the sand and pretend doesn't exist in any significant way among the Muslim population, even here in the US.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

karlhenning
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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by karlhenning » Wed Dec 09, 2015 1:10 pm

Not that facts will matter any more to Randall than they do to his idol:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update ... no-victims

Cheers,
~k.
Karl Henning, PhD
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston, Massachusetts
http://members.tripod.com/~Karl_P_Henning/
http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/
Published by Lux Nova Press
http://www.luxnova.com/

John F
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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by John F » Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:20 am

rwetmore wrote:
John F wrote:Just what is your agenda, rwetmore? Are you deliberately trying to foment anti-Muslim fear and hatred in America? Because that's the effect of your recent posts. You don't care if your source is an outright fraud, as with the Center for Security Policy "poll," or if the source is reputable but doesn't mean what you claim it does, as with the PEW polls, or if it's a strident editorial in a right-wing magazine - it's all grist for your mill. The common thread is anti-Muslim bigotry.

David French's editorial is a masterpiece of "creative" misuse of data. To take just one example: surrounding a chart showing that in 11 countries with substantial Muslim populations, the "views of ISIS [are] overwhelmingly negative" (his own caption), French looks past this and says nonetheless, "extrapolating from the populations of polled countries alone" (the basis of such extrapolation is not given) "shows that roughly 50 million people express sympathy for a terrorist army that burns prisoners alive, throws gay men from buildings, and beheads political opponents." And, by the way, is fighting the even more murderous and unpopular regime of Syrian president Bashar al-Assad. French implies that those people favor the appalling actions he names, for which there's no support in the statistics he quotes, without mentioning other factors which are much more likely. The Pakistani statistics show 9% with a favorable view of ISIS and 62% under "Don't know." French's comment: "In Pakistan a horrifying 72 percent [sic] couldn’t bring themselves to express an unfavorable view of ISIS." The publisher I used to work for had a great little book, "How to Lie With Statistics," and French has mastered that art.

Anti-Muslim prejudice based on religion, ethnicity, country of ancestry, or anything else is just as hateful as antisemitim. Both are based on purely irrational prejudice, however much the haters try to justify themselves with seemingly plausible data and arguments - and this was very common in the U.S. before the Holocaust made it shameful. The intended effect was and is to turn public opinion against millions of our fellow citizens, not because of anything they have done, but because of false notions of what they stand for and allegedly might do. The difference is that American antisemitism today is the province of lunatic fringe groups we all reject, while American anti-Muslimism is spouted by serious candidates for the presidency of the United States. And it's being spread here by rwetmore.

Stop using Classical Music Guide's Corner Pub as a platform from which to spread anti-Muslim propaganda. If you don't stop it, I'll ask Lance to consider throwing you out.
This is truly a bizarre response, and this entire mentality you apparently have towards this whole issue genuinely has me perplexed. As I said, I'm a realist. I don't run from uncomfortable apparent truths, nor do I need use political figures I'm against as some sort of means to hyper validate my world view. That's what seems to be going on here with this issue and Trump.

No, of course I'm not trying to foment anti-Muslim fear and hatred. Neither is Trump, BTW. This is not an anti-Muslim crusade -- it's an anti-radical Islam crusade. You see, I actually listen to the whole of what Trump says from his own mouth at rallies and when he's interviewed on TV. I watch the entirety of it. It seems few, including you, actually do this. Where has he excoriated all or most Muslims as radical and a threat? Where has he said or implied that this is a crusade against all Muslims? Nowhere. Most what you're reading is made up, inferred from the authors -- not something Trump actually said or implied.

I am not anti-Muslim, and I actually felt very sorry for American Muslims after 9/11 because of the way many would naturally be perceived by many. But at the same time, we have a real problem with radical Islam that I'm not willing to put my head in the sand and pretend doesn't exist in any significant way among the Muslim population, even here in the US.
No further discussion. You have been warned.
John Francis

rwetmore
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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by rwetmore » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:16 pm

John F wrote:No further discussion. You have been warned.
So now you're threatening to request me being thrown out over this? It's only your opinion that it is purely anti-Muslim propaganda. I don't think it is; moreover, I could argue it's effectively propaganda to deny or supress such evidence and be held to different standard, and request you be thrown out for unjustifiably threating to have me thrown out. But of course I won't and wouldn't do that. This is ridiculous. If the evidence is truly on your side that it is *false* anti-Muslim propaganda as you claim, then make your case for that via citing evidence and logic that says otherwise. At which point, all the posters can decide for themselves what and who they think is credible or not. If the evidence is on your side, you should not need to have me censored. In fact, you should not even need to be thinking it. Either everyone here is -- or at least *should* be -- held to the same standard or they are not. Either this is neutral board where varying points of view are allowed, provided the rules of use and conduct are followed, or it's not.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

arepo
Posts: 433
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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by arepo » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:09 am

"No, of course I'm not trying to foment anti-Muslim fear and hatred. Neither is Trump, BTW. This is not an anti-Muslim crusade -- it's an anti-radical Islam crusade. You see, I actually listen to the whole of what Trump says from his own mouth at rallies and when he's interviewed on TV. I watch the entirety of it. It seems few, including you, actually do this. Where has he excoriated all or most Muslims as radical and a threat? Where has he said or implied that this is a crusade against all Muslims? Nowhere. Most what you're reading is made up, inferred from the authors -- not something Trump actually said or implied."

Almost everything you post reeks of right-wing drivel, fraught with quotes from the likes of Breitbart, Limbaugh, Commentary, Dick Morris, Center for Security Policy and the New York Post. Add your preposterous stance on the subject of Global Warming and your biases are indisputable.

Your attempt to present your comments as objective is nonsense. It's fine to see things as you do but it would be refreshing for you to fess up to who you really are.

Have a fine day.


cliftwood

rwetmore
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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by rwetmore » Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:49 pm

arepo wrote:"No, of course I'm not trying to foment anti-Muslim fear and hatred. Neither is Trump, BTW. This is not an anti-Muslim crusade -- it's an anti-radical Islam crusade. You see, I actually listen to the whole of what Trump says from his own mouth at rallies and when he's interviewed on TV. I watch the entirety of it. It seems few, including you, actually do this. Where has he excoriated all or most Muslims as radical and a threat? Where has he said or implied that this is a crusade against all Muslims? Nowhere. Most what you're reading is made up, inferred from the authors -- not something Trump actually said or implied."

Almost everything you post reeks of right-wing drivel, fraught with quotes from the likes of Breitbart, Limbaugh, Commentary, Dick Morris, Center for Security Policy and the New York Post. Add your preposterous stance on the subject of Global Warming and your biases are indisputable.

Your attempt to present your comments as objective is nonsense. It's fine to see things as you do but it would be refreshing for you to fess up to who you really are.

Have a fine day.


cliftwood
I never claimed to be objective or neutral -- only reasoned. I'm supporting Trump somewhat reluctantly. He's not my ideal candidate, and frankly I think it's somewhat ridiculous that many of us are basically forced to support him -- things have just gotten that bad. Even he thinks it's ridiculous that he needs to be running and that he really shouldn't have to be. If he wins the nomination, I will most likely vote for him, though I wouldn't go so far as to say there is nothing he could say or do that would cause me not to. I also think as President, he would mellow out quite a bit and be more measured and less outlandish.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

rwetmore
Posts: 3042
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 7:24 pm

Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by rwetmore » Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:54 pm

arepo wrote:Add your preposterous stance on the subject of Global Warming and your biases are indisputable.
And what do you know about Global Warming? Enlighten us with your knowledge on the subject.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

Ricordanza
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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by Ricordanza » Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:33 am

rwetmore wrote:No, of course I'm not trying to foment anti-Muslim fear and hatred. Neither is Trump, BTW. This is not an anti-Muslim crusade -- it's an anti-radical Islam crusade. You see, I actually listen to the whole of what Trump says from his own mouth at rallies and when he's interviewed on TV. I watch the entirety of it. It seems few, including you, actually do this. Where has he excoriated all or most Muslims as radical and a threat? Where has he said or implied that this is a crusade against all Muslims? Nowhere. Most what you're reading is made up, inferred from the authors -- not something Trump actually said or implied.
Just listen to Trump for the answers to your rhetorical questions. He did not call for a ban on admitting "radical Muslims" to this country. He did not call for a ban on admitting Muslims with ties to terrorist organizations from entering this country. He called for a ban on admitting ALL Muslims to this country.

So either your hearing is selective, or you agree with Trump but are not as forthright as he is in displaying anti-Muslim prejudice.

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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by Chalkperson » Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:05 pm

rwetmore wrote:
John F wrote:No further discussion. You have been warned.
So now you're threatening to request me being thrown out over this? It's only your opinion that it is purely anti-Muslim propaganda. I don't think it is; moreover, I could argue it's effectively propaganda to deny or supress such evidence and be held to different standard, and request you be thrown out for unjustifiably threating to have me thrown out. But of course I won't and wouldn't do that. This is ridiculous. If the evidence is truly on your side that it is *false* anti-Muslim propaganda as you claim, then make your case for that via citing evidence and logic that says otherwise. At which point, all the posters can decide for themselves what and who they think is credible or not. If the evidence is on your side, you should not need to have me censored. In fact, you should not even need to be thinking it. Either everyone here is -- or at least *should* be -- held to the same standard or they are not. Either this is neutral board where varying points of view are allowed, provided the rules of use and conduct are followed, or it's not.
It is my opinion also, you are an embarrassment to this Board.

You are causing trouble, your anti muslim posts are upsetting the members, and for that you can be removed.

Said as the Moderator.

Please check you messages.


Sent via Twitter by @chalkperson

rwetmore
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Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 7:24 pm

Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by rwetmore » Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:25 pm

Ricordanza wrote:Just listen to Trump for the answers to your rhetorical questions. He did not call for a ban on admitting "radical Muslims" to this country. He did not call for a ban on admitting Muslims with ties to terrorist organizations from entering this country. He called for a ban on admitting ALL Muslims to this country.
You can't be serious here. If we already had devised and were implementing a reliable way to ban only 'radical Muslims' from entering of course there would be no need for a temporary ban admitting all Muslims (or people from countries that are predominantly Muslim). The point is we don't yet have a clear and reliable way to filter them out from the non-radical Muslims. Many top officials in this country and abroad have said current screening processes are not sufficient to filter out the Jihadists, who they say are nearly impossible to spot.

Now it may very well be that Jihadists are not trying to get in via legal channels and are instead coming in through illegal channels, because it's easier to do with our unsecured borders. All the more reason we need to secure the borders as well.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

Chalkperson
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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by Chalkperson » Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:30 pm

rwetmore wrote:
Ricordanza wrote:Just listen to Trump for the answers to your rhetorical questions. He did not call for a ban on admitting "radical Muslims" to this country. He did not call for a ban on admitting Muslims with ties to terrorist organizations from entering this country. He called for a ban on admitting ALL Muslims to this country.
You can't be serious here. If we already had devised and were implementing a reliable way to ban only 'radical Muslims' from entering of course there would be no need for a temporary ban admitting all Muslims (or people from countries that are predominantly Muslim). The point is we don't yet have a clear and reliable way to filter them out from the non-radical Muslims. Many top officials in this country and abroad have said current screening processes are not sufficient to filter out the Jihadists, who they say are nearly impossible to spot.

Now it may very well be that Jihadists are not trying to get in via legal channels and are instead coming in through illegal channels, because it's easier to do with our unsecured borders. All the more reason we need to secure the borders as well.
It's against US Law to ban an entire religion. That is a fact.
Sent via Twitter by @chalkperson

rwetmore
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Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 7:24 pm

Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by rwetmore » Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:42 pm

rwetmore wrote:So now you're threatening to request me being thrown out over this? It's only your opinion that it is purely anti-Muslim propaganda. I don't think it is; moreover, I could argue it's effectively propaganda to deny or supress such evidence and be held to different standard, and request you be thrown out for unjustifiably threating to have me thrown out. But of course I won't and wouldn't do that. This is ridiculous. If the evidence is truly on your side that it is *false* anti-Muslim propaganda as you claim, then make your case for that via citing evidence and logic that says otherwise. At which point, all the posters can decide for themselves what and who they think is credible or not. If the evidence is on your side, you should not need to have me censored. In fact, you should not even need to be thinking it. Either everyone here is -- or at least *should* be -- held to the same standard or they are not. Either this is neutral board where varying points of view are allowed, provided the rules of use and conduct are followed, or it's not.
Chalkperson wrote:It is my opinion also, you are an embarrassment to this Board.

You are causing trouble, your anti muslim posts are upsetting the members, and for that you can be removed.

Said as the Moderator.

Please check you messages.


If you want to ban me because you disagree with my point of view and don't want that view expressed here then just do it already. It is my strong opinion that I am not anti-Muslim -- nor am I (or have I) posted anti-Muslim propaganda, and frankly even if I were anti-Muslim (as some posters have expressed), it's not a fair justification to ban anyone provided they are being civil and not violating the rules of use. I have shown on more than one occasion that when the request is reasonable and fair, I have complied.

But don't pretend to yourself and to everyone else here that you aren't doing it specifically because you disagree and/or don't like my expressed point of view. It is simply John F's opinion that some of what I've posted is anti-Muslim, and he is free to express that opinion. However so should I, otherwise this board is a farce; merely a pretext for only allowing a certain point of view to be expressed. The bottom line is if your political views were not so opposed to mine, I would never even be considered by you as someone who should be restricted or banned. If you want to convince yourself otherwise, so be it, but believe me everyone knows what's really going on.
Last edited by rwetmore on Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

rwetmore
Posts: 3042
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 7:24 pm

Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by rwetmore » Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:44 pm

Chalkperson wrote:It's against US Law to ban an entire religion. That is a fact.
Actually, it's not -- at least for foreign nationals trying to come into the country. It may not be good policy, but it's perfectly legal. Of course, inside the US, it's illegal to ban an entire religion (and absolutely should be). I am as big a believer in religious freedom as anyone.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

rwetmore
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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by rwetmore » Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:55 pm

I would also suggest that if someone cannot take heated, but civil discussion here then they shouldn't be participating here. I can take any and all the heat that comes my way, and never complain about anyone, despite several people's behavior being out of line quite often, BTW. I never utter peep, because it's not my style; moreover, I'm utterly against censorship of any kind -- especially political viewpoint censorship.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

rwetmore
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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by rwetmore » Sat Dec 12, 2015 1:46 pm

You know what? I've given this some thought, and maybe I've over done it with the number of new threads started in the last few months. I pledge to significantly back off the number of new threads I start going forward. Is that reasonable? I think so.
"Most human beings have an almost infinite capacity for taking things for granted. That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history."
- Aldous Huxley

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing has happened."
-Winston Churchill

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one!”
–Charles Mackay

"It doesn't matter how smart you are - if you don't stop and think."
-Thomas Sowell

"It's one of the functions of the mainstream news media to fact-check political speech and where there are lies, to reveal them to the voters."
-John F. (of CMG)

Chalkperson
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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by Chalkperson » Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:09 pm

rwetmore wrote:You know what? I've given this some thought, and maybe I've over done it with the number of new threads started in the last few months. I pledge to significantly back off the number of new threads I start going forward. Is that reasonable? I think so.
That's acceptable, and what I have asked you to do at least twice over the last eight weeks.

Self restraint is the key to this, be cool and all all be well.

i'm going to start a Thread just for you, its called "All Things Trump by rwetmore"
Sent via Twitter by @chalkperson

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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by jbuck919 » Sun Dec 13, 2015 1:08 am

Chalkperson wrote:
rwetmore wrote:You know what? I've given this some thought, and maybe I've over done it with the number of new threads started in the last few months. I pledge to significantly back off the number of new threads I start going forward. Is that reasonable? I think so.
That's acceptable, and what I have asked you to do at least twice over the last eight weeks.

Self restraint is the key to this, be cool and all all be well.

i'm going to start a Thread just for you, its called "All Things Trump by rwetmore"
Time for one of my famous interruptions. (We are after all a music board.) Note the astonishing perfect English singing pronunciation.


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by John F » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:42 am

If there's any corner pub in the world where one can hear that kind of music today, it would be the place for me. The closest to it I've ever seen in a juke box (remember them?) were some Boston Pops records of light music by Leroy Anderson and "Jalousie" by Jacob Gade, which were best-selling hits. And that was back in the '40s and '50s.
John Francis

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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by karlhenning » Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:28 am

I'd steer clear of any pub where they sing Rutter ; )

Cheers,
~k.
Karl Henning, PhD
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston, Massachusetts
http://members.tripod.com/~Karl_P_Henning/
http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/
Published by Lux Nova Press
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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by John F » Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:46 am

Consider the alternatives... :mrgreen:
John Francis

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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by jbuck919 » Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:59 am

Karl's dislike of the almost unavoidable (to a church musician) Rutter is well known. To me after years of compromise as a church musician, he is at the high end of quasi-classical, meaning that his music is carefully composed and not lacking in an element of artistry.

Perhaps the most interesting facts about Rutter are personal. He is a self-admitted atheist who specializes in "sacred" music, which only makes him more openly honest than many others who are the same. More significantly in humanistic terms, he lost his own son to a freak accident when he was run over on the street after leaving a choir rehearsal under his father's direction. No one ever completely recovers from such a loss, but when I heard Rutter speak of this, my first thought was the architect of the National Cathedral, Philip Frohman, who died in a similar accident outside his great creation. Anyone who knows the minor street outside that grand church knows how utterly unlikely it is for anyone to be run over crossing it.

There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by karlhenning » Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:43 am

jbuck919 wrote:Karl's dislike of the almost unavoidable (to a church musician) Rutter is well known. To me after years of compromise as a church musician, he is at the high end of quasi-classical, meaning that his music is carefully composed and not lacking in an element of artistry.
That's fair. My dislike is a mix . . . in various choirs over the years, I have sung a number of his octavos which, God help me, I hope never to be forced to sing again ; ) When he is at his best, the work is good and perfectly satisfactory—if only he were at his best more often!

The news in Rutter's favor is, that between September and the year's end, I have directed my church choir in three (count 'em, three) Rutter octavos. I was leafing through the file cabinets, and (to my credit, I think) when I saw that there was a Rutter piece, I did not simply shudder, and shuffle on, but I took a look—and came away thinking, this is respectable (and, in one case, a fair amount of fun) and I can have the choir do this with no artistic compromise. So: there it is. The latest of these was The Angels' Carol, which was part of our Christmas concert this Sunday past.

Cheers,
~k.
Karl Henning, PhD
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston, Massachusetts
http://members.tripod.com/~Karl_P_Henning/
http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/
Published by Lux Nova Press
http://www.luxnova.com/

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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by karlhenning » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:15 am

John F wrote:Consider the alternatives... :mrgreen:
Oh, he's no Natalie Sleeth or Pepper Choplin, that is for certain! ; )

Cheers,
~k.
Karl Henning, PhD
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston, Massachusetts
http://members.tripod.com/~Karl_P_Henning/
http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/
Published by Lux Nova Press
http://www.luxnova.com/

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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by jbuck919 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:31 am

Well, I couldn't avoid Natalie Sleeth, but Pepper Choplin is a name I've never heard. There are a lot of others, as you know, Karl, such as John Ness Beck. Fifteen years ago I could have supplied a list as long as my arm, but memory thankfully fails me now in the details. I have never been so content in my life as I am simply going down the list of secondary Baroque composers I can use on my little organ without having to worry about a choir at all.

That church in Maryland, which offered me a very satisfactory range for artistic expression as both an organist and a singer in their fine volunteer choir, was already threatening to go contemporary at the time I left for health reasons. Now they have a so-called blended service, which would have been finis for any possibility of my willing participation.


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by jbuck919 » Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:13 am

Here is another Rutter piece inspired by a well-known hymn to a completely different tune. There is a hemiola at the end that is far more difficult for a chorus to master than it seems in this performance where they do so. There is nothing to be done about the fact that adolescent boys sound as such while the girls could grace a mature choir. For some reason that I do not understand, adolescents also rarely master a mature sound on the clarinet, as I'm sure both Karl and Mark Simon (diegobueno) would acknowledge.


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by karlhenning » Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:02 pm

jbuck919 wrote:Here is another Rutter piece inspired by a well-known hymn to a completely different tune. There is a hemiola at the end that is far more difficult for a chorus to master than it seems in this performance where they do so. There is nothing to be done about the fact that adolescent boys sound as such while the girls could grace a mature choir. For some reason that I do not understand, adolescents also rarely master a mature sound on the clarinet, as I'm sure both Karl and Mark Simon (diegobueno) would acknowledge.

That's another of the three we sang this fall! That is a curiously tricky rhythm he chucks in there.

Cheers,
~k.
Karl Henning, PhD
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston, Massachusetts
http://members.tripod.com/~Karl_P_Henning/
http://henningmusick.blogspot.com/
Published by Lux Nova Press
http://www.luxnova.com/

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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by jbuck919 » Sun Dec 20, 2015 5:05 am

Following up, after years of doing this activity I finally wrote a lightning-round category for Academic Bowl about musical instruments. Do you all care to know what two questions neither team could answer when they got everything else remarkably correct? They did not know that an orchestral concertmaster plays the violin, or that the usual instrument of a band concertmaster is the clarinet. I deliberately phrased the latter question to take into account the fact that some high school band teachers award that honor to a player of another instrument, but clarinet is standard among mature wind bands.


There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.
-- Johann Sebastian Bach

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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by John F » Sun Dec 20, 2015 4:19 pm

I didn't know that the usual instrument of a band concertmaster is the clarinet.
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Re: Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth....

Post by absinthe » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:56 am

rwetmore wrote:Oh boy, this is a hard hitting piece.

Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth – the Muslim World Is Overcome with Hate

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... extremists
It doesn't take an encyclopaedic knowledge of the founding of Islamism to appreciate what's what, given its aims.

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